PSA - Europeans do wear shorts

I agree and thank you, Emily. The first time I went to Europe, I was concerned because my husband wears shorts pretty much May thru September (in MN). My friend who has spent significant time in France said, "they are going to know you are a tourist no matter what you do. He will look more ridiculous in pants all sweaty AND miserable." He switched to pants in the evening when the situation required it and I got him a pair of lightweight pants with zip off legs for days in which churches might be an issue. For me, dresses and skirts were the answer.

Thanks Emily! I agree.

My question for you - how long have shorts been typical/accepted in your experience? As a tourist it seems like a lot has changed even in the past 8 years. I say 8 years because I remember my first trip after a multi-year break from travel was 8 years ago and shorts seemed uncommon. France and London, late August/early September if it matters. More recently I’ve seen more shorts but I haven’t been back to the exact same places in shorts weather.

The old fashioned no shorts advice had to come from somewhere, it was true in the past, right? I was in Greece as a teen in the 90s and all the American study abroad students like me were told we were unfashionable in shorts by the local students and made to buy long pants in order to go out!

My opinion: There are shorts, and then there are shorts. Shorts that show the knee are fine everywhere except church and fancy restaurants. (They are also smart: jeans or sweats in the summer are too hot and heavy.) However, shorts that are so short that they show bits of one's derriere should be left at home or reserved for the beach. Women can always skirt the situation, of course, with a skirt.

I believe the issue was location. The Germans and Brits have worn shorts since the beginning of time. In resort areas, shorts were ubiquitous, rather shorter than our "board" shorts, and no one thought anything about it.

Over time, however, those shorts encroached into real life, and fast forwarding a few decades, as sartorial standards became lax, shorts were worn into and around every conceivable activity. It is bad form to wear shorts into a house of worship; sorry, but it is. Same with muscle shirts, same with flip flops. I am sure some with disagree with this, but respect starts with deferring to the local standards of dress and conduct.

I have worn shorts across Europe, but have been judicious about where I was wearing them. I think a good rule of thumb is to ask, is this an appropriate way to dress for this event/place? No hats in church, either.

Mira - I’ve lived here for 12 years and shorts have always been ok.

Monty - I hate to tell you this, but short shorts are very fashionable all over Europe. Europeans are very comfortable with their bodies and do not subscribe to the same modesty that most N. American women do - thank goodness!

Wbfey1 - Showing respect in places of worship and everyday wear are two different things. I would guess that most Europeans don’t set foot in a church for months at a time. I know I don’t.

And, please, note that kids can wear whatever is cool and comfortable. No one will kick a child out of a church. Trust me.

"No hats in church, either."

That applies only to men. Orthodox churches require that women wear a head covering.

Mira - I agree that things have changed a lot in 10 years. I never would have worn shorts in Europe back then, but now everyone wears them. Even 5 years ago in countries like Spain, other than the beach areas, nobody wore shorts. When I lived in Spain in the late 70s, nobody wore shorts anyplace. I’m not in full agreement with the OP’s comments, since when and where shorts are appropriate varies from country to country, and even regions within a country. I will agree that they are acceptable attire in most places and one won’t get a weird glance when wearing them. Not certain about Emily’s jeans comment because all age groups wear them.

Men shouldn't wear hats indoors anywhere, churches or not.

Jamie - of course Europeans wear jeans! Heck, I wear jeans to work every day as do my colleagues. Europeans would definitely think a tourist would be silly for wearing jeans when on vacation in the summer - especially if the only reason for wearing shorts was because of some imaginary “no shorts” rule from 1989. When Europeans go on vacation in the summer what do you think they wear? Shorts!

Lederhosen (/ˈleɪdərˌhoʊzən/; German pronunciation: [ˈleːdɐˌhoːzn̩], lit. "leather breeches"; singular in German usage: Lederhose) are short or knee-length leather breeches that are worn as traditional garments in German-speaking countries. The longer ones are generally called Bundhosen or Kniebundhosen.[1] Once common workwear across Central Europe, these clothes—or Tracht—are particularly associated with Bavaria and the Tyrol region. [Wikipedia}

Bermuda shorts originated with the British Army for wear in tropical and desert climates, and they are still worn by the Royal Navy, as well as the Royal Canadian Navy. [Wikipedia]

Now that said, the French....

Perhaps this public service announcement was intended for women, but from a male perspective, I would like to offer this response.

I agree that some Europeans wear shorts, I disagree with the suggestion that jeans and pants are not worn when it's hot.

They are. In France, at least, and they're more common even in hot weather than shorts. Far more common, based on my observation.

If you want to pack shorts to wear in the hottest weather, feel free. But if you're comfortable in pants, rest assured that many (in my view most) locals you will encounter also will be wearing pants.

And in cool or cold weather? Leave the shorts at home or in your bag. I realize it's a "thing" in the States for seemingly adult men, especially, to wear shorts and sandals (flip flops?) even in chilly weather, but it just makes them look childish and they'll certainly stand out. Perhaps that's the objective. I don't know, but it just looks silly and inappropriate, in my humble opinion.

If the French would wear shorts and Hawaiian shirts during August the wouldn't have to abandon Paris for the Cote d'Azur.

Matt - to clarify...I never said that men don’t wear shorts and jeans in the summer. If they are going to work, of course they don’t wear shorts. But on the weekends and on vacation, European men wear shorts all the time. My point is that shorts are common and acceptable for all genders throughout Europe, especially for folks on vacation. Personally, I can report that my two boys and my husband wear shorts every single day from May to September.

We have been wearing shorts to Europe since the 90’s. When I would visit the old Yugoslavia in the late 70’s I never wore shorts, only dresses and skirts, but I didn’t wear shorts at home either in those days as an adult. In Croatia today most of our female relatives over the age of 50 were skirts or long pants - no shorts. Most older women wear skirts. The younger ones wear shorts and capris. Every year things change.

I would never wear shorts in Europe. Mostly because I don't have the legs for it. :)

Like most statements of fact about Europe, there is a failure to see Europe as a group of diversified cultures.

I spent the past few days in a European city. I did note the great number of men wearing shorts. Almost entirely those under 20 and Brits. This particular town does have a huge income gap, and any man of even moderate means (or appeared so) for the most part was in pants. And it's hot here.

The women .... let me just say their dress is amazing.

You will find more of the same with men and Britts in Budapest too.

Don't worry about looking like a local. Think about how you want to be perceived. I'm fine looking like I came from Texas. I'm actually wearing boots today and its started some good conversations with locals.

I make my statement about Europeans as someone who lives in Europe and travels all over Europe all the time. I think I appreciate diversified cultures.

. @ James...Likewise in Austin and San Antonio when the temperature was 90F, be it in France, Austria, or Poland regardless the various European cultures, I never wear shorts. Any local will spot me out as an outsider, a visitor, tourist or whatever.

Oh man - lol - my husband wears jeans 365 days a year.

Well, the only time he wears shorts is the 1 or 2 times a year we make it to the beach.

Last year - south of France, 35C + most days - jeans. In the yard doing yard work - jeans. I don't how he does it some days. He bought khakis once, but he is most comfortable in jeans, so he might as well have just flushed that money down the toilet since he never wore them.

This topic gets the full spectrum of opinions, including RS’ Sarah Murdoch’s recent postings on Facebook and YouTube who is on the “less shorts” end of the spectrum.

My humble opinion is just what we’ve noticed each year in Europe. We see more very short shorts worn by the younger people, looking stylish. When we were in Madrid in 2017, I noticed 40 & older women weren’t wearing capris (and I was looking!) - wearing either pants, skirts or dresses. Luckily I packed a couple of dresses, so I switched to those. As we moved farther south, I saw more relaxed clothing, and the coast was finally almost all shorts and capris.

Last year’s trip visiting several smaller town in Italy, I only packed lightweight pants and cotton dresses because I wanted to be more respectful of the locals and since I was visiting their beautiful churches almost every day.

In general, trends are more casual. My first trips to Europe jeans were worn by some but slacks were much more common. Now everyone wears jeans regularly and slacks are less common. Years ago in Australia, men wore shorts but only with knee high socks - only young men wore shorts without the high socks.

Sometimes, however, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some sock/sandal/shorts combinations I've seen may be acceptable but, no. ;-)

You will never see me in shorts in Europe, or pretty much anywhere else either unless I am in a swim suit at the beach. Why? I am just more comfortable in jeans. Always have been. I grew up in southern Texas so I know hot, but shorts have never been comfortable to me.

I don't understand the men of my generation in the US that insist on always wearing shorts. I think it is laughable when I see them out in the snow here in Colorado winters in their shorts because no one is going to tell them they have to wear something else.

Also, like Frank II said, I don't have the legs for them. No one would want to see my bare legs.

I'm still sitting her doing my informal survey. Mostly in areas more local than tourist and still almost no men over 30 in shorts and the few I do see are reading tourist maps. Under 30, a lot. Mostly knee length. Mostly clean, pressed and neat .... except for the tourist kids which look sort of ratty.

Since i don't go to the beach on my summer trips there, (only twice: in the Pas-de-Calais and North Sweden), no matter where I am in Europe, it's long pants, regardless what other guys wear for comfort, style, temperature, etc, be they North Americans or locals.

Wearing shorts is not me and I don't feel comfortable, whether back then in my 20s or now in the late 60s.

True...no use trying to blend in, ...I don't try anyway.

The reason why I started this post was to highlight the fact that it is OK to wear shorts in Europe. I've seen several posts this week which make is sound like there is an unwritten rule that Europeans just don't ever ever wear shorts. That's just not true. I see locals and tourists wearing shorts all over the place. That said, if someone wants to wear jeans, pants, dresses or skirts because that is what they usually wear, then great. My point is - if it is hot, if you want to wear shorts, then you can wear shorts. Short shorts, long shorts, sport shorts, cargo shorts...

I also have pretty much always said that no one cares what you wear. No one cares, so wear what you would wear at home.

wear what you would wear at home.

Now that brings up an entirely different topic. If you mean literally at your house, you don't want to see that for many people for many reasons. ;-)

No one cares what you wear

Maybe, maybe not

I wish more of our UK participants would chime in on this thread!
We have made distinctions by decade, by country/region, and by age to get past the generalizations about Europeans and shorts and Americans and shorts, but only the barest hints of class have come up in this go-round regarding casual dress.

Some people very much do care what they and other people are wearing because they want to either embody or rebel against perceived class expectations.
For instance, in the brief back-and-forth above about how short is too short for women's shorts, the commenters were talking past one another -- the replies had in mind differences in body-image-positivity between Europeans and Americans (again over-broadly generalized) but the intent of the remark (I think) had more to do with what counts as trashy versus what counts as tasteful -- class markers.

I might generalize (though I don't favor generalizing in general) that Americans are more apt to try and punch above their weight, to try and appear [or rebel] part of the class they belong to or higher, while UK and German folks (the original WASPs after all) are aiming to appear as precisely part of their own crowd as they can, neither higher nor lower. I'm saying Americans are aspirationally shallow, while Brits are simply unimaginative. /s
[Let me repeat that /s is a sarcasm or satire marker]

I love Hawaiian shirts, and always take a couple with me to Europe. Don't know if I've seen other people wear them, cuz I'm not observant about that kind of thing.

I'll be in London, No. Italy, and Austria this summer. Two pairs of blue jeans and one pair of light weight black pants. No shorts. Just more comfortable in jeans.

Thanks Emily-I like this :)
Just returned from 10 days in England and I can tell you that I saw a lot of shorts, all over the place, every venue. Short ones, long ones, men, women, children. On a particularly nice Saturday, I saw people in tank tops/swimsuits/shirtless (men) at a park in Greenwich. I also saw capris, running tights worn as pants, skirts, long pants, jeans, you name it, I saw it. In the Ashmolean, I saw a woman wearing a sports bra and teeny tiny running shorts, I am not sure what that was about but nobody seemed to make a fuss (though she did get a lot of attention). At Stonehenge, we had a whole family in our group wearing shorts and it was cold and rainy (they all purchased sweatshirts in the gift shop lol). I think I have concluded that while people may stare a bit if someone looks peculiarly dressed, in the end, most don't give a hoot what other people are wearing. And the ones that do, who cares what they think? I dress mainly for comfort, but I also want to look reasonably nice, I take a lot of photos so I try to dress in a way that makes me look good (in my opinion anyway). I saw many sloppy looking folks, but who am I to judge? I laugh when people ask how they can avoid looking like a tourist. In Europe, I am a tourist, and no amount of clothing changes that, so why not enjoy my time being comfortable?

Tonight in Budapest the attire of choice is a towel around the waist and a bare chest with writing on it expressing an unnatural love for Wales.

I wish more of our UK participants would chime in on this thread!
We have made distinctions by decade, by country/region, and by age to get past the generalizations about Europeans and shorts and Americans and shorts, but only the barest hints of class have come up in this go-round regarding casual dress.

This concept that the British are obsessed with class is completely outdated. In fact, my perception has been that American's are far more concerned about class than the British. My parents would consider themselves working class because they've always had low paid, manual or menial work, they still live in a council house and throughout my childhood I had one holiday.

My wife and I have managed to secure very good jobs (until I was medically retired) despite neither of us attending university. We have our own house in the most affluent part of Portsmouth (a plumber once mentioned to me "you know you've made it when you buy a house here") Our children attend the best rated state school in the city, we have seven holidays booked for this year including flights in business and first class (I will be in shorts when I'm flying business and first unless the weather at the destination precludes it) so in all respects we fit into the Middle Class bracket however we don't identify ourselves by class, we never made a concious decision to become Middle Class we're just a couple who studied hard, worked hard and managed to become financially secure and successful in our respective careers. My experience over the many years of travelling to the US is that it's seen as quite reasonable to ask someone what they earn, what they paid for their house or their car, there is a very definite "keeping up with the Jones'" than there is in the UK (that died out pretty much in the 70's). There is still a palpable sense of identifying with a particular class in the US and the desire to reach a higher status.

As for shorts and class in the UK, there is no distinction. Much of it comes down to a generational thing (much the same in most of Europe). I simply feel more comfortable in shorts and as much of my time is spent working from home I'm in them pretty much throughout the year. I'll only wear jeans if I need to go out and it's cold or if there's a particular event that requires wearing trousers. My dad on the other hand is only ever in jeans, I can only recall him wearing shorts when we took my parents to Mallorca a few years ago. You'll find older men throughout Europe never wearing shorts, even in the middle of summer in Spain, Italy, Greece etc but that doesn't mean that the younger men won't be in shorts.

Why do this? It’s weird.

Branding and logos are shamelessly ubiquitous in the US. If a business can monetize something, it will do it. Have you seen the US Olympic team march in the Opening Ceremonies with their giant Ralph Lauren Polo logos on their uniforms (getting larger every 4 years)? Universities, other private and public companies, and even States are also seen as brands to be marketed, although I would guess there are more Harvard University sweatshirts worn than actual students or former students. It's an aspirational/ affinity purchase. But how is that so different than wearing a Real Madrid shirt? Either way, a person is telegraphing their loyalty/ affection/ desire to be associated with something. There's more branding in sportswear than any other types of clothing I can think of. I personally don't like glaring logos unless someone wants to pay me to advertise their stuff.

Re: shorts, I really don't believe prior generations of Europeans wore shorts to the extent they do now. I've never seen my Grandfather with shorts, only long pants. Much more formal attire back then.

A great idea...wearing a Hawaiian shirt. In looking like the obvious tourist in Europe, I have never tried the Hawaiian shirt approach. Wearing that shirt sends the message that blending in is out of the question and undesired.

That's obvious to all Americans as the tourist who stands out, but that presupposes that the "bad guys" over there would even know what a Hawaiian shirt even looks like.

I posted the question about shorts in Disneyland Paris a few weeks ago. If the weather is as warm as it was last year, I would prefer to wear shorts to the parks, but at the same time I did not want to appear strange while on the Metro/RER from the city. Of course the RER ends at the parks, so it will probably be obvious where we are going. I don't want to blend in as much as not wanting to stand out!

The only time someone attempted to pick pocket me was when I was wearing a Hawaiian shirt (a friend gifted me) on the Barcelona Metro. As soon as I opened my mouth and those pickpockets realised I was a local, they backed off. I never wore a Hawaiian shirt to the metro again lol. As a tourist, one thing is "standing out" and another is "STANDING OUT".

re: Hawaiian shirts -- there is an old prank from the earlier days of air travel when a fun thing to do was to put on a Hawaiian shirt and sunglasses and when you meet the other people in your row when boarding the plane to smile big and ask excitedly, "So, is this your first trip to Honolulu?" no matter where the plane is heading.

re: British classes -- I didn't mean to communicate that Brits are obsessed with class, I meant that Brits tend to have a keener eye or awareness of class markers, and both emma and JC have exhibited that well in their comments.

--Which is a good segue to logos and brands on clothing: Which American tourists are covered in logos? Not those in my class, I can tell you for sure. My comrades barely need to cock an eyebrow when the Tommy Hilfiger or overlapping-Gs families pass by -- it is clearly a marker that Lululemon aspirants aim for natural materials and minimal labels at least partially because they don't want to be taken for one of the ignorant consumer masses (because they are part of the knowing consumer elite -- which type of consumer you are is what Americans are keenly sensitive to).
Dressing habits are very similar to speaking habits -- who uses too few 'r's or too many 'r's becomes a marker of relative position in society (at least back when there were limits on communication and travel) and in the same way who wears synthetic fibers and who doesn't is as much a matter of class as of utility.

Haven't you folks noticed that travel and workout clothing is a clever way for marketers to try and overcome the aversion that us elites have towards artificial fabrics? If the makers can convince us that nylon and polyester have merits that outweigh their humble status as the fabrics of the masses, then they can take in that much more of our money.

Sports clothing is like coconut water and avocados -- once it becomes popular enough to be common, we have to find another way to waste our surplus money and mark our separation from the herd. A 300 horsepower sedan sits in rush hour traffic just the same as a 100 horsepower sedan but the extra $50K the former costs us is worth it so we can be sure everyone in the surrounding cars knows that we have refined taste and are more special than they are. /s

@ Carlos...bravo! Shows linguistic skill.

A few years back I was recommended this restaurant in Vienna (unfortunately it's gone) by a hostel staffer, went there for lunch.

While I was there, two Asian young guys came in wearing a Northwestern University T-shirt. I could spot out right way they were American. They took a table not far from my table, ie, close enough I could hear their conversation, the waiter gave them automatically an English menu.

Chances are these guys did really attend that university otherwise they wouldn't have had that T-shirt on...unthinkable to have on something from a different school, of which they were not a part.

"Why do this?" Of course, they will do it, It's a matter of course. Do I? I don't do it, never have done such a thing as a Calif boy.

If "they" are from Texas , they will demonstrate that by having their "Longhorn" T-Shirts/sweatshirts on, so that every one will see it and know it.

My first trip to London in 1971 I saw guys (university age as I was) wearing the bright sweat shirts from Kansas...ie, broadcasting that message. It was my first time seeing Americans from different states other than those from Calif.

@James E: The Wales thing is due to the futbol. Wales is on a tour to lose to as many continental teams as possible in a short time. I was in Zagreb 06-08 when Wales played Croatia in a UEFA qualifier. The downtown bars had 10:1 Wales:Croatia supporters. Wales banners, Liverpool banners, all kinds of EPL banners. It was fun. There were a TON of cops, but all seemed well behaved, and the bars did a good business.

If "they" are from Texas , they will demonstrate that by having their "Longhorn" T-Shirts/sweatshirts on, so that every one will see it and know it.

Interesting fact about the Longhorn T-Shirts. That is a licensed trademark of the University of Texas and a bit of each sale goes to the University. But the University is very liberal in who they license to, so we generally refer to them as Walmart Shoppers. The other large university is more particular, or maybe charges too much, so it's less common to see Aggie t shirts; and by and large someone wearing one is indeed an Aggie. But for the most part these are the US equivalent to European "football" club shirts which are somewhat common in Europe.

What has become common to see in Europe are US ball caps, mostly NY, on the heads of young Europeans.

Then the discussion of "Class" that too could be a long cultural discussion as varied as the hundreds of European cultures. Personally I know of people from all sorts of walks of life that are completely indiguinshiable by their dress; both here and in the US. To me it seems to be more of a thing of generation and upbringing.

Fred - I still remember eavesdropping when we were in Cinque Terre at one of the train stations There was a couple there and the gal had on a Roots Canada top. Obvs some other Canadians there because a guy said - oh, are you from Canada? Where? She sheepishly replied - I'm from New York. So began the joking about her trying to 'pass' as a Canadian. But it is neat to wear your 'local' branded shirts. We have a hometown store that makes 'HOME' shirts with our province in place of the 'O'. At a U2 concert in NYC and someone walked by and said...hey...have that same shirt...I'm from Dartmouth! Never know where in the world you'll meet some else from your area!

My family and I wear our Carolina gear all the time in Vienna as well as other logo t-shirts. This is particularly true for my teenager who likes to be the cool American among his Austrian friends.

@emma, the college sweatshirt thing is mostly about supporting the sports teams associated with the schools (education is secondary). So even older adults long past college age, wear their alumni colors in support of their school's teams. I know that its not the case in Europe, for college to be linked with sports.

@ Nicole...I've seen, though very rarely, the Dartmouth folks wearing a Dartmouth sweat shirt in CA too. That NY girl didn't want to be spotted out as American...probably. In the '70s one saw them wearing a little Maple Leaf flag on the top of their backpacks.

Wearing that college T-shirt/sweat shirt all goes back to the Beach Boys song on being "true to your school"... be it as a student, employee or part of the alumni.

Travel Man, based on your comment, "Love wearing a hat in the summer but hard to find something plain," look for hats by Outdoor Research. They do have a tag on the back, but it is small and can be removed. The hats are great for traveling because the brim folds so the hat fits in your pocket.

If "they" are from Texas , they will demonstrate that by having their "Longhorn" T-Shirts/sweatshirts on

That is only a small number of "they" from Texas who wear those specific shirts. I am from Texas, proud of it, and you will never see anything "Longhorn" anywhere around me. Can't stand that shade of orange. ;-)

... didn't want to be spotted out as American....

And then there are my Canadian friends who wear Canadian Flag patches and other maple leaf apparel to avoid any confusion about which North American country is home.

UT in Austin...those "Longhorns" have an utterly fantastic university library as it pertains to history, ie on France, the US, Germany, Russia, Britain, Latin America, etc...that's my plug for them...

When my husband's family used to visit relatives in Germany they often had a wish list of items. Sometimes it was American branded sneakers or jeans, but at times there was a "Harvard" "Stanford" "MIT" T or sweatshirt. When they came to see us, I recall one of the items was gummy bears!

"And then there are my Canadian friends who wear Canadian Flag patches and other maple leaf apparel to avoid any confusion about which North American country is home."

Yup. Europeans tend to call us all Americans if we are from North America. I've taken to travelling with a couple of ball caps with the Maple Leaf on it just as a reminder that we do prefer to be called Canadians. I asked a french waiter if he was European and got a 'french frown', he said he's French...I hope he didn't spit in my food....

I have to confess to not recognising the difference between a Canadian accent and what I would describe as an 'generic' American accent, i.e. not a Southern, New York, Minnesotan one for example. So unless I identify any clothing depicting anythng relating to Canada I'm often goin to assume that the Canadian I'm speaking to is from the US (sorry Canadians!).

I would also expect that if you asked anyone in any country in Europe whether they consider themselves European or Fres nch, Spanish, Italian, German etc the response would be overwhelmingly the national option rather than European.

As with the USA, some provinces in Canada have a def accent...Newfoundland, Quebec of course, and even some of our cape Breton brethren. But I’d be hard pressed to tell the difference between someone from BC or Alberta and someone from Ontario.

Of course, I don’t hear my accent, but we have been mistaken for Irish (by a woman in Rome who said she was a linguist) and Scottish (when in cinque terre, by a couple from Ontario, much to their chagrin). My sister who moved to the uk used to be mistaken for Irish and Scottish a lot at her job.

(And just to clarify, by Dartmouth, I meant Dartmouth, Nova Scotia...not Dartmouth college).

Before this puppy goes completely off topic, back to shorts.

The first 25 years (70s-to beyond the 80's) of my life was pent in a small beach town north of San Diego. When I was able to pick my own clothes to wear, it was always shorts. Jeans were for the gardening and home improvements my father had me do. I even went to mass in shorts.

The last 20 years I've been here in Logroño, and weather permitting, I wear shorts. Even to mass. (maybe being a parishioner has its advantages.)

Taking about brands, it is very funny because growing up the cool brands were Quicksilver, O'neill, Billabong and Vans. Very SoCal. Now you can get those at most clothes stores here. The one brand that I haven't seen is OP (Ocean Pacific). GAP sweatshirts were always a popular gift for people to bring back from the States, until you could get them online.

I am a Raiders fan, and I see a lot of Raiders garb; hats, shirts, jackets, etc, but it is more of a teen rebel thing, and most of them haven't clue. When I was visiting Washington, I wore my Raider Tshirt, and I did get a few Raider Nation call outs. I am also a Padres fan, but no one every buys Padre gear. The Yankees, Bosox, Dodgers, and some Cubbies. One day as I was sitting at a café a guy walked by in a brown Tony Gwynn jersey. A kindred fan I thought, and I raced over to him, but alas, it was a gift from his brother in law who lived in San Diego.

Finally, (proud father alert) my son got into the Sorbornne, and will start in September, and I will get me a sweatshirt and wear it with pride.

note for clarification to non-Americans: When James E uses the term Walmart Shoppers above it means the same as when I used the phrase ignorant consumer masses, in contrast with the knowing consumer elite.
As I was saying, here in the US we don't have as fine a sensitivity to class markers but we are very prickly about consumption markers.
[That's part of the context for the oft-repeated anecdote about the 'lemon-pepper' rubes in the French bistro that comes back every now and then in other RS threads]

10 or 15 years ago on this Forum, the regulars were about 95% against shorts; this may have partly reflected Rick's comment that "shorts just look goofy." In the last 10 years, the sentiment here has changed, perhaps partly as a result of more young Europeans wearing shorts. But Rick still does not wear shorts (that I have seen)--but then he's only our travel guru, not our sartorial guru.
Observe the smiley.
:-)
But you still can't get into some of the best cathedrals in shorts.

Follow up to avirosemail's note about Walmart Shoppers. Do a "Goggle" search for "wallmart shoppers" and view the images displayed for that search.

Not that avirosemail may or may not be correct in his/her judgment of Walmart shoppers, but in this particular case my comment dealt more with the fact that tu (UT) clothing is widely available in every Walmart in Texas and we assume a person wearing such apparel is more likely to be a Walmart shopper than a tu student or graduate. It's a regional thing that is probably not well understood by outsiders. In other words Whoop!

Thanks James for that explanation, ie meaning it is a regional thing. When I saw those kids (they were teenagers) in 2008 having UT T-shirts on etc, I thought that they all had gone to the Student Body store to buy them, when some could very well have bought it at Walmarts.

No hats in church, either.

????

This is not a men-only forum. There are WOMEN in this forum too. LOL I've seen the most beautiful hats worn by the ladies when I go to a Choral Eucharist on Sundays in England as I do here in New York.

One thing I have recently noticed about American visitors to London is
their fondness for wearing sweatshirts with either their home state or
college displayed loud and proud. Just yesterday I saw a large family
all wearing garments emblazoned with California. Why do this? It’s
weird. Similarly with college sweatshirts....

Sounds like it might be time for a return visit to the US and travel the country! :-) Personally, I wear a sweatshirt only to/from the gym or to/from tennis courts if it's cold outside. That's it. But others love the feel and comfort of a sweatshirt. And whether it's a sweatshirt, t-shirt, shorts, whatever, there is a great deal of love for one's alma mater which is why you'll see people wearing these clothes with their college/universities front and center. Or the parents may wear these clothes in which their kids are students. There is a love of where people studied and what you think is "weird" is what others adore to wear casually. People also love wearing t-shirts/sweats of their favorite sports teams too. I've seen fans wear rugbies, hats, shirts of their favorite soccer (European football) and rugby teams while on public transport in England so it's not just American.

One exception are people who went to Oxford or Cambridge, they often
feel a need to slip that fact into conversation. :-)

Isn't Oxbridge quite a big 'exception'? :-)

I know if when I was at uni I had come home to see my parents wearing
sweatshirts saying "University of Manchester" I would have assumed it
was a wierd joke or the first sign of a break down!:-)

LOL Got it! It isn't just limited to casual wear for showing love of one's college or university. Ties, tie tacks, cufflinks, silk scarves, belts, lapel pins -- all popular.

Reminds me of a joke...

Question: How do you know someone went to Harvard (insert Yale, Oxford, Cambridge)?

Answer: Don’t worry, they’ll let you know in the first 10 sec of conversation...

Here in Paris right now - don’t care what other people wear , but I can sure you - we’ve seen plenty of shorts . And “‘runners “

Will be in Barcelona in 2 weeks. It'll be hot.
I'm an old man,63, I'll be in shorts.

Taking about brands, it is very funny because growing up the cool brands were Quicksilver, O'neill, Billabong and Vans. Very SoCal. Now you can get those at most clothes stores here. The one brand that I haven't seen is OP (Ocean Pacific).

Vans are still very popular with the 'alternative' kids. My sons (14 & 12) and their friends are very into Vans, Converse and even Levi's which appear to have made a comeback with the 'cool' kids. Ocean Pacific did try and make in roads to the UK market but they were considered uncool for some reason.

Monty - I hate to tell you this, but short shorts are very fashionable all over Europe. Europeans are very comfortable with their bodies and do not subscribe to the same modesty that most N. American women do - thank goodness!

...What? This is a backwards way to see America. And whether someone is “comfortable with their body” or not is entirely individual

America is a highly developed, culturally diverse and influential, new world country, that has the largest fashion, beauty, and porn industries, and invented most immodest forms of dress. You’re seriously trying to imply that American women care about modesty? No, that’s absurd and arrogant. In my experience, it was European women covering up, caring about being buttoned up and fashion forward. American women were much more likely to be immodest and wear denim cutoffs and crop tops...styles that were invented in the US.

What utter nonsense.

As an American woman living in Europe, I can promise you, this is not nonsense. My point is that European women do not care how their bodies look in bikinis and short shorts. American women do care. Go to a public swimming pool in Austria and then go to a pool, any pool, in the US and tell me what you see.

I think what we have going on here is a good case of superiority and discriminatory cultural labeling.

It would be hard for me to judge, as what makes a lasting impact and colors my perception are the pleasurable extremes in America and in Europe. One point I would like to make is that Europe is a very large and diverse place and to lump Swedish and Romanian women into the same generalization is sort of ignorant (uninformed). I guess it's TRUE that Americans need to get out more, even Americans living in Europe. Because it's sort of important, and respectful, to recognize this simple reality.