Provocative questions

Ask away; I don't mind butting heads with anybody. :)

Oh come on, stir that pot!

This is a travel forum.

Now, naturally, we think about other things, too. And some of us might have some insight into some sort of "typical" European way of seeing things socially & politically - or just different ways of interacting. But all that evidence is anecdotal, and based on interactions with people from dozens of different cultural pockets, so I struggle to imagine what valuable generalizations could exist.

It might be fun to speculate, but it might be fun to speculate on the differences between any number of non-travel issues, too. That would ruin this forum.

Think abortion, or Iraq or Bush or guns, then focus on the last sentence you wrote before "thank You" at the top.

I can make this about travel. I worked for many years in a large organization that employs people of many origins. In discussions with some of the people from other cultures, I sometimes asked about their countries. And almost to a person, they encouraged me to visit their country.

I can't think of a way that the original question here can be answered properly on this forum.

If this is so important to you, why not contact a Cultural Anthropologist in your area and see what you can learn from him/her?

This is after all, a travel forum and though we might have some ideas, your situation may warrant a real expert in the area of cultural differences.

By the way, did you also post the same situation over at Frommers and other travel boards?

Kathleen, I think most of the problems in your department are because you have been through layoffs, mergers and reorganizations. In my experience, everyone gets testy, cranky, anxious, suspicious, paranoid, whiny and generally unhappy in those circumstances. Not the best time to be drawing conclusions about different cultures. I hope things settle down and everyone's mood gets better, but it will probably take a while.

With the yeasty-ness of your situation, I will venture to say that the issue is the business "etiquette" of the different cultures that are being thrown together.
As I attempt to sell into different cultures, I try to research how they they process the situation--for example, Germans don't go into what I call foreplay, and want to get to the issue as quick as possible--kind of like the folks in NY and Jersey here in the States--and they also don't have a problem someone who may be a little long in tooth.
Many Brits I deal with, on the other hand, seem to think if you're over 40 and not in charge, they are dealing with a has-been.
Latin(not French) prefer a non-confrontational approach to issues and problems so everyone can save face==really like a lot of our brethren in the Southeastern US. As you can see, a German dealing with a Brazilian can have some serious process problems, just like a New Yorker dealing with someone from South Carolina!
Suggest you stop flogging yourself, and manage the challenge you are facing--management must have a high degree of confidence in you to give you this kind of challenge.
Final note--are you in Bolton in the UK? That's where I travel to to see my EU rep!

Kathleen, you've missed the point. This is a "TRAVEL" forum. The questions and answers are supposed to be about "traveling" in Europe and not about how do deal with co-workers from around the world.

Good luck.

Hi everyone.

I've read your responses and I thank you for them. I've decided to leave this forum. From reading a lot of the other threads, it seems that criticism of Europeans and their ways is NOT appreciated and I'm not too sure I can discuss the difficulties my company is having WITHOUT a little criticism of my European coworkers.

While I believe that some of my department's problems are due to the layoffs/mergers etc., a lot of them are due to various cultures being thrown together. In my opinion, that explains the conflicts but it doesn't excuse them. I think when you live in a foreign country the burden is on YOU to follow the ways of the host country.

I'm going to try other forums and see how that goes. Again, thanks for your replies.

Good bye.

Kathleen, sorry to hear that you are going. Part of the problem is that this is a travel forum and not an expat forum. If you want those kind of opinions, then this probably was the wrong place to look. One other point is that working together with an international group of people is nothing like traveling in foreign lands. Totally, totally different. The majority of the people on this forum do not live in other countries, nor work with a major international work force. Some do of course, but not the majority, which it seems you are looking for opinions from.

Honestly, go drop into Toytown which is an English speaking website for those of us who live in Germany. You will not believe the bashing that goes on there. It doesn't mean that we don't like it here, and in fact many people are married to Germans, but most expats see things differently than the natives of whatever land they are living in. If you could read German, there is the same kind of forum for Germans living in the UK too. That is just how it is.

You have gotten some great advice from some of the other posters about the work situation itself, so this may be where the major problems lie, and not because of any arbitrary labels that people like to put on folks from other countries. There is no typical person from any country as far as I am concerned.

So, good luck to you.

http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php

To Jo: Thank you for your reply. I DID go on that website you posted and you're right, there is a lot of bashing going on. :-(

By coming to this forum, I guess I just wanted to see if any of the travelers has some advice on how to deal with "cultural clash". I'm thinking an expat forum WOULD be better.

One thing I don't get about this forum though is that several members believe that any criticism Europeans have for America/Americans should be viewed as constructive and possibly a means for us to change. At the same time there is this belief that Americans should accept that Europeans may have a different approach to something and we should not try to change it. If that is the case, then it explains some of the difficulties my department is experiencing. After all, if one side can change the other, but not vice versa, then that's going to lead to problems right?

Thanks again for your reply.

"several members believe that any criticism Europeans have for America/Americans should be viewed as constructive and possibly a means for us to change. At the same time there is this belief that Americans should accept that Europeans may have a different approach to something and we should not try to change it."
Kathleen....you're making massive generalizations that can't be supported. Just as there is the "Ugly American" abroad, there will be the Ugly Brit, Canadian, Frenchman, Spaniard, Moldovian abroad. As several posters have noted, there are expat Americans and Canadians abroad who criticise their new homes...likely because they are uncomfortable with their position, and complaining is the only way they feel they can cope. Such incidents are not limited to your co-workers in the states.
Your original question on this matter dealt with a Frenchwoman with whom you had been having an argument. Simply ignore her (and any others who may think the same way) and form personal relationships with those foreign employees whom you like. Judge for yourself whether their criticisms are justified....if they aren't simply ignore them as ignorant comments from ignorant people, and get on with your life. Life is far too short to let the opinions of a couple of people (foreigners OR locals) get you so worked up.....it's not good for the blood pressure. ;)

Kathleen,

I don't have any issues with your questions. In some ways, understanding different cultures and attitudes IS relevant to travel.

The other thing is that somewhat of a "community" has evolved here on the HelpLine, and some of us like a good discussion or debate once in a while (as long as it's done in a civil manner).

Hopefully you won't say "goodbye", and will stop by for a visit once in a while.

Cheers!

Kathleen,

I accept your explanations but never had any problems with the questions you posed, whether provocative or not. Cultural differences, values, perspectives, etc. arise from traveling also. As some othere have said here, I say ask away. Don't stop with the questions.

As for expats in Europe and, especially, those in Germany--and I have seen some of them in Berlin and Bonn on my trips--I have no sympathy at all with their complaints... maybe they don't realise the positive aspects of living in Germany, or they're too conditioned.