Problems with Capital One?

Which site are using to by the train tickets?

I bought tickets on the Deutsche Bahn site a couple of weeks ago. First I tried a B of A card, and it was declined. Then I tried a CapOne card, and it too was declined, but almost immediately I got an e-mail from CapOne asking me to confirm the transaction. I did, then tried the DB transaction again, and it went through OK.

It seems like credit card companies constantly tweak their fraud algorithms and who knows what will work on any given day.

It’s not good that we always have to just wait and see if a given transaction will go through.

I actually find it quite annoying when my domestic charges get blocked and my card denied after booking a hotel or train overseas. This happened last year, booked an overseas hotel room and the charge went through fine, bought a soda at the 7/11 across the street, went through fine, went out to dinner, 2 hours later declined and I was on a date which was embarrassing. I did have another card, called Cap One when I got home and apparently the fraud people took their time in flagging my card after the overseas hotel purchase, ugh!

If you are using the SNCF site, I believe they require 3-D security on your card, which might be something like Visa Checkout, where they come back to you to enter a PIN. Try buying at www.thetrainline.com or Loco2, https://loco2.com/en-us. I have heard that trainline is starting to charge commissions to non-Europeans. Don't know as I have not used them lately. Anyway, credit card verification does not seem to be a problem with them.

Edited later to add: (apologies for all the bold but many people are not reading or understanding what's below)...

There is a LOT of misinformation posted in this thread.
This is NOT about your bank suspecting fraud and declining a credit card transaction.
You can NOT fix this by contacting your bank and alerting them that you will be making foreign transactions.
This has nothing to do with your bank.
Your American credit card is incompatible with the system being used for the transaction.
Please stop replying with suggestions to call your credit card issuer.

If you don't want to believe me, fine. Here's what Rick Steves staffer Laura said about this, in response to my original post on the problem back in January:

The 3-D Secure standards are a common problem for Americans trying to make online purchases on those foreign web sites that have chosen to implement the procedure, including many in France and many railways (France SNCF, Norway NSB, Austria OEBB, etc.). " Short-circuited" is a good description - if it doesn't detect that you're in the program, it does just stop the whole approval process.

You can read more of her response (and more about this problematic system) in my original post from january here:
3-D Secure credit card payments - wha???

You may have run into this new (and highly problematic for Americans) "3-D Secure" system. In short, it's a new system that's increasingly common in Europe, used for online purchases, requires a credit card which is tied to a mobile phone account so they can send you a verification code to complete the transaction.

I ran into this back in January and was hitting one brick wall after another. The vendor insisted my credit card was being declined (I tried many different cards), my credit card issuers assured me there were no declined transactions and that the vendor was not even attempting any charges. Round and round it went for a couple days until I discovered there's this new "security" layer added - and American credit cards do not work with it. I was unable to complete the transaction and had to end up wiring money.

It seems this is an increasingly common problem for Americans. American banks don't seem to know anything about it (mine didn't - major US credit card issuers eg Chase, Citi, American Express). I guess you can add Capital One to that list.

I believe it's commonly used for processing the purchase of train tickets...so I think that's what you ran into.

AFAIK there's no way to make it work. You need a credit card that is "3-D Secure" enabled, and I believe no American credit cards are (or plan to be).

Here's the thread I started in January when I stumbled into this mess: 3-D Secure credit card payments - wha???

Good luck.

We always have called our credit card companies before making any payment to a foreign country and have done this for many years. Charges have been blocked when we didn't do that. All of our credit card companies have had this policy.
It isn't just CapitalOne. It isn’t a problem; it is a policy in place for your protection.

We always have called our credit card companies before making any payment to a foreign country and have done this for many years. Charges have been blocked when we didn't do that. All of our credit card companies have had this policy.
It isn't just CapitalOne. It isn’t a problem; it is a policy in place for your protection.

Respectfully, no. I don't believe that's what this is about.

There's a new "security" layer added in-between the vendor and your bank. If you have a credit card issued by an American bank, it probably won't work - no matter how many times you warn the bank that you're about to make a purchase from a foreign business.

After making many attempts, I did one while I had a CS agent from my credit card on the phone. I told them, "I'm going to click the purchase button now", they said "OK, we will watch for the charge", I clicked the button, the web page churned for a minute, then it came back and said the charge failed the security check; the CS agent said "there has been no charge made, no charge declined."

If it's the "3-D secure" system (and that's exactly what it sounds like), it just blocks the attempt to charge your card and the bank will never see it. It's got nothing to do with the bank's fraud triggers - the system stops the charge before it ever hits your bank.

Yep this is how I discovered the thetrainline after having my card declined all the time online when trying to buy tickets directly on the French rail ouisncf.

Capital One fraud alerts drive me crazy. Whenever I want to pay for, say, a hotel in Europe (for purposes of reimbursement from my employer), I now have to call fraud alert in advance to tell them when a charge will be made and and how much, or risk the card being declined. Often this requires significant wait time, which is very surprising given that any person calling fraud alert could have a serious issue as far as Cap One knows. I'd switch to another card, but Cap One is still the best deal for miles as far as I can see.

CapitalOne told not to call them about travel alerts anymore. I have not had one issue with it, including buying $1.25 transit tickets out of the BKK automats in Budapest.

No trouble yet and I sure hope there isn’t any, for upcoming Ireland trip. I have experienced the normal “did you make this purchase?” with my CapOne card declined, but working after I okayed the purchase and tried a second time. But nothing like David describes. And yes, CapOne has said they no longer set up travel alerts like my other card does.

American banks don't seem to know anything about it

Well, mine certainly does (US Bank). My bank account info is set up this way. Sometimes it's a minor pain in the a** if I'm on my computer in a different room from my phone.

Transactions where you are physically there and have your card with you and insert it into the reader are treated differently than online purchases. The on the spot purchase has the chip to verify (with or without a PIN) to know it is the real card, online purchase don't use the chip (yet) so they have adapted other verification methods. Unfortunately when your bank doesn't participate in the new methods, you can't use your card.

Also, several train companies in Europe have specifically blocked cash back and the higher level mileage cards from use on their systems because it costs them too much. Yes, someone has to pay for all the dollars and miles you collect. Did you think it was the card issuing bank? Oh no, they charge the merchant where the card is used an inflated fee to pay for what they give you.

When you bought plane tickets, wee you on the European site for the airline, or was it the US site even if it was an european airline? Most of the European airlines have US sites they point you to so the credit card acceptance process is like it is for other US based online merchants.

In this case, it does sound like the 3-D verification system is what the train company is hoping works and you are not set up for it. Try one of the other train ticket companies mentioned in the other responses to get around the problem, for now.

I agree that Cap1 drives me nuts with fraud alerts. We take student groups to Europe every year and charge thousands tobour Cap1 card every year before we actually arrive into Europe. Even though I have years of credit card activity history of this same pattern Cap1 still shuts me down.

As for the new layer of security whenever I have a problem and Cap1 says they don’t see any attempted charges even though the European website is saying card declined...I whip out the Amex and it usually goes right through. SBB is a good example of only taking my AMEX.

It looks like you all have hit the nail on the head. It was, indeed, the 3-D security system, and the website I was using was https://en.oui.sncf/en/tgv

I did have an email from CapOne asking me to verify the transaction, but that didn't help. I then dealt with the automated customer service system, which said I was OK. No, that didn't work either. Finally I spoke at length with a person in the fraud department; I haven't tried again since I spoke to her last night.

A forum friend whom I emailed about this (she's the one who told me the train tickets were available for our dates) suggested either using PayPal, or booking through the RS site.

I'll try again this morning, and will report back.

Thanks, everyone

Update: PayPal is only available for non-exchangeable, non-refundable tickets. Bummer.

Edit to add: Just got them through https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains

There was an extra service charge, though, since it was through RailEurope. But at least I have them.

Now, I'm going to have to do this all over again next week for our next TGV ride! But I'll skip the first 10 steps then.

I would not use the RS site, since it is just a pass-through link to Rail Europe, a less-than optimal reseller. Try loco2. I have used Trainline in the past, and got tickets at exactly the same price as shown on the TGV site, but I have heard things have changed there.

I've booked on SCNF but recall having credit card issues regularly in France, not necessarily on the SCNF site. My theory is the transaction times out before they get approval from overseas. I've had luck with just running the same card a second time. I'm not sure if that will work but it's worth a try.

I also have Capital One and have used it many times to buy tickets from home on foreign websites and usually have no trouble, until a few weeks ago when I tried buying bus tickets on a site in Latvia. Wouldn't go through, even got the Capital text to confirm and still wouldn't, so I went to the site on my phone and used my card without issue. I think it could be my home desktop computer blocking it, and pretty soon I'll be buying a ticket from a theatre in Budapest, which I've done from home using this card 2 times over the past 2 years, so I'm curious to see if it goes through.

To those who keep responding with nonsense - "try again later", "call your bank and tell them you will be using your card overseas", "I appreciate fraud protection" - please stop, you are just confusing people (perhaps including yourself) who have not bothered to actually read the thread.

This has NOTHING to do with your bank suspecting fraud. In fact it has nothing to do with your bank AT ALL. It is 100% about a separate system that's now used by some European websites for THEIR protection (not yours), and it is essentially incompatible with American credit cards - the system does not work with US credit cards so there is nothing you or your bank can do to make the transaction work. NOTHING. With this system, your American credit card is as useless as a blank piece of plastic.

If you actually read the posts above you will understand what the real issue is (and it ain't about your bank suspecting fraud because your bank never even sees the attempted transaction).

To the OP: glad you found a workaround, even if the price was a little higher. Sometimes it's worth paying a little extra to just get the darn thing done (after you've been fighting with it for days).

To others: Remember this key phrase..."3-D Secure". One day, when you try to make an online purchase for something in Europe using an American credit card, and the transaction fails over and over and over, no matter how many times you try, no matter how many times you call your bank and alert them (and they assure you you are good to go for foreign transactions), come back here and search for "3-D Secure" and it will make sense.

@David. Sorry, I have to disagree with what you said because last week I bought TGV tickets from Paris CDG to Champagne-Ardenne (near Reims) on-line (OUIscnf website) using a Visa card. Before I did it, I called Chase Card Services and told them I was going to make the foreign transaction on-line and told them what the cost would be. The agent made some notations or performed some other acts of magic and told me that it was all set. The transaction went through the first time. Maybe the problem is Cap1. If a foreign on-line transaction doesn't go through the first time with Chase, which admittedly has happened to me in the past, I have always had the issue resolved very quickly.

A similar thing happened to me. I had been purchasing dog food on line with a company in Italy. They were bought by someone else and discontinued the dog food we been buying. So after much research found a company that had the ingredianta that worked.

Used my Chase Visa United Explorer card and was declined. Called and Chase confirmed I’d entered the incorrect CVC code (odd, I know the number). So tried purchase again with same card. Declined. Call back and they said there was no second attempt or “ping” from anyone. Tried a third time with Chase on the phone, and declined again, but Chase saw no attempt. Then I tried a Citibank card and a Capital One, all declined. At that point I gave up and decided on a EFT through transfer wise. PayPal was an option but expensive. After the company received the funds, they shipped the dog food.

Now I better undersand what was happening. I even received an email from chase saying “in response to a recent request, we noted that You’d be using you United MP card for above average spending”

@Robert - I'm not saying that ALL European websites use this technology ("3-D Secure"). And I can't say that EVERY American credit card is incompatible with 3-D Secure.

What I am confident of is that that most American credit cards do not, will not, and can not work if the European website that you're trying to use does use that 3-D Secure system.

I suspect that the website you used was not using the 3-D Secure system.

FWIW, when I ran into my first encounter with a European website using 3-D Secure technology, I tried no less than 4 different Chase cards - after calling Chase many times telling them exactly how much I would be charging, the name of the company that would be charging me, and while having a Chase CS agent live on the phone with me as I made the attempts. They said they were not declining any charges, and that they saw no attempted charges made to my cards (I tried many).

The problem is that the charge never reaches the bank's systems, so there is nothing the bank can do to "unblock" or otherwise bless the transaction. The 3-D Secure system blocks it before it goes to your bank. The bank has nothing to do with it.

If you found a way past this on the SCNF website, great. But it is a real problem for Americans with US-issued credit cards, and if you run into it, there is nothing your bank can do to help. It will trip-up more people in the coming years, and it's not widely known - that's why I wanted to make a point here that this is NOT your garden variety suspected-fraud issue.

Please read the note from Rick Steves staff-member "Laura" in my linked post above.

Sure, it's a good idea to inform your bank if you're going to make purchases on foreign websites. Yes, occasionally a bank will decline a transaction suspecting fraud (happens to me occasionally at home, too) and in those cases yes always follow up with your bank. But that is not what is in play here. This is something different.

I've also had problems buying train or ferry tickets on line from the US with my Capital One card. (for the past two years)

The website thetrainline.com (same as thetrainline.eu) worked. They had the exact same schedules and prices as the national train websites (Germany, Spain, etc.).

Also I used an Andrews Federal Credit Union card and that worked with all the sites. AFCU was very popular a few years ago as they were the first to have a chip (few years before Capital One got one, they also have an actual Chip and Pin, not just Chip and Signature). You do not need to be an AFCU member to get a card.

Thanks again, everyone, especially David. Looks like we may be having more trouble in the future buying things online from Europe. This could be a real problem for those of us from the States who like to travel in Europe.

@David et al.: I totally understand what you are saying and I get the frustration of those whose cards never worked, I don’t know why my card worked after reading this post, and especially since I was buying TGV tickets exactly like the OP. So, I took a look I at my ticket receipt from 22 February 2019 (“Summary of your booking”) from merchant SNCF and it states; “Processed in 3D Secure mode” but right next to it is a box with icons that state “Verified by Visa” and “MasterCard Secure Code”. So, I suspect that 3D Secure recognized the approval by “Verified by Visa”. Perhaps the systems are now “talking” to each other? I can share a screen shot if it would help.

That is good to know that "Verified by Visa" and "MasterCard Secure Code" will work with 3D Secure.

I started to say "But I have Verified by Visa," then I remembered - not on this newer card.

Capital One hasn’t been an issue. It’s Bank of America I’ve had trouble with.

Just this morning I tried to use my #!# Cap1 card for Doges Palace Secret Itin tour, and of course it was rejected, but I did receive an alert notification from Cap1 asking if it was really me. I replied with their CONFIRM answer and received another response from Cap1 telling me to try it again. Ok I did. Failed again.

So I whip out my Chase United Airline Card and it goes through first time no problem.

Cap1 really does irritate me.

@Tim: If you see my above post, maybe the card that worked for you was "Verified by Visa" while the Cap1 card was not. You and I both used Chase credit cards in our successful transactions.

How David must feel reading this thread. Caïn by Henri Vidal, Tuileries Garden, Paris

David is absolutely right. I have been using my Capital One credit card booking museum tickets in Italy. There was once it was declined and I got a text asking me to accept or decline. Once I responded 'Yes' the charge went through when I tried again. But most time it just went through the first time..... until booking Vatican museums. I tried multiple times with Capital One and other credit cards, none of them work. I called Capital One and they didn't see any declined transactions as expected since I didn't get any alert. I bet those sites don't use "Verified by Visa".

I finally wrote to Vatican Museum stating the problem. That's when I learned about "Verified by Visa" program. But when I called the bank, none of the representatives have a clue. This is similar when I learn about "chip and pin" in most Europe and "chip and signature" in US. But we can at least make it work with debit card when there is no person on site to let us sign for the charge.

I just talked to Capital one Representative, they didn't know anything about "Verified by Visa" and just randomly transferred me to some travel emergency department. I have no clue how to proceed with this. How do I book the ticket online with no alternatives?

Cindy

I finally got it working....

I observe different behaviors when I used Visa and Master cards even when both failed. When you only see "Operation not complete", it probably doesn't reach the credit card processing as the banker couldn't find anything on their end. This happens to my multiple attempts on Visa credit and debit cards. However, when I use my Master card, it gave me a US 800 NUMBER to call. It was the fraud department of my bank. And this guy can see the failed transaction, the merchant's name and the amount. He did some magic and when I tried again, it WORKED!

So, Vatican may have issue with Visa cards this week (it may just be a temporary issue). But pay attention to the error message on the screen. Call the number it displays.

Hope this helps.
Cindy

Most of the reported problems the last two years have been with train tickets from the individual national train companies ( SNCF, BahnCard.de, OeBB, RENFE, Trenitalia, etc.). Other purchases on foreign websites often go through without issue, especially hotels ( when you pay in advance).

I will say that I successfully bought train tix from OeBB, Bahn.de, and SBB.ch using my AmEx card in 2018, and from U.K. Train companies in 2019. Apparently this card does have the 3-D Secure, or at least is recognized by it.

Ironically the AmEx card is rarely accepted when you are actually in Europe.

If you don't have an AmEx card ( or it doesn't work) try trainline.eu, at least for tix in France, Italy, Austria, and Germany.

Amex works because it is a Travel Card. not a Bank Card. It is a fine distinction, but different enough to dodge all the 3-D security requirements instituted in Europe. As said, this mostly effects demi-government institutions like national railway operators. Private companies seem to be able to live with the risk of bogus credit cards.

The last few purchases I've made, I've used the "Eno" feature with Cap One. It creates a "virtual" card so you don't have to put your real number out there. And it evidently comes with "verified by Visa." It wouldn't work for places like the Alhambra where you have to use the card you bought the tickets with to pick them up.