Price, Value and Value Judgements....

Well said Carol!

Thank you, Carol! My thoughts exactly.

I generally agree with your post regarding value judgments for some features of travel. For example, some people fly First Class or Business Class, pay the very significant cost increase because they can afford the extra cost and it has the value for them. Others, even though they have the funds to pay for higher class airfare, don't because they don't see the relative value to such an upgrade.
Still, I should be free to express my opinion on such an issue, without casting aspersions on the other person's opinion.

We upgraded to a suite on a cruise two years ago for the first time. The suite doubled our cabin space, as well as balcony and bathroom. Our bathroom had double sinks and a shower separate from a tub. Also, we had a wonderful butler assigned to our cabin. We got this upgrade for a 14 day cruise for only $800. This was only about 20 % of what the suite upgrade would have cost had we purchased it outright.
Still, when I posted my cruise review on cruise critic, I opined that we would still never pay for a suite, and perhaps not even a suite upgrade over a balcony. I outlined our opinion on this, but don't hold that this opinion applies to others.

Perhaps it is all in how one addresses their opinion on a forum like this. My opinion doesn't dictate to others, it simply provided my own.

well put all, especially Carol

I miss Ed's advice because he was so thrifty especially compared to the lady who used to post about having a private driver everywhere..... Lynn? It's hard to have your own priorities not influence your recommendations to others.

that is the Internet; don't put so much value into a free public forum on the Internet to the point of feeling distressed

I completely agree with Carol's main point, that "price" and "value" are different. I try to keep that in mind in my own posts and in reading other people's. I think most in this forum understand that difference and I don't see a lot of "judging" of others, at least among frequent posters. And when there is "judging" it isn't confined to cost issues, it can extend to other choices.

Ed's postings reflected frugality among other virtues, though his style could be refreshingly brusque (aka candid). One of his memorable posts discussed the second-guessing that sometimes happens here. It was along the lines of "Ask about the best train service to a city, get told to rent a car and drive," or "Ask about flights between A and B, get told to take the train," or "Ask about hotels in this neighborhood, get told it's the wrong neighborhood," or "Ask about best sights in Burgundy, get told to go to Provence." That's not exactly "judging," but it's not always helpful either. I try to avoid it and so, I think, do the more frequent posters here.

There is something to be said, however, for attempting to "inform" a person.

If you have not traveled much, you may be unaware that trains may be the best way to travel in Italy, for example. A poster is totally set on driving because they didn't know about Seat61 and had not done their due diligence in reading Europe Through the Back Door.

Sometimes the desire to impart wisdom may be oft putting to newbies.

I have learned a ton from the great members who post !

Great post Carol! I totally agree. Advice is one thing, but continually telling someone they made a mistake is not helpful!

There are a few topics such as Rail Passes that bring out strong emotions in some regulars on this board. I can see giving a newbee your opinion / advice, but it really is a matter of personal priorities and posters shouldn't be shamed for their choices:)

Hi,

Your point is well taken.

Amen, Carol. Advice without the snarkiness that often shows up here.

Carol,

Hear, hear! Advice yes. Judgements no. Hopefully I've not been judgmental myself.

Good points, all. One example of advice that can be misconstrued as "judgement": poster asks about night trains, loved taking them as a young backpacker; may not have traveled in Europe much since then and isn't aware of cheap flights.

Another wants to have a car in Firenze and Venezia, doesn't know about ZTLs and parking costs.

Then there's changing dollars for euro at the destination, feather than using an ATM card.

And I miss Ed, too.

Agree Carol. Most of the advice and suggestions I receive here helps make my trips better, for me and my traveling partners. Example, we were deciding between renting a car and trains for next summer and after advice, decided to train it. Someone pointed out not too much trunk space for 4 people's luggage, even carryon, I didn't think about that part.
When I answer a poster, I tell them we what did and how it worked for us. Sometimes advice for 2 travelers is not the same for 4 or more, like private drivers versus public transport or private group tours. But I always reiterate that point. We are by no means rich, but like others save during the year for our trips and are always looking for a bargain. I have been the recipient of snarky replies in the past that had gone totally off topic but I just ignore them and push ahead. Like other forum users, I appreciate the advice from my fellow travelers, you just have to decide which ones.

I still remember Ed's advice: "Travel as economically as possible, but if a problem arises, use money like a fire house. Soak it until the problem goes away."

Thanks, Carol. well said.

There is something to be said, however, for attempting to "inform" a person.

I agree, Carla, that we should attempt to inform of alternatives. So many people automatically think they have to rent a car, for example, or stay at a Marriott, they do not know the alternatives.

Spending time on the Appalachian Trail, we hikers tend to boil the sentiment down to, "hike your own hike."

Another wants to have a car in Firenze and Venezia, doesn't know about ZTLs and parking costs."

Actually, if you look at her few previous posts, she's a very experienced traveler who was looking at the many possible ways to solve a travel problem. She has four people, some inexperienced travelers, mobility impaired travelers, and people packing for a cruise. Like a good administrator, she looked at many possibilities and not only chose a good solution but evidently convinced the other ladies, all in their seventies, to store their baggage after the cruise and hop the train with only carry-ons for a girls excursion to Florence. No doubt many contributed ideas, but I think she knows what she's doing!

Carol,

Those are good points to keep in mind.

As others have mentioned, I also really miss Ed's succinct and entertaining posts. It would sure be nice if he could stop by the forum occasionally.

What’s distressing to me is when people come on a public forum, ask for advice and then continue on with their ridiculous plans.

Also distressing to me are people who expect experienced travelers to sit quietly and watch a person train wreck their trip.

Again, this is a public forum. Nothing is personal. We are not friends.

I miss my old mate too. Surely by now he is able to wear more than a speedo when whisking through the airport....

Bets, I was not referring to a particular poster. The questions about keeping a car in big cities comes up frequently.

Good to know, Zoe. It does indeed come up a lot.

I may be tone blind but I don’t see much that’s judgemental on the forum. If there’s a thread that’s off topic, argumentative and judgemental, perhaps pointing it out on the thread itself would be the most direct and useful. I find these sorts of generalized pleas, though heartful and well-intended, leave a lot of good people fretting over whether they have been unkind or nasty. Those who are nasty won’t get it. Oops— must be me as I don’t see much that’s distressing.

As for Ed, our wonderful pal would have blasted a few questioners out of the water. He didn't hold hands. Every once in a while a new poster would blast back at him accusing him of being mean and judgemental, inspiring a thread by a third person, just like this, asking people to be kind and understanding. But we loved him.
And FYI, he's doing fine. He just decided to "retire" one day.

I don't see that much snarkiness on this forum or perhaps I'm one of the main offenders and don't realise it!

I see nothing wrong with pointing out issues with itinerary's particularly when someone has asked for advice and it's clearly far too ambitious or nigh on impossible if the traveller wants at least some semblance of actually visiting a place. This is often born out of a lack of knowledge and appreciation of distances and obstacles involved in travelling, particularly in Europe.

What can be frustrating is when advice is sought and then disregarded because it doesn't fit in with the OP's mindset and I've seen plenty of examples of this. If you come here seeking advice then you need to be prepared to accept negative advice and conflicting opinions, it's all part and parcel of public forums.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm or withering wit, I get so tired of this current obsession with being offended over the most trivial of things I sometimes wonder how so many people have become so fragile and sensitive.

What’s distressing to me is when people come on a public forum, ask for advice and then continue on with their ridiculous plans.

Too true, Emily! I sometimes just drive on by the ones that insist on defying the advice they have come for. OTOH, at least we have tried to point out the flaws and perhaps the light will dawn on them when they are on their 4th 1-night stay and wondering where they are. Or have a car in Roma and cannot find parking.

In my experience, mostly on the Germany section, I see more example of people asking the OP what is important to them and tailoring answers to that then the "blast them out of the water" responses. I'd like to believe most people are pretty familiar with the level of discourse on the internet and have developed a thick skin to the occasional attack. As a forum the RS site is pretty tame compared with most of the internet and several times the OPs will post thanks for the helpful suggestions.

DJ

"I sometimes wonder how so many people have become so fragile and sensitive."

How dare you be insensitive to my sensitivity ;)

I also wonder whether there is a slight cultural angle to this point? Where I come from we speak fluent sarcasm with little offense intended or perceived!

Emma, how could you!

If there's one thing I'm sensitive about it's the use of American spelling by those who should know better. Tut Tut.