Preparing for a two month trip to Europe

Can you do justice to the four countries you mention in two months? I don't think so, but I think you can have a very good trip with time to do some of "the list" and a little time to wander and be surprised. You might try looking at the itineraries for some of the RS tours and see what a travel expert sets up for many people who are traveling to Europe for the first time. In two months, you can do four three-week tour-recommended trips (one for each country), plus have some time to explore things you are really interested in, or just to soak up the ambience. The biggest mistake I made in my first trips to Europe was trying to travel between lots of cities in a short amount of time.

Hi Elaine, I am sure you will get lots of different opinions but here is mine. I book flights first, about 11 months out (we use frequent flyer tickets and that is when they are available). Once I have those, I start looking into specific places we want to visit, based on travel times between, and events and activities we want to include (the last 2 trips I altered our original plan after I learned we could catch an opera in Verona and the Feria in Sevilla). Once I have a firm itinerary, I start reaearching accommodations. Generally I start reserving those about 6 months in advance for popular places. Then I figure out when advance-purchase train tickets are available to get the best prices on those. Generally it is 2 or 3 months in advance, dpeending on the country. We have achieved significant savings in our trips by using those instead of rail passes (except for Switzerland, where we use Swiss Flexi passes). You might list what countries you plan on visiting, and people can advise you whether rail passes are worth considering. We found that in Italy and Spain we did much better with the internet fares and advance purchase. In Italy, for xample you can sometimes find a 9 euro mini fare, which is less than the mandatory reservation fee for passholders on the ES trains.

Lola, you have been most helpful....thanks! The timeline is especially helpful. This will be my first time ever to Europe so I really need the advice. So far the plan is England, France, Spain, Italy....can we do justice to these countries in two months?

Elaine, I did a 6 week trip ( late Aug to early Oct, 2009) and here's the rough timeline I followed for booking things in advance: Flight - flew on Aeroplan points, booked in late January 2009 Eurail pass - purchased online around late June, early July, 2009 Hotels - booked all around April, 2009 Tours - never booked any tours in advance, but I had no absolutely must see tours that I wanted to see anyway... Given that you're travelling during peak season, whereas I was more shoulder season, I would certainly recommend giving yourself an additonal month or two, at least, for booking acommodations ( ie I'd have all accommodations booked by Jan, 2013 if it were me). That way you have a better chance of getting the best accommodations, best prices, and best locations.
Rail passes you should research to see what works best for you, and perhaps reserve some travel well in advance to get the discounts. Personally, I'd prefer the flexibility of a Global Eurailpass for that length of time, especially if I was doing a lot of train travel( eg day trips in addition to the moving from one home base to another, longer trips.

Elaine - I recommend reading Rick's Europe Through the Back Door since this is your first trip. It's a great resource and will answer many of your questions.

"The best time to buy a ticket is 6weeks in advance (not earlier than that (so, I heard)" I am afraid that is very bad advice. At least you admit it is hearsay. You cannot book anything else or make firm plans until you have your flights in place. also, waiting until late for high season tickets has been shown to be a very bad idea, especially now. What is left is bad flights on long routes with multiple stops. Cheap, maybe yes. But not good. From this area (Seattle-Vancouver) it is going to cost around $1200 to $1400 per person, round trip for decent flights in the summer. We much prefer direct flights to Europe and connections from there. I am not sure whch airlines fly from Vancouver direct to Europe besides Air Canada, but we can talk about that. From Seattle, it is British, Delta/KLM, Lufthansa, and Iceland Air (with a stop in Iceland). Prices for these flights remain pretty stable and do not go on sale for summer travel. At least not that I have seen in some 18 years of flying to Europe from here. In two months you can see many of the highlights of the four countries you mention. Not the whole country, but enough to see a good sampling. Hey, I've spent 8 weeks in Switzerland alone and still haven't seen the whole country. But we have made very rrewarding two-week trips to individual countries like Italy or Spain and we saw and did a lot. To maximize your time, avoid backpacktracking. Fly into London to start, and after visitn the UK, take the train to Paris to start your France visit. work you way south to Spain (you may want to limit your visit to the northwest coast, madrid and Barcelona due to heat), and then across southern France to italy. Fly home from Rome or another airport in Italy.

Paul, if they bought tickets today, into London July 1 and out of Rome August 31 as suggested, the lowest fare I see (with one stop in each direction) is $1620. I am pretty sure they would have paid the same or less had they bought the tickets four to six months ago, and they would in the meantime have been able to make their other plans, including booking the most desirable accommodations, and booking Eurostar tickets London to Paris at the best price, which appears 120 days ahead of travel. Then there are the savings on Trenitalia tickets by booking mini fares 90 days in advance. With careful planning, one can save hundreds of dollars on the train tickets. I find it much better to concentrate on savings there rather than gamble on airfares. If that price goes down significantly in 2 weeks as you predict, I'll buy you a beer. As I said at the beginning, we get tickets as early as we do because we use FF miles. But I have monitored the price of those tickets just for fun, and for the flights I have booked, they have only gone up as the travel date approached, with the significant increase in the last couple of months. The Pacific Northwest is a special market with limited flights, assuming one wants reasonable flight times and only one stopover. If you are willing to take a 20+-hour flight with 2 stops on the way, you might do better, but you'll arrive exhausted. And even then, the lowest price I saw for the above itinerary, bookied today, was $1608.

So I just checked prices on the actual flights from our last high season trip. This was on British, flying Seattle to Zurich in late June/earlyJuly. Price when I obtained the tickets was $1320. By the time we were a month out from the flight, the price had gone up to $1750. This year, I don't know where the tickets for the same dates started, but to buy them today, exactly 6 weeks ahead of the flight, would cost $2014!!! That is for economy class. Anyone who waited to buy would be pretty dismayed at that price.

I totally agree with Lola to buy your plane tickets as far in advance as possible. We did that for 5 trips (between 2001 and 2008), then for our 6th trip (2010) we listened to the very bad advice from some on this Helpline to wait until 6-8 wks before. We paid $600 more per ticket by doing that. Never again. Lola is absolutely right imo.

elaine, That's about the worst time to travel in Europe, but if it's the only time you have, you'll have to make the best of it. As you haven't been to Europe before, I would highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door to begin with. Use the country or city-specific Guidebooks to plan sightseeing, hotels and local transportation in each location. For travel in July / August 2013, I'd start looking at flights perhaps in December or early in the new year. Booking at least six months from the travel date would be a good idea. Flights from YVR tend to be a bit more expensive, which is why so many people from the lower mainland are heading to Bellingham lately. However, it's likely the best option for flights to Europe. Another option would be to fly Abbotsford - Calgary (WestJet) and then depart Calgary for the trip to Europe. I'd suggest using "open jaw" flights if at all possible, as that's usually a more efficient travel method. Yes, you should be able to see lots in England, France, Spain, Italy in two months. Which places / cities in each country are you interested in? I wouldn't normally recommend this for a first trip, but one suggestion you might consider would be to start in Italy in July. There will be a bit more "culture shock" as opposed to starting in the U.K. but there are a few advantages to that approach. Many Italians take their holidays in August, so it may be a good idea to start with Italy before "peak season" hits there. It will likely still be hot and crowded, but not as bad as in August. From there you could fly to Spain via budget air, then north to France and then end in the U.K. Just a thought...... Good luck with your planning!

elaine, A few more thoughts..... You won't be able to start thinking about Railpasses until you have a list of cities to work with. When booking Hotels, you'll need to start at least six months out, depending on country. There are lots of good and reliable Hotels listed in the Guidebooks, along with web links. Could you elaborate on what type of "tours" you're referring to? If your budget will allow, you could also consider a combination of one of the Rick Steves tours (perhaps the 14-day "Best of Europe"), along with some self-guided travel. That's what I normally do, and it's been a great combination for me! Cheers!

A third recommendation that you get Europe Through The Back Door ASAP and use it to learn the "nuts and bolts" of European travel. Airfare this year have been different from earlier years. In the past, the best Transatlantic deals were often 2 months or so before travel. Now planes are fuller and so the airlines are discounting less, and people are reporting lower fares by booking 4 or more months in advance. My advice: start monitoring the route(s) your are interested in NOW. Check every day or two, so you'll know the "standard" rates. When you see a reduction, you will be ready to pounce; these reductions can last for much less than a day, so you won't always have time to double-check (with your partner, or with other routes) before they're gone. I use www.kayak.com and matrix.itasoftware.com to look, but then book directly on the airline's website. For greatest efficiency, you will usually want to fly open jaw (called "multi-city" on most websites) - into one city and out of another. Even if it's "more expensive" than a roundtrip, you save both time and money by not backtracking. I do want to offer somewhat contrary advice about accommodations. Some famous places do book up way in advance, but even in August, you will find rooms by looking 2 months or so in advance. However, if you do have your heart set on a particular place or special room (such as a room with an ocean view), book as early as possible. For example in Venice, La Calcina is recommended in every book (including Rick Steves) and has been for over 20 years, as it offers nice rooms in a good location at a very good price. Getting a room there requires either a very early booking, or very good luck. Continued...

Continued.. My hierarchy for planning: 1. Figure out where you want to go. Remember that when you change cities, you lose at least a half day (packing, checking out, getting to train station or airport, travel time, getting to new hotel, checking in and unpacking). If you're going further, you can take almost a whole day. Also allow some "slack" days for resting, doing laundry, etc, or else your trip can become an endurance test. 2. Look for airfares, and use this to plan your rough itinerary. Remember, it can be cheaper to reverse an itinerary (for example, into Rome and out of Paris may be cheaper than into Paris and out of Rome). Don't fall into the trap of just getting the cheapest airfare, though - make sure you want to go there, or near there. For example, Frankfurt often has cheap fares - fine for a trip to Germany, but a false economy for a trip to Rome. 3. Once you've figured out what cities you're visiting, figure out transit between them. These days, both trains and planes booked far in advance will often be cheaper than a railpass, but it depends on the route and the country. If you're going to more than one country, it gets more complicated, requiring more planning. 4. Once you know when you will be in each city, then you can book hotels. 5. If by "tours" you mean within a city, these often need no booking at all. However, if you want a private guide, or something with limited numbers (like the Galleria Borghese in Rome, or the Last Supper in Milan), you must book ahead. Rick Steves books for each country have more detail on these matters than any other guidebook I've seen, so consult the most recent edition and any updates on this website for details. Happy planning!

Thank you everyone for all your great advice on travel planning!!! I can't believe all the wonderful responses. This is very helpful.
Elaine

Rail passes are more hassle and poorer value than they used to be because of supplementary charges for fast trains and the availability of very cheap fares for long-distance trains if booked well in advance. Try and sort out your broad itinerary quickly and then check for cheap long-distance train fares to compare price to rail passes. However, two things to note about the cheap rail fares: 1) They are strictly limited to specific departure times: if you miss the train you booked you will usually have to pay full-fare again. So it may be a bad idea if you want to fly into Europe and take a long-distance train somewhere else the same day. 2) They usually become available 90-120 days in advance, and the fare will not drop again closer to the date like sometimes happens with air. So you need to start looking now.

Paul's advice to buy 6 weeks ahead sounds like that other guy who used to advise buying 2 months in advance. I followed his advice when I was new here and it cost my family an extra $1200 for our tickets. Did you even READ that article Paul? It says the flights they analyzed for the study were all WITHIN the US. Not to Europe. And the study did NOT include tickets bought directly from the airline, and people here advise buying from the airline. So that article is irrelevant and you should be more careful posting things like that. And I disagree with Ken that July and August are the worst time to go to Europe. We go then with our kids and have a great time. Yes prices are a bit higher and you have to book early to get the best accommodations, but some places are going to have lots of tourists no matter when you go, and many places are at their best in summer.

Interesting point, Sasha. I wondered where he got that "six weeks" idea. Elaine, you can get lots and lots of help here, as well as on other forums like Tripadvisor. Another good resource is the Rick Steves Travel Store in Edmonds. They have a large travel library and you can watch the travel shows or rent them to watch at home. And they have classes every Saturday. http://www.ricksteves.com/about/travelcenter.htm And if you and your partner want to make a weekend trip in September, you could join the "Seattle group" meeting as we will be meeting at the Rick Steves travel store on Saturday September 15 at 10 am. This is just a small (5 or 6 people) informal group of people who post on this board; we meet occasionally and talk about travel and help newcomers learn to use the train websites and other resources. You could come to the meeting and then go to the noon class if it interests you.

@Sasha, When I mentioned that July and August are the worst months for travel in Europe, I was referring mostly to the heat (especially in the southern countries) and the crowds (which means that Hotel vacancies are sometimes "scarce"). Although my days of travelling with children are long over, I do appreciate that for some this is the only time they can travel, so have to make the best of it. Cheers!

Elaine, I travel in July and August, although most recently it has been June and July. Yes, that unpleasant heat factor is something to contend with....that oppressive, beaming heat in Paris (sometimes) and Vienna. The advantage is if you don't mind the crowds (crowds don't bother me), some hotels in Paris and in Germany and Austria do reduce their rates in July and August especially, compared to what they charge in May or mid- Sept. it's a marked difference. I've experienced this. If you do decide on a rail Pass, keep in mind that it has be validated within 6 months of your purchase date. The earlier you buy it the cheaper it is in $. Say, you check on the price of a specific Pass on 15 Jan 2013. Note that price. Come back and do the same by 15 Feb. and you can be sure that the earlier price you saw has now been increased. Better decide and book then.

Hello Elaine, I started planning and booking my 2 month trip (July/Aug 2010) in the fall of 2009. I literally spent time every day going over fly vs. train for certain legs of my trip, reading from the RS books, etc. When you come across a bargain, grab it. I have to tell of one LUCKY day I had while I was planning. I needed to get from Berlin to Copenhagen and it was going to be a very long and expensive train ride, (also would lose a touring day) so I decided to keep my eye out for a cheap flight. I found a 1 (yes, one!!) euro seat sale on Easy Jet that got me there in a jiffy. I hope other travellers come across those deals too.

Ken, I just think you make someone feel bad when you say July and August are the "worst" time to go. You could issue a gentle warning about heat, etc. But if that is the only time they can go then it is the best. It is mot any hotter than parts of the US or Canada, and the millions of people who live in Europe deal with it just fine. Tourists can too. Book places with AC, walk in the shade, take long lazy lunch breaks, hit museums with AC in the afternoon, and look forward to dinner al fresco on a beautiful square. That is one of the many pleasures of Europe and you can't do that in the winter! As for hotel rooms being scarce, yes if you wait too long to book. Reserve early and you will get what you want. I might avoid Andalucia, the far south of Italy, and Venice in August, but otherwise it's all doable. And I have to question Fred's advise about buying rail passes early cuz the prices go up as you get closer to travel time. Never heard that before and I don't think it's true. But it may be moot as Elaine may do better with discount tickets bought in advance. Those prices definitely do go up. The best deals are 120, 90 or 60 days in advance depending on the country. Especially the Eurostar from London to Paris, buy 120 days ahead.

@Sasha, It's certainly not my intent to make anyone "feel bad". I clarified my concerns in the second reply to indicate that I was referring to the heat and crowds. I also mentioned that I realize that's the only time available for some people to travel, so they'll have to make the best of the situation. Yes, it is possible to deal with the heat to some extent by using the techniques you mentioned. In addition to the Hotel vacancy problem for those that book late, another aspect of the crowds is that many popular sights have HUGE queues in the summer months. Some examples would be the Colosseum or Vatican in Rome or various sights in Paris. The crowds can also be an issue when travelling in "shoulder seasons", but that's generally not as severe as in the summer. I simply wanted to mention those aspects of summer travel, in case the OP wasn't aware of them. I don't feel that the terminology I used was especially harsh, so hopefully my comments didn't make anyone "feel bad". Cheers!

If you can only go during the summer (or if that just works better for you), you can make this work to your advantage by going to Scandinavia. The days are longest then, the weather is best (it never gets really "hot" but it is at its warmest then, and there is a low chance of rain). Plus, those countries don't get the mobs that places like Paris and Rome do. I usually take spring and fall trips, but rearranged my schedule one year to go to Finland, Sweden, and Norway in the summer, and was very glad I did it then. One thing to be aware of, Elaine, is that the Scandinavian countries (especially Norway) are EXPENSIVE. If you're going, it's imperative to use Rick's books to learn of the deals (like the Stockholm a la Carte and the Oslo Card, which saved me a fortune).

elaine,,I usually book my airfare for July /August( which is when I usually go,,but not always,, as an aside, I find it not much different from June or September anyways) in january or early feb. I used to fly Zoom or Aircanada, but since Zoom went under I fly Aircanada or Airtransat. Airtransat usually has better prices for open jaws,,so lately have used them more often. Have used Britishairways once,, too expensive and absolutely just as crappy as any other airline, lol . I like to get my airfare pinned down, then I can work on a rough plan,, start booking hotels( I have them booked by late march usually), and I always book with hotels that have easy cancellation policies, so I can, and do change them if I find a better deal in months up to trip. I had one place for this August booked for 110 euros,found another for 98, and then one for 78,, and I had stayed at two of these three hotels, so it was great to cancel the more expensive one and switch to the cheaper one. I always get a hotel with a/c. Train tickets are a bit harder, many do not realease the tickets for sale untill 90-120 days in advance, and the point to point tickets do start out really cheap and go up closer to date. I have first class Paris to Nice for 40 euros this July, and from Amsterdam to Paris , second class for 38 euros. I also use inter europeon flights. Flying from Barcelona to Paris for a total,, all in, for two people of 97 euros, in August,, I booked those tickets about 2 months ago,, now they are up over 70 euros each!!( and thats without the all in part, taxes etc)!! Glad I booked well in advance. I am using Easyjet and Vueling this year. Beware that Ryanair uses airports that are often quite far out from destination city so higher cost to get to airports,, for instance they use Beauvais for Paris ,, and that airport is 90 kms from Paris, and has no direct train service!

I guess I'm in the minority here. I block out my itinerary and then look at airline tickets. I can then tweak the itinerary to get a better flight fare. Once you have the flights you are pretty much locked into an itinerary. I've never done enough traveling in Europe to look into rail passes, but from the bits I've read here over the years they are often more costly than point-to-point tickets, especially if you are traveling through Italy. I have bought quite cheap train tickets on major routes by grabbing them when they first go on sale, usually 120 or 90 days in advance - depending on the route. For instance I bought a Eurostar ticket from London to Brussels for $65 (non-exchangeable, non-refundable) and the regular fare is $218. 6 months in advance is usually a good rule for hotels in Europe. While most hotels still don't have a penalty for cancellations, more and more are offering a discount for prepayment without a cancellation option.

Hi, As part of the literature you are reading to prepare and decide for this trip, I suggest Rough Guide Europe or its individual country volumes and Let's Go. Both include accomodation suggestions ranging from budget to moderate.