Pre-Tour Itinerary, Austria, Germany, Czech Rep, Poland

Jane, just a thought. You might be going through Warsaw on your itinerary on the way to Krakow. You could see the excellent museum of the Warsaw Rising, the Holocaust Museum and memorials, remains of the Jewish ghetto, and places where Hitler made speeches, SS staff were housed, etc. are all there. But to tie it to your Italy visit, there is also a monument to the battle of Monte Cassino and the Polish troops who captured the hill there.

Its also a lively and modern city, with a tourist friendly walking zone that is as nice as any I've been to.

Thanks Stan. We had considered Warsaw, but removed it from our wish list simply because we thought it a bit too ambitious for the period we have allotted ourselves. We would certainly like to go there for all the reasons you have mentioned and so will see if we can work it in as we develop our itinerary. All things WW2 are extremely interesting to us. My Dad fought in Italy from November 43 to March 45, the reason behind our battlefield tour in October. Thanks so much for your suggestion.

Don't get too tied to the Eurail Global pass idea until the trip plan is more firm. So far you've suggested roughly 7 train connections touching 5 countries and most are relatively cheap, aside from a long trip to Rome, if you do that all in one day. A cheaper pass option that would cover only part of the trip is a European East pass but unfortunately Poland is no longer part of that, so there's a "hole in the middle."

If you are going to pre-book a rental car in Austria, three days will usually cost the same as one day, and I would pick it up in Vienna and drop it in Salzburg or Innsbruck. Then cheap train to Munich, then fly to Rome (see www.skyscanner.com). This cuts several days of train travel and the remaining plan would not warrant a rail pass.

Closer to your travel dates (starting 3 months out) you could lock in advance-discount tickets on a couple of trains, such as Berlin-Prague, although full fare there is only $75 in 2nd class. How to Look Up Train Schedules and Routes Online gives you the DB train schedule link and tips for using it; it also sells tickets touching Germany, Salzburg, and Innsbruck.

Really great info Laura. This is the kind of thing we wondered about, and will be able to focus on as we get our itinerary nailed down. Thanks very much!!

Jane -

Since you mention that one of the cities you will be going to is Krakow, and because of your WWII interest, I wanted to let you know that there is an excellent museum of "Krakow in WWII" (not the actual museum name, which I forget) available in the old Schindler factory (of the movie "Schindler's List" fame) available. My sister and I spent an enjoyable, and extremely educational, 90 minutes there a couple of years back. I also agree that Warsaw has some excellent museums focusing on your areas of interest that really should not be missed if you are in that city.

Thanks for this Jack. We will make every effort to work it into our itinerary. The story of Oscar Schindler is a very powerful one, and it would be a tremendous experience to visit his factory and learn more of this amazing story. Much appreciated.

Hi,

I'll comment about the WW2 sites not mentioned in Warsaw and Krakow if you have to visit them. In Krakow is the monument to Katyn forest. You'll see it's a tall cross against a wall with "Katyn" above it, very striking and poignant. There is also a Katyn memorial in Warsaw in the central area. In 2001 I saw both of these. Aside from those museums mentioned above pertaining to WW2 there also the Polish Military/Army Museum in Warsaw. The same in Prague..the Military History Museum.

Depending on your priorities and time constraint, there are numerous war sites in the greater Berlin and Potsdam area, ie, military cemeteries, battlefield memorials and museums, both on WW1 and 2., just to start off. If you're going to Vienna in connection to WW1, I heartily recommend the new and expanded WW1 exhibit at the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum), if you have a good reading level of German, reading the realia exhibited makes the information more striking.

Thanks very much for this Fred. Time constraints will certainly determine how many WW1 and WW2 sites we will be able to visit. I think this leg of the trip - Germany to Rome, while we want to visit some of the more well known locations of WW1 and WW2, our focus will be on the landscape, the people, the architecture of that beautiful part of the world. So much to see ... Thanks again for your suggestions. The more information we have, the easier it will be to plan this amazing adventure.

@ Jane...You're very welcome. How true it is that there is so much to see! In Vienna there is also the Zentral Friedhof (main/central cemetery) where not only the graves of the famous composers (Schuber, Strauss, Mozart, etc) can be seen but also the WW1 and WW2 sections. The WW1 section is located in the back, more of a walk to reach it.

Hi folks. A quick update. We are booked to fly into Prague on September 23, 2016, touring on our own for a few days, taking the train to Vienna on September 26th. Two days tour in Vienna, and then we pick up our rental car on September 28th. For the two weeks that we are in Austria, Germany, we are looking at the following as a loose itinerary; Vienna, Krems, Melk, Hallstat, Salzburg, Berchtesgaden, Munich, Garmich, Hohenschwangau, Fussen, Lindau, Schwartzwald (Black Forest), Wengen, Rothenberg, and back to Vienna, in time to catch a flight on October 12th to Rome, where we will hook up with our Battlefield Tour group for a 16 day battlefield tour. Much of our time with the tour group is in place, so I am just wondering if you could help us out with our time in Austria, Germany. Rick's guidebook has great suggestions, as does Viator. There is a lot to see, and we would appreciate input from this forum on the highlights, the 'must see'. We enjoy history, old buildings, scenery, meeting people off the beaten path. We are open to bike tours or biking on our own, hiking. Thanks your help.

@ Jane..."...November 1943 to March '45." What was your father's unit? His Division?

Hi Fred. My Dad was with the 1st Canadian Infantry Division, 4th Field Company of Engineers. They were tied to the 3rd Canadian Infantry Brigade (Carleton and York, West Nova Scotia Regiment, Royal 22nd [Van Doos]). As I indicated, when we get to Italy we are hooking up with our battlefield tour group with LIberation Tours, who have a full itinerary planned for us. My Dad would have seen action in the battle of Ortona, Liri Valley (Hitler Line), as well as the Gothic Line to the north of Ortona. We are travelling to Prague, Austria, Germany for two weeks prior to hooking up with our tour in Rome, and it is these two weeks that I am trying to nail down with suggestions from the forum.

@ Jane...Thanks so much for the info on your father's outfit. Did he end up in Holland by March 1945? The Canadian role in Italy I am admittedly not too acquainted, ie, more like not acquainted at all. Allow me another question on that tour. Is Monte Casino part of the tour?

Yes to both questions Fred. We will be visiting the Abby at Monte Cassino, key locations in the Liri Valley (Aquino, Pontecorvo, etc.) culminating in a visit to the Cassino Commonwealth war cemetery. My Dad was transferred with the 1st Canadian Army to NW Europe in March of 45, but it was towards the end of the war, and so much of his work as a Sapper was in construction, road and canal work, bridge repair in the area of Zutphen and Deventer. The Canadians also provided aid to the people of Holland, who were literally starving. It will be a very emotional journey for me - I am hoping to visit some of the areas where my Dad saw action; Ortona, Liri Valley (Hitler Line), Ravenna (Gothic Line). I feel woefully inadequate in terms of my knowledge of the Canadian experience in Italy, just understanding the Divisions, regiments, etc., is a challenge. Mark Zuehlke's books have been an extremely valuable tool in helping me to understand the Canadian experience in Sicily and Italy; Ortona, the Liri Valley, the Gothic Line, Operation Husky. Well worth buying if you are interested in the Canadian role in those regions. Cheers!!

@ Jane...Thanks for the very interesting info. You might want to contact the "Canadian War Museum" in Ottawa to see what suggestions can be offered, such as looking at the Canadian Official History. If you want to read a critical historical analysis of the Italian campaign and Allied generalship, see JFC Fuller's "The Second World War: A Strategical and Tactical Study" Read the pages listed in the Index under FM Alexander.

Thanks for the info Fred. Yes, the Canadian War Museum is a tremendous source of information which we have tapped into over the past few years, and have a copy of the Regimental History of the Canadians in Italy 39-45. Will check out Fuller's book as well, thanks for the heads up. Cheers!

@ Jane....You're welcome. You could check at the main public library, or better still, if you're close to a university library, to look up extensive works (thick books!) on the last years of WW2 ('44-'45), secondary sources by A. Beevor, M. Hastings, J. Keegan, R. Atkinson (his 3rd vol in the trilogy), B Liddell Hart, And, most definitely, FM Alexander's "Memoirs" You've done that already. But, mostly likely, the :Canadian War Museum would have the best pertinent advice.