Post trip blues

Haribo gummies? I concur. Try Albanese.

My perspective is somewhat different. I thought the food in France and Germany from my May trip was fairly pricey; not inexpensive at all. The price of a glass of wine was about the same as in the states. Some places were, but not most. I also think it’s easy to say the quality of life is better overall when you’re only visiting for a few weeks and only taking a few aspects into consideration.

I will say that on my last few visits to Spain prices for food and beverages were less expensive, so I guess it’s all a matter where you go. Generally, I think most European restaurants use fresher ingredients with significantly less sodium.

Keep on planning and saving your money. Travel is always an experience. Glad you had a wonderful trip.

I do like Albanese gummies, but my wife prefers Haribo’s.

We had gummy bears in Palermo made from Aperol and also from Prosecco!
Given out after dinner in an organic food restaurant.

Well, come to. Texas for barbecue, steak, Mexican or Southern, the latter being incredibly delicious but oh so unhealthy.

I am from Boston. Have you tried the clam chowder or lobster roll? Great Italian in the North End, And terrific fish on the wharf. Been to Quincy Market?

I have lived in San Francisco. Talk about Asian!

I am going to Europe for the second time October 2023. I will be more alert when I eat and compare food

I was in Copenhagen in 2019 and unfortunately could not afford the better restaurants. I was eating at
less expensive buffets that were ok but you had to buy an expensive drink to get the buffet.. I did not realize this and was ordering a glass of water. but getting charged same price as an alcoholic beverage.

I did a walking tour of Old Town in Sweden and the tour guide took us to a Sports Bar where we had hamburgers or sandwiches. it was a very limited menu and very expensive.

Hopefully life is always kind of magical when we are traveling but then we come home to the real world.

Start posting pictures of your trip and planning the next one.

I thought the food in France and Germany from my May trip was fairly
pricey; not inexpensive at all.

1. Were you looking at the whole price. In the U.S., start with the menu price, then ad at least 30%, 10% for tax and 20% for a tip. In Germany every menu I've seen had the final price. VAT and Service are included in the price.

2. And, what were you ordering. Pork is a big part of German cuisine, and I find Schnitzel, for the most part, to be reasonable, as are Würst (sausages). Beef is more expensive in Germany than it is here. Demand a steak, and you'll pay a lot.

3. Compare the places you go to eat in Germany to where you eat here. Restaurants in pricey multi-star intercontinental hotels are likely to have higher prices than your local establishment. Compare apples to apples.

For years I've kept a detailed account of what I spend on everything when I travel in Europe (mostly Germany), and I can pretty much count on lunch and dinner together averaging about 20€/day (breakfast, of course, is always included in my overnight stay, so I don't count it.).

I end up with similar feelings after an enjoyable trip, t4f. I try to keep in mind that my experiences in Europe were very carefully selected TRAVEL experiences that kept me far, far away from the familiarity, relative monotony, and burdens of everyday life back home.

No one's home country stands up well in post-travel comparisons. I used to be involved with Europeans studying and traveling in the USA for periods of 1-3 months. Most of the letters (remember letters?) I received were full of separation Angst - oh, how confining and dull their lives were back in Europe, oh how they longed for the American lifestyle they had enjoyed so much and sadly had to leave behind.

travel4fun, 100% agree with all you wrote and i go through withdrawal & depression every year when i come back to my life here. Yes, vacations make it seem ideal but i’ve lived in Paris for years and i do think even every day life in most of France, western Europe, Great Britain is a better quality of life for all the reasons you listed. Trains and public transportation alone makes it better. Then the food, bakeries, health care cost, prescriptions cost, etc adds to the better quality list.

Ugh. I worry about this. At the end of our last trip which was 3 weeks, I didn't want to come home. So this trip is going to be 4 weeks but I'm afraid I still won't want to come home.

As German with seven journeys to very different parts of the US I can understand the perceived gap around food. I am always happy to be back because imo a lot of food in the US has simply no substance. You can eat it and stay hungry; flavors taste artificially are just added and do not come from real ingredients.

Also simple water tastes extremely differently which is a base for cooking and food - tap water containing fluoride. The best tasting water I found in Norway in Voss region. They also bottle and sell it but there you can stop at every small waterfall from a mountain or drink from the tap.

And in Germany there is one level of quality and taste even more behind it. Most food that tourists get in Germany is still not the peak of taste, especially if it comes to bread, cheese, meat and agricultural products. There are a lot of products which do not reach the supermarkets or restaurants. As friend of a country-side veterinarian in Lower Saxony I was lucky to participate in the products he got directly from his customers: farmers. The quality is incredible and somehow reserved to their local customers - and their best products for their friends. I am always happy when he and his wife send a special smoked pork sausage (Rauch-Mettwurst) which is so tasty that I cannot describe it.

A famous example are seldom fruit sorts from Altes Land (region close to Hamburg). Do not look at the form or color of the food like apples, just taste them and all supermarket apples disappear in a 2nd or 3rd league of natural taste.

I also lived some years in a small town in North Germany and the local bakery was so good that some customers drove up to 30 miles one way to buy bread for their families or a festivity. It was an incredible quality and you can smell the flavor and quality when you walk into their store.

btw. Today I had lunch at a butchery around the corner; 7.50 Euro for a Schnitzel Cordon Bleu with potatoes and vegetables. It was really good (like made by Mutti) and so substantial that I did not eat up everything. This price is what US chains take for (what they call) a burger without any fries or vegetables - and after this I do not feel saturated.

I feel your pain, travel4fun. For about 10,000 reasons, I never want to come home. If Schengen didn't exist, I wouldn't.

I get it. There are many reasons I'm proud to be an American, but I've always felt more European in many ways. There are too many aspects of American living that have never interested me at all, such as large vehicles, driving everywhere, country music, football - especially college football. As far as food though, I will say that your mileage may vary depending on where in the U.S. you live. I grew up in the Northeast and I still think the food there is generally great, especially in New York City, Boston, and the best pizza in the country is in New Haven CT, seriously. I live in Seattle now and find the food here to generally be bad. Same across the Pacific Northwest, actually. Also, you haven't had a pretzel until you've had one in Amish country in PA!

But yeah, I think half the world would try to live in Europe if it were that easy.

I totally get it. I always get a touch of the post vacation blues. I make sure there is always another trip in the not too distant future. I’m not happy unless I have deposits on several trips!

Hi,

Totally agree with the post-trip blues.

I am having that now. Since I used up only just under half my Schengen allowable days, plans are underway now for a return in a few weeks. Why the extra planning? To avoid the negligent mistakes made on this last trip due to sloppy planning.

I don't find the food in Germany to be markedly expensive, relative to what I saw 5 years ago, neither is buying the wine in France, if one's focus in wine is French wine. True, the food is better there in Germany and France, generally.

In Sorrento and Rome in April I found food prices to be comparable to home after conversion; which was similar from past trips, but the drink prices had gone way up. I was paying on average €8-10 for a beer and my wife stopped with the rum and coke and stuck to water after paying €16.

And gelato, every place we tried, the going rate seemed to be €8 for 2 scoops.

There are many things I love about Europe--cities that work, train travel, the architecture, the history, the arts. But for me, food is not on the list. And I certainly do not go to Germany for the food.

And can I offer a defense of American cuisine and food? Yes, we have plenty of chain restaurants with the quality ranging from good to appalling. And some areas and cities score higher in the quality of restaurants, the number of quality restaurants, and the overall quality of food than others do. But I actually think there are very few countries in Europe--for me, Italy is the one that quickly comes to mind--that compare to the United States in dining and the food experience. And again overall, the countries of northern Europe do not come close.

Is the food in Barcelona, Madrid, Copenhagen, Stockholm, London, Berlin, Edinburgh, Vienna, Munich, Helsinki, Amsterdam, Brussels, and Frankfurt better than--or even as good as--the food in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington, Santa Fe, New Orleans, Boston, and Charleston (and for those with big bucks who like fine dining, Las Vegas probably belongs on the list)? In each of the European cities I listed, there are obviously great restaurants. But outside of Italy and Lyon, is there a European city the size of Charleston where the food is as good as Charleston's?

The Atlantic and Gulf coasts offer an an abundance of fresh seafood. And then there are the many regional specialties such as barbeque. For great food at reasonable prices, simply drive down the Atlantic coast from North Carolina to Savannah or the Gulf Coast from Florida to New Orleans or I'm sure down the New England coast.

I never get the blues since I have a great job with 5 weeks vacation a year that can be carried over to 10 weeks maximum, live in great city with European style mom and pop cafes, great transportation, great museums, direct flights to most European capitols.

Yes you either need to get a better job making more money or hit the lottery to afford the good stuff here in the USA. But, are you sure your blues it is not related to living in Bend, Oregon, where the average house is $800k.

The USA is all about profit when it comes to the goods you like. Starbucks for example was basically a European style cafe when it opened years ago, where everything was fresh. Now the pastry sandwich stuff has more artificial sweeteners (cheaper than real sugar) and preservatives to extend shelf life. They might even be making that food in China.

This is why Whole Foods (which aims to sell fresh stuff with not whole bunch of added ingredients) is referred to here as Whole Paycheck.

I get the post trip blahs. Suffering right now…..

I don’t think it’s because I think Europe is better - I think it is me that is better when I travel.

I understand the post-trip blues, especially the food thing. You're in Bend which isn't probably the best place to compare to metropolitan Europe (note: I love Bend). We live in a control state, so hard alcohol is simply more expensive on average. And unfortunately the cost of just about everything, particularly food, is even higher due to your location (again, not dissing Bend).

It might take some work, but you can find good local foods that are just as good and fresh as in Europe. You've got a farmers market (I noticed there is bread from Sparrow Bakery, yum) and I'm sure Market of Choice or Freddies has Oregon cheese (Rogue Creamery!) and meats (Olympic Provisions!). And you have a million really great locally brewed beer choices. I personally subscribe to a farm CSA so I get fresh organic veggies every week. I even found a local olive oil producer that makes a pretty decent product (Durant Olive Mill). My point is you can find high quality ingredients just like Europe, it just may be you have to do the work yourself instead of looking for it in retail establishments.

Good luck finding good gummy bears though, I'd avoid the ones from the green cross establishments :)

I feel your pain. We were fortunate to have two trips last year. The first one was a 6 week trip to Germany, Belgium, France and the Netherlands and then a 10 week trip to Ireland, Scotland, England and France. I wasn’t ready to come home from either one. I generally concur that the food, etc. is better in Europe. Some things don’t compare though. My German cousin came here last summer and when we went to the grocery store I bought a watermelon. She couldn’t stop raving about how delicious it was and how she had never tasted anything like it before. She described the watermelon in Germany as tasting like tasteless water. She went home and raved about it to her now 5 year old twin sons. The entire family came from Germany in February for their father’s funeral and she wanted the kids to taste the delicious watermelon. Thankfully I couldn’t find any that time of year because they would have been disappointed. I’m lucky to live in California with a nice variety of fresh fruits and veggies, but overall, in my experience, food is better in Europe.

Yes, I do understand the post-trip blues. I come home thinking I will walk everywhere, stroll in the evenings, eat dinner outdoors, etc. Morning comes, and there’s no European breakfast waiting for me in our kitchen - LOL!

I usually start thinking about a next trip location to ease back into normal life. (I’ve been home a month and already have May 2024’s calendar started in my home office with some initial ideas of Post-Its for each day’s location.). And then I reflect on all of the wonderful moments of the recent trip, and I’m fine again.

One thing that really helps me is incorporating something I did or learned in Europe. For instance, I love taking cooking classes. Two days ago, I had a group of ladies at my home, and I demonstrated how to make homemade pasta, they brought sides, and we had a wonderful Italian meal. (A farmer’s market, Cento tomato paste, wine, truffles, and “00” flour - can be purchased on-line, are a good start.)

Jazz+Travels, Yes, part of the frustration does come from living in Bend. We’ve been here almost 20 years, and it’s turned into a version of a Vail or Aspen: where “normal” people can’t afford to live. The remaining people are expected to pay through the nose for anything and everything.

If I still lived in San Diego, my frustrations would be even greater, I’m sure. The quality of life is far worse there for many reasons aside from food.

We’re not “normal” since my husband and I have very good jobs and, more importantly, a reasonable mortgage. So in comparison with most, we can “afford” to go searching for those quality ingredients, and pay 3-4 times “normal” for them. But that’s precisely my point. Why do we have to be gauged for quality when in many, many other places it is the norm and doesn’t require a scavenger hunt and ridiculous prices?

Travel4fun, please don't knock San Diego. We love it here and will never leave. I go to the beach at least weekly, all year round, the weather is mild, I enjoy Balboa Park, the Old Globe theater, and our coastline is spectacular . I would love to visit your area sometime, as it sure it's also beautiful!

Pat, I’m speaking from my personal experience of living in SD for over 30 years, and having visited many times over the past 20 years. I’ve never regretted my decision to move away. Most of my family still lives there. I’m sure if you’re retired, have a paid off mortgage, are not forced to sit in traffic for an hour each way every day - it’s lovely. Most of my family are not in that scenario, and I was not when I lived there. The struggle to survive there is real, and for what? Where I live now is a completely different world, for which I am very grateful. Low crime, friendly people, minimal traffic, gorgeous scenery without any commute.

But the first thing I do when I get out of the airport is go to a taco shop.

RENT is the number one killer of small restaurants in the US. You need volume to pay the enormous rents in the US. Europe subsidizes many businesses and the US does not. In order to save costs small restaurants in the US buy canned food to overcome spoilage. Also, there are not as many reasonable fresh markets in the US. Fresh food for restaurants isn't as easy to procure as it is in Europe and at a less expensive acquisition cost. It is rare to find a small restaurant in the US that serves fresh ingredients at competitive pricing. Just look at the demise of bakeries in the US. How can they compete and who is going to pay 9 dollars for a loaf of bread very often.

It is a cultural difference on the importance of small businesses. In the US they can't survive on their own and in Europe the culture is to help them to stay in business through government subsidies. In the US we tear down and build and in Europe they restore, remodel and treasure the past. Just a different cultural mindset.

Threadwear, thank you. That’s exactly what I was curious about. I thought it must be something systemic. It makes a lot of sense. In the US, the companies that get the help (tax breaks, etc) are big corporations. Under the guise of “job creation”. As a result those big companies are the ones that profit (by paying poor wages) and squeeze out the mom & pops, who place a value on quality over quantity. But the jobs being created are low paid jobs, and those people can’t afford the residential rent. We’ve seen this in our town, for sure. It’s a vicious cycle.

We were in Italy S-O 2022.

1) The wine is super good, and you can get a very acceptable bottle of wine for 3-4€ IN A CONVENIENC MART. If you want to spend 10€, you can get really good wines.

2) The pastries are REALLY good, and not expensive. We had breakfast in Pisa - 2 latte machiato, 4 pastries, 12€.

3) There are dozens and dozens of Italian cheese which are all different. In the US, there are NO cheeses which are regional, interesting, and high-quality. If you find anything regional, it's really expensive.

Food in the US is really discouraging.

Some of the comments about expensive items are from the Nordic countries (well-known to have VERY expensive alcohol and pretty much everything else) and from big touristy cities (Rome). In our trip to Italy in 2022 ($=€ PARITY), we seldom spent more than 6€ on a spritz in small cities like Padova. In Milan, deals were even better - we spent 6€ for an Aperol during apertivo time, and got a small pizza, nuts, and other stuff. We ordered a second drink, and got a second small pizza.

travel4fun, I know what you mean. The letdown is like after any big event such as a marathon or vacation. It's back to reality, and it's normal to feel a little blue.

I'd recommend having something to look forward to each month, like a show, a sporting event, a night away somewhere, or whatever suits your fancy.

As you plan for your next trip your spirits will revive as you look ahead.

You've also articulated why we don't eat out much at home. It's not that good, and along with a couple of drinks and the tip pretty darn expensive. Plus, we believe we eat healthier at home. If we're lazy we'll get take out from a grocery.

Fascinating combination of damning the states, praising Europe and everything in between. I go to the same location in Europe year in year out and know that I’m “home”. Then we fly back the USA and know that I’m still “home”.

With the Euro and the $ at parity or close to it by a few pennies, say not more than a nickel, that is additional motivation and financial incentive to spend my so-called tourist dollars in Europe. Presently, the $ is a bit more weaker than a nickel, $ 1.09 to the Euro.

Luckily, in the six weeks spent over there in June and July, based on my credit card statements, the exchange rate hovered between $1.07 to $1.09.

On the issue of food : No doubt , one of the primary reasons for going to Europe is for the food, apart from the other salient reasons.

Gotta be careful when saying the US is this or that… the US is the equivalent of 50 different countries, all with different cultures. Here in the SF Bay Area, and especially in Marin County and SF, there are Farmer’s Markets every day of the week, excellent fresh produce, seafood, meat, cheeses, bakeries, bread, wine, lots of Mom & Pop restaurants serving good quality food…

We are lucky here in this area. But i still prefer Europe and European culture, the amazing trains and public transportation, the history, architecture, health care costs, café culture, lifetyle… and on and on.

Europe subsidizes many businesses

Where does this come from? I don't know of any restaurants or small stores in the UK that are subsidised by the governement and I can't think why there would be any in continental Europe either.

If anything, US restaurants are subsidised by their customers with their tipping thereby leaving the owner to get away with not paying staff a proper wage.

Europe subsidizes many businesses and the US does not.

????

Of course all governments subsidize large and small businesses in different ways, by the way they write the tax code. But it would be news to my husband and his restaurant colleagues and bosses/owners if the French government were subsidizing their rent or employer taxes !!!! Labor costs for business owners are HIGH in Europe - because workers have more protection. It's a policy choice. But restaurants aren't getting any deals on their rent from the government in France, I can assure you !

Now the government can also make a choice, like the French government did during the first year of the pandemic to help businesses and citizens by literally paying 84 % of employees' salaries so that businesses that weren't able to open and earn any income didn't have to fire their workers. But those were extraordinary circumstances. In general, businesses are not cheaper to own and operate in Europe than in the States.

For me it’s not food related post travel…although I adore food!? . It’s experience related. I miss the sites I just saw, the cobblestones, the smell of bread, the antiquity, the architecture. The nature…the hills and valleys. Just “being”… and away from routine. I have a wonderful life here at home…..but love to travel and plan new travel. I am now experiencing travel withdrawal! Just got home Thursday.

In general, businesses are not cheaper to own and operate in Europe than in the States.

If that is true, then why could the OP write the following: We ate at a Michelin starred restaurant in France for about the same as we would spend at Olive Garden.

Why are there so many self operated restaurants in such small villages in Europe that seem to survive year after year, when an equivalent size town in the US only has a basic chain style operation and very few privately self employed restaurants? Tourism is the big answer. Take away tourism in some villages of Europe and they will and have become ghost towns.

I am not saying that running a restaurant in Paris is by any means inexpensive. However, here is some information on employer costs of employees.

The index reflects the level of the total compensation of employees in the economy. Labor costs are defined as core expenditure borne by employers for the purpose of employing staff. They include employee compensation, with wages and salaries in cash and in kind, employers' social security contributions and employment taxes regarded as labor costs minus any subsidies received.

• France 107.70
• Germany 110.70
• Italy 100.70 (lowest on the list)
• Spain 106.10
• Canada 155.19
• USA 170.36
• UK 204.68

Don't kid yourself, trying to run a business in the US is not cheaper than Europe. However, this is not a competition, but an explanation as to why the OP enjoyed restaurants in Europe more than the US. Labor costs, fresh food acquisition costs and the ease of procurement is some of the answers.

Also, culture is a huge impact. Just go into a restaurant in the US and try to spend 3 hours at a table and see the contortions a server makes and count the number of times they ask, "is there anything else I can get you?" Don't worry about getting a check in the US, it will be on the table with words like, "I'll take this when you are ready", which means "let's get a move on people, I need 20-25% of more than what you all ordered."

Eating out in a restaurant generally, is less pleasurable because of tipping. Customers are herded like cattle through the dining experience to do table turns. That defeats the relaxed dining experience of Europe.

Culture and cost of doing business is why we enjoy restaurants in Europe more so than back home. Culture and costs affect the quality of the food and service provided. If you have a restaurant here in the US that is like a place in Europe, keep going and drum up business for them, because if not, soon they will have to close their doors.

“when an equivalent size town in the US only has a basic chain style operation and very few privately self employed restaurants?”

Not true. Please see my post above.

Susan:

Ok, good wine in CA. But good inexpensive wine? Bottles under $5? $10?

In Italy, you could go into the Eately high-end grocer with a "growler" and get bulk wine for €2/L. In ALdi, here, the best you can do is the box for $5/L.

"We are lucky in this area, (yes, the Bay Area). But I still prefer...lifestyle...and on and on." Indeed. How true !

During our 4 weeks in France, I actually considered how fortunate we are in Seattle in many ways. Great summer weather (and our winter weather is probably quite comparable to Paris). A wonderful downtown market - the Pike Place Market. Some really great restaurants with all kinds of food - Italian, seafood, fusion, Pan-Asian, and more. Beautiful mountains nearby. Quite good wines, up and down the US west coast - not just California

Yes, there is the suburban sprawl. No, we don't have the wonderful architecture. Nor the art museums of the calibre that one finds in Paris.

And yes, our prices are higher for food, health care and tragically, rent. Our homelessness problems are so much worse than in Europe (at lest for the native born Europeans, as opposed to refugees). We can learn from Europe.

Unfortunately, in many ways, we and they are all heading down some of the same wrong paths, but that is for a different forum.

As RS says, travel "to get out of your comfort zone, meet the people, and view other cultures — as well as our own — with an open mind. ...any traveler can bring back valuable insights."

We traveled with my sister and her husband. They live in Seattle. They are foodies and wine people (winos doesn’t seem like the right term :)). They were seriously looking at real estate while on the trip, and wondering what it would take to retire there. Over and over, they compared the places we visited to their home. My brother in law recently retired after working in downtown Seattle for over 30 years. He kept commenting “You could never have that downtown.” Generally in reference to anything “nice” (fountains, statues, etc), and therefore would be a target for vandalism. Such a sad statement of the lack of respect for others and their property.

I think the "post-trip blues" are common with many travellers, they're an unavoidable part of travel. Moving to Europe is probably a common thought with some, but unfortunately that's often not as easy as it sounds.

The only antidote that I've found is exactly what you're doing..... start planning the next trip!

I second Ken. Start planning the next trip!

BTW, I blame this rant on gummy bears. In Germany and France, they are amazing. I just bought some from the same brand and they are flavorless and hard in comparison.

Just avoid the Haribo Sugar Free gummy bears. The sweetener they use has an unfortunate laxative effect

Well, I know a couple who decided to move to Bilbao Spain from Austin, TX.

They had been there and they loved it.

They sold their homes. They sold or gave away almost everything they had.

They made out the forms to become a long term or permanent resident of Bilbao. They had to buy some insurance and or pay fees that were very expensive.

They had some money from retirement etc.

So they move to Bilbao and within a few months, they had moved back to the United States. They stayed with the in laws in Oregon until they could get settled and now live in the area.

I do not know what happened but I was told that it had something to do with smoking. The couple hated being around smokers and may have been allergic to smoke. I was told that Europe does not have the same smoking laws as the United States.

They had spent time in Bilbao but yet, when they moved there, they experienced Bilbao differently.

The grass is always greener n the other person's yard

However, a former mayor of Austin now lives in Portugal and I heard that he really is happy and loves Portugal.

I always have the blues after returning from a travel experience, and after backpacking experiences in the mountains too. I don't have a job to come back to that I enjoy in the least. I would much rather be in the mountains or in another country--and away from an American society that I find rather brutal. In Europe what I find is people living lifestyles that are more attune to being a human being--work to live rather than live to work. In the mountains I can at least briefly get away from the anger, hatred, and aggression and into a simpler, natural, quieter world.
Since so many in this discussion have been talking about food, I will say that the PNW does have great salmon (though we need to protect them).

I totally agree with you, Pete. The mountains are where I find my peace. We travelled to the Dolomites and the Swiss alps on this trip, and both were spectacular.

I agree with you too Pete. Well said.

I agree that life lives more on a human scale in Europe.

One reason that middle class amenities are generally higher quality in Europe is that the European middle class is larger, and so drives more of the economy, and so more business caters to them.

I think this is why you can get a pretty good hotel room in Europe for the price of a more down market chain in the US, safer instance a Super 8. I'm paying the same or less for hotels in Europe. Then we were paying on our last road trip for a Super 8, and the accommodations in Europe are much nicer.

In my city, Seattle, there are a lot of people with high incomes. Businesses I think cater to these people because they are the ones who have the money to spend, so market rates in bars, restaurants etc. end up at levels that fit wealthier people. Bend probably the same, business is catering to people who moved to Bend with money, and tourists who come with money.

Of course in Seattle, and significantly more so across the United States, there are a whole lot of people who don't have much disposable income. The United States GINI index number is quite similar to Mexico, just that we have a higher floor. Proportionally we have about the same percentage of poorer people and wealthier people. So we have more of a tendency on average either have cheap crap (think Walmart and fast food) or nice stuff that you have to pay through the nose for. The businesses in the US cater to a bifurcated market.

In Europe though, been even more so in the regions of Europe where you traveled, GINI index numbers are significantly lower. Proportionally there's a lot more middle class people with a reasonable amount of steady disposable income, but not really high disposable income. Businesses in Europe naturally tend to compete for this market. And so your middle class euro in Europe tends to buy you more appealing stuff at a better value.

There are many other cultural factors of course, but macroeconomics cannot be ignored as a major factor when you're talking about how business interacts with the public.

I really do appreciate what a good value Europe is for middle class earners! Makes a trip focused on sightseeing, culture and history so much nicer at the end of the day when you have a great dinner with good wine and it cost the same as the Olive Garden.

They were seriously looking at real estate while on the trip, and wondering what it would take to retire there.

Travel4Fun, we lived abroad (Italy) for 5 years. It was a wonderful experience, but it is NOT the same as traveling there. Reality sets in. One has to balance the lifestyle experience as a traveler with the everyday stuff of living somewhere you may never fully understand. From Internet to apartment leases to banking to taxation is a whole new world to navigate.

Now having a place there to stay in 2 months at a time; THAT could be a winner!

@ Pete...Your points are well taken, effectively expressed.

@Laurel, very well said. It does depend upon what you leave behind - Bills, household tasks, kids, elderly parents, watering the lawn, car repairs, ad nauseam. My friends joke that the 6 months or so I spend in Sweden out of the year are equivalent to a motorhome!

I've thought about living in another country, but am probably not going to do so. For one thing, you would never understand another joke, especially subtle ones, unless you were a very fluent speaker of the local language.

I hear ya!

I am just amazed that mainstream American food is really just so boring and worse, the range of food is extremely narrow! Hot dogs, hamburgers, french fries, etc. Goodness! The food palette can be so expansive and wide, but mainstream American food is narrow and very limiting. I don't get it.

Bouncing off of Periscope,

I used to have a blah period when returning from trips, but now that travel to Europe is so regular and I've done it quite a lot, not anymore.

On the subject of the American palate, that is the American acceptance of subjectively less delicious foods than Europeans eat:

In his outstanding, prescient 1905 book on American habits and norms The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, the German father of sociology Max Weber observed how and what most Americans ate. Basically, he saw Americans eating plain and cheap foods quickly as fuel for labor. He linked both the eschewal of food as pleasure, and the strong sense of laboring as a virtue to Calvinism, which Weber argues was the driving ethical philosophy of industrial revolution era capitalist societies, and created social conditions that fueled their explosive growth.

Shovel it in (Yes, with the sole right-handed utensil from the other thread 🙂), get back to work, watch the money pile up.

It's an absolutely excellent book in English translation if anyone is interested in reading something academic but readable and super insightful (Weber traveled to the US and observed the people across the country as would a participatory anthropologist). It's part diary, part analysis, quite German in how it clinically looks through the bs to the core movements. I think it's probably mostly correct about why Americans eat cheap somewhat boring foods fast.

I was told that Europe does not have the same smoking laws as the United States.

That's a sweeping generalisation. Europe is a continent and smoking laws and attitudes differ between countries. Smoking laws in the UK for example are pretty much in line with the US and smoking rates vary greatly across Europe: https://www.statista.com/chart/7154/europes-smoking-hotspots.