Political Considerations in Choosing Destinations

First, this is a user forum, so you should only expect responses here from other users. Rick Steves doesn't post here (and doesn't appear to read forum posts - I'm sure he is busy). Some of his staff occasionally browse posts but this is not an effective way to contact them.

Second...political considerations are impossible. How does one apply their political filter consistently?

If the Philippines is not OK to visit, what about....Israel? Poland? Hungary? Turkey? Russia? The USA?
All of these countries (and a lot more) have their own significant "political" issues, yet many seem to be actively promoted here as travel destinations (and there are even even Rick Steves tours to most of them).

No country is perfect, every country has its share of issues. So ultimately, this is an impossible question to answer. In the end, each traveler needs to make up their own mind.

I've thought about this issue a lot and talked about it with a lot of other people and have come to the decision that for myself, as long as a place is safe, I will visit despite the political leanings of its leadership. In developing countries especially, people refusing to spend their tax dollars in a country because of politics hurts the every day people more than it does the government. I know there are a number of people who question visiting our country right now, but the impact is would be much greater to me and the people living in my tourism based community than it would be to our president. But I think everyone just has to weigh this issue for themselves, I don't think there is any right or wrong answer.

There was a period of time after the US invaded Iraq that I would not travel to or through the United States. Then came the necessity to do so if I wanted to cross to the UK from NYC on the Queen Mary. My scruples were put aside for a while. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose.....

It seems to me that choosing not to go to a country out of political considerations is a form of economic boycott. IMO economic boycotts hurt the general populace, not the regime.

Although I think that Chani makes an important point that economic boycotts hurt everyday people rather than government officials, there are countries that I intentionally boycott for human rights and personal safety reasons(as a female)-India and Egypt.

Interesting thread, and a question that I thought about the other day.

I have been to Russia and have no desire to go back. Would I avoid Hungary for political reasons? Probably not. But there is concern over the number of European countries flirting with fascism?

After the massacre in Beijing in June 1989, I held off from going to China, any plans I had up until then, conceptually, I dismissed. Basically, I boycotted the country while others I know went regardless of reason. Now after all these years I would be willing to participate in a tour going there since I know of numerous people over the years having been there on business, teaching, or just vacationing. Just don't forget what the political system is amidst the technological advances.

Going to Poland and Hungary poses no problem, no hesitations: the last time in Hungary was a few years ago, in 2015, just prior to the refugee/migrant crisis.

Second...political considerations are impossible. How does one apply
their political filter consistently?

Simple, one applies them based upon the forces of their own conscience. Who am I to argue with that?

Does it do any good? Does it have to? Maybe just a demonstration of your personal values is sufficient enough to make one person think? It certainly does no harm. So why worry about another's belief system?

Generally speaking if its a Democracy like Hungary or Austria I accept their political decisions as part of the educational process of travel. I don't have to agree with them, ain't my country.

Generally speaking I'm just not comfortable in countries that diminish the value of women or religious communities or the LBGT; or threaten, annex or invade their neighbors.

WEBMASTER: Did I do that well enough without becoming political?

I absolutely "vote with my wallet" and that includes my vacation dollars. It has meant changing our travel and vacation plans a lot since November 2016 and for the next few years. It has also meant more dollars being directed to charities and social movements that I strongly believe in.

Sharon, good point. To have as a universal concept that the government's are bad, but not the people assumes that the government's are universally not supported by a majority of the people.

As for charities, when a person visits a place that moves them, it is always good to find a way to give back to that community. Sometimes when a person here is going to visit a place I find special I pass along some suggestions. Unfortunately, all too often, I think the desire to judge exceeds the desire to help.

Well, I look at it a bit differently. At least two of the countries mentioned in this thread I would consider enemies of my country, having committed acts of aggression (not necessarily militarily, yet) against the US or our allies. So I choose not to consider travel there.

I reject the line of thinking that because it's hard to apply your values 100% consistently, you should never try to apply them at all. The way I see it, it's better to do the right thing most of the time than none of the time.

I will not travel to Qatar or the UAE because of what I understand to be the ongoing exploitation of migrant workers (who have their passports confiscated and are thus are effectively enslaved) in building much of the tourist infrastructure. I'm aware that it's possible that some other countries I might visit could be harboring similar abusive practices that I don't know about. That doesn't change my opinion of the ones I do know about.

We definitely like to consider morel values in our travel decisions. . . .

https://untamedfeast.com/morel-mushrooms/

Lola, I was going to go there, but resisted...

Lola, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Many US states have festivals celebrating their morels and I will definitely show my support by visiting those states. :)

EDIT: David, never resist an urge to be humorous.

There are places I won't travel because of the "politics" of the country. Do I think my personal boycott make one bit of difference? No, but if it comes up in a conversation it does give me a chance to express my opinion and maybe even allow the other person to reflect on travel decision they make.

The notion of avoiding other countries to punish those who "flirt with fascism" is the height of American arrogance and insularity. What specifically does fascism mean? In the EU today, every government is democratically elected, and is time-limited. There are no dictatorships. In many cases, governments that specific individuals in the US disapprove of have been voted in, democratically, on several occasions.

Rather than imposing OUR US VALUES on other countries, it is better to be a tourist, and stay out of domestic politics in other countries. In Rick's address about traveling, he closes with a thoughtful discussion of the "National Dream". In the US, we have the American dream. In Hungary, they have the Hungarian dream. I can assure all readers that they are not the same dream. Hungary's history is different than the history of the US, and this produces a different national aspiration, the Hungarian dream. Neither I nor you, Gentle Reader, are in the position to make a judgement about the National Dream, and about the internal politics, of other countries. It is arrogant to make this claim.

And one final point: The US version of Democracy is not a universal value, nor a universal good. There are other systems which work well. During the Vietnam War, we who were eligible for the draft were told that we needed to save the Vietnamese from the Communist system. It took 50,000+ US lives to get through that delusion. I never believed that stuff.

Travel allows me to see how the real world works. You are not going to get that from any news network and sitting at home. In the last year we have traveled to Oman, India, Jordan, Israel, Egypt, Greece, Japan, Russia, South Korea, Costa Rica and Panama. In the fall of 2015 we found ourselves in the middle of the immigration crisis at the Vienna and Munich train stations and in Budapest; not by design, but I would not trade those experiences. We will continue to travel wherever our dart lands on the map.

If you don't like where a specific tour takes you; create your own.

Boycotts are not neutral choices either, and can have unintended consequences. Carter kept the US out of the 1976 Olympics. This was devastating for US athletes. For many, they lost the opportunity they had trained their entire lives for. In turn, the Soviet Union boycotted the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Again, for what?

Ideally, as they see it, the "Hungarian Dream" is to bring about the reversal of Trianon imposed on them in 1920 by the US, Britain and France. Nothing better than to get back Transylvania.

We have traveled to many countries with communist governments, Cuba, Russia, Viet Nam and more. It was a learning experience.
However, we had planned to visit Myanmar this year and won’t take that trip due to the current atrocities against the Muslim minority. We feel that the government condones these actions and that our money would end up in the government’s hands.

Fred: Translyvania + Vojvodinja (current N Serbia) + parts of Slovakia (Bratislava) + most of Croatia (including Zagreb). Yes, Hungary lost a lot. You participate in the losing side of a war, you do lose territory in a lot of cases. I don't see that happening.

Just a quick correction to the above. Jimmy Carter boycotted the 1980 Olympics which were held in the Soviet Union. Carter became president on January 20, 1977. The 1976 Olympics were held in Montreal, Canada.

Interested to see that some people have an issue with India. I've never visited but it's not one that I would have a particular concern about. Anyone inform me why I should have concerns?

@Emma - I believe that the issues there are generally around violence against women (sexual assaults which go unpunished or worse; some highly publicized specific cases and wider issues about the status of women in general). I am convinced that these are very valid (and heart-breaking) concerns, but I'm equally sure that in a country as huge and diverse (understatements there) as India, it's hard (for me) to paint the whole country with a broad brush on those issues. I know things vary tremendously by location, social class, life circumstances, etc. This is, of course, a vast over-simplification, so take with a grain of salt.

There may be other issues of concern, but I believe that's the one that cause some to say "I wouldn't go". Personally, I would gladly go to India (but then I will go almost anyplace...I do have my limits, but only a very short no-go list, eg North Korea and Syria).

Dale: I had the feeling that I should have checked those dates. Thanks for your correction.

My no-go list is pretty much dominated by cost (Britain), safety (Syria, Armenia, much of Africa, Central America), and boringness (Antarctica, any ocean cruise).

This is interesting. Its a good healthy discussion.

This is a good discussion.

I agree, such a great discussion... so refreshing to see :)

And I understand the other side too. There is no way one could be informed enough to make rational decisions on every country in the world. Some of it is so grey and so subjective. My favorite example involves to adjacent countries in the center of Europe. One always thought of as left leaning and the other right leaning. In fact their governments are reflective of that perception. In the right leaning country the recently elected leader has some borderline fascist tendencies and so the country is judged the same. The truth is the gentleman won with 49% of the vote. The liberal country in a recent election also had a candidate with the same tendencies but he lost his election ............... because he only had 49% of the vote. So while the governments are presumably very different, are the people of the country may not be so much different. You would have to become a scholar of each country to determine the difference.

This is why in all but truly extreme countries; as long as there is a democracy in place, I am pretty okay with visiting. And yes, I get to define "truly extreme" for myself. Countries where there is totalitarian rule are a bit different; but i suppose there are some countries with rather benign dictators. I draw a line with countries that are stated enemies of the United States and our Allies; countries that are flagrant in the violation of the rights of minority groups and women. If Christians, Jews, Muslims or any religious group are persecuted or women or LGBT are subjected to subhuman treatment I'm not going to be comfortable spending my time or my money there. If the lack of my money hurts some innocents today, maybe if everyone did the same, many, many generations in the future would have better lives. Maybe not. But change always comes at a cost.

@ Paul...True in regards to other pieces of real estate Hungary was forced to cede. I listed only Transylvania (Siebenbürgen as it was known then) to keep it simple. Trianon was the most draconian treaty in the First World War, far more severe were the US, Britain, France on Hungary than on Germany. Yes, Trianon was more severe than Versailles, even Brest Litovsk.

"...so grey and so subjective." How true! He got 49% of the vote, he got more than Hitler in a free election.

Fred, Too often people fall into the trap of labeling a country based on the words of one man in power. To even begin to understand the truth you have to evaluate the entire political system and its institutions; or judge by its actions.

In those two countries, one with a conservative leader and one with a liberal leader; the one with the conservative leader was heavily criticized for building walls against the migrant crisis a few years ago. But within a year or so the country with the liberal leadership began doing the same; as did many countries in the region. But unless you did a lot of reading (it never makes the US news), you would have no idea. I don't have the time to be a scholar, so i only get moved by really gross atrocities. The country where being gay is effectively illegal is on my "don't visit list", as are the countries where women are still executed for adultery, or where people are imprisoned because of their religious preference, etc, or send snipers to put down civilian protests (in other countries no less) ..... How they deal with migrant asylum seekers or the extent of their free speech rights is just too complex to digest.

@ James....your point is well taken. It is very complex and the entire system needs to be examined...true.

@James - I like your thoughts on the topic. Obviously, where to travel or not is a very personal decision. As much as I want to visit the Maldive Islands, I cannot. Could my husband? Sure he is not as "political" of a creature as I am. Heck I still boycott Nestlé's 38 years after a college class I took about ethics in business and I still won't buy gas at Exxon. I am intrigued by Iran after RS great travel show there and RS's statements as travel as a political act but not sure I'd spend my limited travel budget to visit. I want to visit Turkey and have good friends who live there but the government there scares me - too impulsive I think - no not our leader their leader ( but I do have Canadian friends who are boycotting the US so we are meeting in Belgium this year to bike and drink beer)

Such a terrific topic and one I really can see most sides of.

In those two countries, one with a conservative leader and one with a
liberal leader; the one with the conservative leader was heavily
criticized for building walls against the migrant crisis a few years
ago. But within a year or so the country with the liberal leadership
began doing the same; as did many countries in the region. But unless
you did a lot of reading (it never makes the US news), you would have
no idea. I don't have the time to be a scholar, so i only get moved by
really gross atrocities. The country where being gay is effectively
illegal is on my "don't visit list", as are the countries where women
are still executed for adultery, or where people are imprisoned
because of their religious preference, etc, or send snipers to put
down civilian protests (in other countries no less)

Couldn't agree more. There are 32 nations that don't recognize Israel and for that very reason, we will never travel to any of them.

Rick Steves is 100% right about travel being a political act. I enjoyed that book.

Continental, I agree, i have no intention to visit North Korea or Afghanistan or Syria or Yemen or Somalia, or Bangladesh or Pakistan or Iraq or ... wait!! There is a trend here??? Fortunately no European countries on the list... yet!

Donna, am curious why the Maldives? When I went 15 years ago, there were loads of Brits, Europeans and Aussie, but no Americans, never understood why?
I am sorry to say but at the moment the one place I wont be visiting for the next 2 and half years is the USA.......

A trend indeed, James E....

Very much relieved no European nations have thrown in with that ugly mob of 32 countries.

Interested to see that some people have an issue with India. I've
never visited but it's not one that I would have a particular concern
about. Anyone inform me why I should have concerns?

Yes, the systemic rape/gang rape of young girls and women; we have no plans to travel there. Horrid, just horrid. Here's a précis from Wikipedia about rape in India.

From The Guardian.

From CNN about females with disabilities are an easy target by rapist "upper class" males who aren't prosecuted and thus get away with it.

I watched LION on the plane on the way to Lviv today. About an orphan boy in India. Purportedly a true story. At the end that said 80,000 children go missing in India every year.

Emma,

it's Bill Cosby:). I graduated from nursing school in 2008 and one of my instructors was Indian and had grown up there. She told us that every year she goes back to India to visit family and when she does she spends time in the burn units at local hospitals. She said it was still common practice for families to burn young brides when their family failed to pay the dowry promised and that the burn units were always full of such young women. I imagine this is just one of many hidden problems in their society.

No one is more guilty of turning a conversation political than I am, but this is a good conversation so I am trying real hard not to be part of what draggs it down.

I think the question is not so much which country is worse and give what reason, but about should you care about such things in making decisions of where to go and how do you establish thresholds? And maybe where does perception and reality cross?

where does perception and reality cross?

This is key. I have heard so much propoganda and sensationalistic reporting on some of the places I've visited and none have lived up to the negativity reported.

No place is devoid of problems. We all have our own personal reasons why we will or will not go anywhere. And it's not just about politics.

Case in point.....me. I hate high heat and spicy food. (My digestive system has warned me numerous times to stay away from spicy food.) So, somewhere like India is out of the question. Not because of poltiics or anything against the people. I just know I will not be happy healthwise if I go. And there are still many other places I do want to see.

In the end, everyone has to go or not go for their own reasons. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I have never wanted to visit Russia. Perhaps it has to do with forcing myself to read War & Peace one summer during high school and telling myself I wouldn't want to go there cause the names were too tough to remember. Now, though it is more about their persecution of Gays, their collusion in our elections, etc. and their FB trolls. The country holds no interest for me.

Have no interest in any of the repressive Middle East countries like Quatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, or Yemen.

Always wanted to visit India, but right now, since I am not a man, will put my plans on hold. It feels like a dangerous country for women. On the other hand, Egypt doesn't feel like a scary place at all for me and I would travel there tomorrow without any qualms.

I have friends in Germany who will not go to the US because of the gun violence and policies that are being put in place the past year. The headaches that face them at immigration are something they can live without.

Have met any number of people who put off coming to Germany because they had family members who were deported and killed here during the Holocaust. Most were Jewish, but some had family who were Gay, Socialist, Communist or Jehovah Witnesses. They had to really overcome their personal revulsion to come here.

Perhaps watch some documentaries of veterans going to Japan or Viet Nam, making peace with what happened. Meeting up with veterans of the respective armies. At the end of the day, soldiers are just cannon fodder and nothing else.
Not a very popular book anymore, but read "Johnny Got His Gun" to see this perspective. I believe they banned this book from many libraries during the Viet Nam war, but it was actually written after WWI. It will make you weep.

Ms.Jo

I have friends in Germany who will not go to the US because of the gun
violence and policies that are being put in place the past year. The
headaches that face them at immigration are something they can live
without.

A couple of questions: Gun violence vs other forms of violence? London has a higher murder rate than NYC.

What headaches at immigration on particular? I work with a number of Iranians, Indians and Egyptians and they haven't complained about anything significant when traveling home and back. What do I need to warn them about?

But your comments do illustrate my comment about reality vs perception.

James E. - As for the opinions of Germans not wanting to visit the US, I am only reporting what they have told me. Nothing else.

edit, edit, edit, edit, edit

@emma I'm one of the people who would not travel to India because of safety issues even though I know it varies in different areas of India. Yes there are serious problems with powerful men raping women in the U.S. But for those of us not associated with Hollywood, public transportation in the U.S. seems pretty safe most of the time and rape of little girls is done by criminals/family members, not by gangs of men trying to punish her family or religion by hurting her. There are certainly examples of women raped and murdered in the U.S. , but I feel fairly safe as long as I exercise good judgement and feel that my college daughter is fairly safe when not drinking.

Well it happened, Ms.Jo turned the conversation off track, and worse, I responded; my bad. So in hopes of keeping a good thread on track I have deleted or edited my responces.

I hate it when these things turn sour.

I think the question is not so much which country is worse and give what reason, but about should you care about such things in making decisions of where to go and how do you establish thresholds? And maybe where does perception and reality cross?

My original post was completely on track. I listed all the countries I did not want to visit and why. How is that off track? James E. it was you who turned the conversation around.

But hey, thanks for accusations. Feeling warm and fuzzy here at 04:00.

I won't visit countries that are known for human rights abuses , won't give them one of my tourist nickels . China comes to mind , as does North Korea .

We are avoiding the USA for now too, I wouldn't say be are completely black balling it , just choosing to avoid it for awhile .

pat, sometimes it's a serious issue like human rights abuses; sometimes it's a political statement and other times it's just a matter of personal comfort. All rational and all well justified. Oddly enough we are the same in that regard.

How about a place that attracts you because of some virtue you admire? Sort of the opposite argument. Positive rather than negative. I have chosen a few places over the years because I admired the people, despite the fact the places weren't the most beautiful or architecturally significant .... Maybe a better thread than where I won't go, would be where is calling me? Positive is always better.

How about a place that attracts you because of some virtue you admire?
Sort of the opposite argument. Positive rather than negative. I have
chosen a few places over the years because I admired the people,
despite the fact the places weren't the most beautiful or
architecturally significant .... Maybe a better thread than where I
won't go, would be where is calling me? Positive is always better.

You should start that thread, James E. An excellent idea to focus on the positive.

When it comes to travel, I absolutely ignore politics. But there again, you're not going to catch me in Uzbekistan either.
We have been to all the Baltic countries including St. Petersburg. That region is deadly expensive and the best way to see if is by cruise ship. We came into Copenhagen 3 days early and flew over to Norway for 4 days before flying home.
Let me just say we loved our two day escorted day trips in St. Petersburg. There must be 50 or more tour companies operating the same type tours, and most all receive great ratings. The country really wants us to leave Yankee Dollars there. We loved the trip and the tour.
After seeing such opulent palaces and works class possessions, we realized St. Petersburg (and Paris) were built "for show" as the rest of their country was dead dog poor, starving and greatly suffering. But in France the royals lost their heads to the guillotine.

Caro...
Donna, am curious why the Maldives? When I went 15 years ago, there were loads of Brits, Europeans and Aussie, but no Americans, never understood why?

Not sure why other American's don't go but for me it was the overthrow of the democratically elected president ,Mohamed Nasheed.

It would have to be bad but I'll pretty much go anywhere as long as its safe, even nations gripped by marxism or other ideologies that are repugnant to me. As long as I'm pretty positive I can leave freely and not worry about being in the middle of a civil war I'm good. I'd gladly go to China or Russia. Maybe Northern Africa one day too.

My ex-son-in-law said something to me once which has stuck with me. It's his opinion, not a fact, but I thought he made a good point. What he said was, "The people in countries which are ruled by a non-democratically elected government do not make the same mistake we in the US often make, of equating a government of a country with the people of that same country." We say, "Egypt does X, Iran does Y, the Philippines does Z". That's the governments of those countries that are doing those things, and the people don't have much to say about it. And it's not just the government of that country that are deprived by your staying away, it's the people of that country who are deprived.

Let's say you were one of those rare people who has an issue with Putin. His expansionist policies are supported by a fairly decent majority so in this instance the acts of the dictator mirror the desire of the people. Of course you would have to do too much study to have any chance of understanding all the nuances. So in my world, invade your neighbor in territorial quest and you are off my list.

But you assume all that might keep people away is the result of the government. The government isn't subjecting women to inhuman lives in so many parts of the world; it's people interpertating their religion or culture that is.

Continental

It's an idea, but when I explain the countries and why, someone will figure out that they are right wing, nationalistic democracies and the thread will fall apart rather quickly.

James it's funny you mention the people .

I think all countries have some wonderful people , I am sure I would meet some lovely ( but nervous ) people in North Korea . However I am making my stand by not spending my money in them regardless of the people , and more importantly I just wouldn't feel safe in a country with a corrupt government or who mistreats their own citizens . I am using NK as an example but we know there are many others .

I have always wanted to go to Egypt, as my mom wanted to , she managed to finally get there during one of their political " lulls " and loved it . That was quite a few years ago .

I am finally in a position where I have the time and theoney to fo to Egypt , however I have been waiting now for at least the last 8-10 years for it to calm down a bit so that I feel safe enough going there . It seems to settle for a while and then bamm something happens that makes me think " I'll go next year " ...

I do hope to get there one day though !

India fascinates me , but honestly the obvious poverty would make me too sad , I would literally want to adopt all the street children and give every beggar I see money ! I'd end up broke with hundreds of kids within my first day !! I know it's improving and I do hope for its future improvements for its people , but I just don't think I could "vacation " there as vacations for me are supposed to be fun , I may consider doing a volunteer type trip there one year , who knows , but I know I don't have the stomach to go there right now and just have "fun" .

Pat, you are correct, unfortunately there are no magic formulas for this. You have to have an open mind and trust your conscience.

For what it's worth, I traveled to Egypt many decades ago and found the people to be warm and welcoming. Now? Who knows? For my taste, it's safe enough and it would bring back some good memories and i woyld be inclined to go if you are inviting. I've also been fortunate enough to count many Iranians among my friends and as a result, by my assumption that my friends reflect the people as a whole, I would love to go if there were a different government.

Among my favorite countries in Europe are two right of center highly Nationalistic countries. In both the people are among the most enjoyable I have had the pleasure to meet. If I were to dissect both countries I could find a lot that is disturbing in both, but in the larger picture both are good nations full of honest and decent people and I enjoy the culture of both.

I judge my own country in the same fashion, there are things I find disturbing, but on the whole, in my opinion, a more fair nation does not exist.

“...... on the whole, a more fair nation (than the USA) does not exist.”

Look north, sir, look north.

Emma, I wasn't saying that the U.S. doesn't have problems with how women are treated (I'm still furious about the Stanford graduate judge letting off the Stanford student rapist without jail time), just that for most of us it's not a constant physical danger. And my experience with "everyday" men (as opposed to the experiences women have with men in powerful positions, including Presidents from both political parties) has not involved the sexual assault and harrassment so pervasive in those environments. And I certainly don't blame a victim for being drunk but women in full control of our faculties are definitely at less risk of assault in the college environment.

"a more fair nation does not exist."

You should get out more, mate.

I have traveled to a number of countries. I have found that a personal connection in the country goes a long way to making that move from "tourist" to "friend of the locals". In Germany, we have friends in Frankfurt (an aged uncle and aunt) and Cottbus (family of au pair from years ago). In both cases, they took us to places which we probably would have overlooked. In France, in Finisterre, we have friends of another au pair. In Croatia, I now have a number of professional colleagues. These people have taken us to fun restaurants and hidden places. I have also kept my connections to tourist guides that I thought provided value for money, and have passed along those names. In Zagreb, we like a particular sobe source, and I have passed along the name to many.

In terms of the tone of this discussion, when someone says "many persons in my country are afraid to visit the US", this seems to be a widely misinterpreted comment. This comment is probably accurate. Many Europeans see nothing but terrible stories about the US. Chicago - gangsters. Miami - murderous gangsters. New York - shootings. When a Romanian border guard saw my last name (Thompson), he did a machine-gun noise, which was funny. I could have been offended, but honestly, why not be cool about it? When someone criticizes your country, it's not YOU that is being criticized in the most case. Better to think "Hunh? Wonder if that is true" than be offended.

"So in my world, invade your neighbor in territorial quest and you are off my list."

Norma, unfortunately James is unable to ever visit Canada, because of us burning down their Whitehouse and all a few years ago.

We're visiting the US again this summer, took an exception and stayed in Nice last year, we visit pretty much every summer. Do I dislike the current president? Sure. Do I disagree with much of the US foreign policy? Absolutely. However, we have met so many fantastic Americans on our travels and it is those people who have an immediate and positive impact on our travels. To boycott an entire country on the basis of its government seems extreme to me.

Sure, I know the crime rates in the US are high but equally I know, just like the surge in stabbings in London, that such crime is not random or indiscriminate but rather confined to gangs, disputes etc and as such I view the crime figures with perspective.

I have no intention in returning to the UAE for example, not so much for its attitudes but because it's really quite boring. I also have reservations about travelling to countries that are politically unstable.

Paul, you're correct. No different than the perceptions some Americans have about many destinations. I have friends that get terrified when I go to places like Ukraine. This is where I do agree a bit with RS, getting out and meeting people does break down false perceptions, educate and open new worlds. This second trip to Kyiv last week was primarily because of the quality of the people i met on my first trip. I just feel comfortable and telaxed in Kyiv. Otherwise its a 4 night visit sort if place fir the usual tiurist activities. I ciyld have spent another week talking to peoplem. Of course there will be those with tunnel vision and can't see beyond one point on the wall. But each to their own. I have my biases, but I try and see the whole rather than the parts; and enjoy.

As for looking north, all I see is Oklahoma. But I do go to BC from time to time to do a little fishing. Canada is a fine place, always enjoy it.

@ Peter..Good point historically. .In the same war the US invaded Canada 4 times...all 4 invasions met with failure, regardless if by regulars or militia.

Well, it looks like Italy might soon have a government in which the League party will have a strong role. This party is often termed "far right" and it will be interesting to see if it triggers some sort of boycott of Italy, or reluctance to travel there, just as some people won't go to the US right now due to our President.

If political leaning is a determining factor then the world will get pretty small for some folks.

This is interesting:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-europe-populist-right/

Personally political ideology, Right vs Left, isn't something that impacts my choices. Way too complex to stick most countries in a Right or Left category. Then are you referring to the attitudes of the people or the policies of the government. Way too complex for my little mind.

James I understand and agree with most of what you said , however " a more fair nation " is not a reasonable statement .

There are many nations as fair , or fairer than the USA , you've just been led to believe your country has rights , freedoms and prividleges that other countries don't ( so you should be grateful to live in the best country in the world and swear your allegiance to it ) however as a Canandian I feel we have all the same pluses the States does and a few less of the cons ( no pun intended )

Of course, I agree completely with Pat. I already responded to James' "no more fair nation" remark by advising him to "look north" but he said all he could see was Oklahoma. "None so blind as those who will not see" is appropriate here.

It's not a matter of Right vs Left I'm afraid.
It's a case of 'right' vs 'wrong' when it's a clear denial and abuse of basic human rights and freedoms.

“a more fair nation” I presume that’s an attempt to be funny.

Pat, I whole heartedly respect your opinion; and for you, your values and your belief system it is most probably true; and I say that without judgment ir critisism. You are totally correct to hold the views that you do. One thing I have learned over the years is that first comes tolerance, then understanding, then appreciation of the differences in life. Thats why my statement didnt exclude. Isn't it wonderful that we can each be who we are with respect and understanding. If there is anything in life that I am totally burned out it's bigotry, condensation and hatred. Of course I do have a red line, everything has to have limits, but its no where near anything in this discussion.