Please tell me that Europe has hotel rooms that sleep FOUR are not scarce!

"Most hotels in the States have two queens" - true, but you're not going there, you're going to Europe. Many hotels are just not built that way. It will probably be difficult to find, but it's possible. Try using a search engine like Venere that lets you pick the number of people per room. I just did a search for one night in London for 4 in one room on June 13 for one night and got 164 hotel options. You might have to email a hotel (or call, even better) and ask if they can turn a Triple into a Quad with an extra bed. Booking now is a good idea.

You've got a couple of ways out of the box: For France and Germany (especially France) there are numerous budget chains at which you can get perfectly acceptable rooms that sleep two for well less than a hundred bucks a night. These same chains also have hotels, to a lesser extent, in England. I use these chains all the time. I've never noticed that they have a presence in Switzerland and Italy. Venere.com won't pick up these chains, but it does have a feature for looking for X people in Y rooms. I just puched in four and one for London and Rome and found all kinds of stuff. You can also look for 'family rooms' in whatever other sources you might use.

Scarce may not be the right word, but it is uncommon. Many (but not all) hotels will have 1-2 rooms deemed "family rooms" that will sleep 4. Yes, you will want to book early. The Rick Steves guide books usually mentions if his suggested hotels have such rooms. You can always email the hotel and ask. As a last resort, you can also use hostels. They WILL have rooms for 4 for about $25-35/person. You will pay a bit more for a room for 4 in a hotel, but certainly much less than two rooms. We have a family of 5 and have spent 107 nights in Europe. We have used a combination of about 40% apartments, 30% hostels, 20% small hotels and 10% B&B's. Our average cost per night is about $140, but we work hard at it, and book up to 6 months early.

Keep in mind that in his books, Rick tends to promote staying in small, older hotels deep in a city's historic old center - not always, but those are usually his favorite places - and they're great, oozing with charm. But they usually have small rooms mostly suitable for couples. Sure, there are exceptions, but that's the norm. If you're looking for a room that sleeps 4, you will probably need to focus on a different style of hotel.

In England, take a look at the Premier Inn chain which has family rooms that sleep 4.

Get away from trying to find rooms in guidebooks, any guidebooks - - they just don't have enough depth, especially if you're looking for something a bit different. I sleep out of my own bed five to six months out of the year and have never, never, not ever used a guidebook to find a place to sleep. I don't even look at the accommadations section of the darn things.

Besides budget hotel chains like the Accor brand (ie, Ibis) and family rooms or quad dorm rooms in a hostel, you could also look into university housing. During the summer months, many European universities rent out their empty dorm rooms to tourists at reasonable rates. Some universities also have blocks of studio, 1 or 2 bedroom apartments which they also rent during the summer. Other options might be Airbnb.com, convents or monasteries. And don't be put off by the thought of hostels or vacant student dorms. When I spent 2 weeks at London School of Economics in one of their dorms I had my own en-suite bathroom in my room, daily maid service, access to a coin-op laundry room, Internet access, TV/gaming lounge and use of a shared kitchen if I chose to cook my own meals. I had similar perks in Dublin and Belfast at university lodging.

You want to look for quad or family rooms. Generally they will have a double/ queen bed and two singles. We have found such rooms for our family in London, and all over Switzerland and most places we went in Italy. in France we have only been to Paris and Chamonix, and we rented an apartment and a chalet there. If you name your specific cities I'll bet people can suggest places with quad rooms. Two I know of in Italy are Hotel Villa Steno in Monterosso al Mare ( which hopefully will be recovered by nee summer) and B&B Casa Tintori in Florence. You biggest challenge will be Switzerland, not because quad rooms are scarce, but because they are expensive. One of the. Best ,deals around is Chalet Fontana in Mürren. The ground floor apartment sleeps four in two comfortable rooms, and you can save on restaurant meals by cooking your dinner in the well-equipped kitchen.

"I now Europeans have fewer kids than Americans but what do they do as a family when they travel?" Europeans have kids, too, and they travel!! However, they often prefer staying in vacation appartments which are great deals for families - more room for often less money! There are many websites that can help you finding what fits your needs. This is one of my favourites: www.interchalet.co.uk

I took a group of 4 to Europe (Germany and Italy) last June had an easy time finding rooms that could handle all of us. Look for small hotels with top floor apartments. They are usually cheaper than 2 doubles and can easily sleep 4. Some smaller hotels even have apartments a few blocks away or even across town. A little research and I'm sure you can find some. Do you know what towns you will be staying in?

We had several trips with two sons. In the US you pay for the room. Two queens and you sleep four. In Europe you pay per person and kids counts. Look for quads and family rooms. They are there just not as common. In all of our trips we never had any problems finding hotels. Probably best to book ahead for quads.

Go to the tripadvisor.com paris forums, type "quad rooms" into the search box,, there are hotels that do have quads ,but yes they are rare, and yes, they will be tight. On edit, I suggested a hotel that I thought had quads,, but does not,, its off . I will mention this, we had three kids, and a tight budget,, we knew airline tickets for five, two hotel rooms( we knew it would be close to impossible to ever find a room for five) and a large rental car( it would have to be a van likely , with luggage etc) would cost us the earth( at that time) which is why our family started a tradition of each child getting a one on one trip to Europe . I took my first son when he was 14, then two years later my husband took our next son when he turned 14, then 2 years later I took our daughter when she was 11( see how smart I was to go first. lol ) . It spread the money hit out over 6 years, all our kids had awesome trips that focused on their interests, and we were able to stay for longer visits( shortest was 17 days for first son,, by daughters turn it was 26 days, lol ) . Not saying that would work for many families, just saying its a solution we found as we wanted to share Europe with our kids but just couldn't take the hit all at once,, and you are right, Europe is just not ideal for larger families.

ps you mentioned in your other thread about apartment rental , thats a great idea, although many places will want a min. of 7 night rentals in June. Perhaps you will get lucky though and find one that will take you for less, it is a good money saver for families as you can breakfast and snack on groceries instead of restaurants for every meal.

My own experience: We have been traveling extensively around Europe ever since I got this job. We are also 2 adults and 2 kids. Normally, with a little research, we have been able to find hotels with "family rooms". My wife must get the credit as she is the one hunting them down on the internet. Take heart. Such rooms are definitely out there. Good luck!

We're travelling in July this year, 2 adults and 2 teens. London, Paris, Florence, Rome (some others but staying with family or friends). In my reserach $50 a night per person is too low. For 2 people RS suggests $90 - $100 per person based on splitting a $180 - $200 double. Quads wont be twice as expensive but $300 would be ballpark based on my reserach. London for us was a quad at $300, Paris a little more for a quad, Florence two rooms at $95 each per night, and in Rome we did a VRBO apartment for 5 nights at $200 per night.

The apartment at Chalet Fontana is 200 CHF for 4 but that includes breakfast, and you can cook your own dinner. For a bit less (180 CHF) you could get a triple and a single room in the B&B itself; put the teen in the single room and you'll all be close. These rooms open from a common area (four bedrooms) and share a bath. http://www.ferntree.ch/chalet/fontana_summer.htm (P.S. to Nigel: it's "Denise".) If your plans include a stop at Lake Geneva (Lac leman) on your way to Italy, the riviera Backpacker's Lodge is a family-friendly hostel with private quad rooms for 170 CHF (not ensuite however). http://www.rivieralodge.ch/ Or stay in the dorns at beautiful Oeschinensee, a gondola ride above Kandersteg on the main train line into Italy at Milan, for 160 CHF www.oeschinensee switzerland has become very expensive with the increase in value of the franc, but if you look you can still finds affordable places. It's worth it to experience this beautiful place, even if only for a few days.

One obvious difference between your planned trip and that of many European families is they usually pick one place to stay for their trip. That means they can either rent an apartment or camp. It is only my opinion but, five countries is alot to take in even if you are going to spend a full month in Europe. It kind of reminds me of the movie European Vacation. Much of your time will be taken up traveling between countries, checkin/out, packing/unpacking, and taking away from site seeing. You may want to bring it down to not more than 3 countries for the same time frame to make it more relaxing and less $$$ for transportation & lodging. Many places give discounts for 4 or more nights. Check Trip Advisor for places that sleep 4. Then Googgle the selections to find their direct website to make your reservations for the best rate.

Whilst we travelled a few years ago as a family for 4 I'm sure I got all our accommodation from Rick Steves "resources". I can't remember what the prices were, but they were a bit of a mixture of high and low, but we did travel in December. I would email places that took my fancy indicating who we were and the children's ages and asked what they had available. I can't see how long you are going for, nor what places you intend to visit, but I think the other thing to think about is to consider basing yourself somewhere if you can find appropriate accommodation and do day trips from there. In a couple of places the kids had their own room - next to, but not connecting to ours. The youngest (girl) turned 14 on the trip.

I normally call a hotel I'm interested in tell, them what I need ("Three nights for four people, myself, my spouse, children 16 and 12") add anyother requirement (Air Conditioning, Elevator, Ensuite Baths, Quiet side of the building, pool, etc.), then let them offer what they have that they think will work. If it sounds workable, I ask the price. If the price is right, I'll book it. I've traveled many times with spouse and three kids in tow, or just myself and a couple of kids as well as just spouse and I. We have stayed in many different kinds of lodging - from apartments or large hotel rooms, to multiple hotel rooms, to hostel dorm rooms for just our family. This is one reason I think it's better to book by phone rather than online. Online works fine for two adults traveling together; once you add any unusual needs or circumstances, it's hard to book from a standard online form.

It is not hard to book family rooms online if you do your research and figure out which hotels have them. use a site like Venere.com, Tripadvisor, or Booking.com to find possibilities. Most places that have them allow booking on the hotel's online booking form, or you can email and ask. Phoning is time-consuming and expensive, unless you have some special rate plan for international calls. Email, or the booking form, is quick and easy, and you have it all in writing in case there are any questions.

You can probably find accommodation for you 4 by US$ 250/night, assuming exchange rates don't vary that widely (like back to € 1 = $ 1,60 like in 2008). US$ 200 requires a bit of stretch, but it is workable. Bear in mind that in Europe, out of business customs, it is common to find rooms whose prices vary according to how many people sleep there. It is not like a room for 2 costs double the price of a single (more like 1.4 x single fare for instance), but there are still sizable differences, which means the cost of 2 rooms for 2 each is unlikely to be double the cost of a quad room. Other helpliners pointed great solutions: apartments, or "non-RS hotels", meaning resorting to "chain hotels" or "business hotels without much charm". I suggest a detailed, time-consuming search of Booking.com, which has, IMO, the best and most clear description of prices for different arrangements among searching engines for lodging in Europe.

Don't overlook the hostels. For instance the Archi Rossi hostel in Florence has double rooms en suite for around €50-60. hostelworld.com will give you a lot of information, including reviews.

Yesterday Lola suggested the apartment at Chalet Fontana in Mürren. That's a most excellent suggestion and makes a most beautiful area of the Lauterbrunnen Valley in Switzerland affordable. We stayed in one of Diane's Denise's (thanks Lola) B&B rooms this autumn and think that the apartment would work really well in this circumstance. Act quickly as there is just the one apartment. Walks and hikes from Mürren are magical. If you plan carefully you don't have to miss Switzerland.

Peter, On our last trip (5 weeks) we had 3 kids with us for a total of 5. I had no trouble finding rooms. We used almost exclusively accomodations found in RS guide books. He almost always lets you know what room types each place has, but I always went to hotel websites to check for myself. I also found that some places didn't have family rooms listed, but when I emailed them asking if they had accomodations for 4 or 5 they frequently did. I found that a lot of smaller places have an "appartment" that will sleep 4 or 5. I even found an appartment at our favorite hotel in Salzburg which was way cheaper per person tha their regular rooms. Moral of the story is look in the guidebooks, and email places you are interested in to see if they can accomodate your family. Have a great trip!

Peter-yes, rooms for 4 are relatively scarce-in other words, easier to find a room for 2. But it is not impossible and rather than guess at the cost you just need to start looking now. Booking.com is a good place to start, especially if you are booking hotels in large cities. If you are looking at smaller b&b type places, I find it best to email the hotel directly with "we are a family of 4, 2 adults and two children (ages). Do you have accommodations suitable for us on (date)". I have sometimes gotten back a response about rooms that were not listed or their ability to add a couple of cots, etc. The most important thing is to start your research now -do not think that you can be free and easy and book as you go. Also-we purposefully broke up our family trips, alternating between stays in large cities and going further away to small towns, etc. We usually paid more to stay in a quad room in London, Rome, etc. and then were able to stay cheaply in 2 small rooms out in the country. I think our budget would be (today) closer to $250/night on average. But the more stays you have in expensive cities, the harder it will be to keep your budget low. Again, not impossible, but look very closely at you itinerary and try to find a balance.

Three years ago, our family of four went to Europe. Rented an apartment in London, and easily located hotels with rooms for four in Paris, Vienna, and Salzburg. I used Trip Advisor for hotel recommendations and Internet hotel search engines for hotel recommendations and leads, and then checked the websites for hotels. It took at least some time, but had no problems finding very nice hotels for four. I will add that our budget was a tad higher than the rates of hotels Rick normally recommends. I don't need to spend a great deal on food, but I am willing to spend more on the right hotel. I have found that the right hotel can enhance greatly our travel experience.

You've gotten lots of good advice already. Yes, I would say quad rooms are scarce. Some hotels don't have any. Many have one or two triples or quad rooms. You'll have to look around, but you'll find them! We have traveled to Europe several times with our kids, but only one at a time, so there were only 3 of us. This year, the first trip with all 4. It's taken me a little more looking, but I've located rooms in all of our destinations that are in our price range - in some places, quad rooms, in others, two doubles. When looking at quad rooms, check on the bed sizes. At times, the extra beds are more like cots, or one-person foldout sofabeds (the foam kind, not the kind with a frame and bad springs). Some are full-sized, but many are smaller. So if you have an adult-sized kid, they may be cramped. Unless you go real low-budget, you may need to increase your budget a bit. We feel a prime location is important, as well as clean rooms, especially the bathrooms; we don't care about elevators and nice lobbies; we are willing to pay for some charm and much prefer small inns (or B&Bs). All the hotels we're staying in are 3*; we're also staying in some B&Bs, which don't have the * rating system. Our average cost per night (staying in cities) is about 235 Euros. You may assess things differently, and be willing to stay in less centrally-located hotels (but keep in mind the prices for public transport). For one hotel (that we've stayed in before, so I knew how small the rooms are), we were able to negotiate a lower price for two double rooms - lower than anything on their website. So you may have to email the hotels directly, but end up with a better price. Yes, start NOW. We're traveling end of May-beginning of June, and I've booked most places.

We travel with one child so we book a triple room. However, we also ran into several B &B's that charged per person, not per room, so in those cases our daughter got her own room. So, you may look for a per person rate or a quad room if it turns out less expensive. Have fun!

Wow, quite the number of responses so far. This must have really touched a nerve. It's a good thing, too, because this issue probably ranks high in the list of things an American first-time-traveler to Europe would be surprised to learn. I would just like to reassure everyone that larger rooms are not that hard to find. You just have to be aware of the situation and ask around early enough. I hope you don't stoop to one of those modern budget hotels in an attempt to get two cheapo rooms. Smaller hotels with some charm also often have a couple of larger rooms. You don't have to spend anywhere near $400/night. only twice that I can recall, has our family of five spent more than $200/night. There has also never been an occasion that we have been forced to stay more than walking distance from the city center. I will confess, however, that we don't count stars (but never once encountered anything truly unpleasant) and usually have every lodging booked at least four months in advance (and sometimes six). Also, in the more expensive cities, we have always been able to rent (and prefer) apartments. There is no way we could keep the daily costs sub-$200 in a decently located hotel in Paris or London or Rome. But apartments? Yes.

'don't stoop to one of those modern budget hotels' Yep, never stoop to such a thing. It would give the the parents a bit of privacy and let the kids get away from mom and dad for a while. Such a stoop might also expose them to a bunch of regular people from all over the world. Apparently if you don't do something a certain way, you stoop. The whole world is not full of preconceived ambiance and charm, a lot of it is just what it is.

Several years ago, we (3 persons) and our good friends (2 parents + 3 daughters) stayed at the Albergo Guerrato in Venice. We found this in Rick Steves' Italy book. Our friends booked the room for 5. Though not much walking room between each bed, and they each also had 25" suitcases + backpacks/carryons, they managed to fit. Clean, simple rooms, friendly hotel owners, full of antiques, and I think the rate was very fair. It was our favorite hotel of the trip. One hallway window overlooked a kitchen. The chef saw us watching him chop veggies and waved. There was a clothesline outside our friends' window, so they hung up their laundry which dried overnight. Located by Venice's produce market, a very interesting, convenient location. We have wonderful memories of our stay there and will stay there again. Please know if you are interested, you need to book early as I understand they fill up very fast during the summer. In London, some other friends (family of 4) stayed at the Renaissance Chancery Court which holds 4. Though this is a pretty pricey hotel, the location is great!
Have a great trip!

Ahhh, those pesky modern budget hotels offering all those horrible new-fangled things devoid of any and all charm like cheap room rates, air conditioning, elevators and free Wi-Fi! Who would stoop to wanting those things? Oh wait, I know! My relatives who were born in Europe and still live there to this day. They are infidels and deserve to be stoned to death for embracing modern conveniences! We have told them they need to stop driving their cars and use a small mule or team of oxen to bring the kids to school as it would be more charming for the Americans to look at as they drive through their hometowns. And when they come to New England I try to convince them to stay in a B&B with some quaint Yankee charm so they can chat with the owner about her large collection of porcelain dolls or teddy bears over a cup of tea. They never listen, and the next thing I know I am hearing how they booked adjoining rooms at Homewood Suites by Hilton because it's got HBO, an indoor pool, free breakfast and a nightly Manager's Reception where they can drink free wine and beer in the lobby! They do NOT deserve to hold those European passports!

I may not be adding too much more than the others have, but we are a family of four and we haven't had any trouble finding accommodation. We usually rent apartments, and I'm finding that since the economy took a nose dive it's much easier to find ones that rent for a minimum of 3 nights - even in big cities like Paris and London during peak times. Alternatively, we stayed in two different hotels last year in Italy that easily accommodated us. One was in Pisa - Hotel Bologna and they had a very large and lovely family room. It was a little bit pricer than our other places, but it was well worth it for us as it was only for two nights. Great location and friendly staff, and a fantastic included breakfast in the morning. We also stayed in Venice at a Novotel for less than $100/nt! It wasn't in the historic older part but we easily took a bus for $3 in and the hotel had the benefit of a very much appreciated swimming pool. You have enough time to figure it all out, just make sure to do the homework and not just pick the first thing you see. Good luck and have fun!

Here is what I've found so far: It's been no problem finding quad rooms five months before arrival, esp. using hotels.com. The harder angle is finding "Rick Steves"-ish accommodations (local spirit, community, location) for a reasonable price. His guide books have helped some, esp. Murren. The big shocker was Venice. I must have spent (not joking) five hours over a week reading reviews on three sites. I finally chose Residence Corte Grimani the TripAdvisor #7 best hotel... great price, location, 5/5 reviews, singing gondolas below. On the final checkout page hotels.com added an unexpected $400 for the kids... knew there had to be a catch somewhere! #next#! The savior so far has been AirBnB.com. HOPE to have good experiences with these--booking many. I've decided to pay more to be centrally located. For Paris we booked in Marais with much work instead of just outside city limits, I believe saving at least an hour and 20 Euros? per day. I've been werk'in the system. I bet I've spent 50 hours so far chew'in up the Internet--driving my wife absolutely bonkers. It's a daunting task to find the best match for our family for TWELVE different hotels. I take seriously each one. It's like planning TWELVE different vacations--it's a research project I grossly underestimated when I first conceived of our weekend, er, month "get away." Thanks again for everyone's invaluable assistance. Pete

Pete, Thanks for coming back with an . I wish more people did that with popular threads instead of leaving us hanging about how things turned out. Here's the thing about all the hours of work you have put in; A month from now when you are completely done planning and still have months left before your departure, you will look back on this time spent researching with fondness. It's kind of exciting, isn't it? Visualizing where each hotel is located helps put your head "in" the city. It's almost like being there in a small way. This experience will make the next time you go through this process (I hope there will be a next time) more efficient. While it's not necessary to use Rick-Steves-approved lodgings (we almost never do because we prefer apartments), good for you for wanting to choose lodgings that add to the experience instead of simply being a place to lay your head. If you are in Venice for at least three days, there are many apartments to be had for around $200/night that would fit all four of you. We'll be in Venice June 12-15, how about you?

This is a great topic and as someone who has faced this same issue, I'm glad you posted. Family rooms are rarely mentioned in Rick's books or on the websites of the hotels. I have found it works best to email hotels directly and to ask if they have a family room that would accommodate 2 adults and 2 teens. Many do have such an arrangement but rarely publicize it. I also ask what size and how many beds will be in the room to avoid a sleeping arrangement that will not work. I found the family rooms are not as expensive as 2 rooms (2 rooms are not an ideal arrangement especially if the rooms are not connecting---don't assume that they will be; double check). SuzieeQQ
San Diego CA

Interesting, having taken only one Rick Steves tour, it was a Family Europe trip,, so everyone on tour had kids,, I noticed we did not stay in any of Ricks guide book listed hotels, now that makes sense, since we all needed rooms for at least three , often four. But all the hotels we stayed in were nice enough,, small, sometimes family run , very RS ish.. so its possible to find those type of places .

A lot of people have given a lot of good (and conflicting) advice. I think it's entire possible to book rooms for more than 2 people entirely online as I've done it many times. Booking.com is my life. One low-price option available more and more in larger cities are combination hostels/hotels. Since they tend to cater to young people traveling in groups in the hotel (i.e. non "dorm" portion) on a tight budget, you can find rooms for 2-6 people at a reasonable price per person and sometimes they will even have their own bathrooms which is a nice perk at that price range. I traveled to Spain, Austria, Budapest, Germany, and France with 3-4 people and while it was extra effort to find rooms to accomdate all of us, it's certainly doable, even on your budget. The places may not be luxurious but they are fine for resting your head. You might have to go over your budget a bit in Switzerland (maybe England as well?) but you should be able to come in under budget in Germany and France so it can even out.