Please look over itinerary so that I don't repeat last year mistakes

This looks fast paced. They Insist to go to Dublin but fear that it is chaotic like London?

I'm the one that is worried about Dublin being too hectic.

My only thought is to drop Dublin, and stay in England. Lots of England to see - we were in Liverpool, and there are a lot of historical areas there. There's the Lakes district, and Wales. Add one night to each stay, and do day trips if necessary. Personally, we like to stay 3 or more nights in each place. As it stands, 1/3 of the trip are travel days. I don't see why you need to take a late-afternoon train to Gatwick to wait all day to fly in the afternoon. What's with that?

I can give you a little reassurance re Dublin. Schools in the U.K. (Not sure about Irish Republic) are in session until late July. I think many European countries also have later ending dates than early June. Therefore, you're likely to find smaller crowds than you did in August.

Drop Dublin, that's way too hectic a pace with so many people.

I do love the Griswald reference, during my first trip to the UK, my jet lag caused me to wake up in the middle of the night. My hotel television had quite a few channels and I found European Vacation which I watched for a while before finally falling back asleep.

Paul, our plane leaves 10:55 am from Gatwick, so we need to be at airport by 8am. Sorry, it should have said late morning flight.

Did you have such queues on the last trip because you didn't get your tickets online and had to wait in the ticket queue and then the security queue?

The only tickets we purchase ahead of time was for Buckingham Palace. We did print out our vouchers for 2-4-1 deals, but nothing that allowed us to skip the lines. I could be wrong, but I think it was extra crowded last year due to the recent Brexit vote, which caused pound to drop and terriorist attacks in Paris.

I'd also drop Dublin. Ireland is a whole 'nuther trip you need to take at another time. :)

Free up an extra day by pushing onto York on your arrival day. Staying in London doesn’t achieve much on your first day.

If you don’t want big cities what about Durham, Alnwick, Whitby, Hadrian’s Wall?

Is a return to Windsor a must – if you’ve already seen it do you need to re-visit? Could your 12 year old have special days elsewhere?

Hi,

You are sure the train goes from Gatwick to St Pancras? I thought it was Gatwick to Victoria Station, from which the Tube goes directly to Kings Cross.

I agree about going on to York on arrival day, though you must be very, very conservative and allow a lot of time between scheduled flight arrival and train departure.

Bear with me while I expound on avoiding crowds. There are at least four techniques you can use to enjoy a less-crowded vacation, at least one that isn't all crowds, all the time:

• Visit places during their off-seasons (but you need to be interested in indoor sights if you don't have a high tolerance for bad weather). June will be somewhat better than July/August in Ireland and the UK, but I'm afraid there will still be so many tourists floating around that it will still seem crowded at the top sights. That's just the way it is.

• For your walking-around time, get out on the street early. (I fail at this.)

• Go to cities/areas that are not the ones other tourists immediately think of. Pick up a comprehensive guide book for the country you're planning to visit and read it. Pick an intriguing smaller town or two that's easily accessible from one of your base cities.

• Go to sights that are not everyone's #1 goal when you do visit the major tourist cities. If the main street is full of tourists and tourist shops, walk down a side street. You mention "old, historic areas". Those exist in many small towns off the typical American tourist's radar. You don't necessarily have to seek them out in London/Edinburgh/Dublin.

I'm not suggesting that you should totally ignore the Class A sights, just that you find some less well-known attractions that would appeal to your family and visit them as well. Do not set out on your trip with a list of calendar sights that will fill (or more than fill) every minute of every day. Allow enough time at a stop to do something other than the obvious.

I have spent about 2 years in Europe over the course of my traveling life. Although I have been to the cities that house them, I have never gone to the Eiffel Tower, Versailles, the Colosseum, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral or the Acropolis. I'm not all that interested, and I'd rather fight crowds at places that appeal to me more (like art museums). Yes, I am odd. But I don't spend a lot vacation time in places with wall-to-wall crowds.

Fred- I was thinking taking train directly from Gatwick to St Pancreas than walk over to Kings Cross area.

June 11th - Fly to Heathrow and take train in Windsor (2 nights)

Have you considered a prebooked car service instead?
I used 7-11 cars a couple of months ago, in the opposite direction Windsor to Heathrow and arranged by my hotel. It was only £17 or £18, an easy 20 min drive, and might price out better than train tickets for 3 people.
Other Windsor-based car services recommended by locals are: 5star and Windsor Cars
http://5starwindsor.com/
http://www.windsorcars.com/

Enjoy your trip!

@ Navajomom....That was my question if there is indeed a train linking Gatwick to St Pancras/Kings Cross. I know of the Gatwick Special that goes to Victoria Station. Then you take the Tube from there to Kings Cross.. I know that since I stay at B&Bs in Kings Cross.

Do you know for sure a train goes from Gatwick to Kings Cross/St Pancras? If so, then you're in business.

Thank you for all the information, especially acavan. I definitely gave me quite a lot to think about.

Do you know for sure a train goes from Gatwick to Kings Cross/St Pancras?

The Thameslink train from Brighton to Bedford connects Gatwick and St Pancras International three times an hour, most hours of the day and night.

I thought Thameslink ran 4 times per hour? Anyway stay clear of the Gatwick Express, it doesn't work well for you. You certainly could "push it" and make York the first night, as there are easy walking hotels right by the train station that are well situated for a York stay. You also could arrive at Kings Cross 2-3 hours too early to check into a hotel.

There's some Harry Potter you could pursue if you drop Dublin, Alnwick Castle and then the area around Glencoe, Scotland, and the Glenfinnan Viaduct north of there. Flying back to Gatwick from Glasgow or Edinburgh could make sense. Scotland for a 12 year old boy who likes Harry Potter is a sure winner.

There's a Legoland in San Diego, you're rushing your whole trip by including it here. It's probably too late, but in addition to open jaw tickets always check out 2 one ways, even on different airlines. My next trip to Europe, and the one 2 times past, were both cheapest as 2 one ways on different airlines.

I would like to add my two cents since I just returned 2 weeks ago from a trip to Ireland and flew from Dublin to London Heathrow. If your concern about Dublin is that it might be too hectic and filled with crowds, I think knowing it is a small city with a population of 1.2 million people, might allay your concerns. If you have already purchased your air tickets from Dublin to Heathrow, then I say, go and enjoy Dublin! There is a lot to do and see there. And, it is a wonderful walking around city, full of interesting bridges and buildings. I'm not knowledgeable about what interests 12 year old boys so I can't offer specific suggestions. I would suggest getting a guidebook from the library or Amazon. Rick Steves has excellent ones and always has ideas that will interest children. Glasnevin Cemetery, Kilmainham Gaol, Newgrange, Guinness Brewery - a fascinating place and one of my favorites in Dublin. You can check to see if your son can be admitted. The Gravity Bar has a 360 degree view of the city. Also, the National Museum has a few "bog" bodies that might appeal to your son.

Thanks for the information on the Thameslink, it will come in handy.

We decided that we will head directly to York on day we arrive and decided to drop Dublin and save for another trip. Deciding factor for my son.....we found out that now we will be arriving in Windsor the day before Trooping the Colour. When he found out he had a chance to see the Queen, he dropped Dublin like a hot potato.

If you're adding days in Scotland consider renting a car for a few days.

I think many European countries also have later ending dates than early June

I have used https://www.schoolholidayseurope.eu/ for planning.

But don't forget that spring is school trip time, so you may not have families, but you could have classes visiting from everywhere in Europe. My own son had an 8th grade trip to London and York when he was in school in Cassis, France.

At that age, my boys really loved Bath. We spent 3 nights there so we had 2 full days. Unfortunately one son got a sinus infection so we spent 2 1/2 hours at the clinic/hospital. They were great!

In Bath we took the Bizarre Bath walking tour after we had done the highlights of Bath. (they enjoyed the Roman Baths) Bizarre Bath Tour was recommended because our boys were 12 and 8. It is definitely not historical, it is comedy. We did learn a little but after a day of sightseeing it was a relaxing walk and the boys said that it was a fun thing to remember.

Their other favorites were Windsor, Stonehenge and the White Horses We had a car. We stayed in Salisbury for 2 nights and had 1 full and 1 half day in Salisbury. They enjoyed this whole area. It was slower paced after being in London.

Their other highlights in England were the Cabinet War Rooms and Shakespeare's home and the changing of the Key ceremony at the Tower of London.

Glad your son is excited about seeing the Queen. Not everyone gets to do that.

Have a Great Trip!

Thank you Mimi for all the wonderful information. I forgot about the Ceremony of the Keys at the tower. I read about it when I took my eldest son to London in 2009. From what I remember, it was quite a process to obtain tickets, but I think it will be a great experience. I tried to get to Shakespeare's Globe for the last three visits, but still have not made it. We saw the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh at Westminster Abbey in 2011. There is a picture of her with me and my son behind her. We're just a blur, but we know it's us.