Planning for the unexpected stay….

Thanks for posting this. We are going to France in a few weeks and based on the amount of Covid in Europe a positive test is not even a long shot at this time. Does each country have their own quarantine rules? If you are asymptomatic can you still go out (properly masked with an N95 and outdoors only?) I plan own talking to my manager this week to let him know my vacation may extend an extra week.

Thanks for the advice. Was thinking about this for our upcoming trip. Will heed your suggestions! Safe travels.

I think each country has its own rules. My correspondent was in Italy and not allowed to leave her room for any reason. Everything was deposited outside her door, meals, towels, etc. She stated she really missed being able to go for a walk.

Countries that require quarantine means exactly that - you can’t leave your room, even for exercise if you are staying in a hotel or apartment block. If you have your the sole use of a house or villa, you can exercise in the garden.

Some countries require or request that you to isolate, which means you shouldn’t come into contact with others, but could go for a walk if wearing a mask.

England has no restrictions, although the advice is to stay away from others. Sorry, but I disagree with the comment that only a small percentage will test positive. Here, an estimated 1 in 13 currently has Covid. I had a school reunion yesterday and 6 out of 49 people didn’t attend as they were positive.

Thank you Carol for this useful thread. Thinking about how to problem-solve ahead of time is a useful strategy.

I'll add a couple of things. I have NOT tested positive so no actual experience.

• Before my trip to France last September, I read a blog post by Cameron Hewitt who also suggested carrying a pulse oximeter to monitor your oxygen saturation in your blood. His theory was that if you were symptomatic if the number dropped then you would know you needed to see medical help. In one of his later blogs he might have changed his recommendation but I bought one and will take it with me again.

• I'd also consider downloading apps for food delivery like Ubereats and Deliveroo (which seem to be the main ones in France - may be other companies in other countries).

• I do have CC apps on my phone and have started paying my bills by those while at home so I am used to the process and can do this when I am traveling. I agree with your comment on having as large a credit amount as is available.

• Make sure you are aware of the CDC guidelines for your return back to the US. The CDC guidelines for return to the US may be slightly different than the guidelines for isolation in your destination country so you'll have to meet both sets of criteria.
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html

• Do some research before you travel on what you can do to maintain your health thru a positive Covid experience.

Thanks again! I'll be happy to read what others have thought of as well!

I realized I have one more item to add to the list

Plan for a way you could get a certificate of recovery via telemedicine. Does your doctor’s office have an app like My Chart? Your health insurance have a telemedicine provider or 24 hour nurse phone line? Save the names of providers such as quickmd to your contact list.

I'd want to be sure I was covered if any periodic bills were due shortly after I'm supposed to return home--auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, property tax, etc. Be sure you have a way to pay those online, if necessary. Alternatively, pre-pay them.

Fabulous advice, thank you everyone.

Another couple:

• I’ve been packing a pr of soft knit pants in case I have to confine to a hotel room. More comfortable for wallowing around in, lol!! I wouldn’t wear them out and about in Europe although I do at home. The ones I’m using now are 32 Degree brand I picked up at Costco last year.

• I wasn’t looking for them but I saw a pr of yoga socks at TJMaxx the other day so picked them up. I don’t travel with my yoga mat and would not get on the floor for poses but these will help with standing postures. I have a yoga app that I use and have a number of practices downloaded to my iPadMini that I could use if inside for a longer period of time.

  • I also have some resistance bands that I am contemplating taking with me. I’ve also got some youtube band workouts in my exercise queue.
    

Thank you for this. Can you further clarify:

1. So if I test positive before departure (from Italy) and cannot board a plane, am I then directed to a location to quarantine, or its up to me? (My understanding is the latter).
2. I change my flight to when? or do I test myself for X number of days until I am negative and then try to get a new flight?
3. I then arrange for a pre-flight test again to be able to board the new flight

I havent got my info squared away as I dont travel until July so am waiting to see what the protocols are then, but of they are the same as now ...

Jessica, I hope someone with definitive experience or answers comes along. I do not know the country specific requirements for Italy.

For entrance to the US you either need to test negative or have a certificate of recovery. The certificate of recovery can be issued after 5 days of either asymptomatic isolation from the time of your positive test or a series of requirements including fever free time if you had symptoms. It is key to have an official positive test to start that clock. If you have a positive test with a home test, get an official test ASAP.

Depending on Italy's requirements, I would think you should be able to reschedule your flight for 5 days after the positive test when you could receive your certificate of recovery. The challenge with waiting for a negative test is that your body may test positive for some time.

Thank you for this - I’d forgotten to think about the mail. Our mail will be on hold, but USPS will only hold for a month and that’s the length of our trip. The neighbor kid may get some spending money after all. It also got me thinking about taking more of daily meds as well. I had planned to take the proctored tests, but now think I should take some of the regular ones as well.

A friend tested positive in the Caribbean and had to stay ten extra days (this was a few months ago). She said the best thing she did in preparation for the possibility of an extended stay was to bring extra prescription medication. She has no idea how hard it would have been to get her medication where she was, but it was great to just not have to worry about it when there was so much else going on to worry about. She also got a letter from a local doctor with clearance to come home. This apparently wasn’t a big deal because the doctor had done it for other Americans trying to return home. I think the owner of the condo she rented arranged things.

Here's one guy's recent experience -

I’m Being Held Captive in England by the U.S. Government
I got COVID on vacation and can’t get back to the U.S., but the U.K. doesn’t care what I do or where I go.
Damon Darlin, Kaiser Health News

https://www.thedailybeast.com/im-being-held-captive-in-england-by-the-us-government-because-of-covid

Hubs and I are both over 65. Easily got our 2nd booster (so total of 4 jabs) this past weekend!!!!

We leave the US April 23; return June 14. I got Covid from my darling 2.5 year old granddaughter, about 3 months after first booster. She never had symptoms but tested positive and quarantined from day care, where she got Covid. Hubs never got it and we both cared for her while she was on quarantine. My only symptom was a 5 day headache. I was negative 6 days after the positive test.

If not for this recent Covid experience turning out as it did, hubs would have said our trip is a “no go”. We are on GO and will continue to mask and will enjoy our trip. But certainly hoping US drops the test requirement as well.

@going234
The article was interesting, but also shows what happens if you don’t plan in advance. The writer only needed to stay in the UK until he got a certificate of recovery. He hadn’t planned and didn’t have good information.

The goal of this thread is to help people be prepared so they won’t make similar errors.

Hubby and I are in France now. We left home on March 20 and return from Amsterdam on May 1. We brought 6 home tests and a thermometer. We thought about a pulse ox because we have one, but ultimately decided to leave it at home. We have everything at home taken care of so a delay won’t matter. I brought an additional 3 weeks of prescription meds. Comfy pants in case of quarantine, or realistically just to lounge in if we want. I could wear mine in public. I actually did wear them on the flight over hoping I would be more comfortable trying to sleep. No luck with that. We can afford to pay for extra lodging time. We have been wearing masks, even if no one else is. I planned that we would always eat outdoors, but that hasn’t always been possible due to weather, such as rain and snow. I’m hoping the worst of the weather is over. We are vaccinated and boosted and just have to hope for the best.

I do like the idea of bringing comfy lounging about clothing!

Thank you Carol for starting this thread as this topic is very much on my mind as I prepare for a solo trip to London on 4/21. I have 2 back-ups to my dad who can care for my home and cats, bills are paid on-line and there's plenty of credit in case I need to stay longer--worst case scenario I have people who would pay a hotel bill if needed--but I expect I would move out of my costly room into something less costly. I plan to bring self-tests and if I am positive prior to the official test the day before I return I will then have time to make alternate lodging plans. I am a planner so all of this is natural for me, but also a worry-wart.

I always travel with books--and plan to visit Persephone Books in Bath so I will be even more stocked up than usual!--and have a new knitting project ready to go, maybe some crossword puzzles. Definitely a thermometer and cold meds, and some comfy lounging pajamas. I will be wearing a mask around people, certainly without fail on public transit and the airplane.

I am wondering if anyone has thoughts on how to handle the hotel--let the place I will be in for 8 nights know I am positive and ask what options they offer in this situation, or just find something cheaper on my own? And how would I know for sure how long I need to stay on since it all depends on testing negative? I expect that the hotel would need to know the circumstances but will I be relegated to a windowless basement room?

@Christa, since you will be traveling to the UK, it is important to know what the UK requirements are. If my understanding is correct, the UK does not require people who test positive to isolate at this time. Of course, things can change between now and your trip.

I know you would want to be responsible and isolate, but I'm not sure that the hotel would be moving you anywhere or that there would be a problem with moving to a less expensive hotel. My son and I are going to London the first week of May. My plan would be to move to a less expensive hotel out by Heathrow for any isolation time. Do remember, you don't have to test negative to fly home. You can still fly home if you have a certificate of recovery which is generally issued after 5 days from the positive test if symptom free. If you test negative before that, great!

Edited to Add: New information is that most locations are requiring 10 days before certificate of isolation. There was a policy change at quickmd.

Bookmarking this one, Carol! Hopefully it’s just being proactive, but it’s always good to risk plan.

I think I will pack a small journal type notepad or small sketchpad. In that situation, it would be good to have everything noted that is happening or needs to happen, next steps, timeline, etc.

Something that I really appreciated when I traveled for work was to have something very small from home or something pleasant in my hotel room. Sometimes I would pick up a tiny bunch of grocery store flowers or bring a half-bar of scented soap. Maybe bringing a “just-in-case” small something to remind you that it’s just temporary.

I recently copied the below for future reference (I'll be in Paris for a month this coming summer) from a Facebook posting in case we tested positive. The US embassy site usually lists English speaking physicians. If you test positive often you will continue to test positive beyond the quarantine period but you can get a physician attestation after a certain number of days without symptoms which enables you to travel home to the US without a neg test.

Finding Medical Help
To locate a doctor, clinic, or hospital, ask around at places that are accustomed to dealing with Americans on the road — such as tourist offices and large hotels. Most embassies and consulates maintain lists of physicians and hospitals in major cities (on the US embassy's site, select your location, and look under the US Citizens Services section of that embassy's website for medical services information).

Great post --- thanks!

I wanted to add to my post from 4/5 that my comfy pants are joggers. Not sweatpants, a nicer material. I’m in Nice and I’ve seen so many women wearing pants like mine. I decided to wear mine today. When in Nice…

I also bring cold/flu meds, Imodium, Tylenol, etc., just in case. A nurse friend of mine mentioned he always travels with charcoal tablets in case of stomach distress so I added that as well. Another friend mentioned she always travels with an antibiotic. I had a doctors appointment before I left on my trip and asked her about getting an antibiotic. She prescribed one in case I get a UTI, which happened to me once in Germany.

Andrea - thanks for the comment about the joggers. We leave in two weeks and are going to be in both urban and rural areas. My go to pants of late have been my cotton joggers. I have 3 black, 2 grey, one dark olive and one steel blue! I'd already planned to take several pairs with me. I have a bummier pair that I can hike in and several nicer pairs that can be dressed up a little bit or dressed down, depending on the locale. And my daughter, who is my "fashion police/consultant, approves. I can wear them with my comfy walking flats, my tennis shoes for longer walks or my boots for wet/muddy outings. They aren't super quick drying due to the elastic at the waist and ankle but our shortest stay anywhere is a week in Paris so I don't have to be concerned about overnight drying.

Thanks Carol for starting this conversation. Your title says it all. Much of my work history was in triage and urgent care. This was pre COVID. That said, the tips reported here are still appropriate.

@Jean, your suggestion to keep a journal is brilliant. This would be very helpful if the need to rely on telemedicine. I also recommend a thermometer & pulse oximeter. I suggest a powdered electrolyte supplement for hydration if needed.

Pre COVID, we were in Hawaii & my husband had Bronchitis. I didn’t have my pulse oximeter, thermometer or stethoscope. I had to listen to his lung sounds by ear! I knew his lungs had become compromised. We headed to urgent care. He needed Prednisone, inhaler treatment & Antibiotic. After a few days he was on the mend.

It’s all about planning for the unexpected!

Thanks to all who have shared.

Thanks, Carol! All good information to know. I plan to update my packing list based on this. It also doubles my intent to keep wearing a mask no matter what the rules are.

"certainly hoping US drops the test requirement " - Well it would make things easier for those who are fortunate enough to be doing international travel, but it means that anyone, from anywhere can hop on a plane with Covid and come to the US. Numbers are way higher now in Europe than in the US. This thing will never end.

If you are in a country that allows it (doesn’t require you to be in a specific quarantine hotel) get familiar with Airbnb or other home rental sights. I’d rather rent a full private apartment and have my own kitchen (get groceries delivered), different bedroom and living room and balcony/garden than be confined to a tiny hotel room! Maybe figure out nice areas a touch away from the tourist center to make this more affordable.

Carol: Good topic. For proof of recovery document, you state 5 days from testing positive. However, the CDC site says 10 days.
Could you please indicate where the 5 days is stated? Thanks

Quick MD was using 5 days as the time frame but has recently changed its policy to 10 days.

Thanks Carol. This is a great thread. We’re traveling this summer. Paris is our last stop. My main concern is where we would stay if we needed to extend our time there for quarantine. We’ll be in an AirBnB which is undoubtedly booked right after us.

My husband and I are traveling to Greece in September. I’ve been thinking about what happens if the testing requirement to return home is still in effect, and I test positive and he, negative (or the other way around).

We reschedule our flight home, both quarantine for 10 days, I get my certificate, then I imagine he must retest — and if he tests positive, we reschedule flights again and quarantine for 10 more days??

So our Covid travel insurance would have to be sufficient to cover 20 days of quarantine and two flight change fees? Have I got this right??

@Charlene - if one of you tests negative - they should fly home otherwise -as you've described you have the potential to double the delay in your return

So our Covid travel insurance would have to be sufficient to cover 20 days of quarantine and two flight change fees? Have I got this right??

I think you want an insurance that covers more than 100% to cover a potentially higher cost for last minute airline tickets.

I understand the advice for all negative individuals to fly home, but I think that forgets an important thing. Not everyone who gets covid has a mild case. As long as covid still has the potential to become serious, then a positive individual needs to have someone stay to make sure they get the care that they need in case it turns nasty. Get separate rooms if needed, but I don't think it's wise to leave someone by themselves to deal with the illness.

Remember, brain fog is a common symptom. So even if a person believes that they can handle it by themselves, that might not really be the case when the time comes. Better to be conservative, in my opinion.

Gail, you make a good point. That is why I love this forum. Plenty of good ideas.

Charlene, yes, the 20 days is a worst-case scenario but possible if he tests positive on the day you are allowed to fly (or vice versa). The person who originally tested negative might want to test every few days while the positive person is quarantining. That way if they are positive, they start the clock sooner than 10 days out!

Charlene, I would send my Covid negative spouse home if I tested positive. I wonder if the trip insurance would even cover his flight change if he was negative. I think it might only cover yours (?)

It would depend on the insurance. Some cover only the individual and some also cover the companion. I make sure to purchase insurance that covers both.

Thanks everyone for helping me think this through. Gail, I agree, leaving a sick spouse to fend for themselves doesn’t sound feasible, even if non-symptomatic, especially as we’re both in our late 70’s. So we will buy insurance and follow the advice for self-testing but still plan for 3 weeks of quarantine. And hopefully this ridiculous testing requirement will go away before September.

There are several references to trip insurance in this thread (which has been very helpful btw). Are there any specific recommendations on where to purchase the insurance? And/or from which company? Ideally I would want something that would cover quarantine costs should one of us test positive and can't fly home.

@graciep
There are several threads already in place regarding travel insurance. You can search for these threads by going to the Travel Forum Home Page. There is a magnifying glass symbol, search box at the top of the page. Put in "travel insurance" "trip insurance" and you should get quite a few threads that you can check out.

You can see that many people have the same question you do right now!

So if I test positive before my flight to the US, who is watching me? Who is telling where I can/cannot go?
Does the test provider report me to “the authorities” and my every move is observed? We’re in France.

These are legit questions that I have. Flights back to the US on June 14. Did a self test today and negative.

People who have reported positive tests in France have reported that the health authorities were notified and followed up with them after their positive tests at local pharmacies and clinics. Your experience may be different.

The key issue here is what are the French government’s rules for people with positive tests. Here is a link to a good article.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20220414/tourists-what-to-do-if-you-test-positive-for-covid-in-france/