Plan our Trip Please!

You need to narrow down what you want to see in each place in order to decide how long to stay. You also need to consider how you want to travel from place to place -- train, cheapie flights? You might find that you need to narrow your list of "must sees" because you don't have enough time to get to all of them once you factor in travel time.

If you land in Rome on 6-11 and leave London on 7-2, you are only talking about 20 days to see 9 places (depending on the timing of your flights you may or may not be able to do anything else those days). Frankly, this suggested itinerary is much too crowded to be enjoyable, unless you want to spend all of your time rushing from place to place.
I would strongly suggest that you cut out several of your possible destinations and concentrate on only a few. Consider this an introductory trip and plan to go back. If you are not experienced in international travel, you can't imagine how much time and energy can be taken up just moving around from place to place.

There are many people here who would be more than happy to help you tweak your intinerary once you settle on one, but it's up to you to decide what is important for you to see and do. If all else fails, you could see a good local travel agent for help.

Rick Steves books for the regions that you want to travel to are really helpful and suggest itineraries--you may have to purchase several books or check them out from the library. It does take some planning but that's part of the fun!

June 11-12-13.ROME
On the first day, do the "Caesar Shuffle" from the Colosseum to the Forum, then over Capitol Hill to the Pantheon. After a siesta, join the locals strolling from Piazza del Popolo to the Spanish Steps (see my recommended "Dolce Vita Stroll," in Rick Steves' Rome). Have dinner near your hotel. On the second day, see the Vatican City (St. Peter's, climb the dome, tour the Vatican Museum). Have dinner on the atmospheric Campo de' Fiori, then walk to the Trevi Fountain and Spanish Steps (see my recommended "Night Walk Across Rome," in Rick Steves' Rome). Alfredos.
June 14 drive to Sorento (can we stop and see Pompeii)
June 15 Capri
June16 drive the coast to Salerno, and head for Pisa/Venice
June 17-19 Venice
Walk from St. Mark's Square to the Rialto market to browse.
St. Mark's Basilica. ?????
Doge's Palace.?????
Go up the Campanile bell tower for city view (in Oct-June, the tower closes at 19:00, so get there by 18:00 or skip the tower).
Enjoy the duel

dueling orchestras with a drink on St. Mark's Square.
Cruise Grand Canal.
Commence pub crawl, eating dinner along the way.
Gondola ride
GLASS Blowing.
June 20-24 Drive to Alps& Germany
Zermat
Black Forest (castle)
Dachau
Munich
June 25-27
Paris (friends)
June 28 Notre-Dame, Tour the Louvre.
Cruise the Seine River, take the "Paris Illumination"
Arc de Triomphe down the grand avenue des Champs-Elysées to Tuileries Garden. Enjoy the Trocadéro scene and a twilight ride up the Eiffel tower, visit Versailles

June 28
Amsterdam (Ann Frank)
June 29-July 2
London

We plan to drive after seeing Rome, and drop the car in Paris. Will train to Amsterdam and fly to London.
Should we just drive to Amsterdam?
Got lots of Ideas from Rick Info here.
Now we need hotels that will be $300 US per/night or less (for 5 of us).

I think you could leave out Zermatt and the Black Forest and do the rest in three weeks. Rome, Venice, Paris, Amsterdam and London (in that order) would give you several days in each place after allowing for travel time. Pisa is out of the way and could be saved for another trip. Combine Pisa with a trip to Florence later. Pompeii is difficult to fit into a trip to Rome without staying in Naples or Sorrento. You might arrange for a private tour to Pompeii from Rome as a daytrip. Or go to Ostia Antica instead of Pompeii. The subject has come up on this website before. In 20 days you would have four days of travel. A plane trip between Venice and Paris might make sense and save hours. You also might look for budget flights from Amsterdam to London. Rome-Venice and Paris-Amsterdam make sense as train trips.

David, your trip plans look a bit complicated but not impossible. Due to the range of ages, it might be challenging to find sights and activities that are interesting for everyone. I'm sure the 18 y.o. won't be interested in the same things as the 10 y.o. twins.

It appears your trip is about three weeks? My first thought is that you might want to drop at least one city from the list (Pisa would be my choice). The major cities (London, Paris, Rome) require at least four days each and in order to allow for travel days, trying to fit too many cities is going to use just about all the time you have.

I'm assuming you've read the Itinerary planning section in Rick's Europe Through The Back Door? I'm surprised that the Travel Consult wasn't able to help? One other suggestion you might try is to post your question on GuideForEurope.com (Itinerary section) as the text restriction on this Board kind of limits the replies that one can provide.

Good luck!

David, I honestly wouldn't try to do this trip. Not because it's not technically feasible, if you and your family are very nimble, but because it would be unsatisfying for me. (I'd rather see more by seeing less.) That's a matter of taste, though--not a criticism.

In 20 days I would want to visit perhaps 5 places, with others as stopovers or day trips. I'd want one, maybe two rural stops to recharge the batteries after those great cities.

Of your destinations, I would not go out of my way to spend time in either the Black Forest or Pisa. Pompeii is logistically difficult in this itinerary (less so if you fly into Naples) so I would only keep it if you value it enough to skip other destinations you propose.

These are world-class destinations so I am not going to make other suggestions about what to leave out. But I think your will have a better trip if you can all be honest about your priorities and ruthless about pruning things back.

Have a great trip!

OK, I am starting to see the light. My wife and I drove all over Europe 20 years ago and it was great. Now we are 5 and things are not the same. ROME is a must. We will do 3 nights and 2 full days in Rome. Venice is also a must and 2 full days will do us.
Pisa, just so they can say they were at the tower.
After that we can head out of Italy. We loved Zermat and feel the kids will also. Id also like a taste of Germany for them. Then Paris will be 3 days, Amsterdam 1 full day will do and London 3 days are fine. So we still have 5 nontravel days to do something.....Going South to pompeii/amalfi does seem to be out of the way...what other place would you recommend?

If you really are happy to move that fast, you probably could visit Pompeii, but I'd spend the "extra" time along the route you will take instead.

Between Rome and Venice is Tuscany. A night or two in a village or farm as a base for day trips (including Pisa) might be great and would break up the drive.

Between Zermatt and Paris is Alsace, the "German" part of France; also Burgundy (which is very French but decidedly not Parisian).

If Alsace isn't German enough for you (which it might not be), you could swing north along the Rhine and stop off along the way to Amsterdam, ending not there but in Paris.

I'd go for small towns after the big cities to vary the pace and recover. Any leftover days after that I'd spend in Rome, Paris, Amsterdam or London--you couldn't go wrong with that.

Keep in mind that my style is different than yours (not better, just different!) and others here might have more pertinent advice than I. Still I hope it's helpful to think things over.

I'd go for small towns after the big cities to vary the pace and recover. Any leftover days after that I'd spend in Rome, Paris, Amsterdam or London--you couldn't go wrong with that.

Big fat DITTO. After eliminating arrival days for major cities (relaxing strolls > heavy sightseeing on the first day), you really don't have much "extra" time.

Hello David. I travelled in much of western Europe. I totally agree with Swan. You will have time to go to only Rome, Venice, Paris, Amsterdam, London.
I recommend : fly from Venice to Paris. Fly from Amsterdam to London. And remember, driving a car in Italy south of Rome can be stressful and dangerous.

The only painting I would like the kids to see is the ceiling of the sistine chapel, and we will go to the Louvre. We don’t plan on seeing any other Art. The David would be the only other work Id go out of my way to see.
We also only plan on 3 churches (Rome, Paris, London).

A little story about the Rijksmuseum: My first trip to Europe was to Amsterdam in 1996. My primary reason for going was to for a soccer match at the newly built Amsterdam Arena. At the time I had zero interest in art of any kind. Just to kill some time I vistied to Rijks; it forever changed my life. I fell so in love with art, and especially the Dutch Masters, that I now plan most all of my trips to Europe around art museums/exhibits. Last February I even made a special trip to St Petersburg just to visit the Hermitage; the weather was cold and snowy but I knew I'd have the museum mostly to myself. I also have a room in my house covered with nothing but reprints from the Rijks. To say that the Dutch Masters are "marginal" breaks my heart!

If you are going to Zermatt, you could easily spend the "extra" days in Switzerland.

Here is our October-November 2005 trip with family of 5 (self, spouse, 16, 12, and 8 yr old). It's the reverse of yours but may give some idea.

Flew into Amsterdam, leased a Renault Grand Scenic II seven passenger car. First night at Vondelpark Hostel, took canal boat tour and visited Reichsmuseum (spelling is wrong). Walked around at night.

What we missed. Renting bicycles and riding around. Other Netherland towns.

What we liked. Canal boat tour.

What we didn't like. Dirty city, seems to cater to sex and drug industry. Museum had surprisingly little for a country that at one time competed for world dominance.

Drove to visit family near Koln. Visited altstadt, the Dom, St. Martin's cathedral, Roman museum, Ratt Haus.

What we liked. Food, sights, history.

What we didn't like. Nothing.

Don't forget, Brad, the Rijksmuseum has been largely closed for the past 3 or 4 years because of a massive reconstruction of the entire building.Just one small wing, with the best of the Masters, has been open for public viewing.

When we went to the Rijksmuseum, it was the Master's display (one wing of the museum). My feeling was, if this is the best they have, I'm glad I didn't have to wade through the entire building looking at more marginal works.

I didn't expect it to compare favorably with the Louvre or British Museum. But it wasn't even on par with museum's in Edinburgh, Munich or American museums in New York, LA or Washington DC.

After Koln- visited Bonn, Rhine, Romantic Road, Reutte (castles), Munich, Salzburg, Hall, Innsbruck, Brenner Pass to Verona, Venice, Modena, Vernazza/Cinque Terra, Piza, Lucca, Sienna, Florence, San Gimignano, Orvietto and Rome/Ostia Antica.

The trip was just under four weeks.

Kids favorites were Rheinfels ruins, staying at a Castle Hostel, Nightwatchman's tour and Crime and Punishment museum in Rothenburg, Salt Mines at Berchtesgaden, beaches at Cinque Terra, feeding pigeons at St. Mark's square, Colliseum in Verona (not a ruin like in Rome), ruins at Ostia/Antica and Roman Forum.

Parents favorites were Rothenburg, Salzburg, Venice, San Gimignano, Orvietto, Rome.

how was it having a car?
Parking, cost?

Marginal works?! They're the best of the Dutch school of art! The Dutch were the first to master the use of light in paintings....a major step forward (see just about anything Rembrandt did, especially his self-portraits, and The Night Watch. Vermeer's The Girl with the Pearl Earring (in the Mauritshuis musuem in The Hague), has to be one of the best paintings ever done...period. Her eyes follow you around the room. I guess you just aren't a fan of that particular school, which is fine...but please don't call them marginal! The Rijksmuseum was never intended to compete with the British Museum or the Louvre. Unlike those two museums, which cover the whole sweep of human history with looted works from around the globe, the Rijksmuseum, in the main, honours the Netherlands and its own history.

I have held works by Renoir and Picasso in my hands. Been able to live with and touch the canvas of numbers of museum quality works. Art has its place, but my 10 yo twins will find it hard to spend hours in a Museum.

The Louvre and the Sistine Chapel were two of the must sees I wanted to see on our trip, and they were two of the biggest disappointments. We were there in December 06, both were so crowded - we weren't there on a free day. My 14 year old didn't enjoy the Louvre particularly.I'm just thinking be prepared for the crowds.

Regarding the Louvre, afternoons used to be least crowded, after 2:30 to 3pm (closes at 6pm but 3 hours at a time is about right for some), and on Thur - Fri - Saturday. Avoid mornings. It's unfortunate that these things that are on our list of must-sees are also on other peoples' lists.

David-you might want to consider the Musee d'Orsay instead of the Louvre. I've been to the Louvre 3 times now beginning when I was 19. I loved seeing the Mona Lisa but all 3 times it is with a hoard of other people. Last time in Paris I went for the first time to the Musee d'Orsay and I LOVED it as did the kids (12, 13 & 15). I would happily go back here anytime. I just found the Louvre to be so overwhelming, so when you say you are not museum people I'd really re-think this one. You will have enough of the crowds in the Sistine Chapel but I'd still put that in no matter what.

Also, we were able to "do" Pisa on the way to our small town stay in Tuscany - we were probably there for 1-2 hours.

Though I really liked Amsterdam, especially the Anne Frank house, my 17 year old daughter found it to be as poster above mentioned - druggy & full of "dirty old men". She was on her own with friends so maybe she got some unwanted attention. I was surprised that it was not good for her.

Mona Lisa is all we plan to see. We will walk the halls for 2 hours and head out. Going at 3-4PM may be a good idea.

I dont know if you have factored in the extra cost of renting a car in Italy and dropping in another country.Ive found that the charges run very high.It might be better to train to another country and then rent another car.Just a thought.

17day lease is about $2,300 with all fees.

David, as mentioned above, I would suggest deleting Pisa. All that's there is the leaning tower, the church and baptistery and other nearby historical grounds. I'm betting that your children would really like to climb up on top but overall, it's really a lot of hours out of the way for about 90 minutes of tourism. I would suggest a high-speed Eurostar train from Rome to Florence which takes 90 minutes. Note that you cannot drive in historical Florence without a permit and there is absolutely no parking to be found anyway. A car is a very bad idea in Florence. If your children want to climb, let them climb to the top of the Duomo and see one of the best views of Florence. Since art doesn't appeal to you, stay a couple of nights and take another high-speed to Venice. From there, you can rent a car for the remainder of your journey. Just a thought.

As we get more feedback the trip keeps changing.
I still feel the need to see Amalfi coast, Pompeii, Capri, Sorrento beach. Rome I feel we can see in 2 days as with Venice. Paris 3 (time with friends). A quick stop in Amsterdam with flight layover will allow us to see the Frank house and a bit of the city. Pisa is also a must see. We drive 75miles each way to see a Vikings game, so going a bit out of the way is not a big deal. London 3 days. So we still have about 4-5 days to drive the Alps/Germany. Flying into Rome or Amsterdam is one ? Rent a car in Amsterdam and head south or after seeing Rome and go north? Amsterdam > Germany>Austria>Venice>Sorrento>Rome>Pisa>Paris>Fly to London.