Paris to London

The obvious solution would be to book "open jaw" flights, inbound London and outbound Paris. While they may be slightly more expensive than return flights, they save the time and money of returning to the starting point.

For travel from London to Paris, one of the easiest methods would be to take the EuroStar high speed train. Advance booking is required, and buying tickets well in advance provides the best price. THIS website will explain everything you ever wanted to know about the EuroStar. You'll clear French Passport Control in London, so be sure to arrive well before departure.

There are a number of stations in London and you'll be departing from London St. Pancras. There are about six main stations in Paris, and if you take the EuroStar you'll arrive at Gare du Nord. You'll need to take a Taxi or Metro from there to your tour hotel.

As none of you have been to Europe before, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip. It provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe. You'll have to get up-to-speed on things like accessing travel funds in Europe, avoiding pickpockets & scammers, travelling with technology, etc. You will need two different sets of Plug Adaptors, one for the U.K. and one for the continent. It would be helpful if you could indicate what type of devices you plan to pack along for the trip.

It also suggest having a look at the RS London guidebook, in order to plan the most efficient touring in London. There's a Pocket London version available as well as a full sized version, which would be a good idea to pack along. A copy of the Pocket Paris or full size version would also be a good idea, in order to plan sightseeing that's not covered by the tour.

Bon Voyage!

I don't know where you live, but last year I was able to fly from Washington DC to Nice (usually more expensive than Paris) and back home from London for an extremely low fare that wasn't much more than a round-trip to Paris or London. Definitely go to an airline website like Google Flights, choose "multi-city", and see whether you can come up with a good deal.

I just looked at the one way flights. Going to try to convince my friend to
go that way. It is a bit more expensive but we only have to take the train
in 1 direction.

I have never used google flights so will definitely try that. I will be flying
out of Denver as my closest airport Rapid City, SD is crazy on the rates at
the current time.

Our trip is a ways off. Trying to decided when the best time is to book.

How far in advance do you recommend booking the train?

Thanks for the good advice! I love forums for this reason.

As this is your first time to Europe, if you haven't done this already, I suggest that from the menu on the left side of the webpage:

A. select Watch, Read, Listen
when it opens, choose Watch the TV Show; a new web page will open,
1. choose Great Britain, then choose & view the 2 London videos.
2. choose France, then choose & view the 3 Paris videos
(Highlights of Paris, Paris Embracing Life and Art, Paris Regal and Intimate; skip Paris side trips unless you plan to stay several days after the Paris tour)
3. choose Travel Skills, then choose & view the 3 video set

B. select Our Tours; a new web page will open,
1. choose England & Scotland, a new web page will open,
choose Best of London and read the Itinerary to see what they do on that tour
2. choose France, a new web page will open, choose Best of Paris and read Everything.

C. select Travel Tips and browse through the topics.

Also, you can got to the Search box at the top of the page and enter Paris or London and find hundreds of articles and posts which may be helpful, including restaurant info. Watch the dates so you get up-to-date info.
Be sure to share what you learn with the rest of your group and have a memorable and safe visit.

Scrapansusan. You don't have to book two one-way fares, if that's what you're referring to. You can book flights into one city and out the other at a fare that is pretty close to a roundtrip fare to either. This is what's called open jaw or Multi City. Look for that option on whatever website you are using. Some of the discount airlines might have cheaper one way fares, but on the majors, multi-city are usually much less expensive than one-way.

Thank you I did misunderstand. I have never booked a multi-city flight before.
I have traveled extensively in the US but international travel is new to me.
I now know where to look.
Is there a sight that you recommend more than another?

I agree with the others that:

1. You need to do a lot of advance research, and SOON. Start with the travel tips on this site, as well as Europe thru the back door. Plus the London and Paris guide books.

2. Booking a MULTI CITY flight ticket (not 2 one ways or a round trip) makes much more sense in this situation. Use a good flight search platform like Google Flights or Kayak to find your flights. Since you have a couple of months before you really need to have them booked, you can even set them up for flight alerts if the prices fall. But when you find the flights you want, book with the actual airline, not the search website. If you have specific questions about particular flights, feel free to ask here before booking.

3. Take the Eurostar train from London to Paris. Bookings open up 180 days in advance and the earlier you book, the lower the prices. You need to arrive over an hour before your train departure because you will need to clear security and go thru both British and French passport control.

4. Since you'll only be in London a few days, I'd recommend staying at a hotel close to St Pancras station, for a couple of reasons. The Picadilly underground line goes from Heathrow to Kings Cross, which is right beside St Pancras and also has connections to multiple underground lines, making it easy to get around the city. And you'll be leaving from St Pancras to Paris, probably on an early train. We've stayed at the Premier Inn St Pancras and found it a good value, and only a block from these 2 stations.

scrapn,

One other option for booking flights would be a travel agent. While there may be a small charge for their services, they'll be able to help you get good flights.

It's helpful to know that you're in Denver. You might consider attending the next meeting of the Denver RS Travel Group, which will be meeting next on Oct. 20. Here's a link - https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/travel-meetings/denver-travel-group-meeting-september-15 . The helpful group will be able to help you sort out all the minute details of your trip.

You'll probably turn up similar options on any decent airline website (Google Flights, Kayak, etc.). It's really about choosing one whose interface you like and continuing to use it so you know what it can do for you. Here's Google Flights into London and out of Paris for dates I randomly chose next year:

https://www.google.com/flights#flt=DEN./m/04jpl.2019-05-11*/m/05qtj.DEN.2019-05-26;c:USD;e:1;sd:1;t:f;tt:m&spf=1539373624204

You can easily check a reverse itinerary, flying into Paris and out of London. If you have firm dates, change my fake dates to yours and take a look RIGHT AWAY. Those fares look extremely attractive to me.

As for timing, airfares for some routings move around like yo-yos. There is no magic timing for snagging the best deal, though you do not want to still be looking next April, because at that point you may not have a lot of attractive options (though something good might happen--it's really unpredictable).

My technique is to start checking costs as soon as I know which airports I want to use and have approximate dates. I keep a record of the best routings (non-stop if possible, or reasonable connection times that are not too long or too short) and what they cost every time I check. I try to check every day; it only takes a couple of minutes. After doing this for awhile you'll have a sense of what a typical fare is. Then when you have firm travel dates and see a fare drop, you'll be ready to take advantage of it. Or if you're already looking at a fare you're really comfortable with, you can go ahead and buy. It is not a good plan to start looking when you feel like you have to buy tickets right away, because there are sometimes inexplicable multi-hundred-dollar increases followed by similar declines a few days or a week later. Knowledge is power and will help you avoid buying at an unnecessarily high price.

I just bought my tickets for next April after watching fares for about 2 weeks (it often takes considerably longer). I saw a totally unexpected $300 drop and acted immediately. I probably didn't start looking early enough last year and didn't get a particularly good deal, but by watching fares for awhile I at least avoided buying when the price bounced up $500, as it did several times.

I found a great rate I think. $497 total

Wed, May 15

From Denver Intl. (DEN)
To Heathrow (LHR)

Web Fare · Best Value Best Value flight
British AirwaysBritish Airways
7:35pm
DEN
to
11:35am
LHR
9h 0m, Nonstop
Arrives Thu, May 16

Fare Rules and Restrictions:

Pay to choose your seats
Bring a carry-on bag

Trip 2
Mon, May 27

From Roissy-Charles de Gaulle (CDG)
To Denver Intl. (DEN)

Web Fare · Cheapest Cheapest flight
British AirwaysBritish Airways
12:05pm
CDG
to
5:30pm
DEN
13h 25m, 1 stop
LHR

Fare Rules and Restrictions:

Pay to choose your seats
Bring a carry-on bag

12:05pm
to
12:25pm
1h 20m

From Roissy-Charles de Gaulle (CDG)
To Heathrow (LHR)
British Airways 309
Airbus A320Food and beverage for purchase
Economy/Coach (S)

Total distance
214 mi
Layover
2h 15m stop in London (LHR)
2:40pm
to
5:30pm
9h 50m

From Heathrow (LHR)
To Denver Intl. (DEN)
British Airways 219
Boeing 747-400Meal
Economy/Coach (N)

Total distance
4,683 mi
Bag fees
Baggage fees when purchased at the airport (Prices may be cheaper if purchased online with British Airways)
Carry on: No fee
1st checked bag: $58.00 up to 23 kg
2nd checked bag: $87.00 up to 23 kg
Baggage Information: British Airways

Explain to me the main reason that I should book directly from the airline instead of Expedia or Orbitz.
I have always used them and never any issues.

I love using forums as they are filled with helpful people! Thanks

I'll go look at that fare in a minute and post again, but the reason most of us prefer to book through an airline is that if the flight is canceled or changed, it can be much, much easier for you to work directly with the airline to find a resolution. There are some borderline-unethical companies out there that are risky to do business with. Expedia, as far as I know, is totally legitimate. If I could save $300 buying from them rather than (the same flights) from an airline, I might well do so. And if I needed tickets for the whole family, I wouldn't hesitate. But with only minor savings possible, I'd probably just pay a bit extra and buy from the airline.

scrapnsusan, like many people, I prefer to book directly with the airline. If a problem comes up, I need to change something, flight is cancelled or delayed, I don't have to deal with a third party. Not saying it's likely to be a problem, but I have never found a significantly better price using a third party site versus directly with the operating airline. But then, in may case, an overseas flight involves a connection so you don't have to deal with that.

That looks like a great fare. Not sure how much better any could be.

I just looked at the same flights on British Airways site.

It quotes at $772 - that is $275 difference. I am only paying for 1 but my friend is
doing 3 so I doubt she wants to pay that difference.

I do have to say I am so happy I asked today as the open jaw flights will be perfect
for us.

I plan on booking this flight in the very near future.

Okay. That looks like the same itinerary shown on Google Flights at $683, so a large savings. Is the $497 price from Expedia, or is it someone like CheapoAir?

I am unfamiliar with the fares out of Denver, but those do look better than reasonable to uninformed me.

Allow me to point out some negatives (which do not mean that you shouldn't grab those tickets if you're sure of your plans):

Those are Basic Economy tickets, which means you pay substantial fees for checked bags. Do some Googling to find out what you'll pay ahead of time for checked bags, because I think the fee I saw a day or two ago was at least $60 ($120 per person round-trip). Also Google for British Airways' size limits for cabin baggage--especially if some of your folks might try to travel carry-on only. I don't do that and am not up on the current rules, but I know that some airlines now have 15- to 17-lb. weight limits (as well as very tight size limits) for carry-on bags.

Some airlines do not charge for the first checked bag on international flights, though I don't know whether there are any such airlines flying out of Denver. Edited to add: I don't see any well-priced tickets that include a checked bag.

British Airways charges for seat selection (not just in Basic Economy) if you don't wait until check-in time 24 hours before your flight. The website says the fee for "longer international flights" starts at $30, but I think you'll find you pay somewhat more. Persistent Googling may turn up more precise information. You might opt (as I have) to select a seat on the overnight flight and take a chance on the way back. Or you might not pay the (lower) fee for the short flight on the return but pay it for the long flight segment. Otherwise, those seat-selection fees are going to add about $100+ to the cost of each ticket. Adults traveling together sometimes prefer aisles-across seating, and I think snagging that type of seating at check-in time might be difficult.

When I was pricing different options last year, I found BA's seat selection fees to be the highest in the market. It wasn't a great deal of extra cost (maybe $10-15 on a transatlantic segment), but if you're buying tickets for four people, it's a noticeable difference.

I recommend Googling British Airways Basic Economy to be sure there are not other significant differences besides the checked-bag fee. Do you get any food, for example?

Your return trip involves a change at London-Heathrow. The connection isn't especially tight, but lots of people prefer to change planes at airports other than Heathrow and Paris-CDG because delays seem more likely there than at some other European airports. Also, many of us prefer to make our connection in the US so that if we miss it, there will probably be more flights the same day. If you miss a flight out of Heathrow, you might end up waiting till the next day to fly home. That is not likely; I'm just pointing out a potential disadvantage of connecting in Europe on the way home.

None of the above is intended to stop you from buying those tickets. The price seems very good--just perhaps not quite as good as one would assume at first glance. I really hate the way those Basic Economy fares just show up without being flagged until you get farther into the purchasing process. It's hard to make rational comparisons.

I am using Expedia.

I did check baggage fees were $60 each.
I am fine with that.

Food is another cost I didn't consider.

Since my friend is traveling with her
kids seat selection may be a thing for her. Not really for me.

I hadn't thought about the connecting in Heathrow part. Guess I will cross my fingers.

hi scrapnsusan
what are your dates for best of paris tour in may? you fly into london spend 4 days then eurostar to paris for tour then home from paris? you can look at eurostar.com, usually 3 months ahead to book cheaper fares, mark a date and when available book it. talk with your friend and book flights together so you're all on same flight. after that you'll start looking for a place to stay, hotel/apartment? you're gonna have a great time, do your research, reading, guidebook. any other questions ask here before you book and regret.
aloha

Somewhere I think I read that British Airways makes sure kids are seated with a parent (not necessarily that parents will be seated together). If your friend is traveling alone with her two children, it sounds as if BA will seat them together. If it's mom, dad and one child, that's probably going to take some luck.

CJean mentioned the Eurostar, which will be by far the best way for you to get from London to Paris (there really is no second choice, given that you know this far in advance what day you'll want to travel). Here's just about everything you need to know about the Eurostar, from the excellent Seat61 website. It says tickets usually go on sale 180 days ahead, so that will be pretty soon. You will save boatloads of money by buying those tickets when they are initially offered, but those tickets will be non-refundable and non-changeable.

Excellent assessment by acraven of things to look for on this fare. It does look good but maybe the other Colorado folks will be along later with an opinion.

I don't want to cause confusion but I'll just add something to put on your calendar once you get the airfare fixed. You'll want to book your Eurostar train journey about 180 days out from the day you'll travel. You'll get the best fares then. Try to arrange it so you get to Paris the day before your tour starts just in case there is any issue with train strikes or other delays. Here is a link to information on the Eurostar. Once you do your airfare you can come back and look this up!

https://www.seat61.com/London-to-Paris-by-train.htm

I will put a note on the calendar for the train.

Thanks everyone.

Our Tour is May 20-26th. We are staying the night of the 26th and going to
EuroDisney. That will be my next questions.

Is train delays a big worry? I may have to rethink our 4 nights in London and only stay 3.

Generally everything goes OK on trains but there were a bunch of strikes this spring and summer in France. I don't think they impacted the Eurostar much BUT it can happen. Don't cut it too close, which is why I recommend arriving the night before.

The last time I took the Eurostar from London to Paris there was some kind of cable theft on the line and we were 101 minutes late.

So if we have to be there by 3pm on Monday.

Taking a early morning train may be okay?

wow scrapn
you have accomplished quite a bit so far. the posters are great with all their do's and dont's. your london days are okay. are you spending one night in paris before tour or meeting group at meeting place day of tour from london. the ages of kids may get a discount, you have your room reserved after tour in paris or disney, see if can drop off bags at hotel and enjoy disney, spend night then train to airport. you all have passports and check expiration date, after landing in london check into hotel and walk around the area, have dinner nothing planned since you don't know how jetlag will hit you all even the next morning, something simple. one more very important thing is pack light!! you are in charge of bags and you don't want them heavy, trust us. you can hand wash in sink hang overnight, one day of tour you can find a laundromat to wash and dry, you will have down time.
aloha

How much you need to consider possible (though very unlikely) train delays depends a lot on what your next 24 hours are supposed to look like. Me, I just wander around sort of aimlessly with no commitments except a cheap-as-possible hotel room. I once waited for a bus that simply never showed up; it cost me about $50 for a second hotel room. You're heading for a tour, for which you've prepaid rather a lot per day. You don't want to miss any of it.

Someone on this forum has reported being on a TGV in France that was delayed 4 or 5 hours because someone committed suicide by stepping in front of the train. The train was headed toward Paris, and a lot of people missed their homeward flights that day.

If you report what time your first tour activity begins, folks with some Eurostar experience (I have none) may be able to make scheduling suggestions.

If you take a morning train from London St Pancras International to Paris Gare du Nord on the morning of your RS Best of Paris tour you should be fine. I think it is reasonable to plan for normal contingencies not once in a century ones. Could somebody delay a train by a couple hours? Yes certainly, and that while uncommon could happen to you. Could the entire southeast of the UK suffer a power failure and all trains stop for 8 hours? I suppose it could but it would be sufficiently rare that it is not worth worrying about. If a catastrophe were to hit you would have more problems than finding the tour.

So don't worry about it.

Trains from London to Paris take a touch over 2 hours, and you need to add in the one hour time change. Rick Steves tours tend to meet for the first group together at around 4 pm, if my memory isn't playing tricks. There are frequent Eurostars, nearly hourly in the morning.

You don't say if your tour starts on a Sunday or a Monday (or I didn't see it). It makes somewhat of a difference. Sundays in London there are often tube lines closed for repairs and enhancements, Mondays will have rush hour traffic in the morning. Sundays in London most stores have reduced hours and in Paris most stores will be closed. Sundays have fewer Eurostar trains than Mondays.

Sunday, at the moment, has these trains from London to Paris (both in local time:

08:19-11:47

09:22-12:47

10:24-13:47

and others later but you will be after breakfast and want to check in at your tour hotel and freshen up so probably I'd probably pick one of those.

More choice on a Monday:-
05:40, 07:01, 07:28, 07:55, 09:24, 10:24, and more later. Those 9:24 and 10:24 trains on Monday get in at the same time as the Sunday trains, at 12:47 and 13:47 respectively.

Although the official website still says a minimum 30 minute check-in to be allowed on the flight I, and many others, strongly recommend more like an hour. Queues can be long, one or more of your friends or you may be a bit slow moving that morning, and once you are checked in you are moved through Security and then to the UK Border Force for outbound passport checks and then to French Border control for inbound passport checks. You are within the EU (for the moment, or it may have changed by May, nobody knows) so as long as you are in the EU there will be no Customs checks. Then you sit down and wait for your train to be called so you can have a nice cup of tea, or coffee if you prefer. There is a Caffe Nero coffee and pastry counter as well as a WH Smiths newsagents in the waiting area after passport control. There are UK and French electric plug points if you want to charge anything, and free wifi.

So you can see why I stress an hour.

When you arrive in Paris you just walk off the train and follow the crowd into the station - there will be no frosted glass door or immigration or customs - it is all before you board. So very easy and civilised.

By the way - regarding a 4 to 5 hour delay because of a suicide - that is almost never the case. I worked in the UK rail industry for over 20 years and never saw one that took that long, and I've had my fair few over the years.

Most circumstances like that are planned to be resolved within 90 minutes - unfortunately we and the French have experience dealing with such things and have established routines. It would be exceptional circumstances to persist much more than 2 hours before trains rolled again.

"I hadn't thought about the connecting in Heathrow part. Guess I will cross my fingers."

To find out exactly what's involved in connecting at Heathrow, use their excellent connection website. Put in all your flight details, and you'll see all the steps, so there are no surprises: https://www.heathrow.com/flight-connections

And note the booking "open jaw" flights, into one city and out of another, works for domestic flights too. Just look for "multi city" or "multiple destinations" rather than "one way" or "round trip" on the airline websites, Kayak, Google Flights, etc.