Overwhelmed...where do I start? I Need the perfect destination

You can relax. There is not a single, perfect destination in the sense that others are inferior. There are tons of great destinations.

Your initial instinct was Italy and you are thinking about the fall That is very good timing for Italy. Italy need not be expensive, and it does not require a car. I suggest that you focus on learning about Italy and figuring out what area(s) would especially appeal to your family. You will get the most bang for the buck (the most real sightseeing time) if you don't try to move around too much.

iy2bme, good for you. Do it while you can. You would really benefit from reading some good guidebooks - Europe through the Back Door is a good overview with a focus on budget travel. There is whole lot to know that will help smooth out your trip. Then, when you are a bit more focused on what interests you, get a country specific guidebook for details. Also you can start spending time on the "Watch, Read, Listen" and "Travel Tips" links on the menu on left of this page and get a good feel on what things look like and how to plan.

The best advice to give now, is to be realistic about the time you have and what you can see in that time. Some people are comfortable with trying to see it all - London, Paris, Rome, Switzerland, etc., - in one whirlwind trip. Others prefer to spend longer times in a few places, to get have a more detailed visit.

Go with your gut. IMO, if you only visit one country on Europe, it should be Italy, . Take a look at the Rick Steves tours in Italy on the menu on the left, and see the itineraries they have developed. You can base an independent tour, following these loosely, and using the guidebooks to help.

But I will also point out that there are a lot of things to know and manage that make taking one of those guided tours a good option for first-timers. The cost may seem high, and sure, you can do it for less yourself, but there is great value in having them manage all the logistics and planning. You just have to get there. We did the Venice-Florence-Rome tour as our first, and enjoyed every minute of it, even being experienced travelers.

I would also second looking at a RS tour of Italy if this is your only trip to Europe. Some people love to plan vacations but it sounds like this is very stressful. RS tours take care of transportation and hotels, two things that tend to stress out potential travelers. You will also learn and see more about the country than you would as independent travelers. Just a thought.

Fly into Venice - 3 nights
Train to Verona - 2 nights
Train to Lake Como or Stresa on Lake Maggoire - 2 nights
Train to Florence - 2 nights
Train & bus to Montepulciano - 3 nights (take the local bus to Pienza for a day trip)
Bus & train to Rome - 3 nights

September usually has excellent weather, so you can enjoy eating outdoors and have longer daylight hours.

This above is just an idea to get you started. I tried to limit the nights at locations that are more expensive. The trains (& bus) are very easy to use. My husband and I have never needed to rent a car in Italy. Definitely pick up the Rick Steves Italy guidebook - lots of answers to questions that you will be having as you’re planning.

If you like the idea of a tour but RS is too expensive, consider Gate 1, but be sure to include additional costs of tipping and any optional tours that appeal to you. For a first trip I would definitely use a tour or public transportation rather than drive. If it were my first and only trip, I would also go to London-3 nights each in Venice(although I'm not a fan of Venice and would skip this), Florence, and Rome and the remainder of the two weeks in London. If you did that, I would go to London first to build up your confidence in using public transportation before going to Italy.

We had a great time with Exploring Vacations while visiting Ireland, which was self-drive but no problem. I prefer that to the cattle car tour buses. Very budget friendly and they booked nice B&Bs.

I would also recommend Italy with the Venice-Florence-Rome itinerary. October might be better than September or November. September can be hot and November can be rainy.

Jean's itinerary for Italy is a good suggestion. Another option might be London and Paris (or even London, Paris, Amsterdam). Or London, Paris + Normandy. Fly into one city, out of the other. (This is considered an "open jaw" or "multi-city" ticket, not two one-way tickets.) Take the train between cities.

If one of you has a working smart phone (HIGHLY recommended), public transportation will be way easier.

Don't worry about the language barrier at all. I've been to Europe a dozen times solo, and I barely speak a few words of the local language. Locals usually know at least some English, but it's typical to find people who are fluent English speakers. Otherwise, your smart phone can translate for you...somewhat. It's probably not practical to have a conversation with your phone as translator, but you can communicate at least.

My approach would be different from Jean's. I would not want to stay in 6 different hotels within that short a period. (Exactly how many nights can you spend in Italy--not counting the night on the plane?) To me that is far too much time spent changing hotels--which typically costs at least half a day when all is said and done. The packing up, checking out, getting to the train station, getting to the new hotel, and checking in processes take time. And then you need to get oriented in your new city. In this case, you'd end up shortchanging Florence and severely shortchanging Rome, where you'd only have about 2-1/2 days.

In general, Northern Europe is more expensive than Southern Europe, Western Europe is more expensive than Eastern Europe. Every contributor to this forum has an opinion as to where your European travels should be - I'm resisting offering mine, but I will add that becoming familiar with the RS "Best of Europe" videos (available to watch right here in this site) and checking your neighborhood library for RS travel guide books will offer a good start.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have the book Europe Through The Back Door- which is what I think confused me because there are so many places that sound wonderful. If you could only pick one area in Europe would it be Italy? Austria and Belgium looked very inviting. Or Greece? We will have 14 days total so 2 will be burned traveling in and out. I would love a place that has lots to do without having to travel far to see it. Would love to walk out of hotel and have lots of coffee shops and restaurants to choose from. But also have public transportation close by to go sightseeing. Does this place exist anywhere? Thanks again for all your help.

“Would love to walk out of hotel and have lots of coffee shops and restaurants to choose from. But also have public transportation close by to go sightseeing.”

This actually describes most cities in Europe. Public transportation is way more common there.

You’ll find that most hotels don’t accommodate 4 adults in a room, so apartments will be cheaper than getting two rooms. Look for places in the city center with two bedrooms (and make sure a “bedroom” isn’t a sofa bed in the living room). We stayed in 2 br/2 ba apartments in Germany, Austria & Slovenia for less than $125/night. Venice was most expensive at $200/night.

Italy is a great choice, and if Austria appeals to you, it’s an easy train ride from Venice. (I’ve been to Italy and Austria twice and love both!). Maybe start in Rome (3 nights min), train to Florence (2 nts), train to Venice (2 nts), train to Salzburg (3 nts including day trip to Hallstatt or Berchtesgaden). Flights might be cheaper leaving Munich than Salzburg, but Munich is only 2-3 hrs by train. Maybe spend last night (or 2) in Munich. This will give you two very different culture/history/scenery/food experiences. And no worries about a language barrier in any of these places. Just beware that Munich during Octoberfest (mid Sept?) is expensive and hotels book far in advanced.

if you are keeping to a tight budget, then totally avoid england and switzerland. generally keep away from staying in the large cities and aim to stay at nice quaint B&B's, Pensions, guesthouses etc rather than hotels.
one 'area' that we have stayed in a few times that offers a lot and is not expensive ( accomodation etc) is the general area surrounding Salzburg, berchestgaden, Austria- near the der dachstein. ( in the coming weeks we are going to slovenia- which seems to be similar- ie: lots of things to see and do at a reasonable price)
italy is also one of our favourites, but if you do choose italy then think of staying out of the main cities that are full of tourists. as the cost should be less and then just catch the local transport into the large city. if you are staying in a quaint accomodation , just ask the owner, what to see and how to get there. they generally will help you far better than any other info you will get.

for example near venice you can stay at jesolo, ( heaps of accomodation options) and catch the ferry over to venice. near florence stay in fiesole and catch the local bus into town. then within the trip perhaps splurge on a nice hotel in a city, where it is appropriate. this is the type of trip that we enjoy as you get to see more, and 'better' all round. and if you have a car it makes it easier.
another 'option' might be to visit somewhere you have seen in movies, like Salzburg ( sound of music), Provence ( a good year) , Tuscany (under the tuscan sun) etc, all great options with plenty to see in the surrounding area.

most of our favourite spots in europe are not on the usual tourist map. so don't always take the advice of others saying things like 'you have to visit (insert here, crowded, famous location)' just because everyone goes there.

hope this helps.

Actually, I think you need to consider your interests and your stress levels. As a first trip to Europe and an independent trip, I would find Jean's itinerary exhausting as you haven't even been in a foreign country in Europe before, to say nothing of worrying about transit, etc. There's a reason London, Paris and Rome are the classic trip. This gives you three different countries. Italy used to be much better, but now the crowds seem crazy so I'd reconsider going to Italy at all. 14 days is actually only 12 full days, and if three locations, that gives you transit days so only 10 full days, which is a little over 3 full days each. I'd suggest 2 locations and enjoy the heck out of them...there are always day trips. As a first trip, so you don't always have to learn new things, I'd suggest starting with London where you can get your travel legs before worrying about language, and then just adding Paris via Eurostar. There are so many day trips from both of these cities, that there is no reason to run from city to city to city. The only way I'd change these cities is if there was a location due to your heritage that you wanted to see. Otherwise, stick with the biggies, and just two, and make it easier on yourself, and be more thorough while you're at it. IMO

You can drive yourself nuts, thinking about missing out on X, Y and Z if you choose A, B and C, but that is something every traveler deals with at some level. I'm retired, so I have more time than most, but I still leave much-desired destinations out of every single itinerary. (I didn't make it to Paris in 2017 or to Slovakia this year.) I have learned that it helps to think of having the most fun each day rather than trying to go to the largest number of places. There is so much time lost in moving from A to B--most of it not involving fabulous views of things like the Swiss Alps.

What I'd suggest is getting a map of Europe (you can print a small one off the internet) and marking the places/areas that sound especially appealing to you. Then look for clusters of places that are close together. The already mentioned Venice + Austria is a good example of that. However, most countries in Europe have a lot of variety within their own borders, so you don't necessarily have to go to multiple countries to get variety.

One thing I'll caution you about is including too many tiny but tricky-to-reach destinations. Places like Hallstatt or a tiny town on an Italian lake not served by trains are nice changes from urban destinations, but you can burn a lot of time getting to them, so I think it's important to check travel times before you fall too in love with specific places.

The Deutsche Bahn website is a very user-friendly source of information about train frequency and travel times.

I think any place you choose will be the "right place". Europe has so many interesting locations, countries and cultures that you will enjoy any place you visit. We haven't been to Italy, but we've been to many other locations. You could fly into Amsterdam for a few days and then take the train to Brugge, Belguim (gorgeous city), then train to Paris for several days. You will have covered 3 different countries and cultures. All these cities have wonderful history, culture, cafes, and coffee. They are close together, so you're not wasting time traveling between each of them. All will have access to day trip tours either within the city or to places close by if you choose. Public transportation is easily found and used. Language barriers are minimal as many people know some English. Open jaws is a good way to travel - we frequently choose this method. Taking a 2 week tour is another way to explore Europe. Leaves all the worries to someone else. Don't stress too much as I'm sure you will have a wonderful time, no matter where you go. You can't see everything........

There is no wrong answer to your inquiries. While many places can serve as a wonderful introduction to Europe, I think for a first trip I would recommend Italy, in part for the reason that most Americans "understand" the Italian culture more than other European cultures. I love France, but it seems a bit strange to some ("They eat snails?....Ew!" The French have a stiffness to them that is off-putting and seems more than a little "foreign") and the German experience is perceived as stilted and confusing, particularly in understanding the German language.

Italy, however, seems somehow familiar, and the people are more laid back, demonstrating "la bella vita" and "dolce far niente." Jean's recommendations are very good, although I agree that changing hotels every 3 days can be difficult. I am crafting my own September trip to Southern Italy (not for beginners--the South of Italy is almost TOO Italian) and I view it as a perfect time to venture out onto the Peninsula. October and November are cooler, if heat bothers you.

The train system in Italy is amazing, and the food and drink are spectacular. The Italian experience, however, is the big attraction.

https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2015-09-25/10-things-we-wish-we-could-do-like-the-italians

https://bestlifeonline.com/italian-culture/

How much pasta can you eat? Bread? Gelato? How much red wine is too much? Consider the unlimited possibilities.

Adult daughters? Can you spell fashion?

Go Italy. I would limit my stay to 4 cities at the most, however, with the Big 3 (Rome, Florence, and Venice) and maybe a 4th which could be a little change of pace from the others. Verona, Ravenna, Bologna, Orvieto, Siena, are some I would consider.

So after reading all the great responses I’ve decided on Italy - early October 2019. Can anyone recommend airports to fly in and out of? Should I start North and move South or opposite? Thanks again.

Even though you did not mention them as possibilities, I'd suggest you consider destination in the UK. We LOVE London! Have been more than 40 times and would go back tomorrow if I could. It meets your criteria of easy to use public transport, lots of good restaurants and coffee shops (I believe, but we don't drink coffee- the tea is, of course, excellent). Also, you won't have the language barriers you seem to dread. With 2 weeks you would have lots of options. Personally, I'd think about spending at least 1/2 of the trip based in London (minimum of 4 days), doing day trips (with a tour company or by independently by train) every 3rd or 4th day. There is great theatre and music for your evenings. Then you could take the train, stop at York for 1 or 2 nights, then Edinburgh for another 2 nights, then head into the Highlands. Stay in either Inverness (city) or Aviemore (Cairngorm Mountains) for anywhere from 2-5 nights. Again, plan on some day trips (to distilleries, castles, gardens, Isle of Skye, etc.). You could fly home from Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Another destination we have loved and visited often is Austria. You could fly to London and stay 2-3 nights, then fly to Vienna. Stay there 2-4 nights, then visit Innsbruck and Salzburg- maybe 3 or so nights each. Fly home from Vienna.

If you are interested in specific ideas, feel free to private message me.

At that time of year I would prefer to start in the north for reasons of weather. Go to your favorite airfare website (I use Google Flights; others like Kayak; those are not the only options) and check fares and connections (if necessary) from your origin point. From my home, the two usually-cheap destinations are Milan and Rome. It may be different for you. You're looking for a "multi-city" ticket, not two one-way tickets. Try the trip in reverse to see whether it's significantly cheaper. If you have some flexibility on dates, do look at fares for the entire period. Traveling mid-week is often cheaper, and your cost may be lower as you get deeper into October. However, that month comes with the risk of more rain in some areas as well as cooler temperatures, plus the absolute guarantee of shorter days (less outdoor sightseeing time).

Venice 2N. Train to Florence 4N. Bus to Siena 3N. Train or Bus to Rome 4N. Take day trips from Florence and/or Siena. September would be best.

I consider 2 nights in Venice inadequate at the best of times. As the starting point for a trip that begins in the north (after an overnight flight), it would give you only one real day in the city plus some severely jetlagged/sleep-deprived hours on your arrival day. I feel strongly that that is not a good way to experience Venice, because it tends to have you caught up in the mobs of other tourists for your entire stay. You need time in Venice to experience the quieter areas.

For a trip in October, going 'southbound' would be my choice.

Richard has a very good suggested itinerary for Italy, given your time. My only ( tiny) quibble would add a night to Venice and one less in Florence. Suggest this only because that itinerary has you arriving in Venice and that 1st day is pretty much shot.

You’re talking about a shoulder season to offseason vacation 10 months to a year from now, there is absolutely no rush to get something booked right now, you have plenty of time. And seeing as it’s possibly going to be your only trip to Europe, you want to take your time deciding, and don’t want to give your decision of where to go over to some strangers on the Internet. Think about books you have read, movies you have seen, history and culture you’ve always been fascinated by, etc., and allow that to direct you. Better still, start watching Rick Steves videos, and see which destinations really appeal to you.

You’re talking about a shoulder season to offseason vacation 10 months to a year from now, there is absolutely no rush to get something booked right now, you have plenty of time

But it is black Friday there are a lot of good Flight deals through the end of Monday

As far as picking the right place, look at pictures and videos and read. To me, the right place is any place in Europe. The wrong place is any place you rushed through.

You will get buyer's remorse and suffer the Grass is Greener in the other field (or city) just after you book. We all do. We just place that fantastic place on our list of must see's for next time. If you can navigate an airport, then you can navigate train stations. Navigating metro and subways are easy. Just do research before you leave. Each change of hotels will eat up at least half a day.

just have fun!

Hi,

I would suggest going to the public library, look at the different travel guides, and decide from your research with the goal of gradually narrowing your visit list to the absolute priorities. Do you wan to see London, Paris or cities in Italy? Any top priority interests and sights? Decide on them, then you can figure out the logistics.

From your list of general interests, that could apply to most countries in Europe, France, Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, UK, etc. The key given your time constraint of 14 nights is deciding on which specific cities/towns and countries, ie here not more than three.

If you already have specific places or areas in mind, that's the first step in the planning. My first time over I wanted to see London but the charter flight then was landing in London anyway. What next? The next city priority was Berlin (then west Berlin in 1971), it was unimaginable and unthinkable to go to Europe and, obviously, Germany without going to Berlin, which I saw as an absolute top priority

In planning the places and logistics, you'll see the trip gradually takes shape, but keep in mind the travel distance and your travel style, ie what you can cope with or not, etc.

I would recommend 2 or 3 bases for your trip to avoid spending too much time in transit and stress whilst there. Do you just want to see the “must sees”? (Hate that phrase!). Do you want to visit small towns or the countryside?

Living in the UK, I find the main Italian cities to be more expensive and Venice is eye-wateringly expensive. I was disappointed in my week in Venice, although it is unique, but the food was very expensive, as is transport.

Reading through lengthy guide books takes time, so I would suggest that you look at You Tube initially to see some travel vlogs, which will give you a flavour of a place much quicker than hours of reading. Watch the RS videos.

Wherever you go in mainland Europe, September will have better weather than November, but places will be busier and more expensive.

My favourite European country is Portugal and of the cities I have visited, Berlin was my favourite.

“But it is black Friday there are a lot of good Flight deals through the end of Monday”

There will be other times in the next 6 months that airlines run deals (early January tends to be a good time.) Hastily throwing together an itinerary that may be less than ideal just to nab some good airfares is a false economy.

So you have decided on Italy. Good, that is a great start. Now you have to be honest with yourself as far as how much time you actually have. I prefer to plan by how many nights I have, not how many days. Then you get a true sense of how long you will be somewhere. Two nights = 1 full day, 3 nights = 2 full days, and so on. How many nights will you be in Italy? For planning purposes you can't count your travel time to Italy, where you will lose a night, or your departure day as most flights back to the U.S. (Where do you live?) leave in the morning.

Assuming your weeks are in reality 13 nights I would consider something like this -

Fly into Venice - 3 nights

Train to Florence - 5 nights
From there you could do a day trip to Sienna (bus city center to city center) and a day trip to a Tuscan village.

Rome - 5 nights

Fly home from Rome

With limited time and budget you have to take into consideration that every time you change locations it will take approximately half a day to pack up, get to the train station, transit to your next place and find your next lodging. Every train ticket you buy will cost money.

With 4 adults you should think about renting apartments. They can be very cost effective and if equipped with a washing machine can assist is packing light. With a kitchen you can go to the market and buy breakfast foods. You could even prepare some dinners if you are so inclined.

As someone who has traveled with family and learned a hard lesson, I recommend you all sit down together and talk realistically about what you each want out of the trip. You are not all joined at the hip. Don't be afraid to split up if necessary for the day or a few hours even, to allow everyone to be able to do what they desire. In a situation like that you can meet up for dinner and discuss what you did that day.

I only suggest 2 nights in Venice and 4 in Florence because I figure you'll day trip from Florence which will cut down time spent in the city. Wherever you start will be a blur and Venice is relatively easy (you can't get too lost, you won't get far). Rome on the other hand is better after you are in your travel groove and have some experience in Italy, it's just more intense. Venice is amazing to see but the cruise ships ruin anywhere they go. With limited time on this itinerary, it only gets 2 nights.

Richard, the cruise ship people are concentrated around a few key areas in Venice, especially the Rialto Bridge and St. Mark's Square. If you have time to walk away from those areas, you will escape them. That's why visitors need to spend more than a single full day in Venice. So many of the people who say they didn't much care for Venice were only there very briefly and didn't see the non-touristy areas.

It's my contention that it's better to skip Venice than to try to cram it into one day and not much enjoy it. Although I like Venice a lot, there is no law requiring every first-time visitor to Italy to go there. There are lots of other attractive possibilities. No, they are not Venice, but the Venice you see if you're only there for one full sightseeing day isn't (to me) the real Venice. Or perhaps it would be better for me to say that it's only a very small part of the real Venice.

I think Wray’s recommendation is excellent, the least stressful, and the most enjoyable.... London then Eurostar to Paris. A perfect vacation.

IMHO you need to stop, step back and definitely not book flights or get locked in to any plans. You need to do some basic research. Start watching the Rick Steves videos, go to the library and check out one or two of the guidebooks. It seems like you only have a vague idea of where to go, never mind the details of itineraries and other practical matters. You have plenty of time. Making commitments (like rushing to book air fare) now will only lock in expensive msitakes that you will regret later.

Stop, slow down, do your homework. There's no substitute for investing some of your time. Once you have done that, then come back and ask questions, float some ideas, and then start coming up with a general plan. Only after having done all that, and you have a rough itinerary, only then it's time to book flights. Until then, don't do that, it would be a big mistake.

Also...

I Need the perfect destination

No, you don't. There is no "perfect destination". Setting that as your goal will only result in disappointment. OTOH, if you do your homework and plan smart, whatever you choose as your itinerary will give you many perfect experiences.

SO well said David.

acraven, You make a good point.
I also agree with Wray that Paris and London would be a perfect trip.

Hi,

On the "perfect destination:" That is dictated by your interests, which ones are most paramount among the various interests you list. What may be viewed as "perfect destinations" by one is may be seen by you as not worth going to. My first two trips two years apart from each other, I knew definitely what I wanted to see as top priorities, which one can interpret as "perfect " relative to the individual, ie, choosing the perfect destination(s) is your individual choice.

Your interests are what matters.

In terms of a "perfect" destination, there may be many perfect destinations for you.

Even if there isn't one perfect place for you, Europe offers a lot of great choices.

As guidelines I love Germany and France in September. If there's a perfect month to travel, IMO it's September. By mid-October I like Italy and Spain because further north will get cold (at some point) in October and stay cold until well into Spring. In November, I prefer to be Rome or south. Temperature is only part of the issue, daylight hours shrink a lot more the further north you are. Staying south will be both warmer and have longer days to tour.

I wouldn't worry about language unless you are traveling to somewhere that gets no tourists. Even then, think of it as a fun challenge. You will come home having communicated enough to survive and happier for the memories. The most memorable things are always the things that go wrong, so don't try too hard to make everything perfect.

Our first trip was the classic London- Paris - Rome city itinerary. As wonderful as it was, it was not relaxing and at times we felt we were ticking boxes. The crowds and tour groups at major attractions were often overwhelming. The Vatican was choked with tourists. The Mona Lisa could only be seen over the heads of the dozens of people in front of us. This was in August / September four years ago and we weren’t in a hurry to go back again after the experience.

This year we travelled in September / October and mainly visited regional areas in England, France, Italy and Spain. We enjoyed this trip far more.

My advice is to pick one country and then visit the capital city plus regional areas. For example Paris and Provence. Rome and Tuscany etc. We absolutely loved Provence.

In planning this trip decide on where you don't want to visit, if that is easier, or, conversely, the places of top priority to visit.

As you are on a limited budget (I'm one of those too), decide what is going to dictate the trip, expenses or places to see? My first trip I had three capitals which were top priority to stay in and visit, ie, 4 or more nights, London, Berlin , and Vienna, based on culture and history.

If you intend on visiting towns and cities, absolutely no need for rental car.

Remember you can stretch a tight budget by picnic'ing (is that a word?). See https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/sleeping-eating/picnic-like-a-pro

And if you stay in an apartment you can dine there instead of going to restaurants.

Not everyone in tourist cities speak English, but it should comfort you to know that English is the Latin of today's Europe. Most people who work with tourists will speak some English because that's the language that other Europeans use when they travel. For that reason, most museums also have at least some information in English.

I think David has some great advice posted up there. There is NO RUSH to book anything yet. A few weeks of planning may wind up saving you a ton of money later on, because you'll know better what it is you want from this adventure.

Make a list of things you and your family would like to see/do in Italy. Look at the guidebooks or surf the web if nothing comes immediately to mind. See if parts of Italy seem to have more things on your see/do list than others. That way you can focus your trip on your interests.