Overly Ambitious Trip

Some will say that is too much - others - not so much. You are all young and the trip is only two weeks - for me I would want to pack as much in those days as possible.

The night train makes perfect sense - many here do not like night trains - I love them. It is a good use of your time.

Milano Centrale dep 23:05 EN 220

EuroNight Direction: Paris Gare de Lyon
Sleeper and couchette train , Global price , Couchettes , Bordrestaurant
+ 1 Day

Paris Gare de Lyon arr 09:55

For me the addition stops are fine - just be sure WHY you want to stop somewhere and what you want to do there.

You should also price out point to point tickets - then weigh that against the flexibility of the pass. Remember you will need reservations on the fast trains in Italy & the overnight train. The youth passes are a pretty good value.

Most of all - have a great time!

Let me start, as I saw this post last night and then it disappeared.
A 3 person Eurail pass for 5 days travel in 15 days, youth is $1014 US. You have 5 rail journeys planned and If you committed and bought tickets today, it would cost you 537 EUR, about $590 US.
3 days/nights Venice, 3 days/nights Paris, 3 days/nights Paris is about right. Now you have 4 or 5 days/nights left to cover Hamburg, Copenhagen, Stockholm, which seems you are giving them short shrift. But you need to get from Amsterdam to Stockholm, and Hamburg and Copenhagen are logical spots to break up the journey.

Also If you got a Eurail pass, you would still be on the hook for reservation fees from Venice to Milan(about 10 EUR pp), the Thello night train does not take Eurail passes, and the Thalys train to Amsterdam also has mandatory reservation fees which are in the range of 25 to 30 EUR per person when using a Eurail pass. Reservation fees are always included when you buy a seat outright.

As Christi stated, some will say it is too much while others will have different opinions. Only you and your friends can decide. Having said that, here are some things to consider in making your decisions.

You are going to lose part of Day 1 due to arrival, jet lag, and just getting acclimated.

The main problem with most itineraries is that it almost always takes longer to get from place to place than anticipated even when things go as planned. You will lose at least one half to three quarters of a day (if not the whole day) for each major relocation.

Perhaps you should pick out your three (four at the most) "must see" places and concentrate on them. You want memories of people, places, meals, and things you did rather than blurred memories of train stations and airports.

Since you are young the probability of returning to Europe is very high. In fact I'd bet on it. So perhaps a slower, less hectic pace is in order and you can save some places for later.

There is a lot of combined knowledge among the people on the forum, so feel free to pick our collective brains about most anything.

I am not crazy for night trains, but at your age, I didn't think they were so bad.

I think your pacing is good, for a quick overview of some spectacular cities. You could probably fly from Milano to Paris for less money than the night train would cost. That would give you a bit more time in Paris, too. Same for the flight from Amsterdam to Stockholm: on a 2-week trip covering as much ground as you want to do, money buys time. And the cost of air vs. train is probably not much.

Have a great trip!

http://www.interrail.eu/en/interrail-passes/global-pass
have a look at Interrail passes.
Eurail passes are a total rip off.

You must be a citizen or resident of Europe to get an Interrail pass. Others have to get the Eurail pass. They're just versions of the same consortium. One marketed to Europeans and the other to the rest of the world. I assume the pricing and restrictions must be a better deal for Interrail. Either way, you are better off by 50% to get advance purchase nonrefundable tickets if money is important. AKA "carefree" travel comes at a steep price.

We lived in Germany for four years and took rail a lot, but that was 25 or more years ago. Still, I may work for you. We took night trains several times. Once, my Wife and I took a first class sleeper from Augsburg, near Munich to Copenhagen, with a change in Hamburg. The sleeper had two bunks and you could lock your cabin. There was a sink as well as a slide out urinal (had to go down the hall for more). It was a bit expensive.

On one trip, we visited Berlin, when the wall was coming down and too a sleeper (couchettes--will explain later) up to Berlin and night train back with no sleeper, just a comfortable seat on the train.

On other night trains, we took couchettes. Couchettes are second class sleepers, with six bunks in a compartment. The compartment is not lockable, so your personal effects are more liable to be stolen. I slept on my wallet (under the small pillow provided). The couchette has three bunks on each side and a sheet on the mattress (not like a bed, more like a mat, but soft enough), and another sheet to cover yourself. It is comfortable enough, since you get to stretch out horizontally. Still, unless you have six persons in the compartment, you will not have privacy. Be sure and wear clothing that you can sleep in or have something available that you can wear in public and still sleep.

While in Europe, I had friends in Italy in couchettes that had some valuables stolen from them over the night. I think this is less a problem in Germany, but just take precautions to protect your property.

Clearly, your trip is not well planned, next time, try to pick places to visit that do not require extensive travel in between.

Also, a dan in Copenhagen is good. Suggest going to Nyhaven, also take a canal cruise.

This is my first post on here, but I think I need some advice.

What happened to the last thread about this trip, from a few weeks ago? Was it by someone else in your group? Even when starting a fresh page, it's helpful if responders can see the context of what was already said, including by our own selves. It would also help to know the dates that you have booked.

Does the night train from Milan to Paris make any sense?

Many people already gave the opinion that they would fly from Venice to Paris instead of stopping in Milan. This night train is not covered by the Eurail pass; only discounted about 20%. Daytime TGV trains on the same route require seat reservations that can sell out weeks in advance.

It is my belief that taking the train through Germany (with a proposed night in Hamburg), staying a day in Copenhagen, and then travelling to Stockholm would be a waste of time.

The train schedules don't lie - it's about 20 hours of train riding. The only reason to do this is if you're tied to a pre-purchased Eurail pass. If flying is about the same cost but 18 hours less time in the seat, I'd choose flying from Amsterdam to the first city you really want to see, whether it's Copenhagen or Stockholm.

Hi,

If you qualify for InterRail, get that. Your itinerary is doable,just do some basic planning, such as reserving at some hostels. They do fill up. Several times I heard at the Rezeption in the Wombats Hostel in Vienna telling callers on the phone that the hostel was booked up for the Sat. the caller wanted, etc.

You qualify for the Youth Pass, don't let the mandatory reservations deter you from getting the Pass. Keep in mind that the first day, ie day of your landing, is not an absolute waste because of jet lag. Not everyone gets jet lag. I went the first time a few years older than you, at 21, landed in London early in the morning, had no jet lag, had energy to waste. Don't bet on getting jet lag.

The EN night train to Hamburg departs from Munich, I've done it. Take the night train, it's covered by the Pass if you sit in the general seating area. You just pay the seat reservation, 4.5 Euro. Better to reserve yourself a seat on that night train since they fill up too.

Fred's got some good advice. Most of us on this forum haven't been 18 in a very long time. We've forgotten what is possible. lol

I agree with the others. I took a trip when I was 20 and loved it. Your trip is not too ambitious. When travelling others, including friends, it is important to make sure you have the same goals for your trip. do you want to see the sites? Are you willing to get up early or does everyone want to stay up late at the hostels drinking and sleep late? It makes a big difference. On one trip, a friend who said she would eat different food, changed her mind and would only eat pizza and Mexican food. After the second day, we went to dinner twice, once to find her then to find local food for me. It was a miserable trip due it differing expectations.

@ celeste..."Most of us haven't been 18 in a very long time." That applies to me too, just about half a century.

Regardless of your age, this is too ambitious for at least one important reason. If one of your connections is delayed or canceled, you might end up sitting in an airport or train station for a day or overnight, and that's a day you will wish you could have added to another stop.

The other reason this is too ambitious is that you are going to Europe to see Europe, but on this schedule you will mostly see train stations, tourist trap restaurants, trinket shops, and a couple of major sights. So my admonishment is intended to help you have a GOOD TIME not just to be a grouch.

I"d suggest arriving in Venice, see Venice for a couple of days (It's an exhausting city -- like a game of chutes and ladders, it's hard to get around and required a lot of walking over bridges and through narrow passages. Getting lost is part of the fun and the frustration. You'll see what I mean.

If you must see Milan, take the train, spend the night there and then FLY to Paris. If you can skip it (milan does not normally rank as a major stop for first-time Europe visitors) FLY to Paris directly.

From Paris take the train to Amsterdam, and enjoy your three days there.

From Amsterdam you may wish to take the train to Hamburg OR you could ride to Berlin for a couple of days.

Then you should FLY to stockholm and, unfortunately, you may not see much of stockholm before your flights depart.

I think you have to choose whether you want to actually see stockholm or you want to see Germany. Berlin is a pretty amazing place, at your age I'd probably recommend it.

The other option is skip Germany - I think your instinct that it's a waste of precious time, in this itinerary, is somewhat accurate.

Flights within Europe on Budget carriers are affordable and Europeans use them very often for distances that are too long on a train.
I try to avoid flying when on vacation but you should be able to get cheap connections to help this trip "work".

With the exception of the overnight Milan to Paris your train trips are about 5 hrs each. When you add up the time required to get to/from airports and the early arrival time required PLUS the general hassle of flying - you are about 5 hrs as well. The trains go city center to city center in a much more relaxed fashion with a better view too.

In all of my travels on a train in Europe I have only missed a connection ONCE - we were delayed on a train en route and did not arrive at our next stop until after the trains quit running for the night. No biggie - we hung out in the Bologna train station for about 4 hrs with over 100 young girls who had been in Bologna to see a Jamiroquai concert - most British school girls!

I would not let the prospect of possibly missing a connection govern my route or method of travel.

I too would not worry about jet lag.

We have taken some trips that would make some folks heads spin! We had a ball and found places we knew we wanted to to return.

My thought exactly..I don't worry about jet lag or the possibility of missed trains either, only canceled trains, ie, those trains listed on the yellow Abfahrt/Departure schedule after checking all the footnotes but not on the blue electronic board, which I only found to be the case in 2015. That was a fluke. Bottom line: figure out your priorities for the trip, whether you want to save places for the next trip.

@ Fred - From your many comments about where you've traveled and when, I knew it's been a long time since high school. ;)
But you're also a fearless traveler and young-at-heart, and your suggestions to an 18 year old, with lots of energy, appear more realistic than our typical, "SLOW DOWN" responses to middle aged folks with kids.
Ah, to be 18 again, with the experience we have now...

@ Celeste...Thanks for the generous compliments. I don't consider myself "fearless" but a bit conservative in my solo travels in Europe. Going over the first time solo and mostly the second time, you learn a lot about yourself and traveling. Barring any health or physical issues, I see it like this: if the locals can do it, so can I, and I had better be able too. Your point is well taken on being youthful with the accompanying travel knowledge and experience.

If this is your desired routing ...
Venice > Milan > Paris > Amsterdam > Hamburg > Copenhagen > Stockholm
... then my thinking to include all of these places is a minimum of 20 nights. That means getting rid of 2 stops (from Milan/Paris/Hamburg/ Copenhagen).

Two options I think ...

Venice (3) > Milan (2) > Paris (3) > Amsterdam (3) > fly to Stockholm (3)

Venice (3) > fly to Amsterdam (3) > Hamburg (2) > Copenhagen (3) > Stockholm (3)