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Posted by
1878 posts

This is why I never travel in the summer, that and the heat. I was in Rome in late October 2016 and the video footage of the Spanish Steps is not that crowded for that sight. I would characterize the footage of the Trevi Fountain as moderate compared to what I witnessed. Crowding is a good reason to diversify an itinerary--if you only go to the cities that are big draws, and you go in August, you have to know what you are setting yourself up for and accept that.

Posted by
7050 posts

There are a gazillion places (including outside of Europe) that are underrated and don't see much tourists at all, or they are so spread with only a few large population centers that you can have the place to yourself (Bulgaria, Canada, Argentina, New Zealand, Northern CA, Wyoming, etc.). There's no need to go to the Top Ten places in peak season if you have the flexibility to visit at other times. Another thing to remember is that mosts tourists to Europe are from other countries in Europe. I doubt the political system will somehow successfully deal with this backlash, as the countries themselves love the tourist spending but not the negatives...it's hard to have a happy balance.

Posted by
14197 posts

Same at home...here's an article from the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies regarding crowding at US National Parks.

http://e360.yale.edu/features/greenlock-a-visitor-crush-is-overwhelming-americas-national-parks

I will also say that I was in Paris for a week last August starting the 20th. It was hot as h*ll but there were no crowds, no lines. I literally walked in to the security area at Ste-Chapelle, mostly to see if they were open. They were, it wasn't on my agenda but what the heck, no line I'd be an idiot not to re-visit! It was way too hot for me so I will not go in summer but it was a terrific time to visit if you can stand the heat.

Posted by
14580 posts

I go in the summer, early to late. True, the crowds can be taxing and annoying esp on the trains, the ICE included. The heat I just have to put up with since it is trade-off with the pros and cons of summer travel. It has been several years since I was in Paris in August. It can be a broiler.

As the song says, "I love Paris in the summer when it sizzles."

Posted by
2030 posts

I think major tourist areas and cities should limit the amount of people who are there at one time. I'm willing to make a reservation and wait my turn. Of course the tourism industry won't be happy if this happens, but the locals, (and the tourists who value visiting places where you can enjoy the sights and ambience, rather than the crowds) will love it. Wonder who the cities and governments will listen to?

Posted by
4623 posts

Funny how much of the angst is aimed at cruises. Another reason why I will never take a cruise.

Posted by
1498 posts

Interesting that they only mention southern european countries. I've been struggling planning our trip next year. I really prefer not to go in summer, but one thing we want to do that is really important to us is hiking in Switzerland. The last time we went was in mid June which was just too early for all of the hikes we wanted to do to be open. So - for this trip we are starting in early June and ending in Switzerland on July 15th. I'm really trying to plan the timing with maximizing hiking while minimizing crowds, but it's not easy!

Posted by
327 posts

Summer tourism overcrowding is not just limited to European hot spots, Hawaii or US national parks ... the last weekend in July, local friends with US guests waited 4+ hours in line to ride the Gondola in Banff National Park in Alberta! Canada's busiest national park (3.6 million visitors and 7,800 residents) has seen increases in visitation the past two years ... and now with free national parks admission for 2017, the influx is even greater (and not a cruise ship in sight ... ).

Posted by
54 posts

It seems like there are just more travelers everywhere nowadays. I live in a place that draws many tourists and it's definitely gotten much busier over the past 10 years. August is the worst month at home with too much traffic, long waits at restaurants, and no space on the beach, so we're packing up and heading to Scandinavia. I'm sure the Scandinavians will feel the same about us as we feel about our tourists.

Posted by
85 posts

I agree Agnes...Northern California is great, especially on the coast. I'd move there....if it weren't part of California.

Posted by
7050 posts

I'd move there....if it weren't part of California.

I happen to love CA (lived there 20+ years and love all parts of it)...don't understand the bashing. There's a reason it gets massive tourism all year round. Beautiful coastline, great weather, great food, diversity of landscapes and people, lots to do and see throughout the state (including many State and National Parks)...traffic not so good though.

Posted by
3941 posts

I prefer Sept to early Oct. This year we went in April because - well, there aren't any tulips blooming in the NL in Sept. Next year we will travel most likely in May, but only because I already am thinking of doing Venice at Carnivale in 2019, and don't want to travel in Sept, then again in Feb. But even Sept is pretty busy. I do recall our first visit to Venice, which was the last week of Sept. We were commenting to a merchant on the Rialto Bridge about the crush of people. He said - this is nothing, you should be here in July and August. The mind boggles, I couldn't even imagine because it already seemed insanely crowded. That being our first trip to Europe, it pretty much cemented my desire to travel during shoulder season.

One place I noticed a huge difference in time of year. Back in 01, we travelled to Ontario and did Niagara Falls...at the end of June, pretty much Canada Day weekend. Last year, we went to Niagara Falls in May - well, I thought a zombie apocalypse was happening. Everything was up and running, but barely a soul to be seen. It was bizarre, especially after my recollections of our visit before when it was crazy with people. Of course, many families can only travel in the summer months because of school holidays. We don't have kids, so we aren't tied to school holidays.

And I have def learned the joys of early morning walks to sights (6:30am) to experience them almost people free. I went to the IAmsterdam sign around 7am and there were 4 other people there.

And for the record - loved our visit to California. We went in late Sept/early Oct. It was perfect, and I really hope some year we can return and take the PCH a little more leisurely! Love SF, would like to spend a few more days in LA...San Diego tho - had enough of that...lol.

Posted by
3521 posts

Places around the world are constantly looking for ways to increase business in their shops and restaurants, so they spend huge amounts on advertisements and infrastructure to draw tourists. Then they complain there are too many tourists if their plans work.

Well, the truth is there are too many people now who have the ability to travel and it is simply too easy to find affordable transportation when you want to travel. These places complaining should just enjoy it while they can because the next major economic downturn is probably not that far in the future and that will solve the crowding issues.

Posted by
1172 posts

Those were some great reads.

We travel mostly in the summer as we have school aged kids that have now reached the age, were pulling them out to travel is not feasible.

People definitely travel a lot more than they used to... partly it is easier and partly because it is relatively cheaper. As a kid, we never flew as a family.. always took road trips.... we fly with our kids all the time and so does everyone we know. I also keep reading articles about the shift that is happening in consumerism... away from things and towards experiences like travel, the theatre and restaurants.

I think part of the backlash as well is cultural.... it is not just about the crowds but the cultural behaviours of the crowds that may be very different from the culture of the locals... I even see different tourists' cultures intersect...
We live in interesting times that is for sure

Posted by
8609 posts

Any word that the backlash is targeting people wearing cargo shorts, logo t-shirts and fanny packs?

Posted by
2829 posts

In democratic socieites, there is no way to just "ban" tourists, short of going back to a pre-modern world of city-entry passes and the like. I do not like the idea of living in such societies where whole cities are subject to gatekeeping.

What governments (at all levels) can do is to control how many hotels are built, and where. They can also have some control over the size and capacity of transportation infrastructure (however, artificially preventing airport or railway capacity expansion will also cripple local mobility for locals involved in other activities other than tourism, and will also raise price across the board). Restrictions on tourist accommodation lead to a direct rise in prices, at least in world-class destinations that don't become significantly less attractive to an increasing local audience because accommodation now costs 40% more...

I also think the issue of tourism in big European cities is vastly overblown. In all major European cities that get millions of visitors, it rarely takes a couple hundred meters to get significantly away from major tourist crowds. In places full of whining vocal locals that made it to the press recently, such as Barcelona or Rome, major sidewalk congestion and 'takeover' of local business storefronts by souvenir shops is restricted to a few neighborhoods where only a small % of the population lives. It is a classic whining by people being gentrified out of their neighborhood by the coming of people with (temporary) higher purchasing power than kick them out of their rented residences and/or make tacky souvenirs or thematic restaurants more lucrative than run-of-the-mill supermarkets catering for a non-traveling audience.

From my extensive experience in Amsterdam, that is certainly the case there: on any given day there will be dozens of thousands of overnight visitors and more that come for day trips unrelated to work. Even at the most crowded weekends, it never takes more than 10 minutes walking to get away from 95% of the crowding.

AirBnB and other tourist residential rentals are a specific concern, in particular when it happens in multi-family buildings that were not built for, nor planned for, a transient population going in and out.

On smaller places like Cinque Terre or Venezia (archipelago), many locals are on a want-to-have-cake-and-eat-it-too whims. Italy itself has many medium and small towns that are going through the motions of demographic and economic doom, as the business activities that once propelled them are just no longer viable and young people mostly leave for better prospects elsewhere. The archipelago of Venezia, beautiful as it mightbe, is damned as place apt for modern life. It is utterly expensive to maintain the buildings, to provide modern amenities, it is impossible to make the place fully adapted for people with restricted mobility, and outdated industries, however charming, have no modern competitiveness. If not for tourism, Venezia (archipelago) would risk becoming either a ghost-ish town with many closed/abandoned buildings, or (more likely, since it is Italy), perennial whinners demanding more and more subsidies to keep living where they were.

When Vernazza was destroyed, they were really insisting that visitors came back next year, to help the town out. Without tourism, Vernazza would be one of those places that never fully recovered from a natural disaster in Italy and left in a semi-ruinous state.

Finally, more people like to chat about going off-the-beaten path but few people take the chances of "missing out" on the most famous sights. Which is why I mostly gave up trying to give tips when people come asking for "unusual" tips and places in a given region of Europe, only for me to realize they actually want validation for their "top-checklist" itinerary.

Posted by
14580 posts

Fanny packs? I wear a fanny pack/waist belt.

Posted by
18613 posts

"Why anyone goes to these popular destinations is beyond me." Is it?
It's pretty straightforward I'd have thought. They're the places with
the stuff we want to see. They didn't become popular by accident.

Keith, the obvious is lost on some people.

But it does emphasize the importance of research so your expectations are based on reality and proper planning to ensure enjoyment. And it does create among some a desire to reach beyond and find new things to explore.

Part of the problem is that we let people travel who will gain no useful insight from that travel. We need to develop tests from which we can determine who will be allowed to go where. Naaaaaaaa........

Posted by
2466 posts

You just have to turn off the Champs-Elysees ( or the equivalent ) and normally you'll be all right.
Drinks and food are generally cheaper, too.

Posted by
2623 posts

I don't get the CA bashing either, I still live in the charming little island town I was born in and it's just across the bay from San Francisco--which happens to be my favorite city in the world along with Budapest. I can't travel in the summer months due to my job and that is fine with me as I can't deal with the heat and over-crowding--though when I visited London, Vienna and Budapest in mid-August I didn't find any of them horrifically crowded.

Posted by
1498 posts

Christa - you must not go to Yosemite in the summer! We go to Yosemite pretty much annually. Last year we went in August and will certainly NEVER make that mistake again! This year we went in May and it was extremely crowded! I would say over the past 10 years it has gotten much more crowded every year being a little worse. One thing I noticed this year is there are a lot more people coming in for the day. Big tour busses full of visitors from around the world (well - mostly asia). The only saving grace is that there is limited housing / camping spots so the number of people there overnight is pretty well fixed.

It's not just Yosemite though. We spend a lot of time in National Parks - here in the US and in Canada. We have found that if you want to get a parking spot at a trail head you have to get there very early in the morning. And the major spots in the more popular National Parks are over run with tour busses. The only way to avoid the crowds is to go off season, but then the hiking opportunities are not there, and some roads and areas are not accessible.

Posted by
85 posts

I'm was not bashing California. As in said, I would like to live there, but I think the current cost of it outweighs the benefits. That's just my opinion, if you're happy there, good for you.

Posted by
3060 posts

I won't go back to CA for any reason. We had a horrible experience in SF 8 years ago.

There are places that I really enjoy that I would not go to in the summer. Dubrovnik is a charming place. During the summer, it is horrible since many cruise boats dock there. The town is small, and 2 tour boats could fill it to the brim. We went in Nov and it was not busy at all. Now that our children are fledged, we can travel in the shoulder seasons, and those make the most sense if you have that flexibility.

I have no interest in many tourist destinations anymore. I've been to Paris 3 or so times, and we probably will not go back. Too many other small places in France that are better, less crazy, less expensive. I have no interest in Venice or that kind of place.

We were in the Finisterre (part of Bretagne) this summer, and I am ready to buy a house there. So pleasant and rural. I won't return to London, unless I can stay with a friend - so expensive. Budapest, Vienna, and the Balkans are my favorite places now.

Posted by
14580 posts

The last time I was in Budapest was a day trip in early June 2015. It wasn't too crowded, at least, not for me since I have a some tolerance for crowds, but I did notice compared to the last two day trips to BP in May 2010 and May 2014, the tourist areas (Castle Hill, etc ) were more crowded in terms of tour buses. In Vienna this trip I was one day at the Stephansdom ca 1830 hrs and it was packed, certainly more than one tour group was there, at two different Chinese groups, an Italian group. etc It was a surprise since usually around 6-7 pm or so I'm at dinner, not in a heavily inundated tourist place.

Posted by
3941 posts

Wow - SF must have been horrible to write a whole state off...that would be like me writing off Germany because Munich wasn't that much fun. There are some amazing sites in CA! Ah well...

Posted by
4012 posts

Backlash??? Notice how employees and operators of organizations relying on tourism for their livelihoods weren't interviewed by Reuters.

If you choose to live in a city or area that attracts mobs of tourists, stop complaining. That's like living near an airport or train station and complaining about the daily number of flights and trains, respectively. If you love where you live and it's clearly a mecca for tourism, you deal with it or you move. I live and work in Manhattan just a few blocks from where tourists flock; you deal with the tourists because you love it here or you move. And many move.

Posted by
11613 posts

Continental, many people have lived in places for generations and would not think of leaving their homes, families, and friends, let alone jobs and businesses, because the truck of tourists has become a flood. The right to complain is imbedded in the right to free speech, and often the complaint is well-founded.

So speak out, all of you locals and visitors, perhaps some solutions will arise.

Posted by
15658 posts

"Why call it tourist season if we can't shoot them?" - (Barcelona resident) made me laugh out loud. Thank you for that.

Most hypocritical statement (that's not related to U.S. politics) I've seen this year: Cruise Lines International Association says . . . that it is committed to sustainable tourism. My guess is that the reason most of the complaints were from southern European destinations is the sizable increase in cruise lines operating in the Med in recent years. The cruise lines make tons of money, little of it flows to the destinations themselves (don't know how much the locals get from port fees, though) - no hotel nights, few meals and drinks since cruisers eat their fill before leaving the ship or on returning, may even bring drinks and lunches from the ship where it's all included in the price, and only visit one or two sights where they pay admission. Yet there are thousands of them flooding the streets and top sights daily, leaving their refuse behind, maybe buying a small souvenir to remind themselves they were there.

Now, I'm old enough to remember visits to Paris when you could just walk up to the Eiffel Tower and buy tickets to take the elevator to the top level, when you could walk up to Anna Frank House, pay a fee and walk right in, and when the only crowds in London were rush hour on the tube and pubs in the city after work on Fridays.

Posted by
6760 posts

"Well, the truth is there are too many people now who have the ability to travel..."

There is an ever-increasing number of forum newcomers with booked flights to Country X - and with no idea what there is to see or do there. It's sort of adorable.

"...it is simply too easy to find affordable transportation when you want to travel."

2017 has been a good year for airfares but I wouldn't count on downward price trends. "Too easy..." ? We can't complain about everything. Some see the spread of global prosperity as a double-edged sword of sorts but increased travel is usually a signal of well-being on other fronts. No surprise that as wealth trickles down, those pesky new consumers start snooping around in our centers of business and culture.

"What governments (at all levels) can do is to control how many hotels are built, and where."

That should keep the common folk home in their trailer parks during the summer.

Posted by
18613 posts

So speak out, all of you locals and visitors, perhaps some solutions
will arise.

Why "visitors"? Isn't a bunch of visitors (tourists) showing up and making demands the whole problem?

Posted by
4623 posts

Considering next summer's trip to Europe to be my last. Reason is a combination of tourist crowding and personally losing interest. Even if I turn away from the crowds and go another way, they will just show up again at the next site. Besides with Google Streetview I can visit anytime I want and no crowding.

Would NEVER go to Banff again, and it was 2008 for me-- what a chaotic mess! Drive 2-1/2 days to literally SIT in traffic.

Posted by
20364 posts

Still my favorite Berra-ism, "Nobody goes there any more, its too crowded."

Posted by
1172 posts

Sam: I just spit out my coffee as I literally heard a few family members when I read that lol

Posted by
868 posts

Considering next summer's trip to Europe to be my last. Reason is a
combination of tourist crowding and personally losing interest.

Most of Europe actually isn't crowded at all in summer. It's pretty simple: Europeans are on the beach, and all the tourists from overseas visit the same few hotspots. So, just don't visit the coastal areas and the touristic hotspots.

Posted by
1097 posts

My mother lives on a popular island for tourists and she calls them "trespassers." I remind her she only moved there 20 years ago.

And I love everywhere I've visited in California, north to south, but the cost of living takes my breath away, not in a good way!

Posted by
348 posts

Capitalism has done so much for this world and raised so many out of poverty. Pure awesomeness. With that, it makes for a more mobile society. As with any progress, there are always going to be some negative consequences but, the alternative is far outweighed by the positives.

Posted by
12172 posts

I prefer traveling outside of high season. Some people don't have that option. I'm most surprised that Europe has never broadened their own tourist season. In Australia different areas have different vacation times for kids so the tourism is more balanced. In America many school districts are going to year-round schedules (9 weeks of school, 3 weeks off), which allows parents to plan vacations outside of the main summer season.

Posted by
18613 posts

Kaeleku; I don't try and classify people as nobodies because they don’t share my priorities or interests. To have such a feeling towards one’s fellow man is disturbing at best. I just don’t understand the need to ridicule people that have different interests. I saw the comment "Nobody goes there any more, it’s too crowded," as an amusing irony; but certainly not as some revelation of truth.

Posted by
11613 posts

I was watching the "track flight" screen on the way back from London on Saturday, Europe is tiny compared to the rest of the world, and now that more people can travel, I am amazed that Europe has not been sunk under the weight of mass tourism.

Posted by
24 posts

Hi everyone -- I've had to remove a few comments on this thread. Please remember to keep political arguments off the forum.

Posted by
14580 posts

To Austria and Germany I go during high season ( May to July) for a number of reasons; true that you have to deal with tedious crowds and the heat but that is the trade-off.

From what I've seen in the recent years, say from 2010, it doesn't seem fewer people travel in April than in June. Lots of international tourists can be seen at the sights. This time in May I saw at the Stephansdom in Vienna in the early evening ca 1830hrs, three different tour groups converge at that site, may have been a fourth. Two were large Mandarin Chinese groups, one group was Italian.

The ICE trains were as crowded at the April as in May and June, certainly in the big junction cities, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt. In Vienna in April 2010 at the hotel (I saw their tour bus) was a large women's group from Slovenia.

Posted by
327 posts

Chani: I don't know if your travel preferences include staying in hotels, apartments, Airbnb, hostels, B&Bs, or camper vans, however, it's probably unfair to paint all cruise passengers "with the same brush" regarding some of the opinions you expressed (below) ...

The cruise lines make tons of money, little of it flows to the destinations themselves (don't know how much the locals get from port fees, though) - no hotel nights, few meals and drinks since cruisers eat their fill before leaving the ship or on returning, may even bring drinks and lunches from the ship where it's all included in the price, and only visit one or two sights where they pay admission. Yet there are thousands of them flooding the streets and top sights daily, leaving their refuse behind, maybe buying a small souvenir to remind themselves they were there.

Consider these few points:

  • August 12, 2016: “We carried out an economic impact study together with University of Barcelona regarding cruise activity generated by the port that shows this industry has a gross total turnover of almost 800 million euro,” said Mar Perez, head of cruise for the Port of Barcelona. She said the cruise industry is responsible for 7,000 jobs in Barcelona, and being a turnaround port, helps drive economic impact as passengers often package pre- and post-cruise stays in the Spanish city.
  • Have you ever watched as cruise passengers (as well as crew members on their day off who may look like tourists) return to their ship with bags and bags of local items purchased after a day ashore? Most of these people travel with luggage much larger than RS Ravenna Rolling Cases (as an example) and many passengers have purchased more than a post card or a souvenir magnet while in each port!
  • Yes, shipboard meals are included with the cruise fare (drinks are often extra), however, when passengers go ashore, they are just as likely to purchase and enjoy lunch and/or dinner and/or drinks at a charming local restaurant/bar or have a meal included as part of a shore excursion. Taking fresh food off the ship in most cases is prohibited and in some destinations it is against the law. Cruise ships do sell plastic bottles of water for passengers to take ashore for convenience. (I suppose there is the odd passenger who fills their Thermos bottle with hot water at the breakfast buffet and takes along a tea bag for convenience, just as a tourist who stays in an apartment or Airbnb might do.)
  • And as to who is leaving the refuse behind, your guess is as good as mine, however, I've see an awful lot of litter and alcohol bottles/cans on the streets near hotels I've stayed at from London to Copenhagen, Venice and Rome (to name just a few) when going out for an early morning walk.

Bottom line is, every destination that desires cruise ships, river boats, barges, air service, bicycle tours, or even travel guide book writers, works with their tourism industry partners to attract tourism business to their city or country. Some are more successful than others.

Posted by
8293 posts

Good article in today's on-line Guardian by Suzanne Moore about why Europe hates tourists. Not necessarily American tourists, just tourists.

Posted by
7050 posts

There are sizable swaths of Europe that have almost their entire economies dependent on tourism. I think that's rather undesirable, but it's a reflection that they are (economically) undynamic places that happen to have some wonderful physical or cultural treasures (but no exports to speak of, or diversified economies). So whether they hate tourists or not, realistically they need them...or they'd be in even worse shape. If you don't want the downsides of tourism, then you have to wean yourself off of it as a share of your income - and replace it with some other activity that generates the same revenues. That takes a vision, political will, and upfront investment. That doesn't seem possible for a place like Venice and many others.

Posted by
3941 posts

...and Rome is trying this out...

http://www.italymagazine.com/news/rome-experiments-controlled-flow-tourists-iconic-trevi-fountain

"During a summer when problems caused by mass tourism have emerged more apparent than ever in a number of Italian destinations, Rome is experimenting with a new measure aimed at controlling the crowds at one of its most iconic monuments, the Trevi Fountain.

From 9 am until midnight, ten volunteers (retired Carabinieri and traffic policemen) will take turns patrolling the area around the Trevi Fountain, directing the flow of visitors and making sure people don’t misbehave. During peak hours, visitors will have to follow a specific path, accessing the fountain from the central entrance and exiting from the one on the left...."

Posted by
15658 posts

Mardan - Barcelona is not a very good example, since it is one of the most popular tourist cities in Europe, not including cruise business and a lot (most?) of cruises begin and/or end there. So 3,000 people disembarking doesn't have a huge effect on a city that typically has tens of thousands of other tourists there at any given time. But that's not the same for a place like Santorini or the Cinque Terre or Valetta, or Split.

Posted by
3060 posts

The usual advice: When in a big tourist spot, go to the central square, and you will see the tourist restaurants. Ask local guides where they eat, or go to streets 2-3 blocks away, and you will often find charming uncrowded eateries which have locals and decent prices.

Posted by
3060 posts

In 2015. we visited Munchen, and decided to go to Neuschwanstein in July. We arrived at 2 PM, and found how to get tickets by bypassing the line (get the tickets at the Museum of the Bavarian Kings). We went up to the Castle, and of course wanted to go to the Marianbrucke. We rounded the slight hill to find possible 8000 people in front of us, trying to get on the bridge. We did not go to the bridge. It's clear why most pix from the bridge are snow scenes - only then are the crowds at a reasonable size. I'd post a pic, but that's not a feature here.

Posted by
1321 posts

Reading articles and comments here (like those posted about Hawaii on another travel site) make me feel guilty that I want to visit anywhere :( .

Posted by
3060 posts

Donna: These comments do not make me feel guilty. I have been to many places, and crowds have often NOT been a problem. Go on shoulder season - hotels are cheaper, they are happy to see you. Get up early to go to the popular attractions - you are on vacation, you can sleep when you are dead. Go counter-traffic. Some years ago, we were in Plitvice Lakes Park, and did not realize that it was Croatian National Day. The parking lot was filling up fast, and everyone was supposed to get on the bus. It was very obvious that the bus would NOT be large enough. So, instead of taking the bus to the top and walking down, we walked up to the top and took the bus down. Both led to smaller crowds and less traffic.