our trip to europe is too full!!

Kent is correct. Did you realize that the train trip from Barcelona to Rome is 18-19 hours? And that the journey from Venice to Salzburg is 8-9 hours? Berlin to Copenhagen is 8-9 hrs? I looked them up on the train site. Many other journeys are 5-6 hours. Looks like you have 3-4 days of train travel in there somewhere. Being young and crazy, what the hell. It would be a great adventure. Just realize that you won't see much and much of it may be at night. You can't really do Rome, Florence and Venice in less than one day each. Well, you CAN but it will be peek and flee on the next train. My initial suggestion would be to pick either Spain or Italy and drop one of the two countries. Oh no!! we have to see them all. You're young. You'll be back. My wife and I are seniors and we have to make hard choices so that we can stay 3 days at each great location. Have fun out there.

Well, you already know you're packing in to much. I think much will be lost to you by week two - sensory overload. You just won't be able to take it all in. I would strongly urge you to see less and as a result see better. You also need to plan a couple "days off" to rest, relax. Having been to everywhere you're going I'd cut out the two days in Salzburg, one is sufficient. Training via Switzerland is enough to give you a taste of the place (given your packed itinerary - frankly I love it there). Barcelona is nice but I'd skip it. Spend a couple nights in Madrid and really see it and enjoy sipping an adult beverage on a plaza in the evening. Get a feel for the place which you won't if you don't slow down. My family is from Sweden. Still, you'd be smart to save it for a future trip and give yourselves more time elsewhere. We visit relatives there and it's still really expensive. Norway even more so (there is a 250% markup on dining out etc.) Check itineray against holidays etc.

You will spend much more time on trains than you will seeing any part of Europe.That itinerary isnt just "full". it's insane.
For our money altho Lisbon is nice it could be cut.
How about leaving all Scandanavian cities for the next trip? Ditto for Switzerland.
Give yourself days to simply rest and recoup- they are necessary for EVERYBODY- no matter how "young and energetic"

Amanda,
Pardon my French, but that is a ridiculous schedule. If what you want is to show your friends you have "done" Europe,then fine, go ahead. You will come back as ignorant of Europe as when you left. Be a more sophisticated traveler and spend your 25 days, a wonderful length of time, by the way, seeing France and Italy. Two weeks in each of those provides a good survey and will show you what want to come back to see and what you have covered adequately. What is 'adequate' depends very much on the person. Some folks love art and never miss a museum, some would pass up the David to enjoy an evening at a great nightclub in Paris. History, art, culture, nightlife, people, whatever. Depends on the person. But what you are doing is a waste of your time and money. Re-think it. Need help? Ask here. Most of us regulars, including myself, would be happy to provide some REAL help.

cml
cml

Sorry, I probably should have been a little more clear in my earlier post. In no means do we want to ACTUALLY do this schedule. We simply made a list of all of the places we wanted to go to, and then eliminated some places (Vienna, Prague, French/Italian Riviera, etc.) until theoretically it was all fit into 25 days (we have factored train times in to our itinerary, I just didn't list them).

However we know that this is neither desirable nor feasible and are looking for the best way to trim it down. We're not looking to just cross places off of a list, or "do Europe." While we would get bored spending too much time in one place, we do want to be able to experience the places we're going to.

Thanks for the tips about Scandinavia, we will take that into consideration. We know that there is always the next trip, but we simply can't decide which to save for later and which to do now.

Thank you for the clarification on your itinerary being a rough plan. As you can probably detect seasoned travelers kinda went "good god!" Still, plan in some rest time, and I don't mean on a moving train. Happy travels - Wishing you great memories. Marie

Amanda, your latest post above still doesn't trim down your original itinerary. Perhaps you can post your REAL intinerary so that we can better comment. Also, it would also be helpful to know how long can you can remain in one city or location before you get bored as you indicated above. Do you plan on visiting any famous museums or special sights in these cities or just whizzing through? You'll need time in a few places to just veg out and relax. Maybe do a bit of laundry. Sorry to be obverse but your second message was not in the same universe as your initial post. Most posts above were commenting on your initial message. A more final itinerary please.

Okay, I've reworked our itinerary, and have decided to cut Scandinavia entirely, and then will choose between Spain or Italy.

Day 1: Land in London. Days 2-5: London. Day 6: Leave for Paris at 7:30am via Eurostar, spend rest of the day in Paris. Day 7: Paris. Day 8: Depart Paris early morning, arrive in Bern at 12 or Interlaken at 2. Spend the rest of the day there. Day 9: Switzerland. Leaving for Rome in the evening, transferring in Dijon Ville and catch the night train. Days 10-12: Rome. Day 13: Leave in the morning for Florence. Day 14: Florence. Day 15: Leave in the morning for Venice. Day 16: Venice. Day 17: Depart for Salzburg, arrive early afternoon. Day 18: spend morning in Salzburg, depart for Munich early afternoon. Spend rest of day in Munich. Day 19: Munich, depart for Amsterdam late night. Day 20: Arrive in Amsterdam early, spend day. Day 21: depart for Brussels early morning. Day 22: Brussels to London, flight home.

Sorry, ran out of room posting.

We're leaning towards Italy since it's a lot closer to both where we're coming from and where we're going to. I spent a month backpacking around Italy just last year but first of all, I would love to go again, and second of all, I'm thinking it is just better if we avoid such long train rides that Spain and Portugal would entail. Maybe some of you who have been to Spain could tell me if it's worth it or if my assumptions are correct. I spent time in Seville but haven't been any where else, none of my travel-mates have been to Spain or Italy.

Also, I would really love to go to Copenhagen, it's the one city I've always wanted to go to but have never had to chance to make it over to. I'm figuring given the long train ride to Copenhagen, and then out again, it's better to save that for another trip (hopefully to Scandinavia, I was disappointed that that had to be cut but I saw no other way).

Thanks so much for your input, we really appreciate it!!

Your busy schedule would probably work if you had twice as much time. I'd suggest leaving out Switzerland and concentrating on 2-3 countries in 3 weeks. My first trip to Europe I thought I could cover the whole continent in 4 weeks. Experienced friends talked me into being more reasonable and I was glad they did. I had a Eurailpass and hit quite a few places, but did best when I stayed 3 nights in each place. I fell in love with Paris and was able to schedule in a few extra days there at the end of my trip. It helps if you fly "open jaws" and leave from a different city than the one where you arrive. Leave some space in your schedule for side-trips, illnesses, falling in love, etc.

Amanda, here are some general tips that I follow when trying to decide where to go and what to do.

Tip 1: Define the non-negotiables. What MUST you see! And only pick two or three of these with your 25 days. Other non-negotiables are for another trip!

Tip 2: Plan your travel in one direction. Don't double back at any point.

Tip 3: You can fly open-jawed where you fly into one city and out of another. It will cost less money to do it this way than the cost of transportation back to your round trip city.

Tip 4: Find day trips out of certain places to vary your sights. Like if you're going to Amsterdam, Bruges is a great day trip.

Tip 5: Get centrally located for areas like Tuscany. Don't hop around from hotel to hotel in little towns. Pick one town and make that your home base.

Tip 6: Renting a car can save you time, but won't be cost effective unless you're traveling with at least 2 people (vs. a train).

Your second itinerary looks pretty good at the beginning but IMO it's too busy toward the end. Salzburg, Munich, Amsterdam, and Brussels -- all in one day each (approximately) -- seems like too much to cram in. I would cut out two of those cities. I've not been to Munich or Brussels, but I did really enjoy Salzburg and Amsterdam.

Even cutting out two of those last four cities, you're still doing a lot of running around -- but you say you're young and energetic, and if you can handle the pace and want to sample a lot of cities vs. doing just a few places in greater depth, then there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

The other posters' suggestions about open-jaw flights are very sensible; that option can save you that last leg back to London, or even inform which cities you can most logically skip this time around.

You didn't say what time of year you're going, which will also inform where you want to go (weather).

I did the whirlwind thing the first time I went to Europe. I don't blame you for wanting to try. What I'd recommend is picking 3-4 "benchmark places" You mentioned Copenhagen and you probably have a couple of others. Then, when you get there, decide what you want to do between the benchmark places. Leave your schedule flexible. You'll know how tired you are and how much you can handle. For a first trip you can't help feel like you'll never get back.

As for places to visit, if you aren't going to have a car, one night in Salzburg is enough. But if you have a car the scenery is beautiful around there. I ended up spending alot longer in Spain because of train strikes then I planned. I don't know if that is usual-- but something to consider. The train passes are great for seeing as much as possible. But, plan on an hour or so whenever you have to make seat reservations-- don't get to the train station too close to departure.

Amanda: If you want to choose between Italy and Spain, choose Italy. Your instincts are correct: it avoids the long travel time over to Spain and there is much to see in Italy (and smart move eliminating Scandinavia, you'll be glad you did).

Amanda, one more thing. Cut out the places you've already been to unless you have some other reason for going, like seeing people you know. If you've seen it already then get somewhere new. You'll have a better experience, IMO.

Of course there are perfectly good reasons for seeing something you've already seen, but if you're trying to trim things off, this is the way to go.

Amanda if your last trip was as full and zippy as this one sounds, then I would not cut out a place you have been to already as you seem to think seeing a city takes one day( and not even a full one at that!) so if even if you have been to Amsterdam before I would go again , and skip Brussels, it just isn't that exciting.

Personally I was young and zippy once too, and there is no way in heck I would do your trip,, way too fast and you are not going to see much of anything but train stations. You will also get sick. All the running around, late nights , early mornings, strange food, and go go go ,( since if you are only in Paris for 2 days you need to hustle all day to see stuff) and I can almost guarantee you will get run down and sick. I know, I have , and I was only 23 when a freind and I did our Europeon trip, mind you we travelled for 2 1/2 months, but did include Greece and serveral other countries.

SLOW down, you will go back.

Amanda, will you be hosteling it, or actually making any reservations? If that's the case, you can start out with a plan and adjust as necessary to some degree. The advise about deciding what are the "must sees" is great.

Our first trip was agressive, but the train rides were really a chance to catch up. We also found that some locations weren't worth more than a half day, so if you're flexible, you can just move on. Or stay longer if you love somewhere.

We backpacked through Europe in 24 days in 2005. Here's what worked for us. First, we decided that we will return. Then, we listed everything each of us wanted to see. Then we circled those things we really "couldn't" miss. This enabled us to map out an itinerary based on our essentials. Then we filled in with what we could fit in easily. Lastly, we assumed that it would take us longer to travel and make connections than we wanted it to.

The result: Even though we paced ourselves well and are both gym fanatics, we got tired after the 2nd week and took a day off. Then we were ready to go again. We saw London-2, Rome-2, Florence-2, Venice-2, Salzburg-1, Munich-1, Bacharach-2, Shannon-1, Dingle-3, Edinburg-2, Inverness-2, and York-1. We took 1 night train, lots of day trains, 1 bus, 2 intra Europe flights, and rented 2 cars. The other 2 days were travel. Since that trip, we have been back for Benelux and Scandinavia as separate trips. I hope this helps you. Have fun!

You still have quite a few " rest of day in ... " . The reality is that you will see plenty of train stations and precious few places and people. Again, one half the cities/areas will still be too crammed.You can go back again & again!!!

Spain is definitely "worth it", but not for this trip. Save it for another trip when you can spend adequate time, not just rush through. I'd vote with those who say to cut out places you've been before. Since you have so much to see, why waste time and money seeing something you already have? And your "rest of the day in..." will usually turn into no time for anything. since more time than you can imagine can be eaten up with just getting around with your bags, delays in finding transportation, and finding your way around a new city. And many times you'll find that something you wanted to see is only open on certain days or at certain times

Hello Amanda. Well, you received many good replies here. Now I will contribute my two cents worth of advise. You said you were in ITALY for one month. And you desire to go to Copenhagen. So, for your next trip to Europe go to Copenhagen ! I know how you feel. I began to desire to go to Copenhagen in the year 1973. I went to Copenhagen in the year 2007. Copenhagen is one of the best cities in Europe. It does not have the best museums or art galleries, but when you are in Copenhagen, you know that you are in Europe. You need to eliminate a few countries from your itinerary. Because you have been in Italy, I suggest go to northern Europe : Norway, Denmark, Amsterdam, Paris, Koblenz and Rhine River in Germany, fly from Frankfurt to U.S.A. If you go to London first, you can fly from London Heathrow to Bergen Norway, SAS airline, for $ 100. Do the "Norway in a Nutshell" thing, ride in trains east to Oslo, then south to Goteborg Sweden, and Copenhagen. Fly from Copenhagen to Amsterdam.

If you want to know how to travel from Paris France to Koblenz in Germany, a high-speed express train goes from Paris to Koblenz (probably not every day). Koblenz is a good base for exploring the Rhine River and its castles and small medieval towns (Bacharach). If you fly to the U.S.A. from Frankfurt Germany, I recommend stay at a hotel at Mainz the night before the flight. A train goes from Mainz to the Frankfurt airport. If your flight from the U.S.A. to London, and your flight from Frankfurt to the U.S.A. are on the same airline (British Airways ?) the total cost for your airline tickets might not be very high, if you go before May 15, or after September 15.

In answer to Ron, there are seven trains a day between Paris and Koblenz, but you will have to change one or more times.