Our environmental commitment level while travelling

Well, I like to think that I am one of those who would, and tries to, do my part, even when it's inconvenient or more expensive.

For instance, for years, our household was one of only 200 in Calgary (I later learned) that chose to pay extra on our electricity bill to support the development of non-coal-based sources of electricity. We have had solar panels on our roof for 11 years, at a net loss while we are paying off the panels, because we wanted to support the development of that technology in our area.

We've been early adopters of other greener technology, too, such as a hybrid vehicle (had a 2002 Prius for many years, and even now, my vehicle has an "Eco" setting by default, turns itself off at lights, etc.), a tankless water heater, high-efficiency furnace, LED lights, etc.

When we travel, we either bring refillable water bottles or buy a bottle of water for the flight and keep refilling it during our trip. We recycle when we can, and when we aren't sure, we do as you do, or we ask someone. We are careful about our water and energy use. We mostly travel by public transport.

Of course, not travelling at all would be the most environmentally friendly choice, but we're not willing to go that far. We were unable to travel much when we were younger, and we want to do so while we can.

I haven’t come across an area anywhere in the U.K. where there isn’t some form of recycling, although what goes in each bin differs from one local council to another. My parents have had a glass recycling bin for years, but my council only introduced this a couple of years ago and prior to this, I had to take stuff to the bottle bank in the next village. Paper is always separated out, as is food waste and garden refuse. Some councils fine you if you have the wrong rubbish in the bin.

I have an EV in the U.K. It has worked out much cheaper than an ICE vehicle, particularly as (until the recent hike in electricity prices) most of the supermarkets have offered free charging. Charged at home overnight, it’s still cheaper. We went to Belgium in it last month - again, most supermarkets offered free charging. My Renault Zoe has a range of 250 miles. Most people don’t drive this distance regularly, so topping up isn’t an issue. On a longer journey, you shouldn’t be driving any further than that without a break and whilst I have a coffee and a comfort break, the car is put on charge for 20 minutes. In 18 months, there have only been a couple of occasions when I haven’t been able to get on a charger.

Hybrid cars are the worst of both worlds.

Am strictly a public transportation person, no car at all. For vacations, prefer a train to a plane if at all possible. For my next Camino, will once again take a train to my starting point in France. This will be a long day, train from Frankfurt to Paris - 3.49 hours, Paris to Bayonne, 4 hours, Bayonne to Saint Jean Pied de Port - 1 hour. Layover in Paris is 1 hour, same in Bayonne. So, it will take me about 12 hours altogether. But, I see it as fun, in comparison to flying which would be stressy and probably take the same amount of time to get there, including all the time spent hanging out at the airport before and between flights.

For trash, I just try my best with what ever system is available. Spain seems to be pretty good with separation as is Germany. Have switched to using a bandanna as a hanky instead of all those tissues for a runny nose. When did we stop using cloth hankies? My metal water bottles are great, they keep my water cold. Though I actually prefer to stop somewhere when thirsty and sit down for a drink and a snack.

I've done my bit to save the planet my partner and I haven't had children. The thing no one will talk about - population growth! Just got home and bought a new car - made the conscious decision to buy petrol not hybrid or EV . If you think that's a terrible decision you should read up about lithium and battery recycling in general

Out of 6 weeks in Europe we hired a car for a total of 4 days - a nice little Opal - petrol - worked fine

We prefer to travel city to city by trains--if the ride is not over 3 1/2 hours. Otherwise, it's a budget European airline for us.

We're not into EV's in Italy. I want to make sure that I get to my destination. And rural Italians are generally not English speakers. It's hard just getting gas sometimes if you've got to talk.

Hybrid cars are the worst of both worlds.

??. I'm curious now. I'll admit I've never researched either EV or Hybrid closely, but I can't imagine of having made either of my UK trips this year with just EV. I can't see it as being practical. Even less practical for a road trip at home. We visit my wife's hometown every couple of years which is 1135km away according to Google Maps. We'll drive it in one day in about 11 hours. But using the car Cameron mentioned in his blog would mean we'd likely need to stop for an hour, every hour and a half. Maybe more often in winter. For anyone who is familiar with the Canadian prairies, you may be driving longer than that to find a gas station. It's just not practical. In Scotland in June, even with a hybrid, we had to be aware on our route of where we were going and making sure there were gas stations that would be on route and open. An EV in the Highlands or Islands may not have worked.

I think that hybrids are the best of both worlds. I deal with taxi drivers and they tell me that the Toyota Prius is a great, reliable and economical vehicle. Cabs are run 24 hours a day with two 12 hour shifts and 2 drivers. There is no time to let an EV sit idle to charge. Also, having used Priuses in their taxi fleet over the last 10-15 years, taxi companies have found them to be very reliable with much lower maintenance costs compared to ICE. Of course, they save fuel (costs) and have a lower carbon footprint.

We will probably buy some form of an EV as our next vehicle. However, range of an EV is a concern. One of our car trip vacation destinations will test the limits of most current EV. The condo hotel that we stay at only has 2 charging stations, so charging can be an inconvenience. I don't think carbon fuel will be eliminated in my lifetime. So, a hybrid like a Prius makes a lot of sense. Too bad, they are so ugly. I am just waiting for a better looking vehicle. Meanwhile, I try to drive less. I work from home and try to arrange my affairs to do everything in fewer car trips.

If you could wave a magic wand and convert every vehicle to an EV, will there be enough electricity to charge them all, let alone at the current low cost? Imagine every household with one or two car chargers and every parking spot in the shopping mall with a charging station. Simple supply and demand. You are not going to get free charging. Most governments are taking steps to discourage use of natural gas and giving incentives to convert to electric heat pumps. The ironic thing is that a lot of people (at least in BC) are taking advantage of grants to install heat pumps not so much for heating but to have air conditioning in the summers which seem to get hotter every year. So the electricity consumption is growing. How many more hydro-electric dams can be built in the world? It would be counter-productive to build more coal burning generators. We may need to consider a more efficient way to generate electricity. Nuclear?

1/ Most environmentally friendly solution: Virtual Travel.
2/ Second most environmentally friendly: Train to the nearest seaport and get on a freighter to Europe (many do take passengers), then walk from the European port of entry to your hotel.
3/ Those are the only two that put the environment before your personal desires; after that it becomes very subjective and and if you go beyond that it is difficult to be judgmental.

4/ If you live in Los Angeles your footprint for a flight to London then train to Paris, then train to Budapest, then flight home will be larger than if I fly from Houston to London fly to Paris fly to Budapest and back home; so should you take the train to Houston to get the footprint down?
5/ Until i feel comfortable answering that question, I will defer judgment no matter what one chooses to do.
6/ You would think RS would move his offices to JFK?

We travel when and as long as we like.

We do recycle at home and don't use many plastic bottles. I have a bottle that I refill when I go out for exercise.
On travel, we do the same.

FYI. https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint

Edit: Worst polluters are billionaires in space: https://www.treehugger.com/what-is-carbon-footprint-of-space-tourism-5192322

I guess I am pretty simple…. I try to make sure the lights where I stay are off if not being used and haven’t used heat or air con in my room on a trip since April in Jordan.

The easiest things one can do is use public transportation which is so great throughout most of Europe, and bring your own refillable water bottle. Minimize using heat and AC as much as possible and eat a plant based diet.

I think about hotels that announce they won't change your sheets or towels unless you ask; all in an effort to reduce their footprint. But I wonder how many of us check prior to booking , or even care? We don't. In fact on our last trip, even with the hotel's own signage saying that they don't, a couple of them did change our sheets and our towels, even when the towels were hung up. We treated it more as a pleasant surprise.

I agree with funpig that hybrids are the best of both worlds. I bought my first Prius 12 yrs ago this January and bought a new one this January. My new one is getting 58 mpg.

And those of us who always have to fly commercial are not contributing to the carbon footprint to nearly the same extent as the environmental loudmouths(and you know who I'm talking about) that always fly private.

Traveling in itself is inherently non environment friendly. You are another person, an add on to the existing population. Therefore you are consuming or leaving behind things that would not otherwise be there. Water, food, garbage, toilets. Transport is the least of the impact since it would be running anyway.
Let’s not fool ourselves. The environment is degrading. Our small contributions pale in comparison to what we need as humans to go about our business.
The Malthus theory was an imbalance of population and food. He did not foresee the degradation of the environment. It still remains that population is the elephant in the room that no one talks about. More and more humans equals, by default, a strain on the world. When you travel you add to the local population and create your impact as above, less water, more waste, footprints on the local scale. Actual footprints in many aspects, and a footprint left of the resources used to support you in the brief time you are the added person(s).

If you look at many of the wealthy environmental justice warriors in society, like movie and rock stars, and politicians, well, they talk a good game while flying their private jets and driving big black SUV's. It's "do what I say, not what I do," and it's pervasive. Hypocrisy 101.

treemoss2, good post. Let's be honest. At the end of the day we do what we want to do, but yes we'll recycle the plastic bottle as if that offsets, or even comes close, to offsetting everything else. It is a nice, self-aggrandizing facade but it's not fooling anyone.

Worst polluters are billionaires in space:
https://www.treehugger.com/what-is-carbon-footprint-of-space-tourism-5192322

But if it was affordable, would you do it? Or if you wouldn't, would the reason be environmental?

At home we do all the things that I guess some consider greenwashing, virtue signaling etc. - we compost, we recycle, shop at the thrift store, use our own grocery bags, use public transportation when we can (we live in Atlanta, if you know you know), we turn the lights off when we leave a room, I hang things to dry when the weather is warm, we are very conscious of our heat/ac use, etc etc. We have done those things at home for decades, so to be oblivious of our footprint when we travel feels unnatural. I find recycling, at least, to be easier to do in Europe than at home. I stayed in an apartment hotel in Germany that had detailed rules about separating our recycling. Many Air BnBs I've stayed in have a separate recyling bin, and if it doesn't, I leave my recyclables out with a note and hope it's recycled. I always carry my refillable water bottle and love when I run across a bottle filling station. I also try to resist the siren call of takeout or delivery food, while traveling or at home, because of the single use waste.

I don't consider separating my recycling, bringing my own water bottle or grocery bags, or using public transportation an inconvenience at all.

We live in a neighborhood where you have to pay for a recycling bin and many of my neighbors don't have one, so all their recycling goes in their garbage. It's depressing. I have no illusions that what we do in our home makes much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. But we do it anyway.

Unless you decide not to fly or cruise, just do as you do at home.

Worst polluters are billionaires in space:

If I were given the opportunity, I would be sure and take a train to the launch pad, and refuse changing the sheets during the flight.

I'd like to do something, but there is currently nothing to be done.

That is about the most pathetic excuse out there. Of course you can do something, you can do everything you can to reduce your own contribution.

I'd strongly suggest bike tours if you are genuinely serious about your carbon footprint. I've had some memorable experiences that are much more gratifying than on a train, bus, or car. You shan't regret it.

Everyone can go without heat and AC if dressed properly, and there is no good reason for daily showering. Astronauts on the ISS won't shower for months or an entire year, and they're fine.

We do the best we can home and away. I do have the "I didn't have kids" ace in my pocket when I encounter folks who talk about flying and cruising.

We recycle abroad when we can but bringing our grocery bags and water bottles is a basic step.

For all the anti- kids people out there – who do you think is going to continue to fund your social security? Who is going to change your diaper in the nursing home or take care of you in the hospital or even bag your groceries? I think the bigger problem is people living too long. Many who wouldn’t without the miracle of modern medicine. Trust me, I am grateful to modern medicine, as I am still here 25 years later thanks to great medical treatment when I was 36 that was not available 50 years earlier, but how long is too long and at what point do we stop? I’ve always been a firm believer in that “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.”

I am not saying this to derail the discussion, just making a point. We all could do more to decrease our environmental footprint, but I agree that the bigger causes need legislation and corporate participation. Anyone every watch “Seaspiracy” on Netflix?

FYI, choosing not to have kids does not make a person "anti-kid". (Just sayin'. I had 3, myself, but I respect other people's choices.)

Edited to add that I make an exception for anyone who uses the phrase, "child-free", though. That is a horrible, bigoted turn of phrase.

Let's remember the question is how committed you are to making sacrifices while travelling. If leaving the kids at home while I travel helps the environment then I'm all in, but travelling instead of having kids??, thinking back to the toddler and teenage years, it's tempting...

You seriously can't off set the carbon footprint of airline travel. Just imagine the largest bon fire you have ever witness or created. Your "across the pond" flight was well more than that. The thing is, the airlines make very little money of just the bit of getting you point A to B. What you are buying is kerosene, Jet Fuel, to get you from point A to point B. And really, nothing else matters as to costs. I think travelers, are the worst environmentalists. And they are the worst because they don't know, and think it can somehow be fixed. Well, it can't be fixed. There is no real offset you can buy, to ease the mind on this. Do we want to ban international fight for normal people? No. Yet we are just going to have all these flights, at 30'000 feet, burning off kerosene and making vapor trails.

Is this bad for the future, of course it is. Do we care? No, cause its our right, to have the best life we can create and we should see the world before it all gets too messed up. :)

"...making sacrifices while travelling." That's one way of viewing one's traveling style. I've become more aware of my carbon footprint as that matter is more acute now than it was 40-50 years ago. One does what one decides and is willing to do regarding making the sacrifices.

I do a few.... no flying within Europe, no rental car, just use pubic transport (trains, trams, buses, subways,) or the occasional taxi, no ride share, no AC. How " committed am I to paying extra costs?" Not committed.

I have become increasingly reluctant to travel overseas for pleasure. COVID really helped in that respect, I have been having a great time vacationing in France and neighboring countries lately.
My main issue is with business travel. I have been trying to take the train as much as possible, but that's not always an option. And even though more meetings are digital these days, face-to-face meetings are coming back, so I still occasionally find myself having to take the plane round-trip for half a day of meetings...

Well, I like to think that I am one of those who would, and tries to, do my part, even when it's inconvenient or more expensive.

I'd like to think I'm with BB. I, too, for decades paid extra for renewable energy and was surprised that everyone in my socio-economic bracket was not doing the same. I wouldn't want to explain to my grandchildren why for 50 years I did nothing.

Since the mid seventies, we've always had just one car, except when my daughter was in college... We chose to live where public transportation was available and it was used daily for decades, used reusable bags for years, trying to stop using one use plastics, etc. Lived in a small house and now live in a relatively small apartment. I try not to use more than I have to use. I'm extremely torn as to whether to give up trips to Europe as planes and boats should be limited. As a result I think I'm losing interest in International travel, but might just be a covid reaction. I do what I can, and I'm frustrated when governments, corporations and others don't give a darn and are waiting for others to do things. When I die my movie will have me trying to do the right things, failing regularly, but not waiting for the rest of the world.

This being said, my bratty me, me, me, I have airline vouchers to use this year, and being frugal I want to use them. I'm going to fly direct even though I HATE OVERNIGHT FLIGHTS, and take trains from/to flights and walk the Camino. Not perfect, but at least I'm trying to work out something I want to do and might not be too damaging. After that, I will need a purpose to my travels, I think, rather than just because...

I think also that in the West, we still think developing counties, would never ACTUALLY develop disposable incomes to include world travel. This is not the case. And a family in China, India, or Africa has just the same right to travel that Westerners have almost entirely monopolized for the last 50 years. Yet the numbers of travelers from Non-Western counties are astounding in the increases in just the last 10 years. The crash 0f 2008 and Covid put a bit of a halt on those increases, which are just now starting again, in an almost exponential climb. Is there ANYTHING YOU CAN PERSONALLY DO. I doubt seriously, if there is. All the rest of your travel, aside from the flight over the oceans, is nearly nothing, compare to those, out and back, airliner trips. We take the electric buses because they are "COOL." And Europe is so far ahead of us that way.

In a sense, the question is oddly framed. If you pay more by using carbon offsets, you are not reducing Carbon Emissions. You are trading, in some sort of completely unregulated and non-empirical way, to programs that don't supply any real information as to how effective they are. They are projections. And a critical thinker would look these things up, and then get very disappointed: As, I have been.
The largest Carbon Reduction anyone can make, is to not have children. We didn't, so in our minds this equals out and we can travel as much as we want, SHAME FREE, by simply accepting the fact that our genetic line ends with us. This should be celebrated. We are not there yet, maybe 20 years in the future, childless couples, or individuals, get to fly free, cause they got a carbon tax credit for each child they didn't have.. But of coarse, this isn't how its going to work.... :)

In 10 years, the common sites, will have two, three or four year waiting lists.

Allan, you unintentionally opened a can o' worms.... :)

Allan, you unintentionally opened a can o' worms.... :)

Not unintentionally. In fact I thought the topic would be more spirited than it has been. I admit, I didn't see the no-kids opinion coming. But another inspiration for this topic came from an opinion I gave in someone's thread a few months ago. My opinion wasn't popular when I suggested the hotel industry wasn't washing sheets and towels daily because they were committed to green, but because they saw a way to save money and make it look like they were committed to the environment. I still think most corporations and individuals feel that way, and go through the motions to try and look good. I count myself in that group of doing what I can, if it's convenient and not costing me money.