One year in EU/ Schengen?

"Is there a way around this idiocy? Why can't I just spend 90 days in each independent country?"

Because you are expected to obey the law, plain and simple.

The EU is not the relevant point.

The U.K. and Ireland are not part of the Schengen agreement. The have their own agreement ("Common Travel Area")

Germany, Denmark Norway, and Sweden are all party to Schengen.

You are limited to 6 months in U.K without a visa

The 90 in 180 rule is for Schengen without a visa.

The only way around it is to get the appropriate visa.

Paul,

"Is there a way around this idiocy? Why can't I just spend 90 days in each independent country?"

The simple answer to the second sentence is because those are the rules which all travellers from outside the E.U. must adhere to. Your best course of action is to structure your trip so that you won't break those rules.

A couple of options you could look into.....

• Spend your first six months in Ireland and other parts of the U.K. under the provisions of their Common Travel Area. Spend the next 90 days in the Schengen area and then return home. That would mean a shorter trip but would be within the rules.
• Your profile doesn't indicate where you're from, so I'm not sure if you qualify for a Working Holiday Visa. If you are able to get a WHV (which allows up to one year of work), you could spend the first six months or so in Ireland and the U.K. and then go to Germany and the other countries for the remainder of your time. I believe the WHV is classed as a Type "D" Schengen Visa which allows longer stays, up to the one year limit. The Schengen Visa that most of us travel under is Type "C". I've only looked at this briefly so you'll have to confirm the details.

Good luck sorting this out!

Hi,

Back in the '70s and '80s I met travelers and knew of people who did exactly what you have in mind. For us Americans traveling in western and central Europe, outside of the Sovier bloc countries, as pertaining to length of stay was a breeze, only Britain imposed a time limit that was indicated on your passport stamp. The rest of the places, Holland, W.Germany, Austria, Sweden, France, Finland, Italy, etc. you stayed as long as you wanted or when the funds ran out. I spent 12 weeks in the summer of '71. BUT, Europeans coming over here were required to get a visa with a three month time imposition...not a totally fair exchange.

You can defintely spend the 90 days in a single Schengen country; upon entry in the Schengen zone the passport is stamped with the date. That can serve as a reminder to yourself. When the 90 days are up, you leave. Schluss, fin.

Now you can work around it a bit, but each time you reenter, yes, the passport is stamped but it is also swiped; when that is done all the pertinent info appears to the border control staff.

I suggest spending the first 90 permissible days in Schengen, then go to UK spend your alloed time there, then fly back to the US. The other alternative is make multiple trips on a shoestring budget, staying in hostels, university dorms, or campsites, taking night trains, buses, etc.

hello number 3412

A little more meat on the bones would help us help you. When do you want to make this journey? What nationality are you and where will you be leaving from?

Are you student age, retirement age or working age? Do you have sufficient funds to support yourself for your year without resorting to working for income?

Where are you getting your information about visas from? It appears that either what you are looking at is old or inaccurate or you have misinterpreted what you have seen.

If you can tell us where you are looking we can point out the relevant bits.

I find the Schengen rules very confusing , but would it work for him to start in Germany and Denmark for 90 days, then go to the Common Travel Zone for 180, then would he have another 90 days for Norway and Sweden?

That would work. Actually the rules are very simple as to 90 out of 180. However, some people make it complicated by trying to figure out some way to get around the rules. For Adam it is only the Schengen zone that is 90/180. While there is a lot of overlap with the EU, the EU is an economic arrangement and has nothing to do with travel visas. And be careful. There have been reports here of one person being fined 500E for one day over and another ban from returning to the Schengen zone for over staying a month or so. This should not be taken lightly even if you think it is silly.

Have you thought about getting a volunteer job teaching English that would include a visa? The CIEE has a program in Spain that might allow you to be in the Schengen countries for more than 90 days. See http://www.ciee.org/teach/spain. There may be other CIEE programs you could participate in as well, even if you are not now a college student.

Volunteer work etc falls under a certain visa type that is restricted to three months and there is a very big downside you are very limited in your right to return to the Schengen area for the following 12 months. So I doubt this is a flyer.

OP, regarding your comments about seeking a new homeland outside the USA, You should be aware that most of Western Europe will be closed to you unless you hold an EU or EEA passport or failing that you are a highly skilled professional in one of the areas that there is a shortage of in Europe.

From what I understand, one could purchase property (usually several hundred thousand of dollars) in certain EU countries like Hungary or Spain and then receive eligibility to travel longer than 90 days.

Thanks everyone for your insight. Some of you were asking for a little more information. I live in California, USA. I'm planning my trip to begin early spring next year. I do have enough money to support myself the whole time, the WHV is only an option to stay longer.

I most likely will have to begin in Germany and work clock wise to meet the time restraints. I have been acquiring my travel info from embassy web sites and a travel agent here in the USA. As to the confusion on how long I could spend in Great Britain I was told since there were no boundaries in the EU, I was only allowed the 90 days. I will be spending most my time there.

I do plan on following all laws and restrictions in each country. That's why I'm here getting educated. Thank You.

Paul Adams

Your travel agent appears to be confusing the EU with the Schengen zone. The EU and Schengen are not the same. Only countries in the Schengen zone are limited to 90 out of 180. The UK and Ireland have their own rules.

For the WHV requirements follow this link https://www.dfa.ie/travel/visas/us-ireland-visa-arrangements/. This is for Ireland. For the UK you have to live in a commonwealth country which automatically disqualifies me.

Since I had not heard if that visa, I did a little goggling. Still amazed at what you can find. It appears that most of these WHV are country specific and doesn't fit what you are trying to do unless you had a series of the work visas for each country. That looks complicated. And then, if you are thinking of immigration later, that is a whole another issue.

Paul,

Thanks for the additional information. That helps clarify the situation.

The Working Visa that you referred to appears to only cover the Republic of Ireland and not the northern six counties which are part of the U.K. In any case, it now appears that your plans may not be as difficult as anticipated. Would something like this work....

• Spend the first three months of your trip in the Irish Republic, using the Working Holiday Visa that you linked in a previous reply.
• Spend the next six months in Northern Ireland and the U.K., under the terms of their Common Travel Area rules.
• Spend the final 90 days in the Schengen countries (Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway).

AFAIK, this should be quite legal and will give you the one year trip you're planning.

Cheers!

90 day in Schengen + 180 days in UK/Ireland common travel area + 90 days in Schengen might do the trick. 90 days Schengen + 90 days UK/Ireland + 90 days Schengen + 90 days UK/Ireland would also do the trick theoretically.

Just bear in mind that, albeit unlikely regarding Americans, immigration authorities don't have to abide by those terms, they can allow you for shorter stays in UK or infer you are staying too long to be granted a 2nd Schengen entry. So take all proper documentation with you, proof of funds to self-sustain and evidence you are not working in any shape or form. It is not a common occurrence, but sometimes customs officials refuse entry to Americans and send them back to US on next flight.

Remember Schegen and EU are not interchangeable: Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are not part of EU, but part of Schengen.

Now, a final bit of geekery: passport stamps are no longer formally required as proof of entry in Schengen. Maybe your passport will not be stamped, but data is collected from its RFID chip when scanned on entry, and data collected on FRONTEX. Police and immigration authorities across Schengen have access to FRONTEX data so they just check your passport and retrieve data. Some ports of entry already abolished stamps altogether.

I have a dilemma. I'm trying to spend a year backpacking through
Europe. More precisely Northern Ireland, Rep. of Ireland, United
kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway. Most likely in that order.

The only dilemma is that you cannot do that trip in that order. As noted above, simply rearrange the order to spend the first 90 days on the continent, then 90-180 days in the UK and Ireland, then finish back on the continent.

No need for a visa if you plan, and you need no more than 6 months in the Schengen Zone. (As others have said, the EU has nothing to do with it)

As others have stated, in a year, the most you can expect in the Schengen zone is six months, either 3 months in, 3 months out, repeat, or 3 in, 6 out, 3 in, or some combination that prevents you from spending 90 days in 180 consecutive days. The entire other time can be spent in the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) or you could spend some or up to the entire 6 months in Ireland. The common travel zone that Ireland and the UK share is really less of a concern in that it really does not apply to a US passport holder. It applies to UK and Ireland citizens, but as a US citizen, each country will apply it's own immigration rules, implying that you can stay up to 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Ireland. Ireland though will assign you a stay on entry, based on your return ticket or whatever you say to the agent. That assignment will apply really only on Air travel or Ship, crossing the land border from Ireland to N. Ireland will likely not encounter immigration control (and sometimes Air or boat...it gets confusing) so if you are relying on some timing, make sure you encounter immigration.

I think I would allow myself a little cushion and only spend an initial 80 or 85 days in Shengen. Who knows, you might want to take a quick trip back for a concert or to meet a friend.

(Shengen Cushion would be a great name for a band.)

Paul describes the CTA more or less from the Irish Government perspective. The British Government see it a bit differently. The CTA isn't something that is fully set out in law or a treaty it is all a matter of custom and practice which differs on each side. As the UK Border Agency says 'The UK does not make routine immigration checks on passenger travel within the CTA, and passengers are not required to carry a passport or national identity document for immigration purposes'. The exception relates to Visa nationals, which the USA isn't.

However, since Ireland grants in general only 3 months entry, it would make sense on a long trip to enter the CTA through the UK, and visit the Republic of Ireland as a side trip within this period, of no more than 3 months. RoI requires non EEA nationals to register with the police after 3 months anyway.

Thanks everyone. I've learned a lot. Hope everyone has a safe holiday season.