One photographer's view of selfies and selfish photographers.

Nancy,

What an excellent and well written article! I too share his feelings completely.

Meanwhile, closer to home...

https://m.sfgate.com/local/article/Sheriff-s-Office-Your-sunflower-selfies-are-14069985.php

hehe I got a kick out of that post - the photos he included of all those folks' pictures in the lavender fields, ice, and other places really highlighted just how unoriginal those settings are. Perhaps the best approach to dealing with the issue is to have more photographer photographers - someone taking pics to show just how absurd it looks to have countless people trying to take the exact same "original" pic. Reminds of those pics you see from Pisa - person using depth of field to take a picture that looks like they're holding up the Leaning Tower; step back a bit and look around and you see a whole field full of countless people all taking the same pic (mind you, I don't even really mind that. It's a fun, silly pic! Take one, if ya want! You're entitled to have a fun image of yourself for your own sake).

Ultimately, though, I'm not able to entirely bash folks who do it. I work in the digital media and social media field and actually help run a business that is built almost entirely upon photography presented through and promotion generated on Instagram. Over the years, I've worked with countless photographers and videographers.

One thing I've noticed over the years is there are a whole lot of people who call themselves photographers, but really are just people with cameras. What I mean by that is the barrier to entry for photography is so low nowadays - you can snap thouuuuuusands upon thouuuuusands of digital pictures and then use various photo editing tools to make your pictures look not just presentable, but actually fairly impressive. I can't bash the availability and ease-of-use of this technology, as it's really opened up photography to so many people and many of us likely take advantage of it for ourselves. It's a much more democratic, egalitarian pursuit (no need for cases full of expensive professional equipment, mountains of film, darkrooms, etc). I don't think people are suddenly more selfish or inconsiderate nowadays - technology has just allowed for people to more easily tap in to that inner narcissism that's been there all along; it's turned tons of random folks in to photographers in the sense that they're able to take pics, but not photographers who know what it's like to get permits, scout locations, get permission from property owners, pay fees, etc.

Agree to parts of 1885BD.

The numbers of photographers is imo lower than 50 years ago. The rest are snappers with a fish alike intelligence of just snapping the next motif swimming around them.

The level of maturity and manners is declining in a dangerous way - but traveling is cheaper than ever before. Therefore the dullness and missing respect of travelers is fatally increasing.

Sorry to say but especially people from the US I experience as really uneducated in a global and multi-cultural understanding and as selfish and rude against local culture and property. Of course every person to be seen individually but the total result is worth rejecting acceptance.

Personally I am not willing to accept this longer. When observing behaviour descibed in the article I will end it immediately.

I've never taken a selfie.
I am not obsessed with being in a photograph. Also, if the scene demands a photo, maneuvering to include me (with me taking the photo) would likely spoil my photo.

Also, any photos that I take, I observe a civility so as not to destroy anything or anyone else's photo.

I remember an amusing afternoon in the Musee d'Orsay following a woman around who was intent on photographing with her phone all the photos with 'no photography' signs on them. I photobombed as many as I could. Not to be in the picture but to ruin them. Museum was under construction, it was busy, and guards were few, so I did my own deterring....after her ignore me pointing out the signs.
I am afraid the entitlement movement has moved up the age chain and trying to teach human decency to self indulgent adults is a losing battle.
I am afraid owners need to build taller solid fences or electrify the current ones.
(Wardrobes??!! the mind boggles)

I am not obsessed with being in a photograph.

I agree. I don't like selfies. I don't use FB or Instagram.

In recent trips, I have taken to purchasing the pretty, picture postcards - "perfect picture." They come in varying sizes; some suitable for framing.

For some avid photographers or those who like to take pictures of family and the places they have visited, all well and good. I used to do that for the longest time.

Now, I enjoy being in the moments of the view - I "snap a memory" - I take it all in. Although, I may take still take a picture or two.

On my last trip to Rome, a night or so before I left the city, I re-visited St. Peter's Basilica. During my stay, I visited at different times of the day.

That last night, as I came out of the Basilica, it was on the tinge of twilight turning to dusk. Lights illuminated the Basilica and all its beauty; statues of saints standing guard seemed to awaken. The Nativity came to life shining in Glory; the Christmas tree sparkled in inspiring amazement. As I was walking away from the Basilica, I turned around a few times - each time, I saw something different.

Even as I write this, I can vividly recall that night; even the bustle of people in the December night air.

Good article and I totally agree. I enjoy photography (respectfully, I hope!), but feel no need to be in the pictures. Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting a picture of yourself at a place you are visiting - but there's a difference between standing in front of the colosseum and having your friend take a quick photo of you vs. bringing 10 outfits and a full picnic just for staging a "photo shoot". The instagrammers seem to be more about looking cool than actually enjoying themselves and their visit, which is sad.

I am afraid the entitlement movement has moved up the age chain and trying to teach human decency to self indulgent adults is a losing battle.

Agreed. Also, politeness and courtesy has long been forgotten. Some people need a huge attitude check.

I have witnessed this myself including people foolishly putting themselves in grave danger for a selfie for IG or FB. Personally, I don’t want to be in the photo.

Just found a short video about the real background of an instagramer's attraction:
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1149993990621683712

It is sad, and disappointing, that people have so little respect for private property, nature or other people as they fight for their "perfect" picture. Last year we went to see the cherry blossoms in front of Notre Dame, and they were beautiful, but I found it amusing and somewhat annoying how many Instagramers were lined up in their rented vintage dresses and hats posing oh-so-casually with books or armfuls of flowers beneath the blossoms.

I don't feel that the problem is with people wanting to be in their photos, but instead with these super contrived versions. No one believes you just happened to be sitting under the cherry blossoms in front of Notre Dame reading a book in a vintage dress when, unbeknownst to you, along came a photographer who snapped a quick shot of the special moment. So what is the appeal? I don't really get it.

I noticed the same problem he talked about with the lavender fields when we went to see the tulips in the Netherlands. We rented bikes and rode around the fields and I was appalled at how many people got off the roads to walk right into the farms for their photos. I had read how harmful this is for the flowers, as the bacteria that is tracked in can be damaging to the bulbs. Its especially frustrating because I have read about lavender and tulip farms that have fields especially for the purpose of allowing people to visit, walk through the rows, take photos, etc. If you really want that in the field shot, you can get it with permission in one of those fields without breaking the rules.

That being said, I am not above taking a selfie in front of a landmark or beautiful scene with my husband when there is no one around to take a photo for us. We are a family of only 2, so for me these are akin to family memories. I share them with my family and friends who live a distance away via Instagram or Facebook, and they tell me they enjoy seeing them the way I enjoy their snaps of their kids and dogs. But I mainly take them for my own memories. I dont have a good visual memory at all, and the beauty of things fades quickly in my kind, so I take a lot of pictures. It helps me focus on the details I normally miss. I could buy post cards with much better photos than I take, but there is an emotional memory connected to each of my pictures, like it helps me remember standing in just that spot, and to be that is invaluable.

I do try to always wait my turn for the best viewpoint, take a quick snap or two, and then back away so someone else can. I never go on private property or leave the marked trail. I hope that helps make me responsible in my novice interest in photography. I also follow many photographers on Instagram, but refuse to follow the ones who participate in the described behavior or post nothing but vapid, contrived shots.

In the end, I think the writer of this article is "preaching to the choir" (if i am using this term correctly?). Who is the audience for such a piece? The "wanabe influcencers" this man detests? I think such an article is just as self-indulgent as the selfies it rails against.

To modernize an old Dale Gribble quote... I blame the social media blamers.

Or better yet: I blame the ones who blame the social media blamers - that way we don't miss anyone worthy of blame! lol :)

I posted a question on this site a couple of weeks ago called "Selfie Sticks", I was curious about all the hate toward them and I posed a question about photo etiquette. That post and this article has really been an eyeopener. My wife and I are in our mid-50 's and we started taking the occasional selfie about 2 years ago while we've been travelling. She's got a large following of friends on Facebook that love to see daily photos of our adventures and so we usually start the daily post with a selfie of where we are and title it "good morning from..." and then we post a few photos of the sites of the day. In my opinion, a selfie can add a level of interest/personality to a photo. The key is moderation and etiquette, which is clearly some people ignore. We don't have a selfie stick and don't plan on having one, and at least I'm comfortable now knowing that even with the occasional selfie we take, I believe my photo etiquette remains acceptable.

The key is moderation and etiquette, which is clearly some people ignore...I believe my photo etiquette remains acceptable.

Very true Allan. Regardless of age, no matter what one is using to take photos (in general), it comes down to courtesy/etiquette and respect of fellow travelers and attractions.

I think you are absolutely right, Allan. There is a huge difference between what you do to share your travels with friends back home, and the contrived scenes on private property in this article. Discretion is the key.

Many of us have friends asking us to keep them up to speed while we’re on a trip. Just this week a wonderful blogger (who also happens to answer questions here) reminded me to send photos during my next trip.

People are morons, in so many cases. And they are so frequently entirely selfish and inconsiderate.

If you go to Zagreb, and go the Jelinac Square, you might have seen the Croatian military guard, marching around in mid-1800s uniforms. Fun to watch. I often try to take a picture. The problem is that morons with their cameras on video mode will walk INTO the parade, and take close-up pictures. This of course ruins the parade for everyone else. It's hard to believe, but I've seen it more than 1 time.

Good article by Paul the photographer. I think he makes valid points about respect for others, property, nature. I don't get these wannabe Influencers or Instagram stars. Just vain or trying to make a buck? Sadly, some of these popular sites might become restricted if countries are forced to institute laws to curb destructive behavior. Someone said the hordes of tourists taking photos is partly due to travel being cheap these days. I don't agree with that. Personally whether going close to home or far abroad it costs me significant amounts of money to travel. Maybe that's because I want to travel in relative comfort.

Keep in mind we're seeing a social phenomenon that doesn't simply boil down to selfishness or a lack of consideration, IMO.

Social media has made celebrity (for whatever it's worth) attainable to a great many people. There was once a time where you needed to be discovered by an industry (be it film, TV, music, sports, what have you), propped up and promoted by managers and agents and producers, and supported and pushed upon the public by a complicated and intricate publicity machine. People are now able to attain remarkably visible - even lucrative - levels of publicity through their own self-managed social media presence. Social media has brought that to the masses, and it's very appealing to a great many people.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting it's all warm and fuzzy fairness for the masses. There's a whole host of other issues that spring from it (social media "influencers" endorsing products and services, but without due diligence or disclosure for instance), a misguided belief fame and fortune are the end-all be-all, the superficiality of so much of it (objectification, pushing fairly unhealthy body and beauty expectations).

But when we talk about "influencers" and the whole selfie, self-promotion phenomenon it's not so much that all these unhealthy habits have sprung from nowhere but that technology has enabled a new level of it, with a new level of visibility (again, IMHO).

I say this as someone who is probably is a bit weird about social media - I'm neck deep in social media every day, professionally, but kind of minimize my use of it personally (I've managed and run social media accounts for non-profits and businesses with many hundreds of thousands of followers, but go out of my way to only link up with actual friends and family on my own Facebook; I don't like the idea of exposing my personal life to random strangers on Twitter; I keep my personal Instagram account locked and private and only let actual friends and family follow me; when traveling I love snapping tons of pictures of sights and scenery but rarely if ever include myself in the pics).

Not trying to excuse any bad behavior, so much as just explain it I suppose. There's more at work than people just being rude.

Allan, that's how I feel exactly! Friends and family like to see you in photos, it makes it more personal to them. Nothing wrong with that. It is all about etiquette.

I am really outside this discussion, I rarely take photos, and the actions described are appalling, but the author comes off as "these plebians are ruining my shots as an artiste".

Sort of like saying I wish others would not overcrowd Venice when I am there.

I encountered two issues like this on my last trip.

First was on a Rhine River boat, a tourist from Chicago wanted to show her sister the beautiful views and held her phone at arms length and was shouting at the phone to talk with her. I was as far from her as I could get and still could hear the conversation (thus I know they were sisters and from Chicago). She kept running back and forth to get the best view.
2nd incident was on the same boat. A Japanese tourist with a VERY fancy camera setup (a Canon with L glass) decided that his photo was more important then my or my dads view or my dads safety for that matter. We were seated right at the railing and he came rushing over and pushed my dad out of the way so he could get between us and the railing. Making contact with my father. An 87 year old with a cane. (We were in bar type seats and he actual pushed my dad who was leaning on the railing at the time back intro his seat.)
I saw him running back and forth and doing similar things for the rest of the trip.

The funny moment however was the evening on the Eiffel Tower. A 20 something couple wanted a photo (we were on the lower level with the seating areas and junk food) so the set the phones camera timer and ran over to pose. That didn’t work so the tried this a half dozen times. Never getting a good photo. It was night time and we were just relaxing and enjoying the view so I offered to take the photo for them because they seamed like a young couple that wanted a photo to remember a romantic evening in Paris and also because I was getting tired of them running back and forth in and out of our field of view.

For whatever reason they said no. I don’t think they ever did get a photo they liked but after about 10 tries they eventually moved on. (PS at the time I offered to take the photo a Paris police officer was within site so not like I was likely to steal the phone..)

So yes folks getting photos/selfies can be an issue.
Of course they can also win a Darwin Award like the one that fell over the side of the Grand Canyon.

but the author comes off as "these plebians are ruining my shots as an artiste".

Wow, I didn't get that impression at all. He struck me more as just admonishing those who may be guilty of such behavior (including himself at times) and impressing on others, including some professional photographers, the need to be less selfish and to be aware and realize when they are imposing on others or possibly being destructive to the actual subjects of their photos. I think he may have hinted that he felt that some supposed professional really weren't, and that instagrammers and those who are 'selfie' obsessed, don't even appreciate what they are photographing, but I never got any feeling that he felt he was somehow better.

Keep in mind we're seeing a social phenomenon that doesn't simply boil
down to selfishness or a lack of consideration, IMO.

Social media has made celebrity (for whatever it's worth) attainable
to a great many people.

I saw an older lower-middle-class teenager in the office the other day. As a part of small talk, I asked him if there was anything that sounded interesting to him as a career. He told me that he was currently building his brand as a social media influencer.

Perhaps the best approach to dealing with the issue is to have more photographer photographers - someone taking pics to show just how absurd it looks to have countless people trying to take the exact same "original" pic.

I've started to do that. If only to point-out the absurdity and ridiculousness of the mob, trying to get a 'perfect shot' or, a 'shot with character'. It started when I took my family to Italy, my parents stood in front of Trevi Fountain, mouths agape at the circus before them. Hearing all the police whistles drove it home, as they ran around shooing people off the terraces, fences, out of the fountain. It was really pathetic. It would be great if local newspapers and media would start 'featuring' daily/weekly Idiots Abroad, focusing on these 'photographers' and the pathetic lengths that they'll go.

Another example is on the acropolis. If you have ever been there, you know that there is a specific point of climbing up to the Acropolis which is through the Gate called the Propylaea. It is narrow, and the approach is up narrow steps with no handrails. We were there on May 23, and the crowds were pretty large at 10:30 AM. As people walk up, there are people behind them, yet they stop to take selfies. There are crowd-control monitors with whistles, who yell "no pictures", because pictures stop the ascent of hundreds of people. Yet the dummies stop to take the pictures.

One thing I've noticed over the years is there are a whole lot of people who call themselves photographers, but really are just people with cameras. What I mean by that is the barrier to entry for photography is so low nowadays -

Very true. I was a full time professional photographer for over 20 years. I have a B.F.A. in commercial photography from one of the most respected design schools in the country.

When I was a professional photographer back in the film days, the technical skill level needed was far greater than today, although really good PS work takes a lot off technical and creative skill. Unfortunately, many so called "photographers just use Instagram or Photoshop Plugins.

I admit I overshoot while on vacation. However, I'm mystified by those who go to places like Antelope Canyon and Horseshoe Bend to take the same cliché shot done millions of times.

Thanks DougMac, the Antelope Canyon article is interesting, and a bit sad.

By the way, as a professional, you're not over-shooting, you're bracketing ;-)

And now this happens in my country: Instagrammers fall ill after mistaking toxic mining quarry in Spain for idyllic lake