No Upgrades or Online Checkin on CodeShares?

The United itinerary lists them as BMI flights. I knew they were codeshares, but the notion that United would decline an opportunity to make more money by selling me an upgrade strikes me as ludicrous.

Everyone who buys a ticket on a flight should have access to the same services as anyone else on that flight, regardless of who sold the ticket.

I don't expect airlines to give away freebies to one-off customers, and grudgingly accept the notion of the rewarding frequent, i.e., business, flyers, but restricting the ability to make additional purchases -- upgrades -- because someone bought a seat on their aircraft from another vendor seems to me to be of dubious legality. Could any other business get away with that? For example, if I bought a new Mac from Amazon, could Apple refuse to sell me a memory upgrade?

All in all, just one more reason to hate the airlines and their abuse of travelers who can't write it off to some corporate account.

Steve,what I want Orbitz to is the online equivalent of what you presumably do when you sell a codeshare ticket to someone. I want them to put a link next to the "codeshare" label on a flight that takes the customer to an explanation of the possible implications of a codeshare. This is valuable information a customer should have prior to purchase and it would be dead simple for orbitz to do that.

You have to remember one thing....the airline has only promised you one thing...a seat on a specific airplane. That's it. Whether or not they want to sell you an upgrade is completely up to them. Nowhere in the condition of carriage does it say you have the right to buy an upgrade. (we all check the box that says we've read it but no one does.)

You bring up a point...could Apple refuse to sell you a memory upgrade if you bought a computer from Amazon? The answer is yes. They can even refuse to sell you an memory upgrade even if you bought the computer through them. (Technically, you could sue them because they are the only ones who make that specific product.) The point is you can't assume an airline is going to do anything unless it's written somewhere on their website.

I'm pretty sure if Apple refused to sell their products to Amazon customers, Id have to get in line to sue them, somewhere behind Amazon.

I'm not an idiot traveler, but neither am I a frequent flier. I fly a few times a year. However, this experience -- plus the rude and unhelpful response of United staff during the check-in process at IAD where they complained that I should have checked in online and refused to believe that I couldn't use to kiosk -- has soured me on the entire industry. The sooner those dinosuars go extinct, the better.

Sure, I posted it on Flytalk. So what?

I don’t know if I purchased a United codeshare on BMI or vice versa. It isn’t important. I bought a ticket at Orbitz for 4 United flights, including the two international flights. I wasn’t told by Orbitz that United would not allow me to upgrade or check-in online. I have searched the Orbitz site and cannot locate any such warning. I would expect that it is buried someplace at the UA site, but I do not consider that to constitute informing me of the condition. “Informing me of the conditions” means displaying that information to me while I am in the process of buying the ticket or after I logged in at United and attempted to buy the upgrade or check-in.

Going to BMI would have been pointless. Would BMI have sold me an upgrade on a flight operated by United? Would BMI have allowed me to check in on a United flight?

There seems to be an assumption among experienced fliers, airlines and agencies like Orbitz that the ins and outs of codeshares are common knowledge. They aren’t. Companies that sell airline tickets have a responsibility to put all necessary information about their tickets in front of each customer, not bury it away in some a legal but useless manner.

And... I had a United confirmation number and selected seats at the United site.

I can see why you're angry but unfortunately you're assuming a lot.

Orbitz has the obligation to tell you specifics of the flight. If it sold it to you as a BMI flight, they have the obligation to let you know it's a codeshare.

Upgrades are not considered normal conditions of carriage so this information is not required to be given unless you ask. (Most people do not inquire about upgrades.)

I'm guessing the flight number on your ticket looked something like BD4660.....am I correct? Now, being a savvy traveler you knew this was a codeshare and it would actually be on a United flight.

But, according to the ticket, you were flying BMI. Orbitz sold you a BMI ticket. (Just as if the flight you took from RDU to IAD was on a RJ, it may have said United Connection and had UA flight number, but it was actually operated by a smaller carrier. United pays that smaller carrier to transport you.) BMI was paid by Orbitz and they hired United to transport you to London.

So, you go to United and want an upgrade. They look at you and see first, you bought the ticket from a consolidator (Orbitz) and second they are carrying you to London and back for BMI. Again, they are getting paid by BMI for that seat, but no where near what they would get if you bought directly. (Orbitz takes a cut (technically) and BMI takes some.)

So, why should United sell you a valuable upgrade when they could easily sell it to one of their customers first.

As far as the ticketing problem, that I don't know. Probably a computer glitch.

This is one of the reasons, I buy directly from the airline I'm flying. Sometimes it might cost a bit more, but I know if there is a problem, they won't pass me on to someone else in another company.

Steve, I just dummied a purchase at Orbitz on those same flights. I no point before I would have had to commit was either flight identified as a codeshare. They were consistently identified as UA flights. The word "codeshare" does not appear in the Terms and Conditions. In fact, searching for codeshare throughout the entire Orbitz site returns only one hit, to a FAQ questions about baggage fees.

The search on Orbitz' FAQ page returns only one hit on "codeshare".

If a flight is not identified as a codeshare until after purchase, how can a customer be expected to go to that airline's site and search for language about codeshare restrictions?

The responses here -- all from professionals or experienced frequent flyers -- seem to blame the customer for failing to understand the arcane practices of the airline industry.

I still maintain that the business selling the ticket has the responsibility to inform the customer fully about the product they are buying. Identifying a ticket as a codeshare after purchase clearly fails to meet that responsibility, as does expecting a customer to go off-site during the purchasing process.

"Was your ticket in an "Upgradable Fare Class?" You may not know."

That goes to my point. Why not explicitly tell the customer everything about the product before the purchase? Why hide an important fact about a product? Orbitz does not need to post reams of information on the sales page. They only need to say that certain restrictions may apply and post a link to a fuller explanation that advises the customer to make additional off-sire checks prior to purchase.

The airline industry should not be permitted to operate based on the assumption that the customer is an experienced traveler. As it is now, it's all rather like dealing with the health care industry.

J.C......you're confusing the airline industry with Orbitz. You keep saying Orbitz didn't tell you. Orbitz is not the airline industry. Orbitz is a ticket reseller.

Had you booked directly with BMI, you would have been told, before you bought, that the flight was operated by United Airlines.

And had you bought through BMI, the conditions of carriage would have been offered to you to read, before you bought the ticket.

But the regulations for a ticket reseller and an airline are different.

Prior to your buying a ticket, the airlines did nothing wrong. Even after buying your ticket, the airlines did nothing wrong. It's their decision whether or not to sell you an upgrade.

Your beef is with Orbitz, not the airline.

My suggestion, next time, deal directly with the airline. Even if the price is lower on Orbitz, call the airline to see if they will match it. They might.

Steve, I just did the dummy search again. Neither UA922 or UA925 are identified as codeshare flights. The phrase "operated by" does not appear. The United symbol is displayed, not the BMI symbol.

In any case, the burden should not be placed on customers to know that the phrase "operated by..." is code for possible restrictions.

What I've learned here is that the airline industry can legally engage in misleading and deceptive practices.

Frank, the people who sell airline tickets are clearly as much a part of the airline industry as the people who own the planes.

"Apparently since you seem to miss things when booking online, like the fact a flight is a code share."

My point is that Orbitz, other agents, and the airlines should not assume the any customer knows what "codeshare" means, what the implications of the phrase "operated by... are, etc. They should be required, by law, to explain the full details of the product they are selling in plain and meaningful language. As it stands now, they can mislead customers and take refuge in knowing that no one other than someone paid to do so will wade through the labyrinth of their terms and conditions.

E.h., when I buy a ticket on a United flight and United sends me email touting online check-in and touting the benefits of buying an upgrade, and then refuses to allow me to do any of that with no explanation, that is deceptive and misleading.

Both Steve and I have tried to explain it to you but you just want to be angry. Go ahead, be angry. I'm not going to keep explaining this over and over.

I feel like an adult talking to an child with his hands over his ears and humming so not to hear.

(No, J.C., I'm not calling you a child...just letting you know how I feel.)

Frank, you've told me how the airline industry operates. i am attacking that. I have no problem understanding what has been said here. But, I do not accept that you are describing fair business practices.

For example, I think it is deceptive to label a ticket "codeshare" without also explaining the implications. It is not sufficient to simply explain that that the implications are found in voluminous arcane language buried in another business's web site.

If I ran a website selling apples, and tagged the apples with the word "codeshare", and then sold rotten apples, would I be less deceptive if the explanation that "codeshare" means "rotten" appeared on another web site?

Steve, to repeat my point one more time, I should not need to understand the machinations of the airline industry to use a web site. Orbitz has a responsibility to clearly describe the products they sell. When they either assume customers know the implications of a codeshare or bury that elsewhere on the site, they fail to do that. iIt may be legal -- and their agent told me they do only what the law requires -- but it is unethical. It's equivalent to a travel agent selling codeshare tickets to someone who is obviously an infrequent flyer and pointing to a sign on the wall when the customer complains that the conditions weren't explained.

All Orbitz needs to do is flag each codeshare flight with a link reading "Conditions may apply" and point that link at a plain English explanation.

Can I ask you a question about your desire for an upgrade? If you are not a frequent flyer with United, how did you expect to get an upgrade? You say purchase one...how much do you think it would cost?

Here's another one....most people go to Orbitz to buy the cheapest ticket possible. How many of those are thinking,....now, I wonder how much it will cost me for an upgrade to business class?

Next question...you're not a frequent flyer. You want to travel in business class. You buy the cheapest cattle-class ticket you can find from an outside travel agency. I also want to fly business class. I'm ready to pay for the business class seat. Do you think they're going to sell to you for less than I would have to pay?

BTW--upgrades have absolutely nothing to do with your conditions of carriage. Upgrades are usually only offered to members of United's Frequent Flyer Program. If you enrolled, you would have gotten information about the rules for upgrading. No need for Orbitz to have told you them or to have warned you because upgrading is not part of a normal ticket sale. It is conducted between you and the airline.

Orbitz is required to tell you that your BMI flight is operated by another airline. I'm sure they did. The term "operated by" is clear English.

I went to Orbitz and tried to book a flight on BMI from IAD to London....this is what I got as a choice:

Leave Tue, Nov 10 Bmi 4468
operated by United Airlines -- UA 0918

Depart: 5:48pm Washington, DC (IAD)
Arrive: 5:55am London, United Kingdom (LHR)

Non-stop * Economy * 7hr 7min * Boeing 777
* View seats
This is an overnight flight.

This the first thing I saw..way before I had to pay or anything else. So, Orbitz did tell you the flight was operated by another airline. And if you claim you didn't know what that means, then you are responsible for calling and finding out.

And with this posting, I am calling it quits. I have done my best to explain things but if you still want to be mad, go ahead. But you're mad because you want things your way not the way they are. No one cheated you. No one did you a disservice. In fact, you're angry about not getting something you weren't even entitled to no matter where you bought the ticket.

I fully realize that I may be stepping into a hornets nest by commenting on this post, but I just wanted to add my experience.

Last month I flew Delta (openjaw) to Paris and back from Rome. I purchased the ticket directly from the airline's website. I have no idea what their "U", "T", and so forth classes are, but I didn't really care; I was also looking for an inexpensive fare. On my return trip, they were selling upgrades at the gate for $150, but only to a certain class of ticket. Well, since I didn't pay attention to the class of ticket at the time I purchased, I asked the guy at the counter. He explained that I would have paid more for an upgradeable ticket at time of purchase in order to participate in the $150 first class upgrade. The class fare I had purchased was not upgradeable. Bummer.

Was there fine print that I missed? Likely. Did I plan to upgrade if I ever had the chance? Heck yah. Did it work out? Nope. Oh well, move on. This is capitalism. They are the airlines, they set the rules, if I want to fully understand them and capitalize on the ticket then it was incumbent upon me to read the fine print or call the airline prior to purchase. I didn't.

As a side note, if one flies intra Europe, one quickly realizes how many more rights we have in the US. Yep, the airlines have crappy service at times, but there is nothing like flying in Europe to make you feel lucky to get on your flight, even with a paid ticket in hand. They can bump you, move you, change your seats, revoke your ticket much more easily than they do here in the US.

I hope that you at least had a wonderful vacation!

April, you have it backwards.There are legal protections for passengers in the EU that far outstrip anything you are likely to get in the US. Among the rights that passengers on EU flights have:
Passengers bumped from a flight are entitled to cash compensation on the following schedule, even if the airline arranges to get you to your destination at or near the time when you were scheduled to arrive:
(a) €250 for all flights of 1500 kilometers or less;
(b) €400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometers, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometers;
(c) €600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In addition, passengers are also entitled to the following from their airline whenever a flight suffers a delay:
1) In the event of long delays (two hours or more, depending on the distance of the flight), passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails;
2) If the time of departure is deferred until the next day, passengers must also be offered hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the place of accommodation;
3) When the delay is five hours or longer, passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure.
How about in the US? If you get involuntarily bumped and the airline can get you to your destination within two hours, you are owed nothing. On a domestic flight, if you get to your destination later than that, you get reimbursed one half of the cost of the ticket, with a cap of $400. On an international flight, the cap is $800.

If you are delayed, whether through the airlines' fault or otherwise, you have no right to compensation of any kind. They aren’t required to give you food vouchers, or hotel vouchers, or anything at all. They can choose to, of course, but nowadays most airlines don’t bother.