No ice or little ice in drinks

I think this minor issue could be easily solved just by asking (nicely) for ice or additional ice in your drink. I grew up with this tradition so it's not something I give much thought to - I agree that many people who are used to no/little ice do tend to think similarly to the English and Scottish folks you talked to. It makes sense to them in the same way your way of thinking makes sense to you - different traditions shape different ways of seeing things. Unfortunately, even if you ask, you still many not get the same quantity of ice as you're used to back home...but how important is this in the grander scheme of things? Seems like your choices are 1) ask for ice explicitly, 2) don't order liquor that tastes better with ice, or 3) just roll with it and try to adapt to local preferences.

Was just curious what others think on this topic.

What do I think? When in Rome...
Personally not a fan of lots of ice in my drinks. Too cold and you really don't get the full flavor of the drink. And I don't care for the flavor dilution when the ice melts. But to each their own.

It's not as if European bars have never heard of the American preferences for ice cold beverages. If you ask for extra rocks, I'm sure they'll oblige.

My hypothesis on this matter is that it is simply tradition. Once upon a time, ice was a precious imported luxury in Europe. It was cut out of ponds in New England in the winter and stored in barns packed with sawdust to keep it frozen. It was later transported by wagon to a nearby port, loaded into ships that sailed across the stormy North Atlantic, unloaded to warehouses and distributed to luxury establishments to cool the drinks of the high and mighty. Nowadays of course, ice machines have made ice a cheap commodity, but still, when the bartender pulls out the tongs and delicately fishes an ice cube out of the silver ice bucket and puts in your glass and pours the liquor over it, he is saying "This is luxury, that is why our drink prices are so high."

Nothing brings on panic in an American bartender like having the ice machine break down.

The other reason is that Europeans and British people know that ice reduces the flavour of drinks with complex flavours like good-quality spirits.

Reasons we were told: (1) not enough room in cramped restaurant kitchens for big space consuming ice machines; (2) high cost of electricity to run them; (3) unhealthy for throat and stomach to drink ice cold beverages (try to explain why we still expect ice when weather is below zero); (4) a drink should contain a full measure of liquid, not ice.

Philip has the answer. Adding ice to spirits (whisky etc.) dilutes the drink and ruins the taste. Nothing to do with availability of ice.
If someone added ice to my whisky without me asking for it I would return it and ask for a new drink.
If you want ice, ask for it. Where is the problem?

I asked for ice for the first time ever in Europe 2 summers ago. It was 90°+ in Berlin and I was desperate enough to ask for a margarita (it was on their menu) at an upscale Spanish tapas kind of restaurant. They brought my drink lukewarm in a martini glass. I very quietly asked the nice waiter if he could bring me a small glass of ice which he did. He then asked me about how margarita are made in the US. It opened a little nice cross cultural dialogue. Sometimes I just have to hear ice clink...

Normally I'm a "when in Rome kind of person".

this topic is a specialty of mine!

Europe does not have a proper cocktail culture. In classic bartending, which is kind of an American invention, rocks are part of the recipe for a drink. They will melt a little when the room-temp liquor and mixers are applied. The water that mixes with the drink is part of softening the flavor and melding the ingredients. Even a little squirt of water is useful to make a martini, because it hastens that process.

I disagree with your English and Scottish friends entirely... Personally I never think of ice ruining my quality-price-ratio at all, I'm not concerned with getting every last drop of liquor, I'm concerned with having a well-made drink. This is hard to find, but the ice is often a player in a well-made drink.

I detest "whiskey rocks" or other solid items that are frozen in order to "not water down the drink". They miss the point. Good whiskey should be had at room temp. Other whiskey should be drunk with rocks in a timely manner. If it got watered down, then one drinking too slowly.

My thoughts are this , I drink wine so don't need ice , but hen it's hr I do miss ice in soda. They usually , but not always , provide you with one ice cube . So I drink it fast . Since sodas can easily cost 5 euros , are never refillable , and come in small glasses or bottles , I don't need a glass of ice . I have asked for extra and been given it , it's not a big deal

The "no ice" preference is purely to avoid the risk of consuming contaminated water.

Oh my goodness. In Paris recently, my 10 year old granddaughter had a "special" drink with apricot and ginger ale that cost twice as much as my one glass of wine, and it was filled to the brim in a pilsner sized glass with ice. It was a very special drink indeed. She loved it and talks about it still.

Some very interesting replies and with many topics everybody has their opinions and Passions.

I'm not sure I agree with the comment that the ice melting keeps you from enjoying the various flavors or whatever of the liquor. Unless you were drinking the liquor straight with nothing added to it.

Otherwise if you are mixing say rum and coke you are just getting a lot more coke then you would have if you had ice mixed in.

I totally agree with the New Yorker on the ice helping to be a part of the drink.

My personal preference is as much ice is possible because I want it as cold as possible. To me it just tastes better and is more refreshing. But to each his own

What I have started doing is whenever I drink mixed drinks at home if I use a copper Moscow Mule mug and they are fantastic for keeping the drink cold and in turn I don't need as much ice.

The next all inclusive vacation I go on I am going to bring my copper mug with me. Haha

Can I ask how this ever comes up on cruise ships or all inclusive vacations? I assume you've done a typical land trip to Europe (or elsewhere), right?

I learned a lot from these posts (very interesting reasons I hadn't thought about).

I was just talking about this recently with a scientist who says the copper mug is a poor insulator! It's true they FEEL colder, but over time the drink should be losing heat faster than a glass. Just sayin'...

As for soda, coke etc., I have just learned to enjoy cola with not much ice because I don't have such a finely-wrought argument for ice in my coke except that I'm used to it that way!

Drinking in Europe is funny. Most places are Wine Cultures, Beer Cultures, or Vodka Cultures. Rarely Cocktail Cultures. If they are serving cocktails you often get an absurd "long drink" with pineapple wedges, etc...

I remember 15 years ago in Austria asking for a vodka martini (remember 15 years ago people liked those, and I was younger then...). The bartender had heard of a Martini but thought it was just vermouth. I sent it back, kindly asked for vodka, straight, with a twist of lime. I got warm vodka with lemon. Ah well! Last summer in Ljubljana I really wanted a martini and asked for one. The waiter sent the bartender out, and I had to give him a lesson on shaking straight gin with ice. It was funny, and they were great sports about it. (They got a big tip!)

Can you tell I enjoy this subject?

I have a Zojirushi "Stainless Steel Vacuum Mug" (small thermos), which makes a much better insulator (and keeps drinks cold or hot for long periods of time) than a copper mug. Give it a shot, it works great!
http://www.target.com/p/zojirushi-stainless-steel-vacuum-mug-with-slicksteel-finish-smoky-blue-16-oz/-/A-50409140

Re: the cocktail culture comment....definitely, where I come from such a culture did not exist and still doesn't. It's definitely a vodka culture in Poland. Beer is popular too (and so are brandies) but not wine, relative to countries like Italy and France. The latter was always taxed too heavily and simply unavailable, so it didn't catch on in mass popularity. Countries behind the Iron Curtain developed different ways of doing things in response to constraints. They could not afford cocktail culture and lacked many products (and expertise) required to make a variety of mixed drinks. But, luckily, vodka is much more forgiving and requires simple potatoes and grain alcohol.

Agnes while I hate "whiskey rocks" I could definitely get behind a Zojirushi insulated mug for drinks! Especially in summer heat.

Nothing against Vodka cultures... Actually I love it. Mixed drinks (and those requiring ice) are rather strange, historically. They were first "punches" and then became more developed during the US Prohibition period. You could say that the whole IDEA of mixed drinks comes from the being cheap with liquor, making a small amount go a long way with addition of fruit, bitters, sugar, soda, etc. In this sense, your potato vodka or grain vodka in Poland was a luxury by comparison.

I love all of the above. I don't need ice to have a good time!

JTraveler, you're not a bartender or mixologist are you? Your libations knowledge (and enthusiasm) is vast!

Agnes, no - thanks, I'm just a drinker and a thinker ;)

Blockquote

Can I ask how this ever comes up on cruise ships or all inclusive vacations? I assume you've done a typical land trip to Europe (or elsewhere), right?
I learned a lot from these posts (very interesting reasons I hadn't thought about).

Hi Agnes, we were on a 14-day transatlantic cruise with 1700 people 1200 of which were Scottish or English, mostly Northern England. One of the first things I noticed, but I've noticed it on our other travels as well, was sitting next to all of these people and they would get upset with the bartender for putting ice in their drink.

Naturally, I just had to ask what their reasoning was. They all gave the same answer. You get less product if they put ice in it. I didn't criticize them at all or question it any further but I had my thoughts on it and that's one of the reasons I posted this

By the way towards the middle of our cruise I did notice many of the Scottish and English people were actually drinking their drinks with more ice as time went along. I don't know if they just got frustrated with the bartenders and gave in or if they decided they kind of liked it better with ice. So I'm not sure there.

I do think a few of them did because I noticed most every bartender went light on the ice and I had to tell them a few times to go ahead and put more ice in mine.

I will say people from the UK are much Les patient in general with these bartenders that have a hard time speaking English. I felt bad for a few of the bartenders. Most of ours were Philippino (sp)

No cocktail culture? I can get a well made caiparina in most bars in Europe with some good quality cachaca (if there really is such a thing) and plenty of crushed ice, but they are basically unheard of in North America. It's margarita territory here.

Jtraveler

That's curious to hear about your conversation with the scientist about the copper mug. Boy I don't know I sure think my drink is colder... maybe it's not but it sure seems that way to me

I love it!

I thought I had heard that one of the reasons for mixed drinks came from prohibition because of the nastiness or potency of the bootleg liquor being made. This allowed them a way of diluting or masking it

Sam - That's true, somehow the Caipi became the official cocktail of Germany a few years ago and it really caught fire! Also, almost any bar in italy makes a great Negroni - usually with lots of ice. But the secret is a well-squeezed wedge of orange, imo.

Putting a ton of ice in drinks is a US thing. Here in Canada, we do not put anywhere near what they do in the US. I have to remember to say no ice when I go to the US. Not sure why I would pay for frozen water when I want an actual drink :)

The spread of unconvincing answers is that you are trying to get a reasoned explanation out of people about something they have never really given any thought to. There's also an interesting subconscious arrogance at play, the assumption that your way is correct and others must have gone out of their way to choose to differ. And that they should be prepared to defend that choice.

A good way to answer any of these cultural conundrums is to reverse the question and try and provide a concrete answer why you do things the way you do. Most of the time you can't answer with anything other than that is what you are used to.

Let's try it:

"Why are Americans peculiar about getting so much ice in their drinks?"

excellent point Peter.

I was in New Zealand once with another person, who wanted an ice tea at a restaurant. The server did not know what that was, and politely asked how to make it. We told her to fill a regular drink glass with tea and add ice. She brought out a glass of hot tea, and with a flourish, added one ice cube, saying "now there you are". She was not being ironic, but was genuinely proud she had learned something. So much for assumptions.

Europe not a cocktail culture? Campari+? At least for 75 years of mix-ins?

Peter your response is unnecessarily harsh, and presumptuous about the degree of chauvinism in the OP's post and the responses here.

Zoe, I mentioned Negroni two comments above here... do those have Campari in them? ;)

I have to agree that ice is frequently part of the drink. A room temp martini is not my idea of yummy. One ice cube in whisky or scotch melts just enough water to really open up the subtler flavors of both. A room temp margarita? Mojito?

True - one has to go to a really great churrascaria (i don't mean a chain) to enjoy a really great Caprai. The last one I had was in family owned Tampa establishment that has sadly closed its doors.

I'll keep my ice - like all things - in moderation.

I can see using no ice if just drinking whisky etc at room temp in a high ball glass. IMO it is similar to people getting a shot glass of liquor just in a bigger glass. But lots apparently like to sip it. Not my preference but again, to each his own.

I don't like ice in my drinks mainly because it dilutes the taste too much especially towards the end of the drink a,lso when a drink is too cold you just lose any sense of flavour.As to ice in whisky do what the heck you like but give me mine straight the only thing that should go in single malt whisky is more single malt whisky.

I lived in Germany for four years and got used to little or no ice in my drinks.

Being from the US south, it is hot and having ice is necessary to enjoy a good ice tea drink. No one drinks hot coke.

However, temps in Germany and northern Europe are no where near as hot and people don't want ice.

Personally, I like good Scotch Whiskey without ice or water. You have to sip it.

Many cultures of the world do not drink cold drinks at all. The US south is no warmer than many of those places.

It is just that Americans use a ton of ice and assume that it is the correct way because that is what they like

I never ask for ice in a drink, don't need it, don't care for it, definitely can do without it traveling in the summer, whether I order a Campari or a Coke in Europe. Needing a lot of ice in the drink is an American thing.

In France when you order a Schweppes, you get one small ice cube in the glass. That's it. Of course, you can say to them no ice. In Germany when you order something non-alcoholic, like a "Brause" (something similar to 7-UP), don't expect the glass to be filled with ice when both the bottle and glass are brought to you. No ice, no problem with me in Germany and France.

I've been told by several waiters in rural France that they don't put ice in drinks because they believe it will chill you and make you sick! My husband gets simply desperate for ice when it is hot and Europe can be hard for the poor man in the summer...I, on the other hand, could care less!

I have had Germans tell me the same thing.

I've been told by several waiters in rural France that they don't put
ice in drinks because they believe it will chill you and make you
sick!

That is a spot on sentiment. They think cold drinks will give you the "chills" and that heavy A/C will give you the "draft"...in other words, both are assumed to give you colds. It's a weird, almost superstitious thing I can relate to because I've heard it growing up. Too much breeze, too much A/C, and really cold iced drinks = bad for your health...so they say.

Definitely. My husband and his mother (the Sicilian mother-in-law, heavens!!) are always warning me about cold drinks. And my husband DOES think when he comes to the States that the place is trying to cheat him out of the quantity of beverage he wants by diluting it with ice. They really believe that cold drinks do bad things to your insides. And he really does get annoyed with anyone trying to "short" him of his beverage! The battle is real.

The battle is real.

Yes! Although I don't believe in the "chill" or the "draft", I am convinced of the cheating and shortchanging. I don't want my iced tea to be full of ice and no tea!!! With expensive drinks, I get even more irate. The Germans are adamant about giving people equal amounts - they even have a line drawn on the glasses (with the liquid amount specified) for reference.

You can order a drink without ice and a separate glass with just ice. Solves the cheating /shortchanged problem... : )

In many (if not most) restaurants in the US drinks, like Ice Tea, are unlimited refills. There is no trying to cheat you out of your proper drink amount. Most people in the US just like ice in their drinks. It is a culture thing and why we travel.

Oh Germans LOVE to complain about drafts and chills, it's something my German friends and I joke about all the time. They will wear scarves in June to keep those nasty chills away :)

"In many (if not most) restaurants in the US drinks, like Ice Tea, are unlimited refills."

Not true of any restaurant I go to in SF or SF Bay Area. Maybe in corporate restaurants?... I don't know.

What about unlimited refills on (overly iced) alcoholic drinks? Not going to happen...
Most places I go to are not "family-friendly" and don't have unlimited refills of anything, so packing the drinks with ice does make a difference (to me). The places that do are typically suburban chains like Applebees, Dennys, etc. that have to compete on value and price...sadly, this is less true of urban environments in high-cost locales.

My Polish grandparents and uncles believed that cold drinks would give you a stomach ache. My cousins were not allowed to have cold milk with their meals, and were envious that my sister and I could.

I don't understand why people think they are shortchanged on liquor if the drink has ice in it. If you order a vodka tonic, the glass is filled with ice, an ounce of vodka is added, and then filled the rest of the way with tonic. If you have little or no ice, you still only get an ounce of vodka. The drink will taste weaker because more tonic is needed to fill it up to the top. If that's what you like, fine.

Me, I like ice. Lots of it. I want ice left over when my drink is gone, so I can have flavored ice. I never want refills on my iced tea. I want the ice. And don't take my drink because you think there's only ice left. That's mine.

Because that's my preference, I don't order cocktails or soda in Europe. They don't taste that good at room temp.

I don't get sick from my cold drinks. That's just crazy.

My thoughts exactly. There is no less alcohol provided. So your drink is just not as strong....and it's warm. BLAH

I think it relates to the cost of energy. Ice costs too much to make and keep cold so they use it (like all other energy) sparingly. It's also hard to buy a cold drink in a store because they don't don't chill things to the same standard we're used to. I don't think it's just custom or they wouldn't bat an eye when you ask for extra ice. While I'm there, I get used to using energy sparingly because it is a big cost for them.

When I get home, I can enjoy a cold drink - along with my heat and air conditioning, hot shower/bath, driving for $2 a gallon, etc. In the US, the ice is cheaper than the product, so most places here try to give you as much ice, and as little product, as possible.

There is certainly a difference in approach. I think it has a lot to do that Americans in general are lesser used to live with restrictions or limits like Europeans (has to) do among other things regarding consumption. In the US you have more space, so more space for bigger cars, buildings etc., there is more the focus on mass produced products, so obviously also mass consumption resulting in fastfood and also people with serious overweight. We lack that space so dealing with al kinds of restrictions like living in cramped cities with winding narrow roads etc. using small easer to drive cars etc., so learned to make more efficient use of the resources we have getting the best out of it, so lesser focus on quantity. So automatically you are more carefull about products and think in the case we discuss here more restrained using icecubes in our drinks.

Also it has a lot to do with respect for the product. For mass produced drinks it doesn’t matter so much but I think for drinks made with much care and attention like wines and whiskies, in some cases matured for decades “we” think twice before throwing in a bunch of icecubes. The code is “you just don’t do that”.

I know it is much more common in Europe than it is in the US for
drinks to be served with little to no ice.

This is why I always pack ice from home to take to Europe with me.

FastEddie... 😂 😂

I have eaten at quite a few different restaurants in San Francisco from fast food chains to white table cloth reservations only places. I get refills of non-alcoholic drinks at all of the sit down type places, sometimes to the point I feel they are trying to float me out of the place. Fast food doesn't give refills unless the drink dispensers are in the seating areas and you get it yourself.

When I was last in Germany I found it humorous that when I got a drink at Burger King or Macdonald's no matter what the size of the cup the drink was in, it always had exactly 3 ice cubes in it. And they would get upset if you asked for more ice. So I quit asking for more. :-)

In Germany, really cold drinks are considered unhealthy. In the day cares and kindergartens, they take the milk out of the fridge so it can be room temperature by lunch time. Have had old ladies beg me not to feed my child ice cream, that it would cause cancer. ??????
It is just tradition, just like drafts cause colds, or going outside with wet hair makes you ill. They have other weird ideas here too, like re-cooking mushrooms or spinach is poisonous, yet still beat people on the back if they are choking and have no idea how to do a Heimlich Maneuver.

Well, with Heimlich maneuver vs back blows, it's a matter not only of tradition, but also of persistent marketing and self-promotion by one man - Mr.Heimlich himself :-)

Ever since my first time over to Germany, Germans told me of the negatives concerning having an ice cold beer. As regards to German beer, they are correct in their assessment.

My mom is German so I grew up using very little ice and that's how I enjoy my drinks. My husband goes overboard with ice but that what he likes. It is harder to digest ice cold drink if you have a sensitive tummy. Though I have to say I was very grateful to a waiter in Paris and a waiter in Venice that brought us extra ice last summer, without us asking.

Funny, when we're in Mexico we're equally committed to asking for "no ice".

If it's good beer, I don't mind room temperature. Most of our ice cold beer isn't good beer.

Beer in Germany is served chilled or cold, it is not served room temperature. They just don't think it should be ice cold.

This is a great conversation. I'm open to other cultures; I travel to Africa frequently for work, I've spent many summers in Europe, and I'd live there if I could. However....the ice thing is nearly a deal breaker for me. LOL. I'm kidding...sort of...

I love ice in my drinks. In south Florida, it gets so hot that we do not serve red wine at room temperature. It's either from the fridge or it gasp! has an ice cube or two in it. I have a friend who moved to my town about 8 years ago and she had lived in San Francisco and had loved going to Napa. She was shocked when I put an ice cube in my red wine. Now, 8 years later, she gets it. haha

But a cold drink with ice in it is one of my favorite things...even when it's winter in Florida. It's hard to reconcile my love of Europe with their lack of ice in their drinks but I suppose I could get over it if I ever had the opportunity to live there. ;)

Oh my goodness, put the wine bottle in the ice (if you must), not the other way around!

Zoe, I know...blasphemy, right? It is what it is...Florida and red wine do not pair well together. :)

Have to add my funny story:

First time visiting Switzerland, from the US. We got off the plane and many trains and cable cars later, ended up at our awesome B&B in Murren. High up in the Alps. My husband is a rum and coke drinker. We went out to the little local store and got us (among other things) a bottle of rum and some cokes. Didn't think to buy ice. Our room had a small fridge - no frozen compartment though. Down to the front desk "may I have a bucket of ice please?" Looks of puzzlement. "Try the store." back to the store, they don't sell ice. Back to the front desk. They did have a restaurant at this B&B so we thought we'd be fine. Eventually I was handed one juice glass with two ice cubes. I had to beg for a second glass. Two more ice cubes. WE ARE IN FREEZING PLACE WITH ICE EVERYWHERE! (thinking not shouting).

My husband was a good sport, but it was obvious everywhere we went that ice is not customary. Especially not LOTS of ice like he loves.

Eventually an Italian store clerk turned us on to these cool baggies.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/ice-cube-bags
They cost a quarter! We rent homes usually, and so we now bring these and make us some ice upon arrival!

Ice lovers unite!

Those are cool. (Hah.) On my wish list.

I just got back from a trip and towards the end of my trip, I found out that asking for a "glass filled to the top with ice" yielded much better results than asking for extra ice. That usually lead to a bowl and a spoon with 3 ice cubes! I mostly stayed in big cities and found ice readily available when I ask. At my hotel in Bayeux they actually had a small table top ice maker machine that produced a small amount of ice cubes so I was happy! And one of the best things about staying in an apartment is that tiny freezer that has 1 ice cube tray so I can make ice to my heart's content!

I have not read the entire thread but as I love ice in alcohol after a day of fun travel and exploring-- here's two comments --
1) When we have an apartment my husband always makes me giant ice cubes for drinks in yogurt containers (after we've eaten the yogurt).
2) We traveled from Prague (where we bought the best Gin of my life OMG Gin) to Munich. We were staying at Hotel Uhland (RS recommended- absolutely lovely place) where we were going to have some of the gin on the rocks with friends. Upon request, the front desk they found us some ice (being super accommodating) for our gin. The next night when we came back from touring the front desk person said "Would you like more frozen water tonight?"
I guess the point is if it's important to you and you ask nicely it's been my experience that people do their best to help you.

Every cafe and restaurant in France provides chilled bottles of soft drinks, iced tea (cans or bottles). If you ask for ice, you will be given it.

In Hamburg on this trip I had a chance to meet up with two American friends just that evening for dinner. We went to a German cuisine place across from the Hbf. One asked for extra ice for the mineral water. Since I never ask for ice in Europe let alone in Germany, I did not know what the response would be. The waitress brought over some extra ice.

I think they use less ice in Europe for the same reasons we have larger refrigerators and every American has a car..the relative cost of energy. We underpay for energy in the U.S. and have lots of freeways so we shop for food less often and have inefficient cars and air conditioners as a result (and don't forget preservatives in food). It's all related to energy and waste management.