Need itinerary advice for a 22 day trip to Europe

It is unclear whether you are counting in your arrival day/night in your admittedly whirlwind itinerary. Even without that one, you must realize that travel, even between fairly close cities, eats up much of a day, what with checking out, getting to train stations, and getting to and checking in to new lodgings. With that in mind, I suggest you scrap Amsterdam and add a day each to Berlin and Vienna. Both are absolute feasts for museum lovers. The third day should be added to Prague.

I agree with Rosalyn as stated above. This is going to be a great trip that you and your son will remember for a lifetime!

It's difficult to give you feedback without knowing what you want to do in Munich, Prague, and Amsterdam, all of which have fine museums that you say you don't plan to visit.

Your itinerary is fine, though, if you don't mind spending some long days on trains. Looks like 6 hours from Paris to Munich, 4 hours Munich to Vienna, 4 hours Vienna to Prague, 5 hours Prague to Berlin, and 6 hours Berlin to Amsterdam. That's a lot of time lost out of 22 days just spent sitting on trains. The only question I have about the time allotted to each destination is that 4 nights is relatively a lot for Vienna.

Are you open to considering less of a whirlwind? Or a whirlwind within a smaller geographic region? Why did you pick these specific cities? And what do you want to see and experience?

Yes, it is indeed a whirlwind itinerary, still in the planning stages though, so I will be able to make changes without any trouble( just a little heartache, though!)

PARIS
Our flight should reach Paris on Tuesday at 10:30am
Tuesday -catch the RER from CDG to Paris( Marais, maybe Chatellat and walk to hotel). Walk around, take a seine cruise, try and stay awake, dinner and then sleep.
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday- 4 day museum pass, so will do Versailles on one of these days.
Sunday- Day trip to Caen, will do the DDay tours with Normandy Panorama.
Monday - train to Munich (6:40-12:30)

MUNICH
Monday afternoon- Drop our bags off at the hotel, and walk around. Do Rick's city walk. Evening at a Biergarten
Tuesday- Train to Neuschwanstein castle
Wednesday- day trip to Salzburg or just wander around Munich, maybe a Third reich walking tour? Not sure, I think we'll do Salzburg depending upon how much energy we have.
Thursday -early train to Vienna

VIENNA
THursday afternoon- Rick's city walk
Friday- schonbrun palace
Saturday- museums
Sunday - train, cruise to Melk abbey
Monday- morning train to Prague

PRAGUE
Monday afternoon- Rick's city walk
Tuesday- Prague castle
Wednesday -train to Berlin

BERLIN
Wednesday evening- will be staying near checkpoint Charlie, so maybe walk around not sure.
Thursday
Friday
Saturday- saschenhausen
Monday- train to Amsterdam

AMSTERDAM-
Monday afternoon- city walk
Tuesday- Ann Frank's house
Wednesday- museums
Thursday afternoon- fly home

I've decided that we will do one focused activity a day, and the rest of the afternoon/evening will be spent either in a coffee shop, or a biergarten or a heurig, so that we get the feel of the place as well.

Lane, I picked these cities mainly because of my son. His favorite class is AP European history, and based on things he has read and wants to experience, we've made an itinerary. Prague and Amsterdam were my choices, so I may give up Amsterdam. I would love to visit museums in every city, but I know that won't be feasible, that's why I decided on Paris, Vienna and Berlin for a focused visit. We will spend some time at the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam as well. I'd like to experience the feel of the places as well, which I know will be hard because we won't have enough time, which is why I'd like to one major/ time intensive visit a day, and do something slower paced in the evening. I'm planning on pre booking tickets in advance to save as much time as possible.

Thanks for your help

I'm a zombie on my arrival day in Europe, so I would not commit to the boat trip that day. I'd play it by ear and try to fit in a walking tour instead. Even I can't fall asleep when I'm walking around, and a tour of one of Paris's neighborhoods sounds like it would fit well with how you want to spend your time. In fact, I'd recommend considering one in every city. They can often be arranged on short notice.

Since you're uncertain you'll have time/energy for Salzburg, you could consider making it a stop on the way from Munich to Vienna, assuming there's a place to store your luggage. (I haven't checked.) You often have to change trains in Salzburg anyway, and the historic area is fairly small.

I adored my museum-rich time in Berlin in 2015. There are so many fabulous history-related museums and sites with detailed historical explanations. You could definitely use more time in Berlin, given your son's special interest. The city is really large, and you'll spend considerable time moving from one sight to the next even via public transportation.

I'm especially interested in Cold War history and could probably have spent a week seeing nothing other than related sights. The privately-run (and typically crowded) House at Checkpoint Charlie--apparently now renamed "Wall Museum--Checkpoint Charlie"--is a sort of museum of escape attempts that I enjoyed a lot. Since you're staying in the area, you could perhaps check with the ticket folks about less-busy times for visiting. It is open daily until 10 PM; I suspect it's much quieter in the evening. The DDR Museum focuses on what life was like, living in an (inefficient) planned economy. It, too, gets crowded. It's open 10-8 (till 10 on Saturday).

A former Stasi prison has been turned into a memorial site/museum with the awkward name "Gedenkstaette-Berlin-Hohenschoenhausen". English tours are conducted at 10:30, 12:30 and 2:30. They are quite good and are preceded by a film. There are museum-like displays (not covered by the tour) with English-language documentation; they overlap the tour content to some degree. Getting there involves a tram and then a bit of a walk--perhaps a mile? It was worth it to me.

The two major Berlin Wall sights I visited were the Berlin Wall Memorial and the Tränenpalast. Both very worthwhile. After six days in the city (there were some art and archaeological museums squeezed in, too), I still wasn't tired of the historical stuff.

I highly recommend reading about all the options before your trip and plotting the most desirable on a map so you can figure out a logical plan of attack.

Incidentally, if you're ethnic food fans, you'll stumble on lots of possibilities in Berlin. Tip: If you order a salad in Germany, you may want to get the dressing on the side. They really, really seem to like their dressing!

I forgot to mention that a "must-see" in Berlin is the Reichstag, especially for history buffs. As I recall, tours are free; but you need an advance reservation. You can find the website by googling.

This itinerary makes sense to me, given that you want to focus on big cities and certain sights as you listed. You've allowed time for travel between cities and down-time in most of them. You're never anywhere less than two nights. Your open-jaw flights are efficient. Your son's AP history theme resonates with me as a former history student (when there was less history than there is now).

Those long train rides are a chance to relax, enjoy scenery, go through your pictures, read about your next destination, write in a journal if you're keeping one, etc. Considering how often people post here with plans to "hit" multiple big cities on consecutive days across vast distances, I'd say you're in good shape.

I think Prague really needs a 3rd night, and why not make an easy stop in Salzburg?
Paris- 5 nights
Munich- 3 nights
Salzburg- 1 night
Vienna- 3 nights
Prague- 3 nights
Berlin- 4 nights
Amsterdam- 3 nights

In my earlier post I forgot to mention the importance of air conditioned lodgings on a July trip. You might be lucky and have some moderate temperatures; I know Amsterdam has a reputation for being chilly and damp. But you may have an unbroken series of days with temperatures in the 80s and low 90s as I did throughout summer 2015. North of the Alps there are still perfectly nice (though probably not 4-star) hotels without air conditioning, because--at least before global warming--extreme heat wasn't common enough to retrofit the historic buildings. Be sure to check that you will have a/c!

Thanks for everyone's responses, you've given me a lot to think about.

All the hotels that I've booked, though fairly inexpensive have air conditioning, they're all centrally located so that we can walk primarily rather than take public transport.

@acraven, I think you're right about the seine cruise, it may be a bit too relaxing, we may fall asleep on it. Everyone recommends to get their first glimpse of the Eiffel Tower from trocadero, so we might do that. And maybe have dinner there. Yes, we chose our hotel, so that its within walking distance to Checkpoint Charlie, Brandenburg gate and the Reichstag.i have to look into some of the other museums that you've mentioned especially the former Stasi prison, sounds very interesting.

Which would you recommend visiting the camp at Dachau or Saschenhausen?

@rosalyn, I'm planning on registering for just the dome, is the guided tour at the Reichstag worthwhile?

@ Dick, I've already started my journal, very useful in the planning stages, and I can't wait to write about my first impressions of each city we visit. And that's an awesome idea, using the long train rides to write.

@David, I can't shorten my time in Paris, because that's the one place we're going to do a thorough visit of all the museums. And besides its PARIS! But maybe Vienna, but that was the city we were going to focus more on experiences, the coffee shops, heuriges. And I heard about the free concerts/operas in front of the city hall. I think Salzburg, we will do as a day trip, I don't want the hastle of staying in a different hotel for just 1 night.
If I had to do 2 nights in one of the cities, either Prague or Amsterdam, which would you pick?

Thanks everyone, lots of great ideas.

The historic area of Prague is pretty small (and reportedly very touristy now), and it doesn't have as many museum options as Amsterdam. I think I'd go with the shorter time in Prague. On the other hand, one could argue that Amsterdam is probably a bit easier to return to than Prague...

I have been to Mauthausen and Buchenwald but not to either Sachsenhausen or Dachau, so I can't help on that decision. If reviewing guidebooks still leave you uncertain, I suggest going for the one that is easier logistically.

Have you thought about starting in Berlin? Then on to Prague, Vienna, Munich, Paris and Amsterdam? Take 1 night from Vienna to add to Berlin. Not sure if this plan would get you into Berlin too late to do some walking around on day 1 but I would think not. Just a thought. Just wondering if this order would decrease some of the train time.

I did think of reversing the loop, but then we'd be in Paris on Bastille day, and with our limited time, I wanted to avoid delays or being stuck somewhere.

The Reichstag guided tour is absolutely worThwhile. You will be taken into parts you cannot see on your own and learn some things that may surprise you.

Always love to hear that someone wants to take in as many Paris museums as possible, so I am with you there. Amsterdam and Vienna are also great for museum visits, so yes Prague would also be my first choice to drop back to 2 nights.

Take an early train to Prague, and a later train from Prague. For example,

RJ 72
Dep 09:10 WIEN HBF (Austria)
Arr 13:06 PRAGUE HLAVNI NADRAZI (Czech Republic)

EC 172
Dep 14:28 PRAGUE HLAVNI NADRAZI (Czech Republic)
Arr 18:57 BERLIN HBF (TIEF) (Germany)

Your schedule and pace seem good. I like the flying into Berlin and our of Amsterdam. If that does not work, what about starting in Amsterdam and ending up in Berlin. It would seem to reduce some train times.

Have you checked to see when the museums are open? You don't want to get too set in stone only to find out that the museums you want to visit are closed.

With 22 days, don't forget about laundry.

Surprisingly there are no direct flights from San Francisco to Berlin or Amsterdam, the flight that I'm looking at will be a direct one to Paris and will reach around 10:30, hopefully this will help with our jet lag.

And yes, I'll have to look at museum hours especially Berlin, Vienna and Amsterdam.
Thanks so much, your advice has been so helpful.

Hi,

I vote to drop Amsterdam if it eases your time constraint. Re Berlin: are you in Calif.? There is a direct flight from Calif to Berlin from Los Angeles LAX on Air Berlin. Your son's interest in history was even sparked more by his AP European History class...bravo!! Not very many high schools offer that class in Northern Calif If he wants to see something esoteric, special on the history in Berlin, how about seeing one of the oldest Prussian-German military cemeteries in Berlin. There are at least two, the easier one to reach is the Invaliden Friedhof, walk down Invalidenstraße to Scharnhorststraße (a name he should recognise), then turn left.

Berlin has tons of streets named after historical persons, such as poets, soldiers, diplomats, scientists, philosophers

When he gets there, I am sure he'll recognise some of the big names of the personalities buried there. Is he interested in seeing historical monuments and statues?

Hi Fred,

SFO will be our closest airport, so unfortunately no direct flights to Berlin. We're planning on flying into Paris directly. Still haven't decided whether we'll fly back home from Berlin or Amsterdam.

Yes, this trip was inspired by his love( and mine) for history. I will explore the military cemetery that you mentioned, it sounds fascinating. I know he's also keen on seeing places that were frequented by famous writers and artists(his second favorite class was AP English lit!), he talked about visiting the cafes that Hemingway used to hang out in Paris and so on. Either way, it'll be an amazing trip, a chance for us to spend some time together before he heads off for college.

So thanks for the tip, I'll add it to my list of interesting places to explore.

Hi,

The Invaliden Friedhof contains the names he should have covered in the AP Euro...Schlieffen, Seeckt, Moltke, Scharnhorst,.,obviously depending on his teacher. What would be interesting for you both is the Resistance Museum (Gedenkstätte deutscher Widerstand) on Stauffenburgstraße.

If you saw the Tom Cruise movie "Valkyrie" (Walküre was the code word) on the Army assassination plot against Hitler, go to the Resistance Museum. The movie itself pretty much sticks to the history, it's based on the Prof Peter Hoffmann's book "History of the German Resistance." (translated from the German). The last poignant scene was filmed at that location where the memorial site is located.

For a basic overview I would also recommend the German History Museum (DHM) on Unter den Linden, the 88 mm gun can be seen there ( as well as in London, and Vienna). The focus however is a bit Germanocentric, still very important and scholarly worthy of your time.

Flying SFO-Paris CDG you'll arrive prior to 11 am. That's been my experience. My first time to Paris (at 23), I was so thrilled upon arriving on that first day at Orly that once I had checked in to the hostel, had lunch at the hostel, I took the Metro straight to a museum, the Army Museum at Les Invalides, then to Napoleon's Tomb. He maybe interested in that too.

wonderful suggestions, thank you .

Hi,

You're welcome. If his high school offered AP Euro, I'm going to assume it also had German as one of its foreign language offerings...not necessarily. There are plaques, statues, memorials located all over the city, such as on buildings, parks, bus stops, etc....just depends on what you want to track down. I suggest also going to Potsdam as a full day's trip. See Neues Palais , which is part of the tour of Potsdam.

I saw Neues Palais as a part of the tour, then after that went back by bus since the tour drops you off at Potsdam Hbf to see the place myself but one can only see Neues Palais by guided tour, ie, no individual exploring. It was at Neues Palais in July 1914 where the Kaiser gave the Austrians, ie, the visiting delegation, what became known as the "blank check" controversy as a response to the assassination at Sarajevo. Being in AP Euro, your son most definitely know all that.

KLM flight KL606 flies from San Francisco (SFO) to Amsterdam (AMS).
Departs from SFO at 3:35 pm.
Arrives at AMS at 9:55 am.

KLM flight KL605 flies from Amsterdam (AMS) to San Francisco (SFO).
Departs from AMS at 10:35 am.
Arrives at SFO at 1:30 pm.

@David, in order to save time, we're flying open jaw. And I don't want end our trip in Paris because it'll be during Bastille day.

@fred, I'm not sure if we'll have time for a day trip to Potsdam, we're planning on visiting the concentration camp at sasachenhausen.

Thanks for all your suggestions

@ nirachundru....Choosing where to go and see is a matter of priorities, isn't it? Well, Potsdam on the next trip. The regional train to the camp is Berlin Hbf to Stralsund (the terminus), which stops at Oranienburg where the camp Sachenhausen is. Another horrific reminder and memorial to the opponents of the Nazi regime is Gedenkstätte Plötzensee, the prison where those caught in the aftermath of 20 July 1944 were executed. Your son would have learned about that in AP Euro.

Someone had mentioned there were no direct flights San Francisco - Amsterdam. I was just pointing out that there is.