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Need help trimming itinerary for 60-75 day trip across Europe

Like the title says, I am in desperate need of trimming down my itinerary and I am not knowledgeable enough about these places to cut out destinations. I will give you my itinerary below. I feel like I have some overlapping regions in Italy\France and I think some of my destinations can be combined into one and\or removed from the list. And some places I feel as though I might be spending too many nights there. Here is the itinerary:

Main Destination (days at destination)

-Side trips from the main destination are labeled by these bullet points

without further ado
Bergen(3)
-Solvorn\Sognefjord
Stockholm(3)
Coppenhagen (4)
-Odense
-Aero
Berlin(4)
Munich(4)
-Neuswanstein
Rothenburg(2)
Rhine River Valley(3)
Amsterdam (4)
-Delft
Prague(4)
-various side trips in the rest of Czech
Vienna(4)
Interlaken Region/Mountain Cities (4)
-Gimmewald
-Bern
Italian Lake District (3)
Venice(3)
Cinque Terre (3)
Florence/Tuscany(5)
Rome\Vatican City (5)
Nice/Monaco (3)
Provence (3)
Dordogne Region (3)
Loire Region (3)
Paris(5)
Burgundy Region(3)
London (7)
-Various Surrounding Cities (Bath, York etc)
Glasgow/Edinburgh(4)

Posted by
8164 posts

I would find following such a long, detailed itinerary very difficult for a trip of two months.
You may love some cities and want to stay longer. On the other hand, you may find many of these locations to be worthy of less time.
With the internet and WIFI so readily available and with laptops/notebooks, it would be easy to plan your itinerary as you go along--in one or two week increments.
Your starting month is not noted. I notice you're starting in the far north and ending in the far north. You've got to be very careful as it's easy to get into rainy seasons in Norway and Ireland.

I've not been to every location on your itinerary, but let me comment a little on those I've been to:
Bergen--2 days is enough. I didn't find the fjords to be that pretty, and I won't be back.
Oslo is a relatively small city, and I'd rather spend less time there and more in Copenhagen.
Berlin and Munich are both worthy of 4 days each.
I wouldn't go out of my way to see the Black Forest
Bavaria and Neushwanstein Castle are more of a day trip out of Munich. I do love making a circle SW of Munich and going back around to Salzburg thru Tirol and Innsbruck. It's much easier and less expensive to travel thru Austrian Alps than Switzerland.
I like Prague, but I love Budapest. I'd spend less time in Prague and add a day to Vienna.
Zurich is a business city, and I'd bypass it for more scenic mountain towns in Switzerland.
Three days in Milan is a little long, and 4 days in Cinque Terre is a little long. I would choose either C/T or Amalfi--not both. It's a long way down to Amalfi and Naples.
Three days in Florence is fine, and most of the hill towns of Tuscany are just an hour or so south of there. A farm stay is a great place to recharge yourself for a few days. We especially enjoyed San Gimignano late afternoon and Volterra.
Greek Isles might be better saved for a later trip. It's just so far out of the way unless you're taking a cruise out fo Rome or Venice. I'll stop at that.

Posted by
26 posts

Thanks Dave! I'll make those adjustments. After I saw Rick's video on Sognefjord I had to go. That's pretty much the only reason for me starting there. If it's not as fabulous as it seemed in the video, I might leave it off entirely.

Edit: So I took all of your advice and updated the itenerary. I removed the 8 days split between northern and southern ireland and simply replaced it with a 3 day stay in Dublin and I will squeeze everything I can out of Ireland in those three days. I removed Zurich and Lucerne from the trip and made the Interlaken\Mountain Cities a 5 day. I removed the Alsace Region in France, I think Dordogne, Burgundy, and Loire is more than enough and I've put the Greek Isles as tentative and will cut it if I can't find anymore trimming that I can do.

Posted by
2625 posts

That's an intimdating list to look through, but I'll echo a couple of things that David said. You need more time in Munich and Berlin(especially Berlin).

Looking at the "flow" of your trip, the Greeks Islands might bet better left off. You can use those days to see Budapest, which I haven't even gotten to see yet, but it's at the top of my list for my next trip.

Posted by
5697 posts

Get a big map and track where you want to go and in what order -- looks like there's a lot of back-and-forth. Moving between locations takes up both time and money.

Posted by
6544 posts

If I'm reading it right, 28 of your 60-75 days are travel days between bases. So between a third and half of your days will involve planes, trains, and/or automobiles. If you're not knowledgeable enough about these places to cut down destinations, why are you including all these places in your itinerary?

It's a longer trip than I'd have the energy for, but I expect you're younger and more energetic, and I don't mean to discourage such a long trip. Most of us would love to have that much time. Just thinking you might get better experiences and memories if you spend a little more time in fewer places. I haven't been to most of those you list, but I'd suggest that four days is about right for Amsterdam without the side trips, I don't know what appeals about Rotterdam, Budapest is worth more time than Prague, Salzburg is overrated unless you're a big "Sound of Music" fan, Paris is worth more than five days, and Burgundy is worth more than a day trip (or save it for another time), Just my own take, others might well differ. I also agree with David's observations above, to the extent that I know the places he discusses, and his point about starting and ending in the north.

I hope you don't expect this will be your last trip to Europe. Save some of this itinerary (certainly the Greek islands) for another one. Maybe focus on two or three or four countries instead of 14. You're way ahead of the people who post itineraries with six countries in 12 days, or plan to hop every other day between big cities, because at least you're allowing enough time overall to do a lot. But, even with 2-3 months, you can't "do it all," so I'd say pick a region or a few nearby countries (maybe south or north depending on the season) and focus there. If you like the experience, hopefully you can explore more in the future.

Posted by
3603 posts

I agree with much of what David says. Take a day from Oslo and add it to Copenhagen, and find at least one more day for it. Maybe if you cut the Greek islands? Berlin needs more time. If we're talking nights, you have just 3 days. You should have 4 or 5 full days. I haven't been to Rothenburg, but I remember that several posters on this site have said that it's somewhat out of the way, and that you can see similar towns much closer to other attractions. Vienna, like Berlin, needs more time.
You've listed Burgundy without a time allotment. A couple of days (3 nights) would be good.
York is not one of the cities "surrounding" London. You could stop there on your way to Scotland, but you should give it a night or 2.
I would skip Milan altogether.
You are giving short shrift to much of the south of France. Why not use some of the Greek islands or Milan days to taste a little of Provence as you make your way to the Dordogne?
You ought to start figuring out what you want to do at each of you destinations. That will help you to refine your time allotments.

Posted by
18052 posts

You show three days in Budapest. If those are full days, okay, but if it counts arrival and/or departure, then its not worth the effort. Just cut it from the trip. But then I could say the same about most of the other 3 days stays too. Do you realize you will be staying in 26 different accommodations?

Posted by
56 posts

Wow, you have alot on your plate!

If I had a choice and it was the 1st time to visit these places, I'd focus on those destinations that are in line such as Britain, France and Italy (which I know the best). Or choose Britain, France and Germany.

On one trip, I did a loop of England and Scotland in about a week. London, York (use this as a hub), daytripped to Edinburgh, travel south to Bath, onward to Oxford before returning to London.

For France, going from Paris to the Loire Valley on the TGV to Tours is easy. From there, I recommend going to Provence. I stayed in Avignon and used it as a hub for exploring this region. There are charming towns in Provence. This is where the French Impressionists lived and painted. You can still see the cafe which Van Gogh painted in Arles. From there, it is easy to travel east along the Riviera to Nice (which is also a wonderful hub). I suggest a daytrip to Monaco from Nice. It's very close. Then when it's time to leave, take the train from Nice to Milan.

For Italy, my favorite places are Florence and Rome. If you want to be near the water, the Cinque Terre or Sorrento (a seaside resort town).
Florence, Rome and Sorrento are great hub towns to explore the regions. 5 days in each city at least.
They are chockful of treasures. You will cry when you have to leave if you only set aside a few days for them.
The two cities (Florence and Rome) are tremendous for their art, history, food and people. I cannot say enough about them.

Even if you want to get away from the chaos of the city center, from Florence you can take a bus to Fiesole up in the hills above the city. You can escape to the seaside from Florence and venture to the Cinque Terre. I've stayed in Monterosso al Mare, the biggest town.

From Rome, go on the Archeobus tour which will take you outside the walls along the Appian Way. You will see the beautiful villas and you can take a tour of Christian catacombs. It's like the country outside the walls, very peaceful.

If you do go the Germany route, I think Munich has wonderful museums, churches, outdoor food spaces, gardens, etc. Take a daytrip to Neuschwanstein Castle in Schwangau from Munich.

Lastly, consider if you want to alternate visiting cities, small towns, seaside/lake resorts so that you have some variety.
Let me stop here.

Posted by
26 posts

Alright, I've taken the advice and I've done away with Oslo. I've also done away with Naples and Milan and added a day to Florence. I've also added Provence to the French list and added Burgundy as a separate region altogether.

Posted by
14560 posts

Hi,

You have almost 10 full weeks, the trip can be done. In 2009 I had 67 days, you're ahead with 75. I would drop Stockholm. How do you plan on getting there? If you drop Copenhagen, you take the ferry from Oslo to Germany at Kiel. The ferry station is within walking distance to Kief Hbf.

Posted by
26 posts

@Fred are there any specific reasons to drop Stockholm and Copenhagen? I've heard very great things about stockholm, but some people say coppenhagen is overrated, but I mostly want to use it as a hub to visit Delft and surrounding areas like the Fredericksborg castle.

Posted by
4158 posts

I'm guessing that people are recommending the cuts partly because of the distances and the time it takes to go between some places. Stockholm is a good example. It takes about 5.5 hours to go by train between Copenhagen and Stockholm. It takes over twice as long to go by train between Bergen and Stockholm or Copenhagen.

I find creating an itinerary is an iterative process, trying to mesh where I want to go with what I want to do there with how to get there with how to get to the things I want to see with the time and money I have. It's complicated and time-consuming.

Keep in mind that thinking in terms of nights is better than in terms of days. That's because it really requires 2 nights in a location to have a solid day to see and do things there. So typically, based on what you want to see and do, if you want to spend X days in one place, you need to plan for X+1 nights there. The more places you go, the less time you have to see them.

It would be a good idea for you to use Google Maps or Rome2rio to search the directions between places so you can see how far apart they are and get a ballpark idea of how long it takes to drive, fly, or take a train or ferry between them.

Regardless of modes of transportation, you're going to need to pack light. The last thing you want is to be lugging around more than you can carry-on the plane. You will also need some downtime to rest, do laundry, etc.

You don't say what time of year you are planning to go, but weather and the season can be a factor on what (not necessarily how much) you pack and on what you will be able to see and do. Foggy day in London town? Atmospheric, but probably not the best day to go up in the Eye. Want to see opera in Vienna in early August? May not be possible.

Posted by
11613 posts

I do similar trips of 89 days each, but I don't cover such great amounts of territory. I average 21 hotel changes per trip. You should start planning by looking at a map, making a list of your priorities in each place, then figure how much time you will need in each place.

A good guidebook can help you - Lonely Planet, perhaps.

Posted by
7175 posts

18 destinations over 10 weeks, equates to an average stay of 4 nights each. I would aim for this.

Posted by
787 posts

I envy you the amount of time you will get to spend in Europe!

In all of the posts, I have not seen any mention of what YOU enjoy, like to do, want to see. (For example, I love art of almost any time period, older castles, smaller museums, and love to read up on the history of everywhere I visit. I do a lot of outdoors activities on the weekends back home, so don't feel the need to do that so much while in Europe.) Also not discussed (unless I missed something): the time of year that you will travel, your budget, and whether you plan to rent a car or only use public transportation. Do you speak any languages other than English? (Not that you must, but especially with so many different places, it might things easier for you here or there.) Have you traveled much previously? Are you comfortable getting yourself from place to place in destinations you've never been to? You need to add in those very important elements before you can really come up with an itinerary.

Also, take to heart something I read in Rick Steves long ago, as I was planning my big trip, which was one month long. Plan some time on a longer trip like this to take a vacation from your vacation. Build in some time with extra days where you have nothing planned, so you can recharge your batteries and be ready for more wonderful experiences.

Posted by
14560 posts

@ cpsinkule ....I was suggesting dropping Stockholm mainly out of logistical reasons, likewise with Copenhagen. I'm not clear on how you intend to reach these places. I'll have to check your replies. From Bergen you can take the train to Oslo where you fly to Berlin or reach Germany by ferry to Kiel, as I mentioned above. Then take the train from Kiel Hbf to Berlin via Hamburg. The ICE trains go through Hamburg Hbf. How much flying do you intend on doing? Obviously, you can also fly from Copenhagen or Stockholm to Berlin.

Posted by
7175 posts

Amsterdam
Berlin
Prague
Vienna
Munich
Rothenburg
Rhine Valley
Interlaken
Fly from Zurich to Rome
Cinque Terre
Florence
Venice
Italian Lakes
Nice
Provence
Loire Valley
Paris
London

Posted by
226 posts

*# listed as nights in each location = 73 nights

Break down the itinerary (roughly) into 10 weeks

Fly into London
Weeks 1-2: United Kingdom and the Netherlands
[Actually 14 nights]
London(5)
Bath(2)
York(1)
Edinburgh(3)
Fly to Amsterdam
Amsterdam-Delft(3)

Week 3: Scandinavia
[Actually 6 nights]
Fly to Bergen
Bergen-Solvorn\Sognefjord(3)
Fly to Stockholm or Copenhagen
Stockholm/Copenhagen(3)

Weeks 4-5: Central Europe
[Actually 15 nights]
Fly to Berlin
Berlin(4)
Prague(3)
Vienna(4)
Budapest(4)

Week 6: Southern Germany
[7 nights]
Fly to Munich
Munich-Neuschwanstein(3)
Rothenburg(2)
Rhine Valley(2)

Week 7: The Alps
[6 nights]
Bern(1)
Interlaken-Bernese Oberland(3)
Italian Lake District(2)

Weeks 8-9: Italy
[14 nights]
Venice(3)
Florence(4)
Rome(5)
Cinque Terre(2)

Week 10 to the end: France
[11 nights]
Monaco/Nice(2)
Provence(2)
Burgundy(1)
Paris-Loire(6)
Fly home from Paris

Posted by
14560 posts

@ cpsinkule....If you decide on going from the suggestion of Budapest to Munich, you also have the night train option, BP to Munich direct, both cities are hubs for night trains, if you prefer that over the flying option.