MSN Lifestyle Story: Unwanted Tourist Types

I believe I saw that article on CNN a few days ago. I think Hen and Stag party travelers are more frequently from the U.K. but I'm just basing that on some articles I've read in the past. It is interesting that they don't call out rowdy sporting-event tourists? They've been known to do quite a lot of damage.

The good news is that the smaller Rick Steves groups will probably
still be welcomed.

Except that most RS tour groups are over 15 people? And I wonder how many of the larger escorted bus or ship tours might just increase their prices a bit and break their larger groups into smaller ones that follow each other behind additional guides? While technically meeting the requirements, they'd still be the same # of bodies.

I remember a taxi driver in Prague telling us problems started there when the cheap flights from London arrived, bringing young people whose goals were to drink as much cheap beer as possible. They were visible to us, drunk young Brits. He said the city wanted to stop those flights but that didn’t happen. And the driver barely missed hitting one of these kids who wandered into the street.
The cruise ship crowds are ruining many places for other travelers. Look at Taormina and Santorini, undesirable to visit them now. So sad.

Kathy,
The RS tour groups are maximum 24 - 28 people which depends on the destination as my RS 17 Days Best of Italy tour only had 19 people. Our Berlin Prague Vienna tour had 20, I think.

Judy, 24-28 people is better than the tours we took on our VRC of the Rhine. There would be 4 buses filled with the cruise's passengers that would descend on whatever port of call we stopped. In addition, there might be two or three other river cruise boats at the same location. It wasn't much of a problem at cities like Cologne, but at smaller towns like Strasbourg we'd be tripping over each other.

Usually each bus would have their own tour guide, but even then you are talking about 50 or so in the group.

We took Walks of Italy tours in Florence and Rome on another trip. They keep their group sizes to around a dozen. One of our groups was just 6 people! 12 or so is a much more manageable size. We normally do self guided tours, but the WOI tours were nice because they included skip the lines tickets. Our guide of the Uffizi had a Masters in art history and did a wonderful job giving background on the artwork we saw.

We were on a train in England when a group of women in a Bacchelorette group forced their way into our First Class Car and stayed there. The train attendant was too outnumbered to be able to make them leave and their behavior was noisy and obnoxious.

I'm sorry for the problems they cause locals like Emma, but bus tours do at least spend some money in the country and provide jobs in the hotels and restaurants they use.

The RS tour groups are maximum 24 - 28 people which depends on the
destination as my RS 17 Days Best of Italy tour only had 19 people.

Right. And that's an issue if Amsterdam will limit tour-group size to 15 (per the article linked):

"Amsterdam has introduced legislation to ban groups of over 15 people in the center from 2020, as well as banning tours of the Red Light District entirely."

I think the article is filled with travel snobbery. It is an example of someone saying, I am the right sort of traveller and you are not. I have been both a backpacker and a member of tour groups at different times so apparently I am in the wrong some of the time as well.

It mentions the backpacker tax here in Australia which is a controversial subject. My cynical opinion is that the government passed it because the backpackers do not have a vote in Australian elections so they were an easy target for a tax rise. However, a lot of Australian farmers who depend on backpackers for seasonal work were unhappy with the tax because they lost a lot of workers.

However, a lot of Australian farmers who depend on backpackers for
seasonal work were unhappy with the tax because they lost a lot of
workers.

I wondered about that, Ted. We don't see on them on this forum but Thorn Tree and some others comprised of larger and younger international communities get a lot of questions from backpackers planning to partially finance their trips with temporary farm/orchard work. It's evidently been very common, and the farmers welcome extra, seasonal hands.

One big difference between our so called backpacker tax and other measures mentioned in the article is that it was not intended to discourage backpackers. I am not aware of any major public objections to them doing farm work, and the farmers are certainly happy to have them.

Our government simply got greedy. I think they made a political judgement that since the backpackers cannot vote there would be no political backlash from imposing an extra tax on them. I will concede they got the politics right, but the economic result has not been so good. I have seen news stories on Australian TV showing that fruit farmers have had a labour shortage so a lot of fruit is going unpicked. It is low paid work, and increasing the tax has turned many backpackers off it.

Interesting article. I firmly believe that travel is a good thing and those of us who have the resources and time to take multiple trips to other countries or cities are indeed fortunate. I want to travel to see beautiful vistas, cities, art, and to experience other cultures. Countries have the right to put limits on tourism as they see fit. Anyone who travels needs to remember that they are guests, be respectful, and to avoid a sense of entitlement. It's a privilege, not a right, to be able to go to other countries.

I think the article is filled with travel snobbery. - Ted

Ted, your comment made be go back and re-read the article. One of the points that stood out to me was this:

With global tourism hitting record figures -- 1.4 billion tourist arrivals in 2018, according to the UN's World Tourism Organization -- destinations look set to become more and more likely to streamline who they want to let in.

I don't see snobbery. I see popular destinations struggling to respond to the choking numbers of tourists they are dealing with. Destinations, as well as local businesses are trying to maximize their business as well as control crowds. Disneyland and Disney World deny it, but they have used admission prices to control crowd sizes for years. They also control the total number daily guests. If there are too many people in the park, the experience is degraded for all, plus frustrations lead to trouble.

For many of the world's most popular destinations, there are "too many people in the park". It's survival, not snobbery that is driving their efforts.

I do think there is an element of elitism. If places are going to decide who they let visit, it's pretty obvious who they're letting in - the ones who will spend a lot of money.

The post-college kid backpacking around Europe is easy to turn away.

I've always felt the answer to over-crowded destinations is for me to choose less crowded options and/or times of day/year to visit. I'm not a better class of tourist than anyone else so I'd never expect them to allow me to visit while turning away less profitable visitors.

I have read a number of articles like this recently, and the "scourge" of Cruise Ships and large tours often comes up, and while I can see some validity to the argument of Density in these large groups, in a way one group of a 100 really is no different than 50 groups of 2. The issue is just too many people, even just too many "good" travelers would be an issue.

Unfortunately, I am not sure there is a good answer for "mega-problems" like Venice or Amsterdam. Like someone said, work to limit the numbers, the response will be increased cost, basic Supply and Demand, if you have the cash, you can get one of the few tickets to Venice in the future.

For smaller issues (Interesting thread elsewhere on what to do with crowds for the Mona Lisa) there may be some answers, but mainly on how to handle the crowds, not how to limit them.

As for the Beg-Packers and Stag parties, they are rather sensationalist examples that everyone can hate on, but I can not imagine, even in Amsterdam, that they are the biggest issue, or at least I noticed many more crowds than the occasional party.

As for the Beg-Packers and Stag parties, they are rather sensationalist examples that everyone can hate on, but I can not imagine, even in Amsterdam, that they are the biggest issue, or at least I noticed many more crowds than the occasional party.

I had my stag party in Amsterdam, we were no trouble....in fact we were so stoned on day two that we spent the afternoon in our hotel room watching Superman 3 for some reason.

I've petitioned the EU to stop tour buses, tour groups, group tours of attractions, cruise ships--anything having to do with a group of more than five.

I guess that is a good example of what I consider the wrong approach. A group of 5 limit would essentially keep many families at home or from visiting.

One could easily argue that having 50 people from a bus is more efficient and less impact than 10 carloads of 5 people trying to crowd into a site, and again, it would up the price and keep most travelers on here out.