I got to thinking about how Europeans travel all around Europe. I may be wrong, but I don't think they use money belts really at all. Why is that do you think? Are North Americans less careful, more obvious marks, or are we worry disproportionately about things that are statistically pretty rare?
And now especially with contactless payment via phone, are people retiring their money belts?
Chris, the huge difference between my travel within the US and overseas is that I need a passport to stay at hotels and to fly home from Europe. And legally we’re supposed to be carrying our passport. It’s a matter of my unwillingness to mess up a trip with needing to go to one of the few cities in Italy where I can obtain a replacement passport when I tend to be in smaller cities in regions where it would be very inconvenient.
And traveling solo, it’s a huge peace of mind that I don’t need to worry about being in a crowd, also.
Side note: I never use hotel safes. They’re very easy to open with lots of YouTube illustrations.
And legally we’re supposed to be carrying our passport.
That’s not true in the UK.
Actually in 60 countries I have visited I have never carried my passport around with me. Perhaps I am unique.
I use a moneybelt and don't plan to retire it anytime soon.
Let's put the passport issue aside.
If I lose my wallet, there goes my drivers license, credit cards, Medicare cards, etc.
Take credit cards. I can report mine stolen at home and they will send a replacement quickly. Overseas and I lose the card, they won't send one to my hotel.
Drivers License. I lose it overseas, I can't just go to the DMV and get a new one. And when I get home, how do I get to the DMV without a drivers license?
The real issue is that losing wallet items overseas is a much bigger hassle than losing it at home.
I could have written Jean's post! I always use a Stashbandz money belt and never use the hotel safe.
My sister-in-law lost her passport on our trip to Italy in 2019. Because of the kindness of others it did not turn out to be a disaster, but we wasted a sightseeing day fixing the problem.
My opinion is tourists walk, talk, act different than locals which makes them a target for pickpockets.
As another solo traveler, Jean said it well.
We have visited virtually all the countries in Europe, except Finland, a few former Yugoslav states and a couple of former Soviet Republics.
Northern Europe, especially Scandinavia is much safer than places like BARCELONIA (especially), Rome, Paris and Madrid.
No way will I not wear a neck wallet of money belt in a place like Barcelona.
We do mostly group tours these days and we have found that security is better for us, since in risky places, the tour usually provides a security person to help protest us from pickpocketing.
I live in coastal Georgia where pickpocketing is extremely rare, but in a place like NYC, Boston or DC, I either leave my important stuff in a safe place or wear a neck wallet.
the huge difference between my travel within the US and overseas is that I need a passport to stay at hotels and to fly home from Europe.
So do Europeans. A passport or their ID card if they are EU and in the EU, but Europe is larger than the EU.
And legally we’re supposed to be carrying our passport.
Ditto for many Europeans depending on where they are from and where they are visiting.
And traveling solo, it’s a huge peace of mind that I don’t need to worry about being in a crowd.
Yes, personal peace of mind. 100%. If it helps make for a more comfortable holiday, do it.
For me the biggest difference is that European have a support network close by and they have a more complete understanding the consequences when things go wrong. So, they are more comfortable as they are.
And I am not a big fan of room safes. If you ever do lock something in the safe and have forgotten the code, try asking the cleaning ladies. Often they know a code that will open it because cleaning out what the guest forgot to take can be part of their job. Gee, that makes me feel better.
Do I use a neck wallet or a money belt. No. But I sure do understand those that do. Around my home city I have a tendency to leave the phone on the corner of my table and carry it in my back pocket. But I know the crime rate with certainty and I have a support network and I know how to replace things. Do I carry my passport when I travel outside of my home country in Europe. Yes, many countries if not most that I visit require it. Thinking I am above the law just isn’t an option for me. Where? Either a crossbody bag or front pocket of my pants. When flying I wear cargo pants with zippered pockets. In Paris and Barcelona I … well, I don’t go. Not worth the hassle.
My Passport will always be next to my skin!
Regarding losing credit cards, if you have the lost card in your Apple Wallet, they can reissue you a replacement card directly to your Apple Wallet. Just don't lose your phone.......
You don't need them until you needed them - like seatbelts.
I think neck wallets and similar security-oriented belts, bags, jackets, trousers etc. are great for those who find them to be a greater comfort than annoyance. And I wonder why we have ongoing colloquies about them.
I adopted an over-the-shoulder bag - roughly 10"x6" - a man-purse. It's great - holds all the credit cards, passports, has security clips, and I keep the bag under the arm in busy situations. I've stopped wearing the money-belt.
I got to thinking about how Europeans travel all around Europe. I may be wrong, but I don't think they use money belts really at all.
What source of information led you to that conclusion?
I can confirm that everyone I have ever travelled with has never used a money belt. A small sample but still….
Sweeping generalisation klaxon, but I think ‘Europeans’ are more relaxed about international travel because they do so much more of it from a younger age, going on holiday, school trips etc. It’s not such a big thing.
I do understand why American travellers may be more ( overly?) worried if they have less experience.
I’m not sure why people seem to think Americans are different in needing a passport to travel home and therefore must have it strapped around their waist. People in Europe need passports to travel home too :-)
I get the impression that the obsession with money belts might be a bit of a Rick Steves ‘thing’. What Rick says is the gospel. It would be interesting to know if other American travellers who don’t follow Rick are as keen on money belts.
Obviously everyone should travel how they wish, there aren’t too many important rights and wrongs but I do think the worries around this issue are disproportionate and to an extent self fulfilling.
I'd never heard of such things before I started frequenting this forum. I've been around various European cities since my teens and never considered using these sort of gadgets. Just a modicum of savvy keeps you safe from being a victim of crime I've found.
"What source of information led you to that conclusion?"
Personal conversations with Sicilians and reading German language posts to Reddit about travel. Reading this forum
The “overkill” lies in the number of times this issue has been discussed in this forum. I wonder if there is any chance the webmaster would block the topic? It is the same responses every time it come up.
And now especially with contactless payment via phone, are people retiring their money belts?
I don't use a money belt for "security" (worry of pickpockets) reasons. I use one because it is the best method to ensure I am not forgetting or losing my passport (and any big bills or back up CCs). With a money belt, our passports cannot be left behind, can't be dropped, can't be misplaced, can't be stolen, etc..
I do not , however, wear one (nor carry the passports) once we've arrived at our hotel and I can safely leave it (belt, passport, extra cash, etc) there. In day to day travel, I have carry a couple of my credit cards and some cash. Plus my phone. Everything else is back at the hotel.
I think ‘Europeans’ are more relaxed about international travel because they do so much more of it from a younger age, going on holiday, school trips etc. It’s not such a big thing.
Going on an 'international' trip for Europeans requires must less time/distance/effort. because a foreign country isn't very far away.
Seattle to Phoenix is ~1400 miles
London to Rome is ~1200 miles.
As for money belts, US travelers probably do stand out more than a German visiting Austria, making them an easier more obvious target .
... in risky places, the tour usually provides a security person to help protest us from pickpocketing.
Just curious, what tour company offers this?
At home I keep cash and cards in my wallet, in my front pocket. When I'm traveling I do the same. I do not use a moneybelt or similar, because it's (in my opinion) unnecessary. I really don't think tourists stand out - I've certainly never felt that as an Australian.
If I'm in a country where it's a legal requirement to carry my passport, I keep this in an inner zip pocket of my jacket (if it's cold) or in my front trousers pocket. Otherwise I leave it at the hotel, where I also leave a couple of backup credit cards.
But if it gives you peace of mind, then that's what's important when you're on holiday, right?
TC,
We have taken six Gate 1 Travel tours, one in the Western USA (no security for that one); Egypt; Ireland (no security person); India and Nepal; Danube Cruise and Northern Spain and Southern France.
We had security on the Egypt, India and Nepal; and Northern Spain and Southern France.
The Northern Spain and Southern France tour started in Barcelona and it had the most security of all them. We had two security men as well as the guide in Barcelona and Madrid.
Joe32F I wasn’t being critical of Americans when I said Europeans were more relaxed because they travel younger and of course I am aware of the relative distances involved. It was just an attempt at an explanation about why most Europeans are a lot less nervous than many Americans.
I am genuinely bemused about why extra security was required for a tour in northern Spain and Southern France. What on earth did they do?
It would be interesting to know if other American travellers who don’t follow Rick are as keen on money belts.
This was an interesting thought. I realized I travel every so often with women who were traveling before me (although less frequently) and maybe know who Rick is - and they don’t use one. They do use crossbody bags and caution, but no neck wallets or money belts. I haven’t used one in quite some time, although I did for my first few European trips.
I've been traveling internationally for 50 years. I never used a money belt until I stumbled onto Rick Steves in the '90's. There was so much talk about money belts that I tried them...or a leg wallet. It was OK and on my first totally solo international trip in the 2015 I used one in transit. I stopped. For me, I find it unnecessary and just one more thing to keep track of. I use a small secure purse and an interior pocket on my blazer. Well, it is a RS neck pouch sewn into my blazer. LOL So maybe I do use one? But that is for my transport days. Otherwise, I just use my small purse and I do carry my Passport with me, as well as a credit card and my mobile. I want to be able to leave the country if I have to do so without returning to my hotel room. Weird, I know, but that's me. If money belts make you feel more secure, then wear them. Do whatever makes you feel safe so that you will travel. For me, I just find them more confusing.
I think comparing Americans traveling to Europe vs Europeans traveling around Europe is like apples and oranges. What is an equivalent, IMO, is an American traveling around the US. I don't think there are Americans wearing a money belt if they live in New England and are heading to Arizona, just like someone from Denmark wouldn't wear one when heading to Croatia. Just my 2 cents.
I live here and I wear a money belt when I travel to cities like Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, etc. as well as when I walk the Camino. Why wouldn't I? You can't even feel it. Better safe than sorry.
Every day life in Germany? No, a money belt is not needed, though I do wear a cross body messenger bag or a hip pack, worn cross body. (no one wears them around their waist)
No, you are not required to carry your passport in Germany. Makes your life easier if you have it on you and they don't have to go to your hotel with you, but you are not legally required to have it on your person.
The “overkill” lies in the number of times this issue has been discussed in this forum. I wonder if there is any chance the webmaster would block the topic? It is the same responses every time it come up.
@Steve - Agreed !! This topic has been hammered to death, with some of the same posters repeating their views over and over and over again (ahem, speaking of "obsession"). Those who see the good in moneybelts will wear one, those who don't, won't. If an unsuspecting new poster asks about this, any one of the dozens of links on the topic should give them all the pros and cons to consider.
Yes…it does seem to be the most talked about topic here.
Solo female traveller here.
I wear an underclothing money belt while traveling….everywhere but in the UK, as I am at friends or family homes there, not hotels or rental apartments.
It really would be a monumental pain to replace stolen cards and passport while traveling 9,000 kms from home.
I feel more secure and don’t worry when I’m out and about.
If a pickpocket wants my crossbody bag with lip balm, bandaids and a few wet wipes,they are welcome to it.
I’ll have my really important stuff in my “deep storage”.
Well if you want to block this topic then please also block carry on versus checked, cash or no cash, carry a passport or don’t…etc etc etc. There are lots of topics with repetition…easy enough to skip the topic if it is irrelevant to you.
For good or ill, the RS forum consists for most of the 25 posts on the first page. I doubt that the search function is used much. I have trouble finding it. So, "repetitive topics" are only such for those who live to post on the RS forum. For most non-crazy people, if they don't see it right away, they post about it.
I have lived and traveled overseas for 25 years, in Europe and Africa. I have never had a money belt. I never carry my passport with me - I leave it in my accommodation. Never been mugged. US Passports aren't really that interesting to folks anymore. I don't ever use cash. I know that if something were to happen to my passport (I am much more likely to misplace it), then I can easily go to the nearest Embassy and have an emergency passport the same day. If I was in a situation that required me to show my ID to the authorities, then I would make use of the rule that I have a reasonable amount of time to show my ID, with the exception of Italy where it is required to carry your passport.
A seatbelt saves your life. Carrying a moneybelt won't save my life. It is overkill and North Americans are often easy targets, in my opinion.
If you lose a US passport and go to get a replacement, it is more than likely it will be a temporary passport and will not be accepted everywhere. This includes several countries in Europe.
I also bellieve a European residency card is tied to your US passport. A temporary passport will not be registed with your residency country.
This and many other topics do come up from time-to-time. However, individuals new to this forum may find the information/comments helpful. I would suggest if you don't need or care to read the information in a particular thread you skip the thread. Seems it would save you some aggravation. As for me, I enjoy reading others perspectives. Oh, and I sometimes us ea money belt and sometimes I don't. Last trip I use a Scott-E-Vest which is another thread that's be repeated in the past.
Happy and safe travels everyone.
Traveler Girl
Never leave home without your Tilley, zip off pants, money belt and passport holder.
In over 40 years of global travel, I never felt a need for a neck wallet or money belt. 90% of my travel was solo. On foreign trips, I almost always carry my passport in a front pocket. I carry my wallet in a back pocket. I have survived the train stations in China, India, wandered aimlessly in Naples, Detroit and Washington, I have never had my pocket picked, and except for ending up in the wrong neighborhoods from time to time, never worried about being robbed.
I do use hotel room safes, but only when I am in the room.
Do as you please and do what you feel is necessary.
An endless unsolvable question that this forum provides a half life similar to plutonium. My only question is how many Americans wear money belts, neck belts and such traveling domestically?
Just for a fun story. Husband always carried his passport in his back pocket. Was checking into the Milan airport, and the automatic check in machine was on the blink. He put his passport back in his pocket and walked over to the counter. Just like that, it was gone.
People never have problems until they do. Have had so many friends get pick pocketed in Paris, and they were the ones that thought a money belt was over kill.
I agree with you. But, I use a crossbody Pacsafe purse and carry my wallet and passport with me daily. It's just easier, and I don't like the bulk of anything around my waist or neck. I also carry my husband's wallet and passport when in crowded areas and on public transportation.
I use the same purse when traveling domestically as well--mainly because I'm lazy and don't like switching out purses.
In the end this discussion is about personal comfort with risk.
A European traveling from London to Turin or London to Prague is the geographic equivalent of an American driving from Norfolk, VA to Nashville, TN. It's practically their backyard. They travel internationally by default from a young age, so they view the risk differently.
But when an American travels halfway around the world, the distance may magnify their perceived risk. At that point, it just comes down to one's personal comfort with risk. People need various "insurance policies" when they travel to enjoy their trip.
This thread is different because it's on the broader topic of overkill. But when this topic comes up, I don't understand the passion in the responses. If someone is seeking product advice, it's not up to me to persuade them away from money belts, and in that case, my opinion really doesn't matter.
Personally, I find money belts to be overkill, and I don't use them or neck wallets. I still happily tap around London with a physical Oyster Card. So I'm not going to criticize someone else for wanting their security. It's like arguing over back bacon versus belly bacon. It's all bacon, so why are we arguing about it? It’s just about what level of risk you're comfortable carrying.
For those who seem irritated about this topic... Before I created it, I did a 6 month search for "money belt" and in three pages of hits there was only one topic specific to money belts and that was someone asking opinions of a particular product. There were tangential threads about passports, money, and security, but nothing specifically about whether people were ditching their money belts. I just did the same search again thinking I might have missed the pile of money belt threads. The phrase shows up in responses but there just isn't a topic about it.
This was a post by a UK resident that got me thinking about my previous conversations and ultimately led to this topic
I think a European traveller could find many useful things in an RS book. However, the overall tone is jarring for people who have travelled to other parts of Europe regularly since they were babes in arms and don’t see it as being much of a big deal. I’m thinking about the scam warnings, money belts and that kind of thing...
I'd been to Europe over a dozen times before I went on my first RS tour. I had already bought several RS guides and also watched his show. I always found them helpful.
Anyway, never used a money belt.
Then I went on my first RS tour-- fantastic by the way. And as I got up to head to the Vienna airport after the tour finished, I said "where did I leave my passport?" I was pretty sure it was in my back pocket the night before. I searched and searched and searched. Nothing. I called our RS guide to get the name of the restaurant where we had the farewell dinner. The restaurant didn't have it. The hotel didn't have it. The police didn't have it.
My wife and kids flew home and stayed a few extra days while I got replacement.
Would a money belt or a neck wallet have prevented it? I dunno. All I know is that I've used my new RS neck wallet often (all always on RS tours) ever since. My only firm conclusion is that my wife is right: I am indeed sometimes an idiot.
But I do think Chris and the UK commentators make good points too. Good topic!
Happy travels.
Bottom line....
If you want to wear a money belt, wear a money belt. If you don't want to, don't.
If you want to carry your passport with you, carry your passport with you. If you don't want to, don't.
If you want to carry cash, carry cash. If you don't want to, don't.
Everyone should do whatever they want. The question is why does it matter what someone else does? Does it have an affect on you? Probably not, so what does it matter?
I'd probably draw the line at keeping my wallet / phone / passport in the back pocket of my jeans to be fair. That's just asking for it...
Thinking about it, I did keep my wallet in my back pocket years ago when I lived in Scotland and was driving everywhere. I don't remember making a conscious decision to switch to the front pocket but I wouldn't do it now. You still see women with a phone in their back pocket sometimes in London, mainly because women's trousers / jeans tend towards having pockets too small or being too tight to keep it in the front I think. It always catches my eye as a bit risky though.
"Everyone should do whatever they want."
But what if someone likes to listen to ABBA loudly while they exercise next to me and I find that music crushes my soul? Huh?
I think we have to agree on some minimum standards of decency-- like limits on how loud one can play Abba.
How 'bout we meet in the middle agree to set a limit on say, oh, I dunno, nothing worse than say Fleetwood Mac?
happy travels
Reading back what I wrote further up, I hope my "asking for it" comment isn't misconstrued. It's typical language people may use in victim blaming, and that isn't my intention at all. It's just an, admittedly crude, way of illustrating my "modicum of savvy" theory versus being overly paranoid.
Keeping my wallet and phone in my front pocket is not something I would do out of some deep seated fear of being pickpocketed, just basic common sense without giving it much thought.
Money belts or not, checking luggage vs carry on, cash vs card only - IMO it just takes one searing event to change your behavior. For example, my cocky brother, who poo poo'd a money belt, was brazenly pickpocketed of wallet and phone in a Paris elevator, and it wrecked their whole time in the city, while he worked to get cash, a new passport, and a new phone. Had this ever happened to him at home? Nope. And if it had happened at home, it would have been much easier to replace those things.
Same with checking luggage - we always check because we've never lost a bag at the start of a trip (and we've traveled for decades.) If we did lose a bag? Maybe our choices would change.
My philosophy is that I will make my choices based on my experiences and my risk aversion, and not turn my nose up at others who choose differently.
Keeping my wallet and phone in my front pocket is not something I would do out of some deep seated fear of being pickpocketed, just basic common sense without giving it much thought.
@GerryM - Where do you keep your phone and wallet. Is everything in a hidden travel wallet or neck wallet?
Is everything in a hidden travel wallet or neck wallet?
No. Just in the front pocket of my jeans or whatever trousers. Like I said above, I've never felt the need for such high security measures.
Carrying a wallet is a bit outdated altogether. Not many younger people would carry a leather wallet these days. I do it just out of habit even though there's never any cash in it, just one debit card.
In Budapest my money clip sort of sized wallet is in the front pocket. It has my residency card which is an acceptable substitution for a passport here. My back pocket is my phone except on a tram or metro when I hold it. Sitting in a bar or restaurant I put the phone on the table. I dont carry much more than that.
Outside of the city, everything is in a small crossbody bag that never comes off, and sometimes in zipper pants pockets. More about me forgetting or losing stuff than it is about anyone stealing from me.
@GerryM
Sorry, I completely 180° misread your meaning. I took it to mean you would never carry things in your front pocket. It seemed backwards logic to me since that’s much safer than any other pocket. Lo and behold, it was backwards :-)
On this forum, I seem to be in the minority, though I suspect that among travelers who do not read these forums, I am in the majority.
I do not use a money belt.
In better hotels, I use the room safe, especially on a day when no cleaning is scheduled to be done. In fact, on a RS tour several months ago, the guide recommended using the room safes. But certainly safer is putting valuables in a suitcase with a combination lock.
I try to be careful, especially in crowds. I put my wallet in my front pants pocket or in a zippered coat pocket (preferably an inside pocket). My fear is inadvertently putting my wallet in my back pocket rather than a front pocket.
One of my biggest annoyances about European travel: paranoia, however necessary. I seem to literally check my pockets every five minutes to make sure I still have my wallet and cell phone.
Frank II is spot on!! Do what makes you the most comfortable, and to heck with what anyone else thinks. If they are not paying your bills, then their opinion shouldn't really bother you. And sometimes not even then.
One of my biggest annoyances about European travel: paranoia, however necessary. I seem to literally check my pockets every five minutes to make sure I still have my wallet and cell phone.
Hopefully you are discreet about doing it, so as not to be telling a potential pickpocket where all the good stuff is.
Joe, you got me! Probably not discreetly enough, though I do it when moving and not in a crowd.
I am sure I will regret these words, but my fear is not being pickpocketed but being careless--leaving a credit card on the table, taking off my jacket or coat with wallet inside a buttoned or zippered, inside pocket, or carelessly just sticking my wallet in my back pocket where it can easily be stolen instead of my front pocket.
For me, the important thing is not what the thief knows but whether I have my wallet in a safe place and am paying attention. If I have my wallet in a front pants pocket and my hand on the pocket, it won't be theft if someone takes it--it will be robbery.
my fear is not being pickpocketed but being careless--leaving a credit
card on the table, taking off my jacket or coat with wallet inside a
buttoned or zippered, inside pocket, or carelessly just sticking my
wallet in my back pocket where it can easily be stolen instead of my
front pocket.
RJ, you nailed it for me. I suspect a large number of the pickpocket victims just lost their stuff. I am always forgetting things.
I leave the house 3 times each morning and return to get something I forgot. My wallet gets forgotten in my pants and washed a few times a year. Waitresses chase me down the street with my cap or sunglasses a few times a year. I do stick my phone in my back pocket a lot but its a flip phone so it sits deep in the pocket. Interesting, here in town seeing young local ladies with their phone sticking up out of their back pocket is pretty common.
If I put anything in a safe, thats where it would be long after I checked out. I used to own a couple of Airbnb's that had safes. The managment company hated it when I put them in because they knew from that day forward they would be answering phone calls and shipping safe contents.
Traveling outside of town its the crossbody bag because it holds everything in one location, one pocket, very little chance of screwing up. I use it for big nights out on the town here as well and for the same reason. Not because of pickpockets, just for my organizaton and peace of mind.
@MrE I too am famously forgetful. I haven't left anything in a hotel safe but I did leave the remains of a bottle of 1967 Klein Constantia Vin de Constance in a Tampa hotel mini fridge. There aren't a lot of those bottles left on earth so it was all my wife could do to not have me turn the car around when I realized it.
Yup, anything older than '86 is as rare as frogs teeth. But I get your point.
I took a Yiddish summer class in Vilnius, Lithuania, in 2007. I did not use a money belt. I was 24. I didn't travel far from home again until in July 2016 I went to London, England for 8 days. I had been persuaded to use a money belt before my trip. I used it like a substitute for a normal wallet. In 2017 to through this year except for 2020, I took a 13 to 15 night trip and some of those years another 8 to 10 night trip. I may have used a money belt on one other trip, "properly" the second time. I quit using money belts in travel from home after that second time. I use hiking pants with zippered pockets, and a day backpack. I carry my passport with me. I don't leave it in my hotel room. I lost my passport in Mexico City. Unbelievably, a teenage boy found it and his mother had it shopped it to my last hotel. Maybe I dropped it while putting it in the day backpack. Maybe the boy who "found" it stole it. Who knows whether a money belt would have helped. The staff at the Presidential Palace had to hold it while on the guided tour of the murals in the palace.
Perhaps stating the obvious, but if you are carrying anything valuable, do not fuss with it in public. Checking your pocket or getting your PP out to look at it while you are queue for a train, or standing in a buss is a way to telegraph your tactics and get picked. I put my phone/PP, wallet where I feel safe carrying them before I reach an area where I think I need to worry about them, and then it's hands off.... except for my PP.... I keep it of my front pocket and put my hand in my pocket over it.
Never hand your credit card to a waiter to carry away out of sight. If they do not have a table card reader, go with them to the cash register.
Again, do what makes you feel safe and make sure that you have saved copies of card numbers, passwords, images of your PP pages and visas, itineraries and make sure you have your phone set up to track and disable.
I would never, ever put my passport or anything of value in a back pack or day pack. Those can be unzipped without you ever knowing it. I watched someone doing this at a traffic light to a friend, until I yelled at them.
Many Europeans travelling within Europe are already familiar with the environment,
As an American, I'd love to hear from our EU folks how they travel within the EU. Especially, in the core "countries" like a French person popping over into Germany or Belgium. Or a Spaniard popping over to Portugal or France. Or an Italian heading around the coast to France or Spain. Day trips, holiday weekends, or get-aways by car across the many unsecured borders.
Do EU folks take their passports with them for all those short jaunts? As an American, I have often viewed the flexibility of the EU making jumping between "countries" as easy as Americans jumping between "states". I'd think a passport for quick trips across borders would be uncommon if done by car, bike, or walking. I'd worry that my passport would 1) get ruined way quicker than 10 years, and 2) I'd lose it as it is so cumbersome vs a smaller ID like a drivers license.
Do EU-ers really carry their passports for these sorts of short car/bike/hiking trips? I get for flights (we have the darned "star" on our US drivers licenses now for US flights), but for those trips not crossing through security zones?
And as an aside, the current Cueta & Spain migration issue with other EU countries probably makes folks reconsider carrying their passports if they are on land (vs the mentioned cruises and, of course, flights). I wonder if folks are getting caught out from that.
they have residency cards tho, too.
they have residency cards tho, too.
@skunklet1771 - sort of similar to our US drivers license - ie very durable and not horribly difficult to replace if lost?
In the US (and Europe), I don't really think about nor secure beyond my "normal" precautions for things like a DL, a CC, or a smallish amount of cash. But the more "valuable" passport gets that additional worry, since it is more fragile, a pain to replace, and the "cost" of loss can be magnitudes more than simply losing those other things.
“ Do EU folks take their passports with them for all those short jaunts?”
Of course we do. In many countries within the Schengen zone it’s mandatory to carry identification. How else can I proof my identity?
Of course we do. In many countries within the Schengen zone it’s mandatory to carry identification. How else can I proof my identity?
In the US, a drivers license covers that (or other "government issued id").
Your ONLY option is carrying your passport? Or your "best" option? Of your preferred option?"
The only thing a drivers license proofs is that I once passed my drivers test. Some places except it as a form of ID, but technically it isn’t. Yes, it has my name on it and my date of birth, but the most crucial thing is not on it; my nationality.
The venerable fanny pack solves all of these problems for me. I'm at an age where I just don't care any more, fashion faux pas or not, I just own it.
I am on a trip right now where there is always a small chance that I may not be able to get back to my hotel room when I want to. Maybe for a rather long period of time. I prefer to have more than a passport in a neck pouch.
So, it takes a small cross body bag that is never removed when outside my room. In it:
Then to minimize the need to open the crossbody bag:
I think a European traveller could find many useful things in an RS book. However, the overall tone is jarring for people who have travelled to other parts of Europe regularly since they were babes in arms and don’t see it as being much of a big deal. I’m thinking about the scam warnings, money belts and that kind of thing...
Pickpocketing and street scams are more prevalent in Europe than here so good for Rick to inform his readers about them. For a first-time traveler, this is very useful information.
Well, look at that, almost 70 posts and the answer is still the same, which is apparently do whatever you like 😀 I hope somebody is keeping track of how long it take before this question is asked again. And the answer will be the same 😀
Of course we do. In many countries within the Schengen zone it’s mandatory to carry identification. How else can I proof my identity?
"In the US, a drivers license covers that (or other "government issued id").
Your ONLY option is carrying your passport? Or your "best" option? Of your preferred option?"
In the US, a DL may suffice as government issued ID, but only if it is issued by a US state. And it does not suffice as proof of nationality. Your federal "police" have had a field day throwing people into detention who had a DL but were not also carrying a permanent resident card or passport to prove they were there legally. So if a US DL isn't sufficient proof even in the US, why would it be sufficient in any other country?
Now if anyone wants to gamble on the security of their passport and other documents, plus their bank and credit cards, then feel free to ditch the deep storage methods. When I'm thousands of miles from my bank, and perhaps not even in the same country as my nearest embassy or consulate, I choose not to gamble. But you do you.
Well, look at that, almost 70 posts and the answer is still the same, which is apparently do whatever you like 😀 I hope somebody is keeping track of how long it take before this question is asked again. And the answer will be the same 😀
That was never the question. But thanks for taking the time to weigh in.
I think this thread has been quite useful. I've certainly absorbed some of the thoughts of those more cautious than I. I've never really been one for spending much time around the big tourist attractions that may have a concentration of n'er do wells. I've been using public transport all my life so it's never seemed like a great risk situation to me.
I'd consider a buying cross-body bag now after reading about their usefulness here. They came to prominence in the UK a decade or so ago with young guys selling weed, and that has put me off, but they have some utility to the tourist too.
I was also interested in how many insist on carrying their passports around all the time. That's something I've never done. I haven't made up my mind on that, taking in what people have said on this thread. I never carry any form of ID here. It's not law that you have to. I might still take my chances going with no ID if I were in Italy, Spain, France or The Netherlands, even though I know it is law in at least some of those countries. Maybe that's my white privilege showing.
I am going to agree with GerryM ( 😬 ) it was a good discussion and food for thought.
I certainly don't consider London a big risk for pickpocketing. I live here of course. There's no risk on the buses here (that I can perceive) and minimal risk on the tube. I think maybe public transport in other European capitals may need a little more care. Rome, Paris, I'm looking at you. That's not personal experience, just what I've read. I'd still consider stuff hidden under my clothes overkill even in those places.
We have always used security pockets,money belts, or some safe means of carrying our larger money stash,passports,credit cards, etc. In 2001 my husband who is 6feet 4 was targeted by an obvious pickpocket group of two. Luckily I was behind them and since I speak Spanish and we were in Madrid, I was able to interrupt their attempt. In Nurnberg, last year, I found a mans hand in my purse at the train station. He got nothing but my elbow and he ran off laughing. I don't walk around Atlanta with my valuables unprotected. Why would I in Europe?
I've used a messenger bag both here in London and abroad for a long time. I have one made by Dickies which has served me for the best part of 25 years. Gave it a wash in the machine recently and it's revitalised.
I think if you're conscious of security the messenger bag is a good design. Having access only by the big flap on the top means nobody can open it once it's clipped shut.
A friend of mine owns a bag by Timbuk2 which he bought in San Francisco years ago. I'm not sure they're still made in SF but the same bag is still in production. Here's a link -
https://www.timbuk2.com/collections/all-messenger-bags/products/2023-classic-messenger-bag
Other options I found while looking for Timbuk2 bags -
https://www.sfbags.com/collections/shoulder-messenger-bags
https://missionworkshop.com/collections/messenger-bags
https://www.rickshawbags.com/bags/messenger-bags
Backpack-wise I own an old Jansport, which is a classic piece of design that never goes out of style or runs out of practicality, and a Fjallraven Kanken, which is a good light-duty backpack for town.
https://jansport.co.uk/collections/superbreak/products/superbreak-plus-black
https://www.fjallraven.com/uk/en-gb/bags-gear/kanken/kanken-bags/
For those who want to carry an ID showing nationality, what about a Global Entry card rather than your passport (which can be securely stored in your hotel room)?
And of course, those of us like Mr. E and me who look like Jason Bourne don't have to worry about money belts.
An individual I follow on you tube just reported that two of her fellow passengers who were due to embark on a cruise with her today will not be going as their passports were stolen the previous night while at dinner in the UK. Details were sketchy, but it sounded as if they were in a backpack and taken from them while dining.
BigMike,
Depending on the fanny pack, many can be used and look decent like a cross body...then it's not a fashion faux pas!
I used to leave my passport at the hotel but ever since I missed seeing the Reichstag building in Berlin because I didn't have it with me, I now carry it. Yeah, I know, when we registered to visit it probably said to bring an official ID/passport, my bad. Fortunately, I had seen it before, but my husband hadn't so I told him to go ahead and I just hung out on Platz der Republik.
A passport is more than a photo ID. It can prove you're in the country legally, and not, you know, an illegal immigrant. Americans shouldn't expect special treatment. That's a different scenario from a museum or other venue that just wants to see an ID just to confirm a name.
I dont think original level-headed sources (like RS) make too much of this low-probability, high consequence event. It's when a word to the wise gets amplified and passed on by third-parties that verbs and modifiers get changed to be more of a dire warning.* But it comes up because most Americans (RS' target audience) dont think about pickpockets in their daily lives. Armed muggers are more of a threat here. And since many Americans treat Europe as a theme park, they just aren't prepared for organized and skilled thievery.
Go to any public event or space in the US, and you'll see most people carrying their valuables in bulging back pockets or loosely in their hands.
* just like foreign visitors to the US are expecting gun violence everywhere. Its human nature to focus on fear.
"Details were sketchy, but it sounded as if they were in a backpack and taken from them while dining."
So ironically if they'd left them at the hotel (and you don't have to carry ID in the UK), they'd be fine... I suppose equally it could have been solved by having kept them securely on their person.
Just the other day I watched a video of Rick Steves himself showing us what he packs in his carryon backpack (it was a packing light video). I was surprised to see that he uses that ‘secret zipper pouch’ that comes with his bags to store his passport, extra cash, and credit cards inside his carryon. I always thought he used a money belt for that stuff!!
I'm so absent minded. Once a year I forget to pick up my carryon in an airport or hotel or bus. Because of my short comings I can't leave anything of value in something that isn't attached to me. Its not about the theives ... I usually avoid those places. Its about me. I suspect if Rick forgets his bag one of his crew will get it. I travel semi-solo.
My guess is that the money belt suggestions hark back to the days when the crossbody bag wasn't available or prominent. Back in the 70's I don't think I ever heard of a crossbody bag. Money belts were around then however. I do remember my first trip to Europe in 1974 (no money belt for me then) and being surprised to see men carrying purses (albeit small ones). How the times have changed!
Even then women didn't wear pants as often as now. Dresses and skirts were more de rigueur. And to not wear hose of some sort with a skirt or dress was the exception, even in more liberated Europe (and almost never in the states)! We always carried a purse. Thank goodness for progress. It was nice to say goodbye to pantyhose, and, 10-20 years earlier, to hats and gloves and garter belts. Common sense and comfort are so much more pleasant than fashion dictates. Yay!
(P.S. My first trip as an adult without parents was a weekend in San Francisco with a girlfriend in 1965. We flew to SF and took hats, heels and gloves with us to wear on our "uptown" sightseeing, even shopping at the famous Emporium. We were just 21 and thought we were so sophisticated, staying at the Sheraton Palace..in their cheapest room.. and taking a night club tour to The Purple Onion and Finocchios and The Hungry I. Ah! Innocence! Ah! Good times!)
P.S. Sorry for the above digression.
As an American, I'd love to hear from our EU folks how they travel within the EU. Especially, in the core "countries" like a French person popping over into Germany or Belgium. Or a Spaniard popping over to Portugal or France. Or an Italian heading around the coast to France or Spain. Day trips, holiday weekends, or get-aways by car across the many unsecured borders.
This thread is so nostalgic for me, as it's such a perpetual discussion on here. My take was and is still at odds with many here, but as an American who lived in Europe over over a decade, we only tried money belts precisely once, my husband hated it, it was hot, and he refused to use it again and I certainly wasn't going to. We also don't bother with hotel safes. We leave our passport in a specific small compartment in one of our bags in our rooms when traveling. We did always travel with them, of course, even though we weren't always asked to show them, even when flying (our military ID cards were often sufficient and more easily replaceable).
Ironically, the one time after the moneybelt incident, based on the advice from this forum, I did decide to keep our passports on my person, in cross-body messenger bag with a narrow compartment that fit them well. And that was the one time our passports were presumably stolen - I never saw them again. I did not notice them being stolen, which seems impossible, but they were gone. After that, I always left them in a bag in our hotel room. I really think cases of hotel room thievery are far more unlikely than people think. It's a possibility, yes but all travel comes with risks, and this seems like the smaller one to me.
One thing I used to say on here was that as an American living abroad, I was subject to the same concept that I always had to have proof on me that I was legal to be in the country, but in 13 years, including traveling very frequently, the only time I was asked for a passport was at the airport or one very rarely on a train at a border crossing.
I personally think it's riskier to have it on your person unless it's in a hidden money belt or neck wallet, and I refuse to travel with those. I have multiple methods of payment in multiple places. Even if someone stole my purse, I'd have another card back at my hotel to pay with, etc.
If you're willing to wear a bit of underclothing to secure your passport, that is safe and I understand why even though I find it unnecessary. I would not travel with my passport and all my cards in any sort of bag, that's much more likely the way things get stolen as opposed to leaving it secure in your hotel with our without a safe (again, never used those).
"Core Country" ? As opposed to ... what?
A French EU citizens concerns when traveling to EU Germany have very little to do with a US citzens concerns in any country in Europe. Distance, cost, support network, border crossings, banks, support groups, legal advice ...absolutely nothing is similar so ways of dealing with it will not be similar. But I guess as an academic question... you can never ask too many questions and we have quite a few Europeans on the forum. Maybe some unexpected gem is hiding. Lifecworks tgat way.
The only thing a drivers license proofs is that I once passed my drivers test. Some places except it as a form of ID, but technically it isn’t
In the US, driver’s licenses are official, government issued forms of ID and are widely accepted as such. Mine has never been refused as identification, and I’ve never heard of anyone whose driver’s license was refused.
“ In the US, driver’s licenses are official, government issued forms of ID and are widely accepted as such. Mine has never been refused as identification, and I’ve never heard of anyone whose driver’s license was refused.”
Marco; My response, which you’ve only partially quoted without the most important part, was in reply to Tom R who wanted to know what Europeans do when they travel to another country in Europe.
I replied that I need to bring my passport because an EU-drivers license doesn’t contain nationality. If I need to prove to an police officer in France, Italy or Greece that I’m not an illegal alien, I need to have something with my nationality on it, hence why I bring my passport.
If US drivers licenses do contain your nationality, it makes sense that you can use them as official identification. I must admit though that I’ve never heard of anyone being able to enter the Schengen Zone from the US with only a US drivers license as proof of identification.
I quoted the part that I objected to. I agree a driver’s license doesn’t prove citizenship, but that’s a separate matter. They are official, government issued forms of ID and are widely accepted.
No it isn’t a separate matter. It was the whole point of the question I responded to. Tom R wanted to know what Europeans do when they travel to other countries within the EU. In that context I replied that my drivers license is no good there, because it doesn’t show my nationality.
Had Tom R asked me which proof of identification I use within the Netherlands to proof my identity, I would have answered my drivers license. I for instance use my drivers license to identify myself when I go to the blood bank to donate. Or when I have a business meeting at the office of a company that requires all visitors to identify and register themselves. But again, that wasn’t the point of the question I replied to.
Well, I decided not to read all 91 replies to this, but I just want to say that I haven't used a money belt since my very first trip to Europe back in 1996. And during that trip, the money belt fell off and I lost it, including all my traveler's checks, passport, money, and credit cards. It all worked out, and eventually I got it back when a student found it and turned it into the police, but that was after I got back home.
Since then, I've decided that they're not worth the risk, so I use a crossbody bag that is very secure to carry day-to-day essentials. I leave my passport and at least several credit cards and other important documents in a safe place in the hotel. It's worked for me for the last 30+ years.
Darn, I do not have a drivers license, not an American one or a German one. I do carry my ID card with me though. You never know when you might be asked. In the past 2 years, I have had to show ID to the cops. Once, because I had witnessed a fight at a train station, 2nd time was more fun. Was leading a tour in the old Jewish Quarter of Frankfurt when 2 cops came up and asked me for ID. I showed it to them and asked them why. They were looking for a woman in a grey coat. I had on a grey coat. I laughed and asked if their suspect was also 70 years old and walking around with a tour group. My tour was amused too and we all laughed and the cops did too.
IF US drivers licenses do contain your nationality, ....
They dont. Well some do. But not all. They arent issued by the US, they are issued by the states. The cop in France is expecting to see a US passport. As a guest, show him some respect and show him a US passport. Why make his job harder even if you are a privileged American.
Mr E...D'accord.
The concept of carrying my passport around with me every day, risking its loss, as a means of showing respect to the local police is not intuitive to me.
My passport is always readily available to me in the same city I occupy. And I have a photo of it, and my long-stay visa, on my phone. I will report back if and when this approach presents any problems.
Judy, I admit that I am an outdated relic. The concept of picking and choosing, for convenience then rationalizing based on privilege... I can’t wrap my head around it.
Given the choice of wearing the neck pouch along with the hidden pocket or not, I choose to have both items on me. That's all.
I carry cash, at least 700 Euro if not much more and the 4 credit cards, no Apple Pay, debit card, or any of the choice of payment options. Basically, I use the credit cards or resort to cash, above all in Germany. I have no problems carrying cash provided the 2 items above are on me.
I think Americans are indeed obvious marks for a variety of reasons based on my observations. Am I among them, most likely so, but then so what? Am I concerned about about being picked? Not beyond taking these 2 simple security measures , otherwise I am not interested let alone being excessive concerned. as it is not going to happen. The bad guys may try (I'm an obvious "target") but will they get anything bottom line ? Never have suffered a loss, it'll stay that way.
