Hi all.
One thing I've noticed from visiting various online forums and meeting Europeans in person in the US is that they tend to lump Canadians in with Americans and call us all Americans. Is this common IN Europe as well?
I married a Canadian and some German neighbors of ours keep forgetting he's from Canada and not the US. They said it's because Canada really isn't "discussed" in Europe but news of the US is all over the place.
Needless to say, hubby was NOT amused. :-(
I got news for your hubby. Canada isn't really "discussed" here in the US either. It's a nice, big, comforting and polite neighbor that we rarely think about (or, aboot.) Sorry, Canadian posters, but it's true.
Yup, it can happen. Just like it can happen that Americans and Canadians lump Austrians and Germans together ... or call them Australians ...
And did you know Mexico runs all the way down to South America? And why does a Scotsman get so mad when you call him English? It's close enough.
Sort of like posters who ask what the weather is like in Europe, forgetting that it is a huge continent with many different weather zones and many different coutries. Or asking about European culture as though every country here was just the same as the next one. Vast differences between Norway and Portugal, or Scotland and Greece.
People from the Northern Hemisphere tend to confuse Aussies and New Zealanders. Trouble is, our flags are almost identical, but not our accents!!
I am very aware about the Welsh and the Scots being very 'thingy' about being called English. Both countries, especially Scotland, has been lobbying for many years to break away from the blanket banner of Britain/UK.
interesting discussion.
Last October I took my first trip to Europe as part of a RS tour. I was the lone Canadian in a group of 28. I was determined not to be lumped into the "ugly American" category - a sterotype I had bought into. I was so pleased, and perhaps a little surprised to find that each and every American in the group was intelligent, well-read, thoughtful, polite, kind, accepting, cheerful, interested and interesting. My American tour mates represented all four corners of the contiguous 48 states and a couple of central states as well. After our first dinner together I wouldn't have minded one bit if I had been mistaken for an American. If only those wonderful ladies from Texs had come with a Texas-Canadian phrase book!
Oh, and Brad - those matching tracksuits are probably from the 1994 Commonwealth Games, hosted by the city of Victoria and issued to the volunteers. Purple, teal blue and yellow never looked so good together, right?!
I have never lumped Americans and Canadians together, but I do struggle with telling the difference between the accents. I have got into trouble before because I have mistaken a Canadian accent for an American one!
I have never had a problem with Aussie and NZ accents though. When I was in America most people seemed to think my accent was Australian so maybe that's why I have a good ear for the accent!
Trying to recognize a person's origins from their accent is a real mine-field. I've learned not to guess, but just to ask, "Where are you from?" That seems to be less offensive than saying "are you from England, Scotland, NZ?" Not all Canadians or Americans have the same accent. I suppose it is best just to state: "I'm from......." I usually don't do this and assume others, hearing my accent, will know I am American. In Ireland once, people there mistook my accent for German. I thought that was pretty funny.
Canadians and Americans do look a lot alike, however.
Just like we often lump Europeans together, Europeans consider Canadians and Americans "Americans" it doesn't bother me, they've got a 10-1 shot of being correct.
Playing devils advocate...Isn't it okay to lump Europeans together? After all most all of Western Europe formed/joined the EU; a political union of 27 member states. Just like the USA is a political union of 50 member states, and Canada is a political union of 10 provinces. Citizens of the 50 states don't seem to have a problem being lumped together as "Americans", even though we're physically bigger than the EU.
Michael,
US states have a 50-230 year history. European countries have a history that goes back more than a millenia. Corners of Europe were settled by people of a similar history while states in the US were, even from the beginning, settled by a mish-mash of immigrants from all over. So no, it's really not the same thing at all.
But since you were playing devil's advocate, I trust you realized that already.
Except for maybe 10% or so of the US population who gains some identity "team-like" charge out of calling themselves Nebraskans or Oregonians or whatever, the rest of us would be perfectly happy and our lives would not change one iota if the US state borders were erased completely. But that's a discussion for a place very different than this...
Michael Schneider - I suppose those citizens of all those American states do watch the same TV, have the same national language, same president etc. The EU may all be one lump, but we do have different languages, different attitudes to political and religious beliefs, different cultures etc.
During the Bush years, it was common practice to tell US friends leaving for Europe; "Remember, tell everyone you are Canadian."
Randy - I don't see any change or any improvment under Obama - I'll still be travelling as a Canadian.TMSAISWI.
but we do have different languages, different attitudes to political and religious beliefs, different cultures
True, but that's also true of different regions of the US; except for the language part.
Playing devils advocate again, if New York state were an independent country it would rank as the 16th largest economy in the world; similar things could be said about California, and Florida. Yet, the citizen of these state don't go out of their way not be identified as Americans.
Something else to ponder: Citizens of the EU are freely allowed to migrate among different EU states to live and work (just like Americans:)). Fast forward 250 years, will Western Europe become more "homogenized".... similar to the US?
I always spot Canadian couples by their matching warm up suits. Maybe that's only British Columbians? :)
We were asked if we were Canadians when we were in Ireland.
Unfortunately for us, it happened in front of our friends and now we are consistently refereed to as 'them Canadians' whenever we visit Donegal.
"...Fast forward 250 years, will Western Europe become..."
Yes. But in 250 years many, MANY things will be so different as to be unrecognizable to our imaginations today. Some regrettable loss of national identity will be the least of the changes.
I was wondering if we are called Americans because we are from America=North America??
Pauline...I doubt it. Otherwise, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Costa Ricans, Panamanians, Nicaraguans, Bolivians, Colombians, Peruvians, Argetinians, Brazilians, etc...would also be called "Americans."
"US states have a 50-230 year history."
I don't agree with this. While "joining the union" is considered an important date in the life of a state, I don't think it determines how long the history of that state is.
Are you really saying that Hawaii and Alaska are only 50 years old? What about all the history in those states before they received statehood? Using your line of reasoning, Ireland is less than 100 years old since it only received independence in the 1920's.
I sometimes don't understand us Americans. We date everything American by its "birthdate" or "date of creation" and claim that it's "young" whereas the Europeans seem to date everything European by when humans first set foot on it. Very different ways of determining history.
Kathleen,
Are Alaska and Hawaii only 50 years old? No. Has the current character of Alaska and Hawaii been shaped largely in the last 50 years? Yes. (the leis and hula dancing are mostly for tourists)
Has the current character of Spain, Greece, England, Sweden, or Italy been shaped largely in the last 50 years? No. Of course, each of those countries, along with every other country on earth for that matter, has changed a great deal in the last 50 years as life has become more modern, but the sense of identity and traditions of it's people? No.
Europeans may have a more finely honed sense of history than Americans, but they don't dwell obsessively with who first set foot on a patch of land. That's largely irrelevant. Groups of people moved from place to place and made war with greater or lesser success since the beginning of human kind. What matters is how long the current culture has resided on a patch of land we have somewhat arbitrarily defined as a "country". In most cases, that history is quite long in Europe and quite short by comparison here.
Singing the praises of who was in North America before European settlers took over is about as relevant as telling Hungarians (who have been there for 1100+ years) not to forget all the layers of human-kind who were there first. They would consider that foolish.
I stand by my previous statement.
Randy's right on this subject. Most of us in North America know approximately when and where our ancestors settled here. Many of us know where the "homeplace" is. This feeling of having settled the US and Canada lives large in our collective consciousness and mythology. In that respect our two countries are very similar in outlook, and it's no wonder Europeans group us together.
Canada and America are a country couple similar to Ireland and the UK or Austria and Germany: culturally very similar, because they're neighbors speaking the same language. So similar in fact that many outsiders tend to lump them together. Which annoys the smaller partner to no end...
@Norm: in German for example "Amerikaner" can both mean "American" and "inhabitant of the Americanas." Most of the time this ambiguity is solved though the context, but essentially Mexicans, Brazilians, etc. are "Amerikaner" the same way Italians, Swedes, etc. are "Europäer" (Europeans)...
'but they don't dwell obsessively with who first set foot on a patch of land. That's largely irrelevant.'
I tend to disagree with this statement having been to Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, the Basque Region and to Catalan there seems to be a bit of debate on who's entitled to what. I think the Italians also have some heated debates based on regions.
A few years back I worked in an office with a Canadian. I remarked that she didn't have a hint of an accent and that she didn't end every sentence with “eh”. She said she tried very hard to sound more American. I asked how does one sound more American? She said I replaced ”eh” with “huh” and no one knew she was Canadian.
That said, I live in the Detroit area just north of the Canadian border. I would have to say culturally I have more in common with someone from Canada than other states. I prefer hockey to NASCAR. Love the TV show Kids in The Hall. I like gravy on my fries. I kinda understand the metric system. I know Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister. Canada has numerous political parties that are members of it's parliament. I'm a fan of Rush, Cowboy Junkies and The Guess Who. Must be a Northern Thing huh/eh?
I've been called "American" as in a "North American." Doesn't bother me. But remember - a Canadian accent includes everything from Vancouver to Whitehorse to Toronto to St. John's (Newfoundland). And trust me - we all sound a bit different! It's kind of like saying someone has an "American" accent whether they're from LA or South Carolina or New Jersey..... Interesting topic.
I would not say it is annoying to be mistaken for an American more amusing than anything. I have never been offended by it.
We Canadians tend to overstate the differences between us and Americans but really the differences are quite small depending on where in America people are from. We are very similar to Americans living in the northern states but quite different from people from the south.
I think there is a bigger difference betwen eastern and western Canadians culturally than we let on. In many ways bigger than with Americans.
You may have a very valid point, Troy. Accents and "cultural aspects" of western states near us seem much like ours whereas the differences between the West and Eastern Canada can be very different! For example, I've lived in B.C. all my life and have never had poutine (gulp) and who says" aboot"? Maybe the same group who pronounce "tour" to rhyme with roar! ;-)
Funny story....there's a guy who works behind the ticket window at the Euston tube station in London, he's worked there so long he's able figure out most every American/Canadian's regional accent. He's outgoing and likes to talk it up to all the tourists. Within 30 seconds of talking to me he was able to determine that not a only did I have a New York accent, but more specifically an upstate NY accent! And no I wasn't wearing any clothing that identified where I lived:)
About East/West differences - we walked into a cafe after a concert in Vienna and discovered the two adjacent tables also had Canadians, one couple from Victoria BC and the other from Toronto, ON. After talking a while, the fellow from Victoria turned to the couple from Toronto and said, "Of course, you realize, if we met you in Canada, we would not even talk to you!" Such is the difference, not to mention, sometimes, the animosity.
"Has the current character of Spain, Greece, England, Sweden, or Italy been shaped largely in the last 50 years? No."
I disagree Randy. In the last 50 years those countries characters and identities HAVE been largely changed by the EU and, more importantly, multiculturalism due to huge numbers of immigrants. A lot of European countries are becoming melting pots like the US, Canada, Australia, etc. These immigrants are definitely helping to change traditions, identities, characters, etc. Did you know that the UK came out with a citizenship test similar to the one we have in the US in the hopes that it would develop a sense of "Britishness" in newcomers? Check the BBC website for more on this.
Tea was typically seen as an important part of British culture and yet more people are now preferring coffee over tea. Tea time has changed!
Look at how North Africans have changed the makeup and character of France, Italy and Spain. Look at how Indians and Pakistanis have changed the makeup of the UK. Islam is quickly taking over as the predominant religion in quite a few parts of Europe. Muslims in Europe continue to have large families while the birthrate of most of "white Europe" has fallen. This phenomenon will definitely alter the "centuries old" characters and identities of Europe. Europe is no longer a "France for the French, Italy for the Italians, Germany for the Germans, etc." type of place. This is a good thing, not bad.
And I don't see how "singing the praises of who was in North America before European settlers took over" is irrelevant. Lots of Americans have Native ancestry. This should definitely be counted in our national character and identity. Not everyone in the US is descended solely from Europeans (I should know, I'm one of them). Some aren't even descended from Europeans at all. What of them? It seems that Europeans look at all who helped shape their characters and identities; whereas white Americans just look at Europeans. :-(
To Karen: But what of Americans who don't know the "homeplace" or just don't care about it?
I know many more non-hyphenated Americans than I do hyphenated ones.
Kathleen-perhaps it's a Midwestern term. "Homeplace" refers to where a family originally settled here in the US. For example, my father's homeplace was a farmhouse outside a small town in mid-Illinois. That's where his grandparents broke the prairie and created a life for themselves. He never lived there but it was always the homeplace.
Here in the UK, a few years ago, I got thoroughly chewed out by an irate fellow after I asked if he was from North America. Once he'd finished his tirade (and it was a tirade!) about how everyone heard his accent and assumed he was American, while he was in fact Canadian, I reminded him that I had specifically said 'North' American.
The irony was that I am in fact Canadian myself (I have dual citizenship).
Hi Karen.
Ahhh, now I get it. I thought Homeplace was the same as Mother Country.
Hmmm, and I have relatives in the Midwest. Maybe I don't pay enough attention when they talk. :-)
Since the "looks" and the accent (unless a Canadian is from the French part of Canada) are the same as Americans' that's why I think it is "confussing".
Most of Europeans wouldn't make a difference in one's accents, not just Americas' accents, all of them.
My EUR.02
What's the weather like in Wales?
On a trip to Panama I was informed by the locals that they are Americans, and I was a North American! (from the States)
Neil, It's lovely
Hopefully you get recognized as canadians by the British!
:0)
Elaine,, I was in Paris when Obama was elected, and let me tell you they LOVED it.. they did not like Bush. Be American and proud of it,, you may not like your president,, but trust me, the Europeons like him alot better then that other guy.
Last time we were in Jasper, we were chatting with the owner of one of the stores. She decided to tell us a joke. "What is the difference between an American and a Canadian?" Answer: "A Canadian is an unarmed American with excellent health care."
I was told that Canadians are more polite but also swear a lot more than Americans! Don't know if anyone else has heard that one?
I think that's an old Kids in the Hall joke:)
I can usually spot Canadian accents--no, it isn't really the "eh" and the "aboot" but the subtler vowel tones. But I often miss with Wisconsiners and Minnesotans--they sound Canadian to me!
Incidentally, I recently flew to Asia via Vancouver and was amused on the way back when I obediently followed the signs to International Transfers, only to be told that the US wasn't considered international!
The last time we were in Italy a local asked us if we were German! We weren't real sure what to make of that.
Homeplace? I’ve lived in different parts of the Midwest my entire life and have never heard the term. It’s certainly not from the heart of the Midwest.
Okay do I have one Yankee/ Canook mistaken identity story. While touring Versailles I was nearly smack in the middle of a fist fight. The best we could figure there was a French tour guide giving a English tour and some guy was squatting in on it without paying. Well things got heated fast! And then the bomb dropped ..... "You must be American because you are stooopid!". Oh no he didn't!!! :)
well it all calmed down my husband said the squatter was Canadian - very distinct accent.
Ah well you win some, you lose some. I am just glad I didn't get punched as a bystander!! We had a good laugh!
And I agree WI and MN sound a LOT like Canadians, ya know! Er no?
It's really funny how some people get offended by being mistaken for coming from another country. Maybe they feel it is part of their identity. If someone feels good about themself as a person, it should not matter if someone gets it wrong. There's nothing wrong with a gentle correction. On the other hand it's OK to be proud to be from a certain place if a person is really in touch with their heritage and old customs. A large percentage of folks are not, so there's no reason to get peeved. More often then not, folks from different countries marry. Unfortunately as the world population becomes globalized, the more the same we all will be. Which is a shame, since the differences add spice. It's the spice that keeps me traveling every year and why I myself married someone from another country...a Czech. Folks ask me all the time where I'm from and are sometimes surprised that I'm from the USA. But that's what happens when you have one foot in the USA and one foot in Europe.
My husband and I are from the same country - Texas.
