Measles in the US and Europe

I believe that the measles situation in the US is dramatically worse than many places due to political pressure to not vaccinate. While the false rumours have made their way over here too, and there is now more illness, it is much more contained.

It is probably more dangerous to travel around the US.

I saw a news show the other day that said that US had declared measles eradicated in the US many years ago, but it is now higher than any time in history - so many people believed the false rumours. Sad.

Measles is a non-issue for people who have followed the recommended immunization schedule. It's children too young to have received both immunizations and people with compromised immune systems who are at risk, and of course children with parents too stupid to have them immunized.(I try to be careful about labeling people as stupid, but this situation qualifies.) The journal Lancet(edited: thanks Nick) failure to adequately vet Wakefield's article before publishing it has endangered many people who don't know about, or who refuse to believe, the journal's later retraction.

And Nigel, is most states, there is political pressure TO vaccinate. They're called laws. However, certain states allow people to not vaccinate because of "philosophical reasons". For the record, I don't think anyone(except those with medical reasons) should be allowed to enroll in public schools without the proper vaccines. The right to not vaccinate your children should also include the requirement to home school them-I bet that kind of law would put a stop to some of this anti-vaxxer nonsense. Edited: thanks Diane, in the developed world, I think it's certain states in the US that are the ones having the greatest struggles with measles outbreaks.

Wakefield's fraudulent "study" was published in The Lancet, not Nature.

However, certain states allow people to not vaccinate because of "philosophical reasons".

Do those philosophical reasons also include the concept of a flat Earth?

“And Diane, it's not so much countries that should be avoided as it is states.`

Let’s be clear, I didn’t say countries should be avoided.

As a traveler, a vaccinated adult, or someone who has had Measles, really has nothing to worry about. There has been some discussion that those vaccinated many years ago may not have the immunity they once did, so I think it is prudent to discuss with your Doctor, as well as making sure your Tetanus shot is up to date.

I am not a medical person, so can't go one way or the other on testing vs re-immunizing.

Thanks Nick. Yes, that's even worse since Lancet is the UK's medical journal.

I believe that the measles situation in the US is dramatically worse than many places due to political pressure to not vaccinate.

I was reading this article in the NYT today and was surprised to see that France and Italy both had more than 2000 cases last year and Britain had more than 900. Unfortunately, this is not a U.S. only problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/health/adults-measles-vaccination.html

Laura, thanks for your post. You are correct! I was trying to avoid it being a your country our country discussion rather than to just remind travelers to think measles as a travel issue given the current outbreaks globally.
I am well aware of how the US fits in as my work in Public Health forced me to deal with past outbreaks of Measles and other diseases that are often contracted by travel.

This anti-science stuff has me pulling my hair out, and it's not like I have much to work with.

If you're not vaccinated, then get one. This should be easily accessible through your medical records.

BTW, thank you Edward Jenner.

JC: Good one.

My DH and I were pre-vaccine kids. I had measles as a child, but he didn't. Our family pharmacist (really; he's our nephew) was surprised when DH asked if he thought we should get vaccinated before our upcoming trip to France, but after doing some research said it would be a good idea. Our Medicare Advantage plan doesn't cover it, but most County Health Departments should. Or self-pay is about $40.

and then there is the Scientology cruise ship which has been forced into quarantine today because of measles on board.

A doctor (head of the California CDC) was interviewed on NPR yesterday, she said anyone born before 1963 should get vaccinated - even if you were before ‘63.

Here is the official CDC recommendation.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/travelers.html

it says people born before 1957 have "presumptive evidence" of immunity to measles.

The issue varies from country to country.

Israel is a hotspot of unvaccinated people. This is amazing, since Jews have been scientists, physicians, teachers for hundreds of years, and yet the Hasidim are a group who have many anti-vax. There is some insane idea that vaccines are not Kosher. That is false.

Other countries which have been noted are Ukraine and Phillipines.

In the US, specific places in CA (Marin Ct) and NY (NYC) are hotbeds too. In Marin Ct, CA, it is the "crunchy granola" moms. In NY, it is the Hasidim.

When I had the measles it was no big deal. We had them, we got over them. It wasn't uncommon for parents to take their kids to measles parties (more like today's play dates) so their kids could get them out of the way.

It's nice there's a vaccine but it seems to be a little over the top to consider it life or death whether a parent chooses to have their kids vaccinated. It's a true statement that vaccines are preserved with mercury. People eat organic food to avoid putting things in their body, it's their choice, this isn't different.

Years ago I talked to the head of our county health department. As you would expect, she's a big proponent of vaccines. She said parents who are concerned should spread out the vaccines and ask for single vial doses because those don't contain the preservative.

emma, you are exactly right. And it IS selfish. Supremely selfish.
My son was born with severe heart defects, a common cold could have killed him up until he was 6 yrs old.
People that do not vaccinate are risking the lives of others.

As to Lola’s post and the official recommendation... the doctor (head of the California CDC) on NPR yesterday said anyone born before ‘63 should get re-vaccinated... although the vaccine existed from ‘57 to ‘63, it was not as good as the vaccine introduced in ‘63.

political pressure to not vaccinate

Its social, not political.

It is probably more dangerous to travel around the US.

Apparently a highly inaccurate statement Nigel.

And, Maybe we will get more converts for immunization if we are a tad bit less snide about people's beliefs, even if we feel them misguided.

"It's nice there's a vaccine but it seems to be a little over the top to consider it life or death whether a parent chooses to have their kids vaccinated" - Brad, Belmont Bay, VA.

According to WHO, there were over 100,000 deaths from measles in 2017, mostly children under five. Of course, most of them weren't Americans so perhaps you don't think it's any "big deal".

And Emma is absolutely right. No British parent in the past, at least at the time when we were parents, would have refused a vaccination for their child if it was available because we knew how bad measles could be, from seeing its effects on our siblings or cousins. We didn't want that to happen to our own children. Those who refuse MMR now are morons who've lost that knowledge.

When I had the measles it was no big deal. We had them, we got over them. It wasn't uncommon for parents to take their kids to measles parties (more like today's play dates) so their kids could get them out of the way.

That is a terrible generalization that perpetuates the myth that measles are harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are strains of measles that are easy for many healthy individuals to 'get over'. But that does not make it harmless. Countless individuals, mostly children, were blinded or suffered heart disease due to childhood measles. Why do you suppose so much research and money was dedicated to finding a vaccine to prevent the disease.

That statement above was the same thing that was said about chicken pox. Now we know that the effects of childhood chicken pox can remain in the system and present itself as shingles, a painful condition, later in life.

To say that any communicable disease is 'no big deal' is ludicrous.

And, by the way, I highly doubt that last sentence about the so-called measles parties. That is positively insane for a parent to deliberately expose their child to a potentially harmful disease.

BRAD!!

Please do some research before you put out a statement that vaccines have Mercury in them. Only SOME flu vaccines do. The MMR does not!
Also, it is a big deal to those who have lost a loved one from Measles. Measles parties were in a day of no vaccines and a bit misguided to say the least!

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/downloads/vacsafe-thimerosal-color-office.pdf

anyone born before ‘63 should get re-vaccinated

Not my area of expertise (at all) but I suspect anyone born before
1963 has had measles and is therefore immune.

Actually the first statement is correct, they recommend anyone born before 1963 to get re-vaccinated. Anyone born before 1957 is deemed to have natural immunity because they either had the measles or were exposed to them. So I guess it's those born between 1957 and 1963 that should re-vaccinate or get the blood test to determine immunity.

In the 1960's, before there was a measles shot, my mother was scared enough of the disease to get us gamma globulin shots in hopes of making the disease milder. I got measles, my younger sister didn't and my mother had her vaccinated as soon as the measles vaccine became available. Clearly someone who had always lived when measles occurred did not see it as "no big deal."

Here’s what Charlie and the Chocolate Factory author, Roald Dahl, had to say about it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/allthemoms/2019/02/08/washington-measles-outbreak-why-roald-dahl-urged-parents-vaccinate/2810571002/

Measles can weaken the immune system for up to 3 years, making you more susceptible to other illnesses.
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2015/05/07/deadly-shadow-measles-may-weaken-immune-system-three-years

I was born before 1960. I never had measles, probably was exposed to them, did have a vaccination, probably going to get re-vaccinated. Unfortunately, the blood test was inconclusive as to if I am immune.

Several neighbor children had measles when I was growing up. It was not something to get and get over, at least not the type they have the vaccination for. These people were sick, deathly sick, scary sick. I remember the gamma globulin injections well. There was a stampede to get vaccinated as soon as it was possible. But I guess if you didn't live during this time, you can't know how bad it was. And no, it wasn't government propaganda that made everyone want the vaccination.

While I am completely aware that every injection no matter how safe can have severe side effects in some people, I am willing to take the chance that I and any family members I may be responsible for, will benefit more from the vaccination than will be harmed by it.

No British parent in the past, at least at the time when we were
parents, would have refused a vaccination for their child if it was
available because we knew how bad measles could be, from seeing its
effects on our siblings or cousins.

None? Amazing. Unfortunately in the US none of our siblings or cousins got measels and so we didn't develop the same mindset. But I am confused, with 100% innoculation how is it that the UK has 5x the rate of measels? I guess the mindset has changed? More American now???

More Americans and other foreigners, perhaps.

In all seriousness there is a lot more "naturalism" for lack of a better word now.

Yes, let’s get “naturally” sick and die, or kill someone else. Genius.

Yes, let’s get “naturally” sick and die, or kill someone else. Genius.

That's productive.

Its fascinating that one issue attracts the extremes from right and left. The extreme left thinks big pharmaceuticals is trying to kill them. The far right thinks big government is trying to kill them.

And what you wrote is productive... 😂

The extreme left thinks big pharmaceuticals is trying to kill them. The far right thinks big government is trying to kill them.

I'm in the middle, I think they're both trying to kill me. ☺

It seems that the measles epidemic is spreading to at least one cruise ship now......

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/health/st-lucia-measles-cruise-ship-quarantine/index.html

I suspect that some governments may enact laws to require vaccinations, at least for children attending public school. If they're not vaccinated, they'll have to resort to home schooling.

Just a suggestion for everyone who has been immunized for measles. It is a good idea to take a photo of your immunization record and keep it on your phone. You never know when you will need it. I am sure some of the students at UCLA, CSULA, and those on the Scientology’s Cruise wish they had a record at their disposal. The time to start looking for it is now before you really need it.

I was born in 1946. I remember having measles, the time in bed, the darkened room. I also had mumps and chicken pox. And yes, I have had the Shingles vaccination.

I remember getting the polio vaccine in school and seeing black and white film on TV in the early 50's showing people in iron lungs who had polio. I knew one person who didn't get the polio vaccine and was crippled from having the disease as a child.

I think anti-vaxxers have no memories of those times, nor have they done any research to learn about the huge risks of not vaccinating for their children and grandchildren and for others. I have relatives who "share" anecdotal anti-vax stories with scary titles on Facebook without actually reading what the story says or finding its source. The librarian in me winces and moves on, knowing that they don't want to be confused by the facts.

I had the measles immunity blood test before my husband and I drove up to Washington this spring. My results indicated a strong immunity. I'm not surprised. With the new European info shared here, I'm glad I'm traveling with this knowledge.

Nancy, we agree again. This is becoming a little unnerving. But before anyone confuses my distaste for those who equate the misguided with killers with my opinion on the subject; I vaccinated my 5 children. Having had Measles and Chicken Pox myself I didn't want my kids to go through the same thing.

Me, I panicked before I went to the Middle East and North Africa the first time about 40 years ago, Central America 30 years ago and before Eastern Europe about 20 years ago and got vaccinated for everything imaginable.

Found my immunization record from back in the 60's - 70's. Everyone used to have to bring it to school either on the fist day of classes for the year, or during the sign up period. If you did not have all the right boxes checked, you did not get to go to school. When did that change?

A previous poster mentioned Edward Jenner. As an aside - and perhaps evidence that human nature doesn't change that much - in 1853 parliament introduced mandatory smallpox vaccination for all babies (Jenner himself was long dead by then, of course). There was considerable opposition and various anti-vaccination leagues were formed (the Victorians were great ones for forming leagues and holding mass meetings; today I suppose they'd just set up a Twitter account and get some ill-informed, idiot "celebrity" to blather for them). Eventually, a conscientious objection clause was introduced .

Ken, that's exactly what I think needs to happen. If you have religious or philosophical objections, you should have to home school. The only unvaccinated children that should be allowed in public schools are those with medical exemptions. And if I were a pediatrician, I would not accept the unvaccinated as patients(except those with medical reasons) because they could endanger my other patients.

I was born in 1947 and had all the so-called childhood diseases, including polio before the vaccine was available. There were no "measles parties"; the illness could be serious and was treated with respect. Like Lo I remember the darkened room ( to protect eyes from damage), the isolation, and the high fever. Not pleasant, especially since I was not allowed to read or watch TV to pass the time.

However, in the 50's and into the 60's it was common for girls to be sent to play with others who were sick with so-called "German" measles (rubella). The idea was to "get it over with" before child-bearing age, because the rubella virus is harmful to a developing fetus. Perhaps this practice is what Brad was thinking of.

“my distaste for those who equate the misguided with killers”

Perhaps if you had a child born with a life-threatening illness, who could have died from exposure to measles, as i wrote in a previous post, you might feel differently about the “misguided”.

So, I am someone who had the measles when they were little--5 years old I think. It was a big deal and. I was moved downstairs to my parents' room so that I couldn't infect my siblings who were both younger than me. I believe I missed at least 2 and probably 3 weeks of school. I am pretty sure it was in the early spring as I have one of those strange vague memories of being bundled up in lots of blankets so I could sit outside in the sunshine for a bit. I don't remember being particularly scared, but that is due to my parents turning it into the cool opportunity to sleep in Mom and Dad's room for a while.

And yes, many children do survive measles with no complications, but there are enough children who do experience them. From the CDC:

• One 10 get ear infections some of which result in permanent hearing loss.
  
• One in 10 get diarrhea
• One in 20 get pneumonia
• One in 1,000 get encephalitis
• One in 1,000 die

So, yes you need to vaccinate unless you have a medical condition.

Roald Dahl's story of losing his daughter to measles is a absolutely heartbreaking. Bets linked it above. See what a parent who watched their child die thinks of it.

But I am confused, with 100% innoculation how is it that the UK has 5x the rate of measels? I guess the mindset has changed? More American now???

The UK finally reached indigenous elimination of measles in 2017, ie there are no continual cases of endemic transmission. However, it breaks out now and again locally generally either from people visiting countries still with endemic measles, or someone from one of these countries visits the UK. One set of people most at risk are those in their mid to late teens, born through the period when the claimed link between the MMR vaccine and autism had not been discredited and have never caught up on vaccination missed. These are often living in a more communal environment, which could be university, attending festivals etc.

Current vaccination rates have declined a bit, but are still over 90%.

Thanks to Diane & all the contributors who posted accurate CDC information regarding Measles (Rubeola). As a longtime healthcare provider, I recall when the MMR Vaccine was initiated. I can't even tell you how many MMR and other vaccines I administered in my 35+ years of practice. I believed then as I do now that the benefits outweigh the risks. It's saving lives. I applaud those who are proactive and are connecting with their healthcare providers to ensure laboratory evidence of their immune status or following protocol for revaccination.

I believe that the measles situation in the US is dramatically worse
than many places due to political pressure to not vaccinate.

At least in the NYC suburbs of Rockland County where the outbreak is the 3rd worst in the US, the issue is religious exemption from the mandatory measles/mumps/rubella vaccine for children before entering school. There was an emergency order by the County Executive (like a mayor of a county) to mandate inoculations but a judge rescinded it. Those not inoculating their children are Hasidic parents.

Not an issue for NYC tourists as Rockland County is not a tourist site.

More reading if you're interested: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/26/measles-ed-day-renews-rockland-state-of-emergency/3584222002/

Susan, they either intentionally wanted to kill, or were misguided to believe they were preserving the lives of their children. Inflamatory rhetoric is tearing the country apart. The people are, in my opinion totally misguided, trying to care for their kids. If yours are inoculated, yours are safe, it's their kids we need to care for and worry about. But it's hard to condem a person who in good faith is making their own, misguided, risk analysis for their own kids. We need better education, not pejoratives.

Marco, I know better than to believe the internet, but I read that the UK and the US both had seven hundred and something cases so far this year. My bad.

People that are inoculated can still get measles.
Children that cannot be inoculated due to health reasons are at great risk from those who are not inoculated.
People that do not inoculate themselves or their children are putting others at great risk and their “misguided” choice can kill people.

“See what a parent who watched their child die thinks of it.”

Exactly right kim.

Let's not forget the other diseases in the MMR vaccine. The second M, mumps, can cause male infertility. I have a relative who got mumps as a young teen and could never have children. The R is rubella. It can cause miscarriages and fetal deformations when a pregnant woman contracts it.

Personally I'd rather risk the potential of a child developing autism than dying from measles. There are some fantastic people out there with autism utilising their penchant for order and routine to great effect. Autism isn't something to be feared.

JC

What risk of Autism?

We went to our neighborhood pharmacy today to get our shingles shots and arranged for measles shots next week.

Let's hope the opposition to vaccines for "childhood diseases" doesn't extend to infantile paralysis -- otherwise known as polio. Anyone who lived through the years before that vaccine was developed -- especially those who had a friend or relative who was struck by this disease -- knows why the vaccine is imperative.

Marco, I know better than to believe the internet, but I read that the UK and the US both had seven hundred and something cases so far this year. My bad

The point I was trying to make is the UK, like the USA has cases because of importation, not internal (or at least that is the official view). For the USA two-thirds of these can be traced to an American visiting a country with endemic measles, and a third someone carrying measles visiting the USA. It is probably similar in the UK. What does differ to a degree are the age ranges where vaccination is low, and those declining on religious grounds (although many of those are really exercising a personal view, rather than one required).

This doctor helps with understanding booster information.
https://zdoggmd.com/measles-booster/

There is absolutely NO RISK OF AUTISM from the MMR. I wish that would just go away. The Lancet article has long ago been debunked. To even infer a risk is irresponsible.

What jules said. 60 Minutes did a story on the debunking of that doctor and that myth years ago.

What jules said. 60 Minutes did a story on the debunking of the doctor that created that myth and that myth years ago. That doctor was a complete fraud.

Interesting story on the news tonight. Included a response to the accusations that Jews are part of the problem. Nothing in the religion that prohibits vaccinations. So my guess is it has nothing to be with Jewish as implied above, but does have something to do with a social view on the subject.

This explains much of it.
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/health-care/why-rabbis-cant-contain-measles-outbreak.html

Interesting story on the news tonight. Included a response to the
accusations that Jewszare part of the problem. Nothing in the religion
that prohibits vaccinations. So my guess is it has nothing to be with
Jewish as implied above, but does have something to do with a social
view on the subject.

Hasidic Jewish people in Rockland County and the Hasidic Brooklyn neighborhoods of Williamsburg & Borough Park -- I don't doubt that their adamance to keep their children unprotected from MMR is not based on scripture. Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed Judiasm tenets don't ban lifesaving vaccines.

To repeat, the fraudulent article was in The Lancet. Not the British Medical Journal. If you want to criticise the "study", and you should, then at least get the publication correct. Otherwise with such mistakes it is harder to take objections seriously and we start to look like the wicked struck off doctor and his made up "science".

Nick, I agree with you. I was intending it to be a generic statement, " a british medical journal", not knowing that there was one by that specific name. I will change. I knew it was Lancet but was too lazy to double check the spelling.

Continental, so it's not about them being Jewish? Sort of like the headline; "Muslim Man Robs Store". If I had to make a wild guess it might have something to do with close contact with more international visitors more so than the vaccination rate. Interesting that the only close friend I have that is opposed to vaccinations is Muslim. But it has nothing to do with religion. She's a tree hugger vegan and it's part of the mindset I guess.

I'm sorry but if I talk to the head of the county health department and she, a doctor, acknowledges vaccine preservatives are chemically mercury (even if labeled under a different name). I'm going to take her word over the current agenda driven narrative news (on both sides of the issue).

Some parents believe vaccines lead to autism. I don't believe it's proven either way, but there is plenty of agenda driven stories on both sides. If you only listen to one side, you likely believe strongly one way or the other.

Why aren't we regaled with stories of child deaths? Because while it's "possible" to get meningitis and die as a side affect, it's extremely rare. One in a thousand will get meningitis, most meningitis won't result in death. Consider also that large number of immigrants crossing the border illegally aren't vaccinated. If it's that serious, why is that ignored? Why slander relatively small groups who have primarily health, but possibly religious, objections to vaccinations? It's exactly what makes me question the honesty of the narrative.

If you're kid is vaccinated, why does my kid not being vaccinated affect you? I was vaccinated (with vaccines that were available to me), my kids were vaccinated, my grandkids are vaccinated. My libertarian view of the world, however, leads me to wonder why government should have more authority over children than parents? Why not "my body, my choice"?

Brad, maybe you haven’t had time to read all posts. I said that being vaccinated does not protect you 100% from the disease. So, an unvaccinated kid can threaten the life of my kid who has a life-threatening illness even if my kid is vaccinated, and even more so if my kid can’t be vaccinated for health reasons.

And yes, it has been scientifically proven that the vaccine does not cause autism.

Brad, it would affect me if my baby who was too young to be vaccinated or my child whose immune system was compromised by chemotherapy came into contact with your unvaccinated child when he had been exposed to the measles but not yet developed symptoms. And measles is so contagious that the contact could be sitting at the same table at a fast food restaurant where your child had sat hours ago.

Good for you that you did have your kids vaccinated.

On the polio: There were 2 vaccines, the Salk vaccine administered by a big hypo and then the new vaccine which you had to take on 3 separate occasions, enough time had to lapse before taking a second dose. This was given in a sugar cube. I took the Salk and then later in 1962 the 3 sugar cubes, the third one in Nov 1962 when I was 13.

I'm glad my grandson 10-12 years ago got all his shots, just as I did when they became available.

The only connection between the MMR vaccine and autism is time-related, not causal. The MMR vaccine is given to babies around 15-18 months, and it is around that time that symptoms of autism in a child may be first noticed. But that is simply a coincidence. It has been carefully studied, and proven, that there is no causal connection.

Here is what the CDC has to say on the subject:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

Note that the MMR vaccine never did contain the mercury preservative (thimerosal).

We got our MMR vaccination Tuesday. We were both "pre-vaccine" kids, and are probably immune, but we figured, "Why take the chance."

Don't just worry about measles; get all your vaccines boosted if recommended. Older travellers like me should review their histories with their doctor, both for boosters and for advancements in other disease prevention. The autism fraud is not the only case of medical self-delusion; anti-fluoridated-water fearmongering has approached mass hysteria. Not a concern on a vacation, I suppose. The Lancet withdrew the corrupt doctor's manipulated research; he lost his licence and I believe he left the UK; too bad for wherever he tries to practice.

There has NEVER been thimerosal (mercury) in the MMR. People that are worried about the very trace amounts of thimerosal in other vaccines should be more worried about fish and dental fillings. I've observed that with any release of scientific information from major, minor or incidental studies, people go crazy over the "chemicals" in their fry pans, water bottles, etc. As if any piece of information is valid regardless of study size, research rigor, etc. Yet, when scientists at the CDC, NIH, etc., say that the vaccines are safe, many just refuse to consider the possibility that yes, in fact, the science is correct. I have a pediatrician friend. She explains, ad nauseum, the safety and importance of vaccines, yet some of the parents won't heed the advice. She then lets them know that they will need to find another MD. If they don't trust her to act in the best interest of the child in regards to vaccines, it wouldn't be a good relationship.

In terms of effectiveness of vaccines, no one has ever claimed 100% immunity and some people can't get vaccines due to age or underlying health conditions. Vaccines rely on herd immunity. Meaning that if most get the vaccine and become immune, the incidence of the disease goes down, thus reducing the likelihood of the disease spreading. People that choose to not get vaccines are leaching off the immunity that is achieved by responsible members of the community.

Hopefully, I will not start a whole heated political debate that I honestly do not have the energy for, I struggle with the Libertarian viewpoint in regards to vaccination, that a person should have the right over their own body. It seems that this argument is applied for vaccines but often the same folk won't accept this argument in regard to other topics.

jules, Well said.