May 25-June 11, 2023 for family of five, Poland/Switzerland/Germany (maybe Amsterdam?) planning

You have thrown a lot of locations into this post. You have to cut some stuff out and I would suggest Poland because it's the most remote. You also don't mention any other thing you want to do there besides go to Auschwitz. I suggest that you think about world war II sites and try to consolidate your locations. For example if your family wants to visit a concentration camp you could go to one in Germany, i.e.
Dachau outside of Munich. You could see some other world war II sites in Southern Germany and then go to Switzerland.
Or you could do Berlin which has a lot of world war II stuff and then go Switzerland. If you throw in Amsterdam and Paris you will have no time for your Switzerland trip which it sounds like you really are looking forward to. I really would stick to two countries max for 2 weeks. It's really not that much time and every time you travel you lose a whole day.

I don’t see direct overnight trains from Zurich or Paris to Berlin but there are direct trains from Zurich to Paris (4h 15m). You can take a direct overnight train from Zurich to Amsterdam. I did it once in the opposite direction. Good websites to check are: https://www.sbb.ch/en, https://www.sncf-connect.com/en-en/ and https://www.bahn.com/en but it's too soon to use the dates you plan on being there.

Since you are still in the very early planning stages, I think the first thing you need to do is list the things you want to see and do in each of the places you want to visit. Once you've done that, you'll have an idea of how much time you would need in each location. How many days (and nights) per city. And perhaps whether it's even worth going to a particular city on this trip (it's all a matter of priorities). Then add 1/2 to 1 day between each place to account for travel time - hotel to hotel. You can't do it all in one trip, and shortchanging one place just to squeeze in one more place usually results in dissatisfaction with both. You've listed 5 different places, which would also need an extra 4 travel days and only have 17 days. So less than 3 days in each location. I think you need to eliminate at least one of these. But it sounds like the planning will be fun, especially if the whole family gets involved.

Europe is a lot bigger than you imagine re: "we're going going going."

For example Warsaw and Berlin are 6 hours apart on the train, and not much closer by air when you include getting to the airport early for security from your hotel, flying and getting to your hotel. Munich to Zurich also takes a long time. Our rule of thumb when we lived there was one city location change takes a half a day by any transportation. And, flying to or from Krakow takes a full day, or you can fly to Warsaw and take the train down and back.

To calibrate your expectations try going to Bahn.com and look at train times among your desired destinations....

There'll be 5 people involved and five approaches to moving around. We usually divided each day into AM, PM and Evening blocks, and filled the blocks by prioritizing what we wanted to see in each place. Travel blocks have to be included.

Another commenter suggested limiting yourself to two countries which for 17 days seems about right. If WW II is an interest, flying into Berlin and out of Paris with possible side trips to Nuremberg and Amsterdam could easily fill the time available. Sachsenhausen is just north of Berlin if you want to see a concentration camp.

Since we used to live in Bavaria I will include two websites:

https://www.schloesser.bayern.de/englisch/palace/index.htm

https://museums.nuernberg.de/nuremberg-municipal-museums/

You have time. Recruit the rest of the clan to help list objectives and explore things to do. Rick's best advice seems to me to be saying "you can't see it all, so just plan to come back another time."

In planning for this trip re: train connections, there is a direct night train Berlin Hbf to Zurich, if you want to consider that option. I would.

If your itinerary includes Warsaw, keep in mind aside from the numerous poignant reminders of WW2, eg, the Katyn Memorial, the Polish Army Museum is located there too.

My initial plan was to fly in to Krakow, Poland so that we could
primarily visit Auschwitz (maximum 2 days?) and then head to
Switzerland by plane where I hope to spend a good amount of time.

And then you'll see "Germany" (well, Berlin) after maybe Paris, and Amsterdam after that? I have to agree - too many destinations, too little time.

The closest any of them would be to wanting to enjoy a museum (even
though I would love to visit nothing but museums) is they're
fascinated by WWII and, hence, why including Poland, Germany, and
Amsterdam to make it a memorable trip.

With just 17 days, cutting way back on the travel radius will help you make time for extended time in "deep pockets" Switzerland and will help make the trip memorable for the right reasons. There are plenty of interesting WW II memorial sites, battlegrounds (like the Ardennes and Westwall) and WW II-related museums to choose from that are much closer to Switzerland than Krakow and Berlin. You might consider combining Berlin, Krakow, and other destinations in this part of Europe on some future trip.

It's fine to include some WW II sites, but chasing down WW II in 4-5 countries is not a sound family vacation-planning strategy, IMHO. Poland is a very interesting country - not so much because of WW II, but for dozens of other reasons. Germany also has a long, long history and its own unique culture, and along with Poland offers far, far more to see and experience than what went on in the 1930's and 40's. While we tend see Europe as a US WW II battleground, there's far more to see, do and learn.

And if the family isn't into museums, Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin, all Big Museum Cities, might be big mistakes anyway.

Have you considered a Switzerland > Germany > Netherlands ground trip? After your time in Switzerland, you'd have a nice variety of options on this route... The Black Forest... Strasbourg, FR... Stuttgart (any auto-enthusiasts?)... Rhine Castles... Frankfurt, Mainz, Cologne, Trier, Aachen... maybe the Belgian Ardennes... Bruges and Antwerp... Delft and Amsterdam. Whether it's WW II, or the Middle Ages, or outdoor activities, or cathedrals, you'd be spoiled for choice.

Since you have teens, the Anne Frank house in Amsterdam would be a good substitute for a concentration camp, and maybe more relatable for them. You need to get tickets far in advance.

EDITED: If you go to Berlin and they still have the Checkpoint Charlie Museum, the kids would probably enjoy it.

We took 20 years to get to Poland, where my father's parents came from. It doesn't even pair that well with a trip to eastern Germany. You have too many places, too far apart, for two weeks. Do you know how expensive Switzerland is?

A lot of people do Amsterdam-Belgium-Luxembourg or -Aachen-Cologne, just for 2 weeks. You need to select fewer places, or places closer together. If Auschwitz is essential, for some reason, then you should just do Germany and Poland. If that's too ethnic a vacation for you (I made that up), then Poland and Czech Republic and Vienna, maybe.

Your mention of two days in Krakow is a hint (to me) that you have no other reason for going there. It's actually a very rich destination (ethnic or otherwise), with day trips available to enrich the visit. We did three cities in Poland by train, and had no time for (just for example) popular Gdansk.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/four-cities-in-poland-2019

Will this be the last European trip of a lifetime for everyone in the group? I ask that question conceptually, not literally. I'm 71, and I hope to visit Europe several more times, after many vacation and business trips over a lifetime. You should not try to put your entire bucket list on one trip. Europe doesn't work that way. Did you read the surrounding material in Rick's book? He has a lot of useful discussion of general Euro travel, including "Assume you'll return."

Hi,

In light of your planning and seeing WW2 sites, museums, etc when you're in Berlin, two singular sites I heartily recommend depending upon the depth of interest you have. Theses two WW2 sites deal with the Eastern Front.

1. The German-Russian Museum in Berlin-Karlshorst, take the S-Bahn 3 from Berlin Hbf (central station) to Karlshorst, then it's ca. 30 min. walk on Treskow, an appropriately named street for the subject of the museum. I've done that both to/fro. There is also a bus running along Treskow taking you right to the Museum.
   

The Museum is housed in a uniquely historical building as it was a site connected with the German Army in WW2, still undamaged and intact in May 1945, and where they surrendered to the Soviets. I saw it last in 2016. It's changed, apart from the tech modifications and the refurbishing of the rooms but in terms of its presentation and historical focus, from what I saw in 1999.

Next: Do a daytrip out to Seelow, the place where the biggest battle ever fought on German soil took place when the Soviets threw a million troops in the Battle of Berlin, which in spite of appalling losses the day's attack failed. It's called: "Gedenkstätte Seelower Hoehen" (Seelow Heights Memorial site.). This place is basically a battlefield monument and memorial.

If going by public transport, take the regional train Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt an der Oder, then the S-Bahn to Seelow, a bit circuitous if you can't get a direct shot to Seelow from Berlin Hbf. If you're interested in seeing ordinance, that's there at Seelow and Karlshorst, ie Soviet tanks, tank destroyers, artillery pieces, and all sort of "stuff".

Time-wise, you can do both these places before going to Poland...all a matter of planning and priority. I've listed here only two military WW2 sites in Berlin, obviously, there are many more, if you're so interested in tracking these down in the Berlin and Potsdam area.

"...an overnight train from Switzerland to Amsterdam...." You're in luck, here. If you decide on this option, it can be done, just a matter of traveling style. If no one objects to this night train route, then even better. On every post-retirement trip I've one or two night train rides, it stretches out your the traveling available.

You take the night train Zurich to Amsterdam with one easy transfer at 9 am in Utrecht. Since your plans are for late May, by 5 am it will be daylight, another advantage. Of course, you don't have to catch first available regional train to Utrecht, depending on your time constraint. The eateries open up between 5-7 am ,

Aspirationally, that's a whole lot of territory - and anything is possible.

I think to succeed, you're going to have to prioritize BIG picture planning and not get bogged down in minutia WWII sites and museums. Big picture Krakow: 1st day - trip to Aushwitz-Birkenau and Krakow proper and 2nd day - the Oscar Schindler Museum and Krakow proper, then it's onward - so, keeping count, that's 3-nights and 2-days of your itinerary.

Just to emphasize what periscope said, here's a reference. It's far too much to really read, but it covers the idea:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/czech/the-rhetoric-of-war-and-remembrance-focused-on-wwii-and-the-cold-war

Since I don't know how (or if) I can respond to individuals, I just want to say THANK YOU for all the brilliant suggestions here and for those who took time out of their day to respond to my question.

I'm literally scribbling everything down and at least realize that France is out of the question completely based on the feedback, if not Amsterdam as well, making this a Poland, Switzerland, Germany trip.

For sure, I don't know when we'll ever be able to do this kind of trip again (your boy has been saving up for nearly 20 years for this) and my eyes, indeed, are bigger than my ambition to turn this into a slog for the family. Pare back, focus, and then plot accordingly.

If anything, Auschwitz is a big driver for me; I completely understand, and appreciate the heads up, that there are other camps in Germany but, and this is just me, I feel compelled to make sure it's this camp we all visit. I'm not that young anymore (I'm approaching 50) and, for sure, with my kids growing up, the one thing I was/am hoping to do as a dad is to give them the very real experience of what the worst of humanity can do coupled with showing them some of the great things the world has to offer, literally.

Yes, I know Switzerland is going to be expensive (and I am the tightest tightwad you'll meet west of the Mississippi...Haha) but I am wanting to set that aside and not be "that dad" for a couple of weeks. These are hopefully experiences that are going to be worth more than doing Disneyland and I'm just wanting to do something nice for my family that my parents weren't able to do for me.

I really don't know when I'll be able to do this again (maybe I'll be able to catch a cheap flight to France or Italy someday) so I'm trying to make these 17 days count.

Again, thank you so much to everyone who offered their insight. :)

Visiting Poland, Switzerland and Germany is a good itinerary. I would focus on Krakow with a day trip by bus to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the Berner Oberland and Berlin. Unfortunately, there are no direct trains between any of these places so consider flying.
From the US you can fly in and out of Krakow, Zurich and Berlin; it doesn’t matter what order and plan on sleeping in three locations. The only time I would take a train is between Zurich and the Oberland.
Rick Steves Kraków Warsaw Gdańsk sixth edition guidebook came out in 2019. The 7th edition doesn’t come out until 2024. His Switzerland 11th edition will be available next Apr and Berlin’s 4th edition comes out in Dec.
Lonely Planet, the guidebook Rick uses put out a Pocket Kraków guidebook in Mar and is probably all you need. If you don’t want to wait until Apr to buy Rick’s Swiss book, Lonely Planet put a new one out in May.
How many nights are needed in each location? I suggest a minimum of four in Krakow, five in Switzerland and six in Berlin.

Taking out Amsterdam and France makes the trip under your time constraint more feasible logistically, even though it was quite doable going from Amsterdam to Berlin, day or night (one transfer), and even Amsterdam to Warsaw with 2 transfers arriving at both sites at a decent time, ie, I'm not talking about changing trains at 2 or 3 AM even though I've seen Germans do that.

Aside from the obvious WW2 sites in Warsaw, and the Polish Army Museum (mentioned above) , there is also the memorial to Katyn. I've seen that not only in Warsaw but also in Krakow, very poignant and obvious.

Depending on how you arrange your train rides, you can easily go from Zurich to Warsaw with one change in Berlin Hbf., if you choose the night train option. Given your time pressure I would have no problem doing this multi-hour ride in order to stretch another travel day. If the others in your group don't object, you're in business.

I would not have dropped France, my personal view. In July 2001 I did France, Germany and Poland in one trip but not under such time pressure as is in your case, took the train ca. 11 hours from Arras to Berlin, transferring twice, Paris Est and Mannheim, then stayed one night in a Pension near Berlin Zoo, (Berlin Hbf was not yet completed), the next morning another 6 hrs or so to Warsaw, all in all a great and revealing adventure.

I would consider Krakow to Berlin to Geneva to Paris and to home. Mostly because I am a heretic and prefer low cost European airlines over long train rides and this route does no back tracking. The flights are under $100 per leg and direct. If its WWII and holocaust history that interests you, then squeeze in Budapest between Krakow and Geneva or start in Budapest.

Your reasoning for visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau with your kids is spot on in my view, and the time we spent in Poland is amongst our most memorable places in Europe. It is a beautiful country with warm and welcoming people. If you have the budget for a guide, I would suggest you contact Andrew Durman in Krakow to see if he is still touring people. He drove us to Auschwitz and provided a wealth of information along the way. We also used his services for a day touring the countryside around Krakow and saw out of the way places that most people never experience. Andrew is hands down the absolute best guide we have ever experienced. The city of Krakow is more than just a jumping off place to visit Auschwitz. I would suggest doing some research on things to see and do there. When you do go to Birkenau be sure to walk back to the "Kanada" section.

As for Berlin, it's my favourite city in all of Europe. Historically, "Berlin was one of the very few European capitals to experience the horror of the Second World War at first hand. Not only was the city subjected to the full wrath of the Soviet ground offensive and siege in 1945, but it also found itself in the very front rank of the air war. Its wartime military history, therefore, is a catalogue of superlatives. As the most important Allied target, Berlin attracted more air raids, more aircraft and more bombs than any other German city."

Having quoted that, I don't see Berlin as that now, I see the city as a study of post-WWII, the Cold War, and the Berlin Wall - so, so much to see from that era and much of it outdoors requiring no more than an interest and a good pair of walking shoes. How many days do you need - I always say a minimum of 5 full days (6-nights.)

With your interests and family, I would go to Amsterdam instead of Berlin. The kids would enjoy the canal boats and possibly bicycles. I haven't been, but I think there is a Resistance Museum in Amsterdam.

If I could only pick one country to learn about WWII history as a whole, I'd choose Poland. There are a plethora of sights that cover almost every facet of the war. I'd honestly spend more than just two days in Poland, maybe add time in Warsaw/Gdansk/Wroclaw. Here are some of the potential WWII sights you can experience:

• Holocaust history (Treblinka, Auschwitz, Majdanek, Schindler’s Factory)

• Museum Of The Second World War (single best WWII museum, tells the story of the global war)

• Wolf’s Lair, Hitler’s Wartime HQ (site of failed July 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler)

• Westerplatte battlefield and museum (The first battle of World War II )

• Warsaw Uprising Museum

• Project Riese/Książ Castle (massive secret underground Nazi base)

• Various V-2 missile sites

• Stalag Luft III POW Camp (of The Great Escape fame)

Outside of a difficult 20th century, Poland has a rich and varied history stretching back over 1000 years, of medieval villages, evocative castles, royal renaissance towns, fascinating culture, great food, bucolic landscapes, and primeval forests and mountains.

I'd be sure to add some non WWII sights like Tatra Mountains National Park, Malbork Castle (largest in the world), and Zalipie Village for example. Just so you don't walk away thinking the beautiful country of Poland is only about doom and gloom.

Hope this all helps! :)

Sounds like a memory maker for all. Maybe get an updated RS book, you may be able to get a good deal online for a 2009 version. :)

Enjoy the trip.

Poland has the best pottery.

I'd dump Switzerland.

Stick with Poland and E Germany. There is a LOT of charm in Poland and Germany. If you want, you can add a little bit of Czechia.

But don't take our word for it. Cost out food, lodging, transport in Switzerland vs Poland vs Germany. Poland will be inexpensive. Switzerland will cost 2x.

We took our 21, 21, 24 YO kids to Europe in 2011. They had all been on an exchange to Germany. But they had not been to Croatia, Hungary, or Austria or Slovenia. Remember that for the kids, they have never been to Europe. You have focused on Switzerland. There's plenty of time to change, if you want.

I'd do E Germany and Poland. And I'd stick with 4 locations. Just doing a lot of transits from one site to another makes for a bad trip. On our trip, we spent 5 nights in Vienna, 3 in Budapest, 3 in Split, 2 in Ljubljana, and 3 in Vienna again. Our trip was 3 weeks.

You also want to get the kids involved early. Have them do the research on each area. Have them do the itineraries for each location. Each kid gets one day, including the 13 YO. Also don't forget that you can give the kids a beer (maybe not the 13 YO).

"There is a LOT of charm in Poland and Germany.." How true. Logistically, omitting Switzerland makes sense given the short time, even with the Zurich to Berlin night train.

Numerous places both culturally and historically are in eastern Germany, some of the most famous and significant places in Prussian-German history are located in eastern Germany: Weimar, Naumburg an der Saale, Halle, Leipzig, Erfurt, Lutherstadt Wittenberg, Dresden in addition to Berlin.

More sites connected with WW2 are located in the Greater Berlin area, just depends on how determined (or desperate) you are in tracking them down, such as Wünstdorf/Zossen.

Chrisstipp, I'm the tightest tightwad EAST of the Mississippi, and I was still able to afford Switzerland with my kids. We camped, and almost never ate out. So you might check out AirBnBs or Apts with kitchens. (Also check out www.jungfraucamping.swiss about renting a trailer.) My kids loved it, and returned years later as adults.

You mentioned Zermatt, and it's nice, but there is a risk/reward calculation to it. It takes a good part of a day to get there, and another to get back. If the Matterhorn is covered in clouds, the "big attraction" is gone, and you've used up a lot of your precious time. My impression (and experience) is that it's in the clouds about half the time, but others can chime in on that. At least with the Berner Oberland, there are lots of other options for rainy/cloudy days. See 'tips' at the website mentioned above.

Too many different places and too much time (and money) spent going between them. Your children are old enough to help plan this trip. They probably will quickly master websites such as DeutschBahn so they can help figure out time and cost of transportation.

Decide, as a family, what you and your entire family want from this trip. Is it history lessons, cultural experiences, a break from home? Please, I understand that Auschwitz has a special significance for you, don't use that as the start of your kids' first vacation in Europe.

I've been to Europe many times, but Poland is my favorite country (been there three times- one was a 2018 WWII research trip.) Many Americans view France as the epicenter of WWII, because of TV shows and movies but Poland was the country whose invasion by the Germans started the war on Sept 1, 1939. The population, both Jew and Gentile, suffered greatly and were under a different set of rules. If a person helped a Jew in Amsterdam, they might be sent to prison. In Poland, helping a Jew resulted in immediate execution of the person and their entire family. Research the Ulma family of Poland.

Unlike France, Poland never surrendered and maintained a fascinating and courageous group of underground fights referred to as the Armia Krajowa (AK) or the Polish underground. The Museum of the Polish Home Army is in Krakow. Much of France was totally compromised and catered to the Nazis in Paris. Before the war, England and France promised to help defend Poland against German aggression. They didn't, and there was what is referred to as the nine-month "Phoney War." All they did was fly over a part of Germany to drop anti-German leaflets.

I would spend more time in Poland, specifically around Krakow and Gdansk. Auschwitz is about an hour from Krakow. There is also the wonderful Schindler museum in Krakow. There, you will learn about what life was like for the average Pole. Krakow is stunning and wasn't destroyed by the Germans (unlike Warsaw) because the Germans thought it was a Germanic city. The town square (Rynek) is the largest medieval town square in Europe. Lots of visit right there (Cloth Hall, Wawel Castle, etc. and stop to purchase some Polish pottery!

While Warsaw is wonderful, it is almost all rebuilt as most of it was destroyed. They have wonderful museums (I wrote an article for POLIN (The Museum of the Jewish History in Poland.) The Warsaw Uprising was a major World War II operation by the Polish underground resistance to liberate Warsaw from German occupation. It occurred in the summer of 1944, and it was led by the Polish resistance Home Army.

From Krakow, you can also visit the Zakopane mountains. Try to stay in an apartment- clean, modern, inexpensive! We took a lovely bus ride there for $5 each way. Easy peasy from Krakow bus and train station.

Also, just an hour from Krakow are the wonderful salt mines which are tremendous to see. Check them out on the internet. Try to do a whole day- half at the Wieliczka salt mines and half at an outdoor ethnographic museum nearby (called skansens.) Learn that the Polish peasants were serfs until 1848!

Gdansk is sort of like what you would find in Copenhagen or Amsterdam. Lovely city with lots to see and an easy day trip by train to Malbork, the largest brick castle in the world. A sensational day.

Be sure to eat in one of Poland's milk bars which are a holdover from communist days. They are subsidized restaurants that serve food like a Polish grandma would make. Very inexpensive and lovely (but not fancy) food.

Poland is a great value. Like I said, stay in an apartment nearby the city centers. Learn to take public transportation. It's not like in the USA. Everybody takes public transportation. The big cities have lots of people who speak great English, so don't worry about that. You will find the Poles to be very sophisticated. I had the chance to speak at their schools twice and was SOOOO impressed with the rigor and kind atmosphere. The children (5th grade) could understand me very well, and I understood their English very well.

I would try to do a week in Poland. Send me a PM if you want more info. I've done a lot of historical writing (journals and magazines) and two historical novels sets in WWII Poland. We are returning in the spring.

If you’re looking for accommodations in Switzerland have you looked into Untours? They have nice apartments in several different areas of Switzerland. However they have restrictions on how many nights you need to stay. What I did is I pick the town I liked and then I went (online ) to the tourist office in that town. Many have websites with apartment listings for rent. We stayed in Meiringen , which is on a train line, and Reuti which is accessible via cable car.

You've received a lot of suggestions already. I tend to travel in straight lines to destinations that are relatively close to each other and cities which compliment each other. Your itinerary is difficult, and it could be expensive with 5 of you.

I would fly into Krakow and take your tour of Auschwitz. Then I'd fly Ryanair over to Vienna and you have many options from there.

You could take the train from Vienna west to Salzburg and Munich--stopping at the Mauthausen Death Camp.
Or you could to north to Prague, Dresden and Berlin. (We were in Berlin and Dresden a year ago.)
Or you could stop at Bratislava on the way to Budapest--my new favorite city.

You really should try to limit your moving from cities to cities as it can make your entire trip a blur for your family.