Making responses to OP and others more helpful

I also would like to get some opinions on telling an OP to take a look
at a Rick Steves guide.

I don't think it is condescending or rude to suggest someone look at the RS guide book for ideas, as they have asked a question in the Rick Steves Travel Forum. Shouldn't be a surprise to get that as a suggestion. If they don't want to invest in a guidebook they can borrow one from a library or look at the RS website under "explore Europe"- most of the guide book attraction lists are included there in some fashion.

I learned by reading Ricks guidebooks initially 20 years ago and expanded; now I never use any kind of guidebook. From an academic librarian perspective it is not condescending to make people aware of something that is a proven effective easy to read widely available portable resource to answer their questions.

I've noticed that a lot of first time posters with very basic questions take offense to basic answers.

None of us are perfect. You have some of the most polite posts.

You are correct, it would be more helpful to expand on our comments. I am guilty, just yesterday, with "Bratislava, naaaa, stay in Vienna". I was lazy. I would have been a lot more helpful to expand on it. But at the very least, I figure if the person cared about my opinion they would ask why. But again, thats no excuse.

Often I send people to my favorite guide book for my favorite city. But probably not often enough.

Thanks, something to think about.

Because so many OPs never even respond, I try to include some questions. That way, if they are interested in engaging, they can respond to the questions and have a conversation. Not everyone wants or needs the same level of engagement, and I am not even sure if all people who post here even know they are talking to another human.
I think advice should absolutely include the directive to consult a guide book. That is what they are for, and there is no reason to reinvent the wheel. I still use guide books after decades of travel experience, but I try to include website suggestions as well.
I sometimes feel like I missed my calling and should have gone into library science. I see indicators all the time of just how weak the research skills are for many people -- young and old. We have this tremendous resource with the internet, but many really do not know how to tap its potential.

I think it's fine to refer people to the RS guide books. But even better, you can link them to the ratings right here on this website:

https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/belgium/bruges

Expand "At a glance" and you can see all the ratings for sights in Bruges.

You might also consider answering broad questions like, "We're going to Paris for the first time. What are the must sees?"
with what you like to do in Paris instead of throwing it back with "What are your interests?"

"When we go to Paris, I like going to the top of the Eiffel tower because . . ., but my SO hates going to the Eiffel tower because . . ."

"We like strolling on XXX street because . . ."

"I preferred this museum to that museum because . . ."

Hopefully they either thank you and go on or come back with, "We're not interested in the Eiffel tower or museums. What we really like/want to do is . . ."

And absolutely nothing wrong with pointing them to the RS guidebook. As mentioned above, this is a RS forum after all.
You could even add your personal thoughts on the suggestions in it, "The book recommends XXX, but I didn't like it that much because . . . I thought ZZZ was better because . . ."

My 2 cents.

I find advice without explanation is unhelpful and I usually ignore it. It's also a pet peeve of mine when someone starts a sentence with" Don't do that," I feel like I'm a puppy getting smacked in the nose with a newspaper.

I also would like to get some opinions on telling an OP to take a look
at a Rick Steves guide. I like different guidebooks for differing
reasons, but one thing I think RS does well is list top attractions
and rate them. All on one page. It would take someone a 5 minute
glance to see suggested places to visit. But, I worry that it sounds
condescending or rude to the OP. Thoughts?

As with other advice I find it helpful to explain why I'm recommending the RS guidebook. I usually explain that I use it because of its practical information compared to other guidebooks.

When I’ve seen the “Read the RS guidebook!” reply a few times, it’s seemed pretty brusque and condescending. In those instances, it seemed to say, “You’ve made it to the Website, but take the time to read it yourself.” But as you and others have said, a little explanation for why the book is being recommended can cut the curtness.

In this increasingly Electronic Age, a reminder about the advantages of having information in print can be helpful, and Rick’s books (for the “Best Of” places he covers) are exceptional for organization, descriptions, rankings and ratings, and maps.

I hate to say this, since RS has been so generous to us, but I like another one better. At least for my favorite city. Let me clairify that. Possibly the RS book is as good for some things, but the other book is better and easier for a bring along. And the graphics are such that you dont have to read as much, a quick glypse works a lot of the time.

From an academic librarian perspective

You mean like behind horn-rimmed glasses? ;)

I kid! And agree that there's nothing wrong with recommending the right book. Thanks for all you do for universities - good librarians are so important :)

But when someone posts: "I'm planning a trip to XXXXX. What are the must sees?", my first thought is, have you done any research at all? Why have you chosen to plan a trip to XXXX without knowing anything about it? I'm a research junkie, so I enjoy reading as much as I can when thinking of going to a new place. That includes forums like this and TripAdvisor AND reading at least one guidebook. And the term "must see" is like chalk on a blackboard because it is so irritating. Is it really rude to tell someone that they should do some of their own research? It just seems like I see so many posts by people who keep asking the same questions that have already been answered ten times or that they could easily find answers to themselves.

Yes, this is a RS forum, so naturally recommending a RS guidebook is #1 for me. But I also recommend a couple of others, depending on the destination.

Jules, you do make a good point about explaining why someone likes or dislikes something. We all have different expectations of why we do the things we do and go where we go, and just because I dislike something doesn't mean that others might like it. It always amazes me when someone says that they've changed their plans because two or three people said they didn't like XXXX without really saying why.

You mean like behind horn-rimmed glasses? ;)

Hank, don’t forget the requisite chain attached to the glasses!

It's all about tone isn't it? Sometimes, you can sense the level of engagement an OP has, and their interest in doing more than just gathering anonymous strangers' opinions. It is tempting to go "soup Nazi"* sometimes, but recognizing a polite nudge to more detailed information than opinions would be helpful..

Then there are the occasional visitors who think this is an official travel agent service of the RSE company. I dont think it is rude to suggest a guidebook would be helpful. I usually refer to "a guidebook" rather than RS guidebooks specifically. But I actually think the Explore Europe tab on this page is a better answer for planning questions. Some people just dont want to read books.

Sometimes, when replies are sparse, that's an answer in itself, isn't it?

* google-able reference to an episode of the US TV series Seinfeld probably too old to go without an explanation.

I recommend to link also more to sources which are published by the destinations' travel offices and boards. Of course they are always formulated the positive way but often they have also very special tips because they know their destinations best.

Furthermore I recommend to guide OPs asking legal questions by linking official regulations, e. g. visa, driving license or customs questions. Opinions or I did this or that for 20 years cannot be a seriously meant answer to a legal issue - also seldomly helpful.

It is tempting to go "soup Nazi"* sometimes …
Sometimes, when replies are sparse, that's an answer in itself, isn't it?

So, then, “No Info for Youuuuu!’

I think advice should absolutely include the directive to consult a
guide book. That is what they are for, and there is no reason to
reinvent the wheel. I still use guide books after decades of travel
experience, but I try to include website suggestions as well.

Can't help chuckling a little as my parents - one a teacher and the other a lifelong lover of learning - sent us to the dictionary or encyclopedia or the library or to a map all the time for the answers to questions. Same when we had to write papers for school; our teachers expected us to compile research via resources found and explored by ourselves. I guess I figured that virtually all of us had to do that at different points in our education?

So it's interesting that someone would be put out by the suggestion of a guidebook, any guidebook, as a first resource for sketching out a trip. No, it doesn't do to just answer the broad question with a terse, "Go buy a guidebook!" or "Read the tourism website!" but gosh, isn't direction to research tools something we've experienced many times in our lives? Like you, valadelphia, once they do get down to their desired attractions and transport and stuff I like to give them additional tools - websites - for more information, details that can change or that they might use a lot, such as train tickets/schedules. That's usually when the most productive conversations can occur as well.

Probably my own geekiness but the RS rated top attraction listings don't do it for me; too brief but can see where they might work for others. I'm fond of Eyewitness guides for the visuals. "Oooh, where/what is THAT?!!!"

But I do like the idea of trying to make a habit of providing reasons why we liked or didn't like something. Good idea.

Haven't advised an OP to look at an RS guidebook and I think I know why not --- two people I am very close to have perfectly good research skills and are familiar with guidebooks and various websites, but often feel overwhelmed and somewhat anxious (and also are both much, much busier than I am). So, I will, for instance, find them two choices of apartments or three places to eat in Venice. I figure some of the OPs might be like that, not unskilled, lazy, or ignorant, but just needing a helpful answer. Such as what Jules is both kind and expert at giving them!

Yes, I will try to expand more when I say I enjoyed something-or-other! I rarely here say I don't like something because I am too aware of how idiosyncratic many of my dislikes are and don't want to explain them or bore people who are not my friends and family (gondola rides, ornate palaces, fancy food, seafood, Raphael and many other middle to late Renaissance artists, most guided tours, temperatures above about 75 degrees, lying around on a beach, shopping, etc., etc.)

I also would like to get some opinions on telling an OP to take a look
at a Rick Steves guide.

Yesterday I posted the same questions regarding train tickets both here and on the RS Facebook page. The first person on the FB post reminded me to look on this website for some answers (great response). A friend responded with what he had done (more good info, and another person told me something to the effect that I read and re-read Seat 61 until I thoroughly understood it. She also told me to use a guidebook and go to the library, if necessary, to get one. She then said that when I got to AMS at 8:40 AM I shouldn't be taking a 4 1/2-hour train ride, but instead should stay overnight (even right at the airport) and head out the next morning.

In comparison, the responses I received on this forum were to the point, and neither Wengen nor Mardee questioned our stamina:)

FWIW, we have lots of RS guide books, but none of them were written in the last few years.

Posted by Kathy

Can't help chuckling a little as my parents - one a
teacher and the other a lifelong lover of learning - sent us to the
dictionary or encyclopedia or the library or to a map all the time for
the answers to questions. Same when we had to write papers for school;
our teachers expected us to compile research via resources found and
explored by ourselves. I guess I figured that virtually all of us had
to do that at different points in our education?

Your folks sound like mine.

"Mom, when was the Spanish-American War?"

"I don't remember. What does your textbook say?"

It seems that many seem to want those who reply to run their answers through a sieve. A sieve that can filter out any possibility of the answer being abrupt, or insufficient at the least, and sound that way. All replies then have to be amenable to the OP so as not to frighten them away, or make them unhappy.
Before a reply is posted one most likely needs to question that answer and (without supposing) try and glean the mindset of the OP's question. What may be their experience, their interests, their education and their approach to partial information. Their emotional reaction to an answer they feel does not fulfill their needs. Where they tired when they posted? Stressed? Not had coffee yet?
Do they need reassurance, now?
Take all that and more into consideration. Then post your reply, best as you can. Or, not post at all. Better to be silent then to be exposed as uncaring or trying to teach a man to fish. Some people hate to fish. But, if you serve it to them, what should it be, fried, baked, breaded, a filet or a whole fish.
So many questions to ask yourself before replying to any post.

I think it is very sad that another person , @Gail, has decided to leave the forum. And formally leave, rather than just cease posting.

There have been too many of these recently- but this is a long term poster who as far as I know has a good track record of thoughtful and helpful responses. Doubtless that is due to an agglomeration of factors, not an isolated issue. But there seems to be a trend for which there must be an underlying reason.

Very often, when direct questions are asked, they do not get direct responses. There was one today where an OP asked for details about the Sleeper train to Sicily, which the OP knew existed. First response was basically- does the train still run?- overnight trains are a dying breed due to low cost airlines. That is not a suitable response. If you don't know, don't answer.

Three today that I have answered- where the OP has known how to fish, but has got poor results for whatever reason. The right response there is not to say keep on fishing- but to give a direct answer or at least a direct answer as to where the fish actually are.

You can't say use Rick's guidebook if the place the OP is asking about isn't in the guidebook. In the English Lake District there have been several questions this week about Windermere. Rick only talks about Keswick in his guide.
In the past I have seen answers basically saying- don't go to Windermere (or anywhere else in the Lake District). But go to Keswick as it is in the guidebook so the responder has been there. That is the wrong answer to me.

Ok, so I'm left trying to figure out what went wrong here. I had no motive, was sending no passive aggressive message. My main question was can we provide the OP more information than just "I liked Rome". "I didn't like Paris". . . I also wanted to know if it was ok to refer someone to the guide. I have never responded with just "get a guide". I'll usually provide what I know and refer to a source that I think might be helpful. Maybe I should have expanded and elaborated on my question.

I thought the answers that I was getting were all thoughtful answers and I found myself agreeing in the most part with everything. I do recall my initial attempts at getting info from the forum years ago, and quite honestly some responses were brutal, and I still consider carefully whether I want to post and try to make sure I'm kind in my responses.

Jules m, it's a good thread. Makes us think. Thank you.

Jules it was a fine question. Ax grinders gonna grind axes, you can run but you can't hide ;)

Nothing "went wrong" --- you just got a diversity of responses.

jules m, you're right. Apologies. Without emojis, it's hard to convey irony.

jules m, you're right. Apologies. Without emojis, it's hard to convey
irony.

Without emojis Stan we are now left to wonder if that was, in itself, ironic.

;) had to add one, can't help myself

Jules, I just went back over the thread 3 times trying to see where it might have gone wobbly for you and I'm not seeing it. As our Twin Cities neighbor Nancy said, you just got a diversity of responses. :O)

PS: I'm in a suburb of the Twin Cities.

Here is another suggestion. When it comes to legal issues, rather than run the risk of giving wrong information, send them to the source. For instance, entrance requirements for various countries. For that the best source is the same source that the airlines use when they check you in: https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/ For medications, drugs and the like, quite a few countries have a web page with the requirements. TSA has a good website for what you can carry through security, etc....

Nothing wrong with "what I do" answers as long as they OP has the law so they can decide if they want to do the "norm" or the "law".

I agree, nice variety of responses. I was just sad that Gail left the forum. She is very helpful for Portugal info. I communicated with her and she said it had little to do with this specific post.

I also agree with Mr. E to refer OPs on legal issues or perhaps a link. Also, I think some comments about how forum member has always been able to do whatever that are contrary to airline rules, TSA, etc. are not helpful. Because while someone gets away with something it doesn't mean the next person will. Just best to provide the authoritative advice and let the OP decide what to do.

@Kathy, I am also a suburbanite. Rather reluctantly, actually. Whereas, Nancy is super cool in St. Paul!

EDITED TO ADD: In regards to teach the OP to fish. Sometimes I see posts where I might be able to offer a bit of help. I'll sit back a while and if I see no one has responded, I'll provide some tips for getting the info. For example, there is a nice Portugal Facebook group I will tell people about. Or, I'll share my strategy for finding wineries for tours and tastings, even if I haven't traveled in that specific area. I hope that doesn't turn OPs off. I always feel something is better than nothing.

jules m, i recently took a pocket knife through 6 security checks while transiting through or departing from three countries. No problem. Well, thats crazy. I forgot it was on my keychain until I got home and unlocked the door. Same trip a woman in line in front of me had a tiny pair of sewing scissors confiscated at security. So its not about what you “can” do, its about what you “should” do.

Sometimes what you should do even exceeds the requirement. That’s useful advice. Frank II just today told someone they needed 6 months on their Passport. Well, technically its 3 months for the EU, but he was correct, the 6 months is better judgement if you consider where you might be changing planes or what if your flight gets changed and they route you through a 6 month requirement country? (yes, in transit, it has to be per the transit country requirements).

The point is we do need to be a bit careful of things are legislated. You aren’t going to bail them out if you messed up. And “The RS forum told me …” isnt going to cut it with the Malaysian version of TSA. Other stuff, like which city is the most beautiful …. Go with your opinion (Budapest of course).

IMO specific posts and specific questions deserve specific answers. Open ended questions like, I am visiting XXX what should I see? Can be answered IMO, with a reference to any guidebook or to Google. Many people will kindly write answers with different sights to see or ask follow up questions. That is their choice.

I have trouble wondering why someone comes here and asks such a broad question. It's just me. I happen to think it is the OP's way of skipping any initial internet research. If they found this forum, they certainly can search Google.

If you go to Google or AI and ask, what should I see in XXX, you will get instantaneous answers and a way to link to a variety of sights to read about them. Unless people here list a link in their answer the OP has to then go and research that answer. I also always now check to see if the poster is new and act accordingly.

Not sure I would recommend a guidebook because I can't imagine someone asking such a broad question and then will go spend money or time on a guidebook if they won't do a i simple internet search.

If you go to Google or AI and ask, what should I see in XXX, you will
get instantaneous answers and a way to link to a variety of sights to
read about them.

We had a RS type send me their iteniary suggested by AI. It was just enough errors to make it less than useful. To follow it would have had the person bouncing all over town.

Is it possible to give too much information to an OP? I wonder if those asking "what are the best" questions just want to be told what to do and don't want to do research. And yes, they could just ask Google or AI (and live with the consequences). That's their call. I only ask whether it's possible to give too much information because of two responses I recently made. Was it really helpful to provide links or maybe I should have just said "do this".

We had a RS type send me their iteniary suggested by AI. It was just enough errors to make it less than useful. To follow it would have had the person bouncing all over town.

Wouldn't suggest AI do an itinerary, but certainly it will list things to see and do. I would expect someone to locate them on a map and figure out a strategy of some logical path or am I expecting too much from posters?

Maybe the answer to them is, "sign up for a tour" and let someone hold your hand for 10 days.

I will try to be careful how I put this, but if a person posts a lot of basic, general questions about a place covered in Rick's guidebooks, I think they need to do some reading of their own instead of expecting a stranger to plan their trip for them and therefore I would just keep my mouth shut and not respond.

@Cala, I think I lean your direction. If all I have to say is get a guidebook, I tend to skip responding. However, if it's something like, "xxx was spectacular, make sure you get tickets for xxxx, and I suggest this or these two guidebooks, then I might post.

jules m, a good thread. Thank you.

I got two things out of this thread.

First that it is more likely than not that there is at least one person here who is willing to take the time and make the effort to make a positive response to a question no matter how the question is constructed or how well thought out the question may be. Thats wonderful. Also wonderful is that if someone does not want to answer the question, they need to say nothing, just simply scoroll past and go to bed.

Second, if the OP wants to best utalize their time and the time of those who respond, they should do at least enough prior research to unconver as many questions as possible and then submit those questions with as much background information as possible. To do less isnt bad, but might proved to be less helpful in the long run.