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Looking for some refinement advice on route and stops.

Let me first start out by saying wow, this forum is amazing! The knowledge from these posts is a bit intimidating and overwhelming. But here goes... newbie user and first time post.

We are planning a trip to Europe for next summer after our oldest graduates high school before heading off to college. Not sure exactly on dates but most likely late June through July. 14 nights is probably max as traveling with two teenagers (will be 15 and 18 at that time) that long in their mind is a whole lot of time with your parents, lol. We have traveled A LOT in the US (LOVE national parks and hiking, but also love cities for history, art, and of course good food) as well as some cruises. First time to Europe though (other than my study abroad experience, which, lets just say was more than a few years ago, lol.)

We wanted to start in Norway and then head to mostly western Europe areas but realized quickly that Norway will have to be it's own trip. It is actually working out to be the cheapest to fly from Midwest to NYC on direct flight, and then NYC to Europe direct flight. So, before I lay out the very rough idea of route, I realize this is a lot to do and for many, too much. However we have done many vacations where we fly in one city, lots of stops/driving and fly out another, so we are used to that. Not saying we always love it, but used to it. Don't want to rent a car/drive and want to use trains/public transit. While I say we love cities, I also don't want to only be in cities and would love to get off the beaten path for some places. However, I'm quickly realizing the cities are where all the high speed train connections are so...
General Thought/Layout (two ideas/versions) is to fly into northern Italy and out of Netherlands or vice versa. Reason being is it seems to be cheapest and direct flights from NYC to Milan/Amsterdam. Looking at a route of basically vertically traveling from northern Italy to Netherlands or vice versa.

Idea 1 - fly into Milan, stay 4 nights and do day trips to explore; then to Strasbourg area as next base for 4 nights with day trips to explore; then head to final base somewhere in Netherlands area for 4 nights with day trips to explore; fly out of Amsterdam. Leaves 1-2 nights for one night stopovers or to add a night on somewhere, or do a sleep train one leg...

Idea 2 - same flights as above (Milan/Amsterdam) but with more stops and only staying maybe 3 nights or maybe even 2 in some, or more sleeper trains?

I realize it is a bit vague, but that is because we are a bit flexible on what we want to do. I would say we love history more than art, but the kids do love Van Gogh. Want to see some cool walled cities/"castles" if you will, love trying new foods, and love nature/hiking.

Thanks in advance everyone! (If I don't respond right away, it's just because it is a crazy time of year with school year starting, kids sports, and work).

Posted by
1737 posts

In Alsace-Lorraine, RIQUEWIHR is a medieval town with its original medieval walls and gates. RIBEAUVILLE has some of its walls remaining but the big draw is its three ruined castles that you can hike to. Three miles north of Ribeauville is the medieval walled city of BERGHEIM, which has all of its medieval ramparts and turrets completely intact. Another castle is Chateau du Haut-Koenigsbourg, with origins going back to 885 AD, it’s one of the best preserved castles in Alsace-Lorraine. It was restored in the early 19th century. It’s located about 7 miles from the train station in Selestat, which is a 40-minute train ride from Strasbourg.
In the Netherlands, the incredible castle of “MUIDERSLOT” from 1370 AD. can be reached in 45 minutes by bus from Amsterdam.
If you’re interested in seeing the 16th-century “Star Fortress” at NAARDEN, it can be reached by train/bus from Amsterdam in 30 minutes.
Have a great Trip!

Posted by
5406 posts

I'd recommend, if flying into Milan, (stay no more than one night, )and travel by train is the recommended mode:

-go to beautiful Varenna, Lake Como for a few nights, ride the ferries around the Middle Lakes area, visit Villa Balbianello, (many movies filmed here), Bellagio and Menaggio.
To Tirano, Italy, to catch the Swiss Bernina Express train route (amazing scenery) to Pontressina, spend a night or two,
To the Berner Oberland (Alps), ride gondolas, cogwheel trains to soaring heights , hike,
To Strasbourg,
Onto the Netherlands. We just returned from the NL this past spring, so I'll attach my Trip Report.
(Actually, you could do two weeks just in the Netherlands and Belgium, we had a fantastic time, canals, windmills, and castles. )
You have so many fantastic areas and it will be hard to narrow it down. Enjoy planning, get some guide books if you haven't already, read Cameron's blogs here, Trip Reports, join city specific Facebook groups, as a start.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/the-netherlands-belgium-april-2024-brought-the-rain-pants-needed-the-rain-pants

Have a wonderful family trip.

Posted by
1303 posts

There's a lot of places you can hear recommended around Strasbourg; Colmar, Riquehr, etc. I don't consider them "off the beaten path" as they become overrun with tourists. But they are easy to get to using public transportation. Even Wissembourg, which is up on the border is less well known to Americans, and yet it gets busses of EU visitors. You might take a day and see Obernai and Rosheim, they are less well known. Haguenau is also easy to reach by train.

In Alsace you should visit Mt St Odile - https://www.visit.alsace/en/258000592-mount-sainte-odile/

I'd consider an overnight, at least, in Bern between Milan and Strasbourg. But, even more, I'd pass on Strasbourg and go over to Konstanz. There you have Meersburg, the lake, Mainau, the dinosaurs at Bodman, Lindau, Zepplin rides, and all the other stuff right there.

Posted by
7 posts

Wow so many amazing suggestion's and tips! Now I have some homework to do. Not familiar with a lot of the places suggested so will need to start digging into research! For those of you that shared links with trip reports, thank you! Someone mentioned a guide book. Would you recommend one book per country, or a general Europe one? To answer some of the "do I want to stay in Milan" the answer is no. However, I was under the impression that in order to have access to trains in lots of directions for day trips, that I needed to stay in a larger city. I am choosing northern Italy as we don't have time to spare to go further south so doing what we can to see some of Italy. I've heard great things about Florence, and not so great in regards to crowding to the point of ruining. While I would love to go in off season, that is not an option with schools/college here. Retirement for hubby and I though.... ahhh some day!

No one mentioned using sleeper trains to get from location to location, and free up daytime for exploring. I'm curious why? Not saying I want to do it all the time, but seemed on paper, smart (and potentially an interesting new experience) for one leg of the trip. But I'm interested to hear from others.

Posted by
14758 posts

I use night trains as a travel option but no sleeper or couchette option, not necessary. The one advantage in taking night trains and they fill up is that you squeeze out an extra day of travel.

Like other travel options, choosing the night train depends on one's travel style. I have absolutely no problems at all sleeping and taking night trains...you see all the people doing exactly as you are.

Those I see doing night train routes are practically all Europeans, mostly German, some Asians, depends but no Americans at all, at most a few US college age kids. I took 2 night routes this trip, had planned on 4 but lazied out in the end, eg, going from Berlin to Budapest.

Posted by
7 posts

@miuccia - we do want to spend some time in Northern Italy. I'm picking Milan because it is where our flights are best for fares and direct flight from NYC. I don't care if we start in Netherlands/Amsterdam and end in Milan or vice versa really. some day we would love to do all of Italy, but we are squeezing every last drop out of this trip as I don't know when we will get back. (the joys of college costs in the US).

So that being said, where around Milan/northern Italy would you recommend staying (as I feel like Milan is too expensive, and too much city hustle/bustle) for say 3/4 nights to explore? Or do we just stay in Milan as really we are only using it as a base for sleeping and day trips? So far what I have come across is the following for day trips from Milan: Bergamo about 40 minutes; Cinque Terre - about 3 hours; Verona about 1 hour 20 minutes; Bologna - about 1 hour 5 minutes; Lucca (recommended somewhere but also the farthest, so probably not doable) - about 4 hours. Obviously can't do all of them... but putting together what I found so far that seems doable.

Interesting thoughts on the sleeper trains. We would book an actual sleeper car for us. Obviously, would need to find the best connection to use this on, and if it even exists. But I know my daughter would think it's cool and it would allow us to save an extra day for sight seeing.

Posted by
1737 posts

Why stay in Milan for daytrips if it seems the hotels there are too expensive during the time you would be there? It seems Milan itself has little of interest to you ( that’s true for many travelers) so maybe you’d be better off staying in the places you want to see instead of Milan.
In any case, Cinque Terre and Lucca are too far from Milan to do as daytrips.

Posted by
291 posts

We loved Turin. Still a big city but not as big as Milan and very easy to get around in. Cinema museum with rooftop viewing platform, the original Eataly, a great car museum and the old Fiat factory with rooftop test track, excellent public market. All the usual old things. If your kids will share a fold-out couch, I have a great AirBnB to recommend.

Amsterdam is great. Van Gogh museum and Anne Frank House are not to be missed. Both require advance booking. Those Dam Boat Guys evening canal tour was excellent. Our friends did a bike tour that they enjoyed very much.

We took a sleeper train (Munich to Cologne?). My son was 12, so he thought it was cool. I'm not sure he still would at 18. I did it for the experience more than anything else. You can see your options at seat61.com. The Man in Seat 61 will have ALL the information, and he generally has videos of the room options on the various trains. Be warned: this site is a major rabbit hole.

Posted by
7 posts

Thank you all for your feedback, super helpful! So after reading all of these reviews and doing some research on high speed train times and options for day trips, Bologna seems to be the best option. Still able to fly into Milan and then head there. Lots of options for day trips. Cinque Terre is not one of them, but that's ok. Let me know if I'm missing anything on thinking that Bologna would be a good home base. Thanks!