London to Rome in four days (Advice on itinerary- 1st European trip)

Are you spending any time in Rome? There is a lot to see there. You can't go all over. You have 1, 2 days. Go to Rome, see the Colliseum and the other sites.

I'd do this:

Nov 6: Arrive London
7-9: London
10-14: Rome
14-21: Cruise
21-24: Paris

Most here advise not moving around much. If you follow my plan, you are doing all 3 of the very best cities of Europe!

I like Paul otfn's itinerary for first/possibly only trip to Europe.

So you arrive London on the 6th. You explore London on the 6th (half day, jet lagged), 7th, and 8th. On the 9th you go...somewhere. A few thoughts:

-Normandy from Paris makes sense.

-If your London flight is on the 24 you will need to leave Paris on the 23 to get there. A late evening train would be fine if you wanted to maximize your time in Paris.

-Do you want any time to visit Rome before the cruise, or is arriving there ON the 14 your plan?

-I don’t know a ton about the Alps. I would be concerned about November weather in the higher altitudes, though. No advice, just a consideration. Hopefully someone with Alps knowledge can help here

-I like the idea of Venice.

-What I’d do is stay in London a little longer (maybe till the 11) consider a side trip to Bath or Cambridge or another town of interest. Then fly to Venice, stay there until the 14.

OR

Go to London until the 9, fly and spend 3 nights in Venice (9-10-11) then spend a couple days in Rome before the cruise. Often you don’t get much time in the departing city, so you might want more time in Rome itself.

In Rome, we will have from our arrival on the 10th or 11th until departure on the night of the 14th. Would you advise flying from London to Rome? We thought about taking a scenic train? Is that too much. My husband has been to Rome before. I have not. Also, we were thinking of taking the train from Barcelona to Paris instead of flying. Thoughts? (Our friends booked ahead of us.)

So it goes like this for your hard dates -- arrive London 6th, arrive Rome 14th, cruise to Barcelona, arrive Paris 21st, leave London 25th. Is that right? And you're looking for advice about what to do between the 6th and 14th, and between the 21st and 25th?

First, "a couple of days seeing London" will leave a lot unseen. You could easily spend a week there before flying to Rome. I haven't been to the Alps but I doubt if November would be a good time to go there unless you want to ski. Venice is wonderful, but that time of year you could encounter the acqua alta, a combination of high tides, storm surges, and rain that sometimes floods the city. Last November the flooding was especially severe, see on YouTube. Perhaps you should consider spending a few more days in London and then a few days in Rome before your cruise -- two of Europe's greatest cities, with plenty of easy flights between them. EDIT -- I see from your message above that you will have some time in Rome, good idea.

It's not clear when you'll travel between Barcelona and Paris. Both are great cities but I think Paris deserves more time, so I'd suggest getting there as soon as you can after disembarking. I believe there's fast train service and I know there are flights, but you'll have to decide which to use, keeping in mind the time it takes to get to and from airports vs. train stations. Rome2Rio can be helpful with choices like these. With only three days for Paris you don't really have time for Normandy -- there are one-day tours to the D-Day beaches but it's a long ride both ways for not much time "on the ground." And there's more than enough to see in Paris for the time you have.

Given the 2:00 pm time of your Nov. 25 flight home from London, which you really don't want to miss, I'd suggest spending the night of the 24th in a hotel at CDG airport (Paris) so you can get an early morning flight to whichever London airport you'll be using to fly home. The Eurostar train, which goes under the English Channel, is a great way to get between these cities, but it doesn't serve the airports and you won't have time to get from central London to your airport (Heathrow?) the morning before your flight.

This is a busy itinerary so I'd recommend minimizing the number of cities you visit. The fewer times you have to change hotels, the more time you'll have to see what you came to see. (This is one of the virtues of a cruise.) I hope it's not really your only trip to Europe -- there's so much more to discover, you may decide to come back.

Thanks for responding so quickly. Sorry, our flight out of London is on the 25th.

I suggest a few days in London, then fly to Venice. We have been there in late autumn and it was nice. And even if the weather offers clouds and rain, there is lots to see and do indoors. Or Donna raincoat and enjoy the beauty of Venice in the mist.

You should also allow a couple of days to see Rome.

I love the Alps but would never consider a visit in November. It will be very cold, and very likely cloudy and gloomy, or even snowing. And it gets dark early, so even if the weather is decent, you do not have much time to enjoy the scenery.

Paul's itinerary is about as good as you can do. Remember to account for travel time in your itinerary:

Nov 6: Arrive London
7-9: London, Fly to Rome either late on 11/7 or early the next morning on the 10th. You should factor a half day for travel from either Gatwick or Heathrow.

10-14: Rome
14-21: Cruise
21-24: Paris, You are really going to have the 22 and 23rd to to see Paris, as you need to factor in the travel time from Barcelona which would be at least a half day again. The Barcelona Cruise Terminal is about 30 minutes to an hour from BCN, depending on car or public transportation. Also, I would highly recommend that you be back in London the night before your return flight to the USA.

Most importantly make a list of the 5 to 7 sights that you would most like to see in London, Rome and Paris and enjoy them. If you do return in the future, you can see other sights and places that you omitted the first time.

Our cruise leaves on the night of the 14th. We want to get to Rome by, at the very least, the 11th so we will have time to see Rome.
The cruise ends on November 21st. So, itinerary:
London - Nov. 6th to ?
Unsure - Nov. ? to 10th
Rome - Nov. 11th to 14th
Cruise - Nov. 14th to 21st
Paris - Nov. 21st to 24th
London - Nov. 25th to go home

Thanks so much for all the comments. They are greatly appreciated!!

When you travel from one place to another, you lose a lot of time. You clearly want to maximize your sight-seeing and touring. Going 3 places instead of two will just waste a lot of time.

If you run out of things to do in London or Rome, it's good to do day-trips. Let's say you want to see Cambridge or Bath. Each of those is likely on a brief train-ride. You take the train, spend the day, return in the evening to your comfy hotel. No pack-unpack

Besides all that, why won't you return to Europe? It's fun. We go every other year. Find a way to return and go to the Alps in the summer or to Venice in the spring.

Thanks! That makes sense.

You really need to be in London the night of the 24th for your flight home on the 25th. Trying to get there the AM of the 25th, especially in Nov when weather can be factor is an unnecessary risk. To understand the risk, price a one way ticket from London to your US destination, for tomorrow, to get an idea of the cost of a walk up ticket, should you not get to London in time for your flight.

As for the Barcelona to Paris leg, it looks, time wise, close to a push air vs train, when the extra processing time to fly and getting to/from airport is factored in. As you and your friends are going on to Paris as part of your trip I would be inclined join then with however they are going.

I like Paul's plan. If this is the 'one and only', I think doing fewer places well is the better choice vs dashing about to multiple destinations.

As for Normandy, you may want to wait until you are there and know what the weather is to decide if a day trip from Paris is worth it.

Nov 6 may be a totally non-productive day due to jetlag and sleep-deprivation. A lot of us struggle merely to remain awake and vertical on our arrival day. We try to stay outdoors to help banish the jetlag. I wouldn't count that as a sightseeing day at all, instead figuring that you have just four days before heading to Rome on the 11th. That's a very short amount of time for London, and I absolutely would spend all four of those days in that city. There is a great deal to do there. If you have nice weather, consider one or two LondonWalks walking tours. You don't have to book them in advance; you just show up at the indicated Underground Station and hand over your 10-pound payment. The schedule for winter 2019/2020 probably won't be available long before you leave, but you can get an idea of the neighborhoods and topics covered by looking at the current schedule.

If you're unlucky with the weather, London has enough indoor sights and activities to keep you busy for months.

After the cruise you'll head to Paris with the rest of you group, but as already noted, you and you husband need to get to London on the night of Nov 24 so there is no risk of missing you flight home. It is very expensive to buy a last-minute replacement one-way transatlantic ticket.

Agree with Paul and as supported by Ed. Forget the Alps, Venice., Normandy. This will not be your last trip to Europe, don’t try to plan it as such. You are underestimating the time involved in travel within Europe and the logistics of traveling and you’ll eat up all your time. You are traveling when weather can be iffy, so don’t go to places where you know it will be bad. Too bad you’re not seeing Barcelona, a great city, but once again you don’t have time unless you shorten Paris and I would not do that. Get the Rick Steves books on London, Rome, Paris and enjoy three great cities. Don’t try to do too much. Make sure you have well broken in comfortable walking shoes, don’t worry about fashion. Athletic shoes do it for us. The train from Barcelona to Paris (high speed) is about 6 1/2 hours. We enjoyed it and when you look at the time to get to and from an airport, security, luggage issues, its about the same. Since it’s your first trip and there is a cruise and it’s winter you’ll probably overpack. Just keep that in mind for trains as you are responsible for carrying and stowing your bags (in the car you are on, overhead or luggage racks on the ends). Read about the use of money belts. Get them and use them when you are in these cities; especially be alert at or near train stations where pickpockets concentrate.

Any tips/suggestions about the best area to find accommodations in London? Looking so far at VRBO.

In London are you interested in a studio apartment? I have a good Airbnb place I can recommend.

That would be great! Unsure what area of London in which to look. In which area is this located?

I would add one day to Rome and do a day trip to Pompeii.
Add the rest to London and add in some day trips from London. Try to Aboid the multiple location trips if possible. Also chose train over bus if possible.
Obvious trips from London include. (But not limited to)
Bath,
Stonehenge
Portsmouth
Oxford
And of course Windsor.

With the small amount of time you have in each city, I would not do any day trips from them. Pompeii is a long day from Rome and there is so much to see in Rome. I have been to London 7 times and still find plenty to do there, although you might want to include Windsor since it's so close to London.

I will agree with the others who said you need to be in London the night of the 24th for your flight the next day. You do not want to travel from Paris to London in the morning to make a 2:00 pm flight home. There are just too many ways that can go wrong, as you will be on separate tickets (even if you fly to London) and are unprotected in case of delays. If you should miss your home-bound flight, you will have to purchase new tickets at last-minute prices.

You could leave Paris in the morning by Eurostar and be in central London 3 hours later, with more than half a day left to enjoy London. So in theory you could take a night from London at the front of your trip, making it 4 nights, arriving 6 November and departing on the 10th. You could either take a morning flight to Venice for just one afternoon and night, and take an afternoon train to Rome the next day (the 11th); OR just fly to Rome on the 10th. Your choice.

I know one-night stops are not favored here, but you did mention an interest in Venice, and it is quite accessible for a short visit, being very compact, with easily-reached main sights like St. Mark’s and the beautiful piazza.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

First and last trip to Europe...and you want to spend your time city hopping on a boat? If you really do that, consider flying into Rome and out of Paris instead, You may think in/out of London is more cost effective, but when you consider what you will spend getting to Rome and back to London from Paris you'll see that you're not saving either time or money. Having been to all three of the big cities you mentioned, I believe you will want more time in Rome, a more interesting city than London, and also Paris. Normandy out of Paris is NOT a day trip, so you'll want to take a train to Bayeux or Rouen from Paris and book at least one night in a hotel or B&B and get a rental car to explore all the sites. Another thought is to skip the cruise and fly to Venice and do Venice, Florence and Rome, then fly to Paris and meet up with your friends. The schedule you listed will get you to big cities, but barely scratch the surface because of the limited time you'll have in each. Quality over quantity should be your goal. Good luck, and hopefully this will not be your last trip to Europe.

I wouldn't wear jeans or a t-shirt to tea at Fortnum and Mason, but a polo shirt and khakis were fine when we went in 2016.