Local Culture, Etiquette, & Manners

On my first trip to Europe I was pretty bewildered why the keychain for our hotel room was so large. I mean, it was an entire doorknob. After lugging it around sightseeing for a few days (and by which point it felt as heavy as the entire door jamb), I learned it was made large and unwieldy on purpose - so you don't leave the hotel with it. um, oopsie...

Germany is similar to France in that you should greet people when you walk in a store or restaurant. Also, it is not appropriate to call people you just meet by their first names.

In Paris, you always must remember to greet the owner or host when entering most small shops. You can't just walk into a store and start plowing through things. These shops are an extension of the owner's personal space, they have the attitude that they could really care less whether they sell you anything or not, and definitely, the customer is not always right!
This holds in restaurants too. My sister and I were standing in line for Angelina tea room, and when approached by the hostess my sister said "deux". The hostess was offended, she said "no bonjour" meaning that should have been what we said to her first, that she was offended by us blurting out how many seats we wanted. What seems perfectly reasonable and efficient to us is rude in Paris (haven't been to any other cities in France, but would guess they're the same). A friend of mine went to a restaurant. They wanted to seat him at a table close to other people, he requested a table further away and the waitress then proceded to refuse to wait on him. I really recommend getting a book on French culture and people - there are several good ones, that are fun and interesting to read. Might save a lot of misunderstandings. That said though, I think the French are very nice.

Language itself can add a level of complication, because several European languages have a familiar and formal form of the word "you", and the proper use can vary even within the same country.

The one custom that took me the most time to adjust to was Bulgarian head gestures, where "yes" and "no" are the opposite of what we are accustomed.

One dining custom (mainly in Big cities) i found disconcerting at first. After being seated, one does Not have absolute right to the space. If crowded, people, even whole families, will ask you if the table/seats are "free". It is Very impolite to refuse. You then share dining with your "companions". The reverse is also true. If you cannot find a dining space, it is acceptable to ask someone if the table/seat is "Free".

German Christmas gift question: Trying to keep my luggage as light as possible, I am of course trying to find light gifts, so do y'all think the "Ped Egg" foot thing is too personal a gift to give to a lady (not family and over 60)?

I wouldn't want anyone to think I thought they needed this because they have dirty feet! ;)

Also, once, after eating in a German pizzeria (where they cut their pizza with a knife), I sent the proprietor one of those round pizza cutters, thinking he'd appreciate it because then the customers wouldn't need to cut their own pizza and he wouldn't have as many dirty knives.

Wrong.

He got his feelings hurt that I thought he wasn't running his establishment as efficiently as he could have.

Gotta be careful over there!

Thanks

B~

I just had to Google to see what's a PED EGG..but of all the possible gift choices, that would be pretty low on the list. Take the lady a scented candle. At least she can burn that...

Scented candle = more weight.

Other ideas?

Thanks

B~

They sell Ped Eggs at Walgreens. I would focus more on something European, that you cant find here.

If my husband bought me one of those, id buy him a jock strap for christmas.

I got the impression that Bill meant gifts to take to Germany? If that is the case, I think the Ped Egg is a great idea. I wouldn't be offended and it's something different.

Yes, they'd be gifts to be TAKEN to Germany. Sorry I was unclear, but I'm still wide open for suggestions.

Also, BTW ;), a jockstrap would be okay with me!

Bill

Bill, with my husbands German family I have noticed that gifts at Christmas tend to be small and lower key then here.
I still think the ped egg is a bad idea, just too personal in my opinion. Really, quite a bad idea, although I am sure you meant well.

A lady of that age generally has everything ,, but it is always nice to get something,, so perhaps a lovely apron , maybe one that is a souvenir from where you live? I assume she still cooks.

Or, a nice scarf or gloves, Germany is cold in the winter and ladies like to have wardrobes of scarves, not just one or two like men, LOL.

It would help if we knew how close you were to lady,, I mean, I would consider getting my grandmother knit booties, but not my husbands aunt , so it does matter who you are buying for.

Pat,

Thanks! :) I had already come to that conclusion, but I appreciate your confirming it for me!

I don't know if they re-gift, but I can just imagine them opening their gift at the same time and going..... Häh????? ;)

These are the wife, mother and mother-in-law of my best friend in Rothenburg, so yeah, I would like to give something special and Peter had already told me they get enough calendars (which was my usual gift for the ladies) and they never have a place to hang the ones I give them.

Last Christmas they each got one of those necklace/bracelet fasteners which I hope they were able to use.

Aprons sound like a great idea, thanks Pat!

Bill

PS: I know I kinda mixed in my gift question with the etiquette topic, but I was really interested in what y'all thought about my pizzeria guy and his reaction to my gift of the pizza-cutter?

yes a "lady of that age"...whatever THAT means probably has many things..my parents say "if we can't eat it or burn it we don't need it"...and there are small lovely scented candles...I do agree with the no more calendars because of only so many walls...I guess aprons are fine as long as cloth, not "plastic"....Regarding the pizza cutter: in general, chefs, "even pizza chefs", are a tempermental lot and don't appreciate help in the kitchen. I love my pizza wheel cutter for home use. In french restaurants pizzas are never cut before serving, so no knives (or knife) to wash.

A few others - it is generally impolite to hand money directly to cashiers, wait staff, bus drivers, etc. Place the money on the table/counter and wait for your change, if appropriate.

It is not generally necessary to wait to be seated/escorted to a table in restaurants. This depends, of course, on the price range, but I am talking about everyday kind of places. Also, Europeans generally do not leave tips on the table -give the tip to the waiter/waitress when settling the tab.

When riding on public transport, look to see if there is a sign by seats that indicate that the seat is reserved for handicapped. You can sit there, but must give the seat up if someone is entitled to it. And to be extra polite, offer first - or you might be TOLD to get up. You might not know exactly what the sign says, but generally they are near or on the seat and sets them apart from other general seating.

It's funny you should mention the canister. I went to Germany in 2000 with my aunt and uncle. My uncle, then in his late 60s thought it was a glass and drank his milk out of it.Your post made me laugh all over again. My most embarassing moment was in Italy when I tried out my tourist Italian. I intended to ask for a peach gelato but asked for fish instead. Or maybe it was when I fell INTO a gondola in Venice.

BillI know that you sent the pizza cutter out of the goodness of your heart, butI think it was a made decision. He probably been cutting the pizza with a knife for years and was happy doing it that way, then some American sent him something else to use which probably insulted him. Must remember that they have been doing things the way they do them (probably for generations) for a lot longer then us (most of the time) and happy with how they do it.

Teena--better the gondola than the canal!!

Read "Last Trout in Venice" if you wonder why...

In some parts of Germany it is considered a faux pas to give knives, scissors, and other cutting instruments as gifts.

The symbolism is that those gifts would "cut the bands of friendship apart."
In less magical thinking it is interpreted as an intentional snub.

As a workaround it is usually accepted that one could sell knives to ones friends for 1 cent...

Actually, giving cutting instruments as a gift is an issue in more cultures than just Germany. I know in my family if you give a knife or scissors you always collect a penny so that you don't "cut" the relationship. It could be British as my grandmother was from England, but we've carried on the tradition here.

Pam

also in France..if you receive a knife as a gift you must pay a coin back..

While I was still living in the US I would bring back small picture books of the area I was living in, or calendars with photos of the area as gifts, they are easy to transport, and I would collect them during the year and various trips. Often you can buy them in the local drugstores too.
I did this for taking presents back to the States as well, just bought European ones to take back.
I always carried pretty postcards with my email address on it too, in case I ran into someone I wanted to stay in contact with.

As I'm sure you all know, generalising Europe is a dangerous game. We Europeans struggle sometimes with the different rules of etiquette in different countries.

Tipping

In Britain, it is usually polite to tip about 10% of the bill in restaurants. People might call me stingy, but I never tip anywhere else (and I worked as a barman for a long time). And people will wait for 5p change at the bar.

In Germany it is polite to round the bill up to the nearest round figure, ie. a bill of 38EUR rounded to 40EUR.

In Italy (though this is changing), tipping isn't really expected.

At the bar

In Britain, in every pub and in almost every bar, you must stand at the bar to order your drink (food is a different matter, and there will usually be a sign telling you what to do). In restaurants, your order will be taken at the table, of course.

In Germany, it is more usual to have table service and you pay a total bill when you're finished drinking.

In Italy, there will often be a cassa, where you pay for the drink, receive a chit, then swap this at the bar for a drink.

In Restaurants

The big difference between the US and Europe, in my experience, as that you would never be "hurried" to finish your meal (except maybe in some chain restaurants in central London). If you don't ask for the bill (check), it won't come! And while service in Britain (for example) can often be poor (by American and British standards), the flip-side is that you can legitimately take three hours over lunch, or have dinner from 8pm through to close.

Don't be surprised in S. Europe if restaurants are deserted when you eat (unless they're bad - use your judgement), as while Brits might like to eat (out) around 7-8pm, Spaniards might not be ready until 10pm. At the extreme end, it's not unusual for Cypriot families(!) to sit down to dinner after 11pm.

As you can see, Europe is a big place and richly diverse. It's complicated for us, so you should just enjoy your holiday!

1. Ladies shouldn't walk and smoke. This one probably doesn't apply to many of you, but as first generation German and as a smoker, when I was in Frankfurt, my Uncle Hans was appalled that a lady like myself would attempt to enjoy a cigarette and walk at the same time. Apparently, one must sit to enjoy things like cigarettes, booze, etc. that may just be a Uncle Hans and Aunt Karla thing for me, though...hahaha (I always adhere to it!)

2. When staying in one's home, bringing a gift flowers or a bottle of wine/schnapps always are welcome in Germany. I also taught my friends how to two-step, as I was raised in Texas...and brought some old-style country music (like Patsy Cline) with me. It went over well!

3. There is always the issue of dining table etiquette. I was raised by two Germans, so it was no problem for me. I do not follow the "napkin in lap" "one hand in lap" rules as in American dining. I eat in the European style, with my knife kept in my dominant hand (right) and my left hand busy with my fork. My fork prongs always stay down, not up to "scoop" like in the American way.

Here is one. Do not yawn in public in Bayeux, France. Or if you need to, be sure to cover your mouth while yawning. My 21-year old son yawned in front of the cathedral in Bayeux. He didn't cover his mouth and a local gentleman came over and put his hand over my son's mouth indicating the local custom. Lesson learned for my son, as I have been trying to get him to cover his yawns for many years.

Covering ones mouth when yawning is custom( manners) here also..

Amber, you do have a point there about the table manners. Being from Europe myself,the American manners sometimes do look pretty appaling to us Europeans. My mom used to watch people when in a restaurant here in the States and be just astounded with the weird table manners such as cutting with the fork and putting the food in the mouth with the knife and anything inbetween. If you do not want to look like a tourist, watch the way locals eat and try and emulate it.

Watching other diners seems kind of weird. I don't like watching other people eat under any circumstances. If your need for voyeurism is so great that you are compelled to watch other people eat, then you get what you deserve in the disgust category. And then complain about it? Boring.

Table manners vary by country. In the U.S., it is perfectly fine to cut some foods with a fork. In Europe, it is not.

In Europe, right handed people keep their fork in the left hand, knife in their right, and never switch. That's considered bad manners in the U.S.

Now, before we argue about it, let's first understand why American eating habits are different.

It all started just prior to the Revolutionary War. American colonists had already begun to dislike the British government but were not allowed to be disobedient, march or cause any type of civil unrest. But they needed to show they were different. By moving untensils from one hand to the other, they could show their own subtle form of defiance and claim themselves Americans.

The "European" way has been around for centuries. When knives were first around, they were used to help cut meat. Cooked meat was cut with the knife (usually in the right hand) and then brought to the mouth with that same hand. It was efficient. Forks came later.

Neil,, that was a bit rude sounding. This post is about what consitutes good manners, and how that is DIFFERENT to other people in other places, you sound very defensive.. although why I have no idea?? And when I am at a table dining I do look at people,, what you just stare at your plate??? How strange?

On our honeymoon 20 yrs ago,, we took a cruise. We sat at a table with 3 other honeymooning couples. All Americans. All very nice, socail,educated, charming, etc.. but when they started to eat,, we were surprised,, one of the sweetest ladies held her knife in her FIST and "sawed" at the meat,, and they all passed their forks around back and forth,, we were young, we had never really seen that ,, my husbands family was German and Canadian, mine French and Canadain,, so we had both been taught Europeon table customs.

It doesn't bother me at all now,, I am just saying it does look very different.I bet we all do things other countries citizens find strange. Not good or bad, just strange or different.. its the fun of it all.

haha. Never meant to start an arguement by bringing it up. Eat the way you like, just be aware of the difference. Try out the European style. You may like it!

Pat, with all due respect, it's not necessary to instruct what the topic is about. I was responding mainly to Kaarina's post, which you should read clearly if you think this post is simply about "differences" between people. Similar to the topic of whether or not the donning of shorts is appropriate, there are hordes of people who would purport to "point out differences" in people when in fact it seems to be a passive-aggressive way of pointing out that there is a right way and a wrong way. You yourself provide an example of what you consider strange table manners on the part of some Americans, but given the benefit of time you state it "doesn't bother me at all now" leading to the conclusion it did bother you at the time. So to claim you were simply noting the difference at the time without being judgmental is disingenuous. Kaarina noted the "weird table manners" we Americans have and then instructs us to eat differently if we don't want to look like a tourist, as if disguising ourselves as locals is of the highest priority when on vacation. So you see, there was no reason for you to get on your high horse and my point was the world would be a lot better place if people would just stay out of other people's mix.

Per kaarina, "If you do not want to look like a tourist, watch the way locals eat and try and emulate it."

Does kaarina follow her own advice & eat as the locals do - American style when she's in the US?

This thread is a little off-putting with those who eat European style assuming that those who eat American style are bad mannered & watching them as tho they're animals in a zoo. I think we should eat the way we were taught to eat. Trying to use a knife & fork in a way that's not comfortable is slightly crazy. As for trying so hard to not look like a tourist, I AM a tourist from another country that does some things differently. What's wrong with that.

Neil anything you haven't seen before can easily be deemed "weird". Once you see it enough you then realize it is just different not wierd. I was young and had never seen Americans eat.. so it was very different to me,Kaarinas mom was foriegn , probaly her first time in America, things we accept as normal can be shocking to others.. surprising,, she was raised that what she saw seemed like very bad manners,, she likely soon learned it was "normal " here in North America. You felt Kaarinas mother "deserved the disgust catergory" whatever that meant, but it sounded rather over defensive.

People from around the world think certain things we do as Canadains ,, are weird,, and same with you Ameicans,, get over it and laugh,,its mostly funny.

I agree, Rose.

I think that the differences in Culture, Etiquette, and Manners should be something that travelers find fascinating, not "disgusting". We shouldn't try to totally change our ways, but we should be open to observing differences in other's cultures and embracing it to an extent. That is what travel is about...why else do we travel? To tramp along in someone else's country and smirk at what they are accustomed to?

I don't understand what the big deal is. European and American style are just that...styles. We grew up eating certain ways. It can be fun to talk about the differences with people you meet along the way...just have a good attitude and be respectful, and you'll go far, I promise.

:::steps off soapbox:::

Hey, I didn't mean anyone to be offended! I was just pointing it out, since I have noticed that some people do not want to be sticking out in Europe too much.

Yes, I still do eat the way I was raised. It is natural for me and my American husband also adopted it, because he noticed how convenient it was not to change hands with the utencils. I also have a friend, who is French by origin, and she told me that she once attended a dinner party here and the gentleman next to her was making comments about the "weird" way that she ate. I know that I am an oddball here using a knife and fork when eating my pizza.

I am pleased to learn the reason for the different table manners here. I always wondered about it. I also have a friend who is Australian and she eats the Euro way also.

!!!!!!!
It is NOT about right or wrong,
about sticking out or fitting in,
about whose customs are better or worse,
about civilized vs. barbaric,
about Europe vs. USA!

It is about respect and understanding.
Is it so wrong to inform yourself a little about local customs? Is it so bad to adjust a little while visiting another country?

Nobody is asking you to 'turn native' once in Europe, or God forbid, decry your American habits. I couldn't point to a single European expecting you to be fluent in all local customs or eating habits, or speak the language perfectly, or wear what we wear, or blend in so perfectly that you won't be recognized as a tourist.

Be American! Be a tourist! Chuckle about the little embarrassing moments, about the subtle, and not so subtle, cultural differences! Just bring a little heaping of respect with you, and a tiny bit of knowledge about the local culture, and all will be well!!
Bring an open mind, and HAVE FUN!
Go ahead, wear jeans, wear cappies, wear sneakers, and eat with your left hand, it's okay!!!

Europe is so fantastic, so colorful, so different - just open up your hearts and enjoy!

Do try to avoid telling the locals, and or your local guide that you pay for his/her health-care, vacation and lavish life-style with your taxes and investment in military protection, and do keep in mind that you are not visiting Disney Land, but that the churches you enter, are still being worshipped in, the cultural monuments and marvelous buildings are still being used and lived in, and all will be well.

You also do not need to know the entire history of the respective country/culture you are visiting, but it would be nice to have a general idea.

sorry to be so touchy today, but I had a VERY difficult American group today. Let's just say I was in tears afterwards, and leave it at that.

Corrina...I hear what you have to say. I used to be a tour director and had many "foreign" groups in the U.S.

What you say about Americans visiting your country is also true of Non-Americans visiting the U.S.

It would be nice if some of them learned about our culture and way of doing things and not complain because we do things differently.

It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's a matter of cultural differences.

So, here are a few things to note for our foreign friends before coming to the U.S. (And by the way, these are all answer to real complaints and questions I got from non-Americans visiting the U.S. ):

1) We do not generally butter our bread when making a sandwich. If you want butter, ask for it.

2) Yes, our money is all the same size and color. It is not confusing to us. We do it to confuse you.

3) There is no need to yell at the waitress in the sit down restaurant who just re-filled your coffee cup. She will not charge you extra. Refills are free.

4) We are not our government or our TV shows. Please judge us an individuals.

5) You will not need change to go to the toilet.

6) I'm not lying when I say the supermarket is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

7)Most Americans do not carry guns.

8)No, not all the women in California look like the women on Baywatch. (That was big in the 90's.)

Visiting another country is about experiencing their culture and customs--not to criticize them, mock them or argue about them. And sometimes it may be different than you do at home. If you want it like it is at home, stay home.

Rudeness, by the way, is universal. Americans have not cornered the market on it.

Re Steve's reply of 10/7, many shops/stores have a small, shallow plate on the counter near the cash register. Place your money there, not in the clerk's hand (which probably won't be held out anyway); your change, if any, will be placed there for you to retrieve.

Bill: regarding gifts to take to Germany at Christmas. Why not take something local from your state (GA). Pecans, peach jam, peanuts, Sea Island cotton goods, etc would be special plus useful.

I would take some "Made in America" --- I'm from Oregon and I take Pendleton woolen items.

When I travel, I try to take something from my area as a gift. I just returned from Ireland and England. I took gifts of dried michigan cherries, and artesian made cherry scented soaps. No problem in customs with the cherries. If you are from Georgia, why not take a small bag of pecans or peach jam. It doesn't have to be huge in size. Or a local church cookbook- they have some really good local recipes in them.And I do have a few german language cookbooks that I use. Scented talcum powder, a scarf, simmering popouri- be creative. The ped egg- not a good idea, too personal

Hmmmm -- after reading all the more recent comments, I had to go back to the beginning to remember what the original thread of this discussion line was supposed to be about.

I remember the first times I traveled to Europe and had to either pay to open the toilet doors, or leave some money for the ladies at the washroom doors. The first few times I was a little peaved, but after experiencing some horrendously foul toilets that were free, I now am very happy to provide a fee for clean and orderly toilets.

A nice custom, on the theme of saying hello to store clerks, is saying "good morning" or "good bye" to fellow guests in the breakfast rooms of small gasthaus' in Germany and Austria. Everyone greets each other as they either arrive or leave -- a wonderful way to feel at home and part of the "family". Great way to strike up conversations, too.

But I don't greet people at the Holiday Inn Express Breakfast bar in the US, so why would I want to do that in Europe? (Just Kidding!!! Actually I try, IF I can make eye contact.)

I'm quite amazed--or maybe dismayed--at how volatile/upset/harsh some posters on this site become. I used to think that people here would travel the "Rick Steves way" and want to experience a wee bit of European culture. Trying to eat with knife and fork in hand (or using chopsticks when we order Chinese at home)all adds to the experience for me--the experience of something different than what I'm used to.

Back to the original topic--I remember carefully watching the German way of buying produce in the grocery store (plastic glove and then pricing it on the scale ourselves). That was half the fun!

I have another interesting custom (practice?) to share. In Germany, Austria and France, grocery stores seldom provide plastic or paper grocery bags for your purchases. Shoppers either have a cloth bag or wicker basket with them, or they take the paid items in the grocery cart to their car, and place their items in bins or boxes in the trunk. Many of the European countries are much farther ahead of North America in reducing their dependance on plastic. Some of our stores are starting to do that too, but it is slow.

If you don't care to oder bottled water in an Italian restuarant, ask for acqua di rubinetto NOT, as I did , acqua di gabinetto. The former means water from the tap, the latter? water from the bathroom. It did get a good laugh from the waiter and the entire staff. (apologies for Italian spelling)

Susan Emily,

It's not just about getting rid of the plastic bags, it's about saving money as well, or even more about that. I didn't really see paper bags in Europe, so if they want to stop using the plastic bags, they should have paper bags available. Europeans are not big spenders like Americans.They look at any cent they spend and try to save money.