Lessons Learned - Tour vs Independent Traveler

lindanjim,

i dont think your post is a rant but an account of what you observed and were treated and how the system works. Im sure if you ask the other people in the that group, you would get a different perspective. I wonder if those that decided to make it a party at night would remember what transpired after the tour.

To me sometimes you have to find out what its like to make a decision on if you will do it again. Im sure there are many others that have had good results and some that will say worse. But to me thats life and how it goes in alot of things.

im sure when you make your own trip and go back to those places you will be chuckling about how you experienced it the first time.

happy trails.

Lindanjim-
This doesn't sound like a rant at all! You are just telling us how you felt about your trip. And figuring out travel preferences is trial and error for everyone. You had a positive first experience and want to keep traveling. Sounds like a win to me.

Your stories about the different families were cracking me up. My family would be the boxed wine family.

Thank you, Ray. Chuckling indeed, as we are right now, recalling some of the more bizarre moments of our trip. It has already offered us any number of stories we will remember for years to come. Can't wait to be able to say "Remember when..........." on our subsequent trips that are already in the planning stages.

The best things of this trip is that you have to start somewhere and somehow to find out what you really want. And I think a whirlwind tour as an introduction to Europe is not bad at all. You take lessons out of it for future use by making a balance, to improve the next trip, that’s very sensible. Even if the impression is superficial, it helps to find out what you want.
Maybe after a few years of travelling experience you think back about this trip with a sense of humor and put it in perspective: It was not a perfect start, but enjoyed it nevertheless, thanks to it we can travel now the way we want because we learned from it.

I enjoyed your report and would like to hear more about these families! Why are they traveling at all? You can get drunk in your own home for a lot cheaper than the cost of an international trip!

Many posters on this site enjoy planning trips - it's half the fun. Your mention of being forced to stick to the tour schedule is perhaps the biggest turnoff to me about organized trips. The expense of organized tours is another mark against them for me.

You are the author of the "What If?" post from earlier in the year which generated quite a bit of discussion. At that point, you seemed concerned about scams and theft. Would you mind on reporting on your experiences in that regard? Curious minds would like to know.

Your post reminds me of the one tour I took, especially the interesting personalities of other tour members, the drive by visits and the forced sales pitch attendance. Still, my tour was a fun trip that made me want to go back to Europe again and again and again... Only now always independently.

Your post reminded me of our first trip -- we endured a number of city tours which included "shopping stops" at the tour guide's cousin's friend's store (or so it seemed) including the Amsterdam diamond tour. Ever after that, our catch-phrase for each other when visiting a new place on our own was "do not lose your English-speaking guide!"

Thanks, Linda for your detailed and personal report! As great as Europe is, your own positive attitude goes a long way toward making a good experience. I feel your pain at visiting a diamond factory instead of a world-class museum. I understand that bus driver breaks are mandated every two hours by EU law, so you'll probably never avoid that particular feature of the bus tour. You might enjoy Rick's article on Bus Tour Self-Defence. Now that you've "caught the bug," I wish you many years to come of rewarding, independent travel, making your own plans, mistakes, and unique discoveries.

Emily brings up a great point, especially considering the related thread "Skewed perception/mistaken for a mugger" that is generating a lot of discussion now.

I just don't think I'm up to dealing with a bus-full of people, let alone children, day in, day out. My first int'l trip was to London and since I was a newbie at logistics outside the city I felt better about taking a guided day tour of Stonehenge, Windsor and Oxford, which allowed about 2 hours at Windsor--that was great--and just 45 min at the other two; for Stonehenge that was more than enough, for Oxford, it was a horrible tease, I will definitely be going back and spending more time there. Now I know enough to plan my own trips using trains and buses and I can do whatever I want for as long as I want. I think you learned a lot from this trip and now you know exactly where you want to spend a few days at your leisure next time.

All tours aren't that bad. RS tours:

*do not include shopping stops and are not shopping oriented in any way,

*do include major cultural sites,

*have engaged, knowledgeable, caring tour guides and local guides,

*have small groups which means you have a half full bus, more room for each person.

*have lots of satisfied return customers, and many who travel independently at least part of the time.

I don't know if RS has an age limit for it's non-family tours but I haven't run across such a loud and colorful group as you describe on an RS tour.

Glad you enjoyed the experience and that you're going back on your own.

I heard from friends on very low cost tours (to China) that the tour operator had MANDATORY shopping experiences. When a person felt ill and could not/would not go on a shopping experience, they were fined and had to pay an extra charge for not going.

We have traveled a lot in Europe independently, but did take a tour of China. It included shopping stops that I could have lived without but nobody was fined for not spending! There were 31 of us in the group, and 30 of us really enjoyed each other's company. The 31st... well you just wouldn't believe her. I could spend hours telling you stories but I can sum her up with one story -- she told one of our local guides (Chinese) that she disliked Asians. Other negatives were the pace of the tour and that every moment was scheduled (zero free time until Hong Kong).

Positives were a terrific tour guide who was so invested in us having a good time and trying to explain the culture. He was born in China, and came to Canada age 17 (and 27 at time of tour), so he really could bridge the cultural gap. We lucked out getting him! Also the company is Canadian. This proved important because anytime anyone asked a sensitive question, the local guides would first ask if there were Americans on the bus before they would answer " oh, all Canadian, ok here's the answer..." I don't mention this to offend the Americans on this board but just to relate a fact. We heard that comment many times.

The China tour turned out to be one of our best trips! Yet I'm still not sure if I'd do it again. I do love to plan and enjoy a trip completely my way.

I took 3 guided tours last year. One was Rick's Heart of Italy and the other 2 were back to back Road Scholar tours of London and Wales. I enjoyed Rick's tour the most. There was quite a bit of free time and the guide, Trina, was just awesome. Everyone on the tour was interesting, well educated and some were very well-traveled. The Road Scholar tours, one guide was knowledgeable but boring but the other one was a university prof who was absolutely amazing. As you might expect, the groups on the Road Scholar tours were not as energetic as the Rick Steves group but there were only 2 people out of both Road Scholar groups that I tried to avoid.

I purposely picked these groups because both advertise and adhere to no shopping, no tips, and the other things Grier listed above. I also did some independent time in UK, but what I really enjoyed in all 3 tours was the level of knowledge about the sights that all guides were able to provide. I learned SO much about history, geography, political systems, culture, art, and architecture (to name a few) and it really enriched my experience. I wish I had taken notes. BTW, with both groups, unless you are moving from one destination to another, anyone can opt out of any activity and explore on their own.

For now, I am sticking to Rick's tours as an adjunct to independent travel. I like the energy level those tours have but I will save the Road Scholar tours for down the line when I can't keep up with Rick. Headed for Ireland soon and then the 21 day Classic in the Fall.

lindanjim

Not a sales pitch, but if you eliminated the negatives, you would have had a good time, right? I have traveled mostly independently for years, but we took an RS tour in 2012, and will again this year. It was nothing like what you described, and we saw and learned much more than we would have on our own, because of the experienced tour guide, and the well-paced schedule. So that's now our preferred way to go, unless I have a specific itinerary I want to follow, or someplace not covered by them.

Hi Lindanjim,

The story of the family with the kids - the parents/guardians are 100% responsible. I am not sure what you mean that the parents expected others to take care of the kids while they had their fun.

Do you mean the grandparents and/or cousins were expected to babysit the kids while the parents played? Or, do you mean that in addition, the parents expected other travelers to pitch in too? If so, the parents took advantage. People traveling can be helpful, to a point, but ultimately they are solely responsible for themselves and/or family.

As far as the unruly people who drank too much wine -a shame some cannot be respectful of their surroundings.

It was up to the guide(s) and bus driver to set the rules. If they did not exercise some control, so to speak, maybe some took liberty with the upper hand. When there is a group, be it two, three or 40 travelers, it is about respect, courtesy and boundaries. Some people do not get that.

Wasn't there a way that you could have changed your bus seats or just distance yourself from those people as much as possible? It seems like you had a pretty good time except the few hiccups.

Thank you all for the contributions to this thread. I'm pretty sure there are others like this one, but this one is ours and only pertains to our experience:

Emily referenced an earlier thread we started about "What If..." and asked for a follow up. I want to say, here and now that never ONCE, did we feel threatened, intimidated, coerced, scared or in any way uncomfortable around others, When we were in Amsterdam, we needed some cash, and Jim was using the ATM we found there near the RLD. It was about 10pm. I covered Jim as he withdrew the maximum (250E). When he turned around with the cash in his hand (hadn't transferred it yet), he literally bumped into 6 younger men who were walking down the sidewalk. Two of them apologized for being clumsy, we all laughed and they moved on. That experience was as close as we came to having an unfortunate experience. The lesson we learned was that if we PAID ATTENTION to our surroundings, and didn't do anything too stupid, we would be fine. And so it was.

Thanks again for all the contributions. We will look forward to reading them all again.

lindanjim,

Thanks for posting such a concise analysis of your trip experiences. It was interesting reading.

Just for comparison, you might consider trying a RS tour, either the fully guided versions of the newer "My Way" tours (which would provide you with more choices to see only the sights that interest you). I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the RS tour vs. the one you took this time.

As someone else mentioned, the Coach Drivers are mandated to take breaks at specified intervals, and they have to follow the rules or face severe consequences. There are data loggers on all Buses which either report in "real time" or have to be downloaded each night. The driver breaks usually coincide nicely with the group needing a rest stop or snack break, so that all seems to work well.

We have always traveled independently; but being a bit daunted by the language and cultural differences of Turkey, we decided on a tour. Like Linda, we found both good and bad.

Good: We were most worried about the people, which proved to be no issue. There was one obnoxious guy, but it was pretty easy to avoid spending a lot of time in his orbit. The others were great.
Our guide was superb. He gave us information we would never have found on our own, tended to everyone's needs (a couple of us experienced significant health issues), and was helpful and good-humored throughout.
We visited one major site, The Museum of Anatolian Civilizations in Ankara, that we wouldn't have included on our own. A highlight of the trip.
Bad: One of the hotels was so bad, it could have been a setting for an episode of Fawlty Towers.
Our time was not our own. E.g., We spent half a day at the WWI site and adjacent cemetery of Gallipoli. Boring waste of time. Not very meaningful to Americans, since that battle predated the entry of the U.S. into the war. Another time, we took a day tour of Paestum, because the transportation from Sorrento is so cumbersome. I would have preferred a longer time in the museum, there. IMO, this is the most significant drawback to a tour.
Bottom line: When I hear of friends' discussions of tours, my gut reaction is that I'm not eager to go on another.

Thanks for posting the trip report. It was humorous, and affirming. So very glad you had a good time, and even gladder that you will attempt it independently next time. I find that researching/planning the trip myself adds a lot of background information, which in turn helps me enjoy the trip more. I love looking at maps and visitor information, so feel that the six-months or so of planning before the trip adds excitement, and the month or so afterward that it takes to make the memory book adds a bit of nostalgia. I suppose one could plan the details of a trip even if they take a tour, which should give the same benefits.

Just curious as to why you didn't hop into one of the museums (even if for thirty minutes) while the diamond tour went on?

I had always traveled independently since going to Europe to study at age 19. I would take day tours, but it just never occurred to me that I should go on a tour. After traveling solo in France a few years ago and struggling to find any one to talk with--yes even the cafes were bastions of people with invisible walls--I decided that my next trip to a non-English speaking location would be with a tour. I chose the Rick Steves Berlin, Prague and Vienna tour. I was really happy with it. I had time to myself; I had time to talk with people; I learned history that I would not have on my own; I didn't have to worry about travel; I still have a couple of Facebook buddies from the trip.

I'll do it again. I did bracket my trip with a week end on each of solo travel. Would want to let those skills get rusty!

Pam

I've taken tours and planned my own trips. Even when I take tours, I usually add extra adventures to the beginning and end of the tour. IMHO neither a tour nor a self-guided trip is better. They both have ups and downs, plus and minus features. Of course, for me, I carefully study the tour offerings and often ask questions of the tour operator. If a tour was in a city and missing a significant site or sites, I wouldn't take the tour. At this stage, having done more self-guided trips than tours, my preference is a tour smack in the center of 2 shorter activities that I have planned. But that is me and how I like to travel. Personally I laugh (internally) at anyone who says there is a right or best way to travel.

The spouse and I have both lived in Europe and have both done independent travel there as well as many cruises. We are also about to take our sixth RS tour. We agree with Grier's comments completely, and think Ken's suggestion about the "my way" tours is a great one. With your travel background one would have to think you have very intelligent, open, and inquisitive minds. Why not satisfy that inquisitiveness by doing at least one RS trip? Why turn down a chance to drive a Buick just because of a bad drive in a Yugo? TC.