Learning Languages

I learn the “politeness words” at minimum. Hello, goodbye, please, thank you, do you speak English, where is, numbers to 10, common foods found in restaurants. I can then look up the word for anything else I need and fill it in basic phrases. The response is usually pointing and words I can figure out by gestures and context.
Listening to a few intro lessons on the language on YouTube gives me a sense of how it sounds.

Obviously being conversant in the language would be great but that’s just not possible in every language. Being polite and creative (you can say a lot with 20 words if you think creatively and don’t get hung up on grammar, and listen for context).

Like Mira, my focus is on greetings, polite phrases, ordering a drink (beer, wine, coffee), getting a table or a check. etc. I do not focus on conversant types of phrases (beyond greetings) and do not worry too much about questions (beyond Yes/No or point me the way) otherwise I would need to understand a random answer.

When I spent more time in Italy, I did build up a vocabulary, I learn little by self study, for me, immersion with native speakers works best, but even then, I would start out speaking in Italian, the respondent would respond, a mile a minute, and lose me, I switch to English or indicate my limitation, they get annoyed and have to repeat in English. Not everyone wanted to become my free Italian tutor, and in some cases, they wanted me to become their free English tutor. Of course language is a skill, if you don't use it, you lose it. Not much call for Italian in my normal day, so I am back to basic greetings, still able to read a menu, and still have my terrible pronunciation and grammar.

I took my multilingual Swiss son-in-law with me to the local Swiss pharmacy to help me in ordering. Son-in-law speaks to lady behind the counter in several languages until they find one that they have in common - English.

I make an effort on German, French and Spanish (to a lesser extent Italian). I don't think I'll ever attempt Polish, Russian, Slovenian, Turkish, Greek, etc.

I took my multilingual Swiss son-in-law with me to the local Swiss
pharmacy to help me in ordering. Son-in-law speaks to lady behind the
counter in several languages until they find one that they have in
common - English.

So a Swiss national could not speak to his local pharmacy in one of the national languages... how did he manage to get through school??? That just does not add up somehow.

When we were in Japan last November on an REI Adventures walking tour, our guide taught us the local word for “thank you” in Kyoto. It sounds like “ 0h- kee - nee” with no accented syllable. Whenever we used it, the recipient gave us a big smile along with the bow. Try r if you are in Kyoto ( but not anywhere else, or you will draw a blank look ).

. . . While I try to learn a little of the local language, and more if I plan to spend a great deal of time in one country, I find just trying to make yourself understood rather than worrying about exact tenses and sentence structure works fine. . . ."

That's the way I approach it too. I'll focus on the most important words and phrases, and keep my eyes and ears open during the trip to pick up words that are common and significant. I am baffled by people who take pride in going through a whole trip only speaking English.

I'm a bit of an outlier here. I love language and languages, and try to learn as much as I can of a country's language before I visit. Of course I'm not fluent in any of them, but I enjoy the learning. We have found that the Pimsleur disks give us a surprising amount of a language, so that's always part of our trip prep.

This is also helpful when reading signs. The inhabitants might all be proficient in English, but most shop signs are in the language of the country. It's handy to know that if you want to buy cheese in Haarlem, look for the kaaswinkel! And a drogheria in Italy is not a drugstore.

Again, this is just me, for my own edification and pleasure. I've told my DH if he ever has to put me in a long term care facility, just to make sure I have plenty of language disks. :-)

Generally I learn the greetings and expressions of politeness and (Do you speak English) in the local language.
I tell my travel companions when I lead trips to learn the same.

My first trip out of the country landed in France in 2002 was so impressed by the level of bilingualism in the tourist industry and help from strangers when I was lost, exposure to Francophone Africans (who come from where my roots lie), lead to a undergraduate degree in French language and literature.

I love learning languages (I've taken classes at home in Spanish, Russian, German, Italian, Portuguese and Modern Greek) but am unfortunately not talented at the spoken part. The time spent planning my long, post-retirement trips means I don't have much time left for trying to resurrect the marginal linguistic skills I had in the past, but a bit does come back when I'm on the ground and am in one country for awhile. I've twice taken 2 weeks of lessons (semi-private in Italian, private in French) at the beginning of a trip. It's an expensive way to use your time in Europe, but it does jump-start the (re)-learning process.

I admit to having been super-lazy about attempting to pick up a bit of Hungarian and I don't think the Scandinavian languages are in my future. Experience has taught me that speaking bad Russian to other Slavs will not necessarily be effective (or appreciated); that doesn't always keep me from trying.

I'm a big fan of charades.

And have you ever felt you should have learned more?

Before my first visit to Sicily, I took a 6 or 8 week Italian night class. I fell back on my limited University French with my cousins. I knew I wanted to go back, so I began studying Italian in San Francisco, working my way through their class levels. When I went back, I was able to hold conversations in Italian.

It's more difficult when a trip takes me to several countries. I have to challenge myself to at least learn the polite words, but even those can be tough.

Like most here, I learn the polite phrases, directional terms, etc. I also love and have had the best results with the Pimsleur cd's. I first try to get them from my local library, but they usually only carry the biggies - French, Spanish, etc. I will be buying the Conversational set for Modern Greek for this trip. This, along with the "X language" in 10 minutes a day type books for the written word are enough to get by on. Becoming fluent in a language is on my retirement bucket list of things to do that I have never had time for :)

Joann, your local library may be able to get the Pimsleur disks for you on InterLibrary loan. I think that's how we got the Dutch disks.

Acraven, having lived and traveled in Eastern Europe in the Cold War days, I can assure you it is never a good idea to speak Russian, bad or otherwise, to folks in other Slavic countries. At least, it wasn't then, and I doubt that it is now.

Jim - I think it was the lady behind the counter who agreed on English. Son in law speaks French, German, Italian, English, and reads several languages including Hebrew. Graduated from University of Lausanne quite impressively.

But yes, English was their language of choice.

I think you're right in most cases, Jane, but sometimes desperate measures are called for when there's no helpful kid around and you're face-to-face with a ticket seller who has absolutely no experience communicating with linguistically-challenged foreigners. I think a lot of the time the folks I'm trying to converse with think I'm an uncommonly stupid person butchering their language beyond recognition.

I had an uncomfortable experience in a Dutch cheese shop in 1972 when I trotted out a few words of German. The shopkeeper didn't say a word; he just looked right through me. I realized very quickly that he was old enough to remember the war years. I don't know whether he took me for a German and objected to me on that basis (though I was only 20 years old) or was reacting to the cluelessness of a visitor who chose to use German in his country; I wouldn't think my one sentence of German would have convinced anyone familiar with that language that I was a native speaker. In any case, as soon as I switched to English I got my cheese.

It would be virtually impossible to learn the languages and regional versions of each country in Europe, so I tend to use the same method that many others have mentioned in this thread. I try to learn the "essential" words and phrases of each country I visit, and also try to get some idea of the replies I might get to those words. When dealing with locals, I try to start with the local words but find that they usually reply in English. Many of those involved with tourists are able to speak English well, sometimes fluently. That's especially true in the Netherlands and a few other countries.

I find some languages to be easier for me to learn than others. Canadians have a lot of exposure to French given that it's one of our two official languages and I'm certainly not fluent but know many of the basic words (although I didn't do well in Grade 9 French). I was strongly attracted to Italian because of my family history so have focused most of my studies on that, but not sure if I'll ever have the opportunity to become fluent. Getting the pronunciation right is the biggest challenge.

I've found the eastern European languages the most difficult to learn. I was able to get by in Poland, although there were a few challenging moments. Anyone that says "all the kids speak English" obviously hasn't been to some smaller cities in Poland. I used to work with a Hungarian colleague and he tried to teach me something of the language and that's the most difficult one I've encountered so far.

I applaud any attempt to learn other languages! Learning other languages really is beneficial in so many ways. And even you're not aiming at becoming fluent, learning a little is a lot better than not learning anything at all. Personally I can recommend Duolingo, it is not the best way but it is pretty good. And it's free.

Learning politeness words, greeting and simple questions are great. But don't forget words that are likely to appear on signs. Being able to read signs makes travel a lot easier. I.e. what are the local words for exit, entrance, closed, railway station, pharmacy etc.

Experience has taught me that speaking bad Russian to other Slavs will
not necessarily be effective (or appreciated); that doesn't always
keep me from trying.

Yes, there are languages that can make you persona non grata in some situations. And russian might not be a good language in many countries as it is seen by some as the language of an occupying power. Also, speaking finnish in Åland will not make you popular.

I've found the eastern European languages the most difficult to learn.
I was able to get by in Poland, although there were a few challenging
moments. Anyone that says "all the kids speak English"

If you by the eastern European languages mean the slavic languages, they are certainly harder. But if you want a real challenge, try learning Basque :) However, the germanic languages are probably the easiest to learn for english speakers. And yes, Finno-ugric are probably among the trickier European languages.

I found modern Greek harder than Russian. At least in Russian if you hear a word, you're well on the way to being able to spell it. In modern Greek, the sound alone won't necessarily get you there.

Since I know I am not so linguistically adept, I focus my efforts on learning, relearning, massive reviewing, perfecting just two languages...German and French, ie, speaking, reading, writing...true, a daunting task but it pays off when you're over there.

"...should have learned more?" Always. My take: You cannot overlearn in the foreign language until you develop the facility to flip back and forth with instant on target as much as possible translations, even when it pertains to idioms and expressions.

Since I’m language tone deaf, I struggled to learn 15 polite Italians words last year. I’m sure it was often laughable from the Italians’ point of view. But we always found a bathroom, even in non-English speaking Mongrassano, Calabria.

I’m looking forward to next year’s tour but don’t know if it will be German speaking countries or French. Today I started listening to YouTube Tourist French, including RS French for Tourists. I hope my 52 year old high school German makes German easier. It’s going to take time for me to learn French pronunciations.

Regardless of which, I am determined to learn the basic polite words. It just takes this little old brain longer to figure it out.

@ Jane - thanks - I just looked online and they have the audio disks 2 towns over. I'll head over after April 15th!

Acraven, that's what's kept me from signing up for a Greece tour! Although I'm weakening...

Joann, you're welcome. It's amazing how many resources there are at the public library. I just checked the catalogue at our closest big library system to be sure they had the German Pimsleur disks I'm going to need for next year.

Oh, don't let the language stop you from going to Greece. The Greeks have been welcoming travelers for centuries. They cope extremely well. A lot of signs are transliterated into English [or at least into our alphabet]. I believe that was the case even with the destination indicators on town-to-town buses.

I haven't tried to speak Greek in decades, but as I recall, pronunciation itself wasn't much of a challenge. It doesn't have the odd vowel sounds that trip me up in French or the strings of consonants (vsk...) that can be a challenge in Russian. For folks worried mainly about basic conversation, it's more the complex grammar that makes Greek hard, and that's semi-avoidable by speaking in incomplete sentences: "Good morning. The port?" I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to learn to say the basics.

I have a subscription to Babbel. I used to have a near photographic memory, but alas, I had almost no foreign language instruction in high school or college. In High School I didn't have time in the day to take all of the science and music courses plus foreign language and in college I was in a fast paced science program. So, I missed the best opportunities to get my brain prepared for other languages, although the Greek and Latin base words were helpful. Now, my short term memory is leaving me a little more each year.

However, I do spend some time on Babbel each week and I change the language to whatever trip I have coming up next. Before my Scandinavia tour, I focused on Swedish. I really fell in love with this language. Everyone in Sweden seems to speak English, I never got to full conversation level. But, as Badger mentioned above, being able to read signs was very helpful. Also, using some polite words did reward me with some smiles. These words also worked in Denmark and Norway. I watch a lot of Scandinavian TV/film and I love it when I recognize some words that I hear.

Before my Italy trip, it was harder for me to to focus on Italian. Italy is just not the country or language for me.

I also fell in love with Turkish. Turks seem to be more willing to slow down and listen to one's language attempts than Italians. I got many surprised and delighted faces in Turkey. Several times a Turk would completely stop what they were doing and give me their undivided attention and encourage me to speak more. This was one of the highlights of my trip. Again, it also helped a lot with reading signs.

Paris is next. I must say that French scares me. I guess it is more the pronunciation than the vocabulary. My husband had 4 years of college French so I am always saying to him "please say for me _________." I am getting much better at knowing which letters to vocalize and which not to. The vocabulary is coming quickly just because of the huge French influence on English. I am also watching many French language TV/film with subtitles. This helps in learning the cadence of the language.

Anyways, dipping into the language is definitely part of the experience for me. It doesn't really make my travel easier, but it makes it a lot more enjoyable.

I have always made a point of learning at least the basic words of politeness for any country's language. Hello. Goodbye. Please. Thank you. Where is...? How much...?

One of my problems is that I arrive somewhere and then mix up every phrase I've ever learned in every, single language. I might start out in Italian. Then there will be a little German, some French, etc., etc,. etc.

Right now I'm hoping to visit a Spanish speaking country next. I've been working hard on my Spanish language skills. I'm great on the app I'm using. Once I get there...? Heaven only knows.

Knowing that in advance, I have several language apps on my phone. I download the language I know I'll need before I arrive. That way I can usually do the bare minimum and smile with embarrassment at not knowing any more than I do.

@ Jane...bravo on your attitude towards languages....my compliments.

Thanks, Fred!

@ Jane....I go by two primary driving thoughts/maxims on pursuing foreign language study. ... .one cannot over learn, ie the more you plug away, hammer away at it, the better you become not only in speaking but writing and reading as well. All three skills have to be developed.

Use whichever method (tech or non-tech or both) that gives you the best language foundation which will pay off linguistically so that you will start dreaming in the language.

Fred, some years ago when we were planning a trip to Spain, I got into the habit of keeping a mini-journal in Spanish. It was a great help, forcing me to construct simple but meaningful and understandable sentences in the language. I think I followed that up the next year with Italian.

And I recently reminded myself that it's time to do that again. Italy is up again this year, so I'll start today, writing just a paragraph about my day. It'll be a great review, and reinforce what I know.

I can learn languages (at a low, but useful level) fairly easily, but need a lot of review between trips, as I tend to lose whatever skills I had gained. And I regret that I've never been able to switch on the fly between (among) more that two tongues, one of them always being English.

I also suggest you add listening and comprehending to your list of skills. That's why I like using disks or apps in addition to books - I can learn a lot of grammar from a book, but that doesn't help much when trying to understand what someone is saying. I've recently discovered the Radiolingua series, thanks to one of my Forum friends. I've been doing "Coffee Break Italian" for the last couple of months, and it's really helped my comprehension. I'm using the free version, but my friend is using the more comprehensive pay version, and says it's worth the money.

Before my Scandinavia tour, I focused on Swedish. I really fell in
love with this language. Everyone in Sweden seems to speak English, I
never got to full conversation level.

Hör av dig om du har vägarna förbi Sverige igen så ska vi nog kunna åtgärda det!

These words also worked in Denmark and Norway. I watch a lot of
Scandinavian TV/film and I love it when I recognize some words that I
hear.

The Scandinavian languages form a dialect continuum so the languages are more or less mutually intelligible. (Ex: Danish musician Kim Larsen and Swedish musician Mats Ronander being interviewed on Norwegian TV: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5cyhu8 )

And I think I forget the most important thing to remember when learning languages: Be brave! And don't be afraid to make mistakes.

Badger, thanks for sharing the video. Very interesting.

It did remind me of this classic about the Danish language ; )

I speak German and French (from living overseas) and some "random" other languages such as Korean and Latin. I'm studying Spanish now (living in California, it is a no-brainer, and I can experience full immersion just at the local Mexican market!), so with these languages I feel confident to travel independently in much of the world. But when visiting a country such as Hungary, I make sure to learn "politeness"/"survival" words as mentioned above – please, thank you, excuse me, how much, basic numbers, toilet, exit, entrance, open, closed, etc. On my first trip to Paris at age 22 I had no idea if the word "SORTIE" meant EXIT or DANGER (although the English cognate should have been a clue!). At age 21 as a student in Vienna I spent a weekend in communist Hungary without a phrasebook – not sure what I was thinking : )
Well, people would grudgingly speak German with us; they didn't know much English back then.

Thanks Badger!
In 2017 there was a Swedish phone number you could call that would connect you to volunteers. They would speak Swedish to you so you could practice. I was to chicken to call thinking I didn't know enough. I wish I would have been braver.
If they still have the number before I go back I will definitely call.

vandrabrud, I love that idea! No matter how well I speak a language, I'm always very uncomfortable speaking it on the phone. I will go to great lengths to avoid phone conversations in any language other than English.

Practicing with willing but anonymous volunteers would help. Plus, it would be a way to practice with actual native speakers, getting immediate feedback.

No matter how well I speak a language, I'm always very uncomfortable
speaking it on the phone. I will go to great lengths to avoid phone
conversations in any language other than English.

I am quite comfortable with a large variety of everyday interactions in French (including chatting with bartenders or new people I've met, or working out the complicated details of a department store loyalty program as happened to me once!) but I find phone conversations to be inordinately difficult, even for simple things like making restaurant reservations.

I think it's the lack of face-to-face interaction and thus nonverbal cues, the often poor voice quality especially if you're using some sort of Internet phone service, and the fact that tourists are rarely calling private individuals but institutions with lots of background noise (restaurants, hotels, stores).

Andrew, you nailed it.

"...uncomfortable speaking on the phone." True and quite understandable.

When I do call up to make the hotel room reservations in Germany, I speak only the German, not English, admittedly it can be hard catching the quick German being said (seems at a rapid pace.)

It all depends on your interlocutor, as well as cutting through his/her accent...initially.

Maybe this makes me an "ugly American" - if so, so be it. But in my experience, I find that using the "politeness words" in a language that I otherwise don't speak at all just creates a lot of unnecessary awkwardness.

If I greet someone in the local language, they'll generally assume, not unreasonably, that I'm prepared to converse in that language. When it comes to light, five seconds later, that I'm not, there's then the question of what language they should use instead. (They may know that they speak perfect English, but they don't automatically know that I speak English.) But if I greet them from the start with "hello," that tells them straight away that I'm an English speaker, and it's just easier all around. (Notably, my travels so far have taken me mostly to places where most people do speak some English. If I were going someplace where that wasn't the case, I'd take a different approach.)

In languages like German and Italian, where I can make myself understood well enough to complete simple transactions, but not hold complicated conversations, I find that the most useful "politeness phrase" is "I'm sorry, my (language) isn't very good." That often works better than "Do you speak English?", because it gives the (store clerk, waiter, train conductor, random person approaching me on the street) the option of switching to English, speaking more slowly and simply, or just leaving me alone if what they had to say wasn't very important. I've gotten all three responses in approximately equal numbers.

But in languages like Slovene, Danish, or Icelandic, that I'm not reasonably going to become proficient enough in to handle even simple exchanges, I'd rather just establish as expediently as possible that I need to converse in English.

kh,
It is my experience that they figure out pretty quickly that I don't really speak their language. If they do say something back to me that I can't understand, I say in English, "sorry, that was about all of my {language} in one sentence". I do like your approach of saying in {language} that you don't speak it well. Not so much in Italy, but in all of the other countries I have been to, I have received smiles of appreciation for trying, without any undue awkwardness.

Badger, thanks for sharing the video. Very interesting. It did remind
me of this classic about the Danish language ; )

That is certainly a classic! But I hadn't expected it to be popular outside Scandinavia.

In 2017 there was a Swedish phone number you could call that would
connect you to volunteers. They would speak Swedish to you so you
could practice. I was to chicken to call thinking I didn't know
enough. I wish I would have been braver. If they still have the number
before I go back I will definitely call.

That was certainly a pretty good campaign. But be brave! In the meantime, you can enjoy some Swedish music, or some other Swedish music, or maybe one of the biggest Swedish bands?

The trick to learning a language is to use it as often as you can. Well, just about every European under the age of 30 has learned or is learning English. I want to help them so I speak English so they can practice.

3 Languages = Trilingual
2 Languages = Bilingual
1 Language = American