Lack of PIN number for US credit cards.

Back in the day when more of us could travel it was discussed often on the travel forum. It’s a real problem and embarrassment that our banking cc systems are so far behind.

We are currently traveling in Germany and not all pay point machines are set up for contactless pay.

Hmmm, I have a Chase Sapphire card and just received my PIN number by mail this week. Our Bank Of America card was used many times on our recent trip to France, it also has a PIN. So, I guess I don’t know why you can’t get a PIN.

We just spent 3+ weeks in France and didn’t have any problems not having a pin, but we did use the contactless feature on the card. At a couple of places I had to sign, but no problem with train tickets.

Andrea there has been tons of discussion on the subject here on this forum over the years. But its just an issue for travelers, a minority of card customers, so not much pressure for change.

Most American CCs are set up to use PINs only for cash withdrawals (from ATMs). I have PINs for both my cards, but I did have to request them from the card providers. But when you talk to the card people about needing a PIN, they (being mostly untraveled themselves) don't understand the concept of using PINs in other countries for any transactions other than cash withdrawals. Or they are reading from a basic "customer in the US" script.

As of last week, Chase have started advertising their cards in the UK. Obviously the computer systems will be different but there’s no way their computer systems can’t provide PIN nos - it’s likely to be the lack of experience in the person you spoke to, so I would escalate the issue when you return home so that they sort it out before your next overseas trip.

I have had a Chase card for 20 years and it has always had a 4 digit PIN number. Without a PIN, you would not be able to make a cash withdrawal at an ATM, and they make a lot of money on those transactions (I do NOT make cash withdrawals on any CC, only use a debit card for that).

Do you have an online Chase account? You can request a PIN, but it won't do you any good right now because, for security purposes, they mail the PIN to your home address. Once you have that and activate it, you can change the PIN to a number of your choice. But this is a process you have to deal with well before going abroad, at least 2 weeks ahead of time.

The PIN issue for US based CCs being used abroad at kiosks and machines has been an ongoing discussion on this and every travel forum I have ever visited for years and years. In recent years, my credit cards have all been issued with chips that allow for contactless payment, and it works well in the US. Abroad I have had a lot of success using Apple Pay through my Iphone, another form of contactless payment. When you travel these days, you have to have multiple forms of payment at hand if you plan to use your CC to pay for stuff.

Last summer I got a Chase Visa card. It has no f/c fees and is contactless. It worked everywhere I tried it - train tickets by machine, gas pumps and parking machines. I didn't try it at toll booths, all took cash and gave change.

Couple of comments to help clarify some of the above back and forth...

First, yeah, it has been discussed, but a break due to the pandemic, and the rise of contactless has pushe the topic to the back burner.

Second, yes, lots of US cards 'can" get a PIN, but it is only for cash advance at an ATM, not purchases, this is not the same thing, I would estimate that you can get a Cash Advance PIN for dozens of cards out there, a PIN for purchase for maybe a dozen or two, and a PIN priority (meaning it will require a PIN first) for maybe a half dozen cards, if that. If you travel often a PIN, or PIN priority card is worth seeking out, that is what I did, never, ever, have an issue.

Contactless capabilities gaining traction help, but they do have limits. Usually there is a Dollar limit, something like 100 GBP in the UK and maybe 50 to 100 euro in the EU. OK for snack and many purchases, two highspeed train tickets from a machine? you hit that limit quickly, might have to purchase one at a time, or find a manned counter to sign. As someone mentioned, merchants were quick to get simple contactless terminals, change out of ticket machines, parking slips, tolls, and other devices is much slower to adopt due to cost and retrofit capability.

We recently had that same problem in Germany trying to buy train tickets. The only solution we found is to buy train tickets on the DB Navigator app- no problem.
We found some machines didn't take 20 Euros bills, as [assumption] that would require giving too much change. The machine took 20 Euros bills if the fare was close to that.
Our credit cards without pins worked at all other restaurants, shops, and sights.
Good luck!

Mostly my husband was using his Apple Watch to access his credit card for payment, but I was inserting my credit cards the same as I would at home.

Periscope we currently are able to insert our chip (and swipe) US credit card into many POS devices at grocery stores in Germany but not all. And the one that wouldn’t accept our chip didn’t have a tap option at their device. It’s all true and current. And our neighborhood restaurant only accepts cash or European cc. We just tried to pay for a meal with friends there last week and we needed to pay cash as we didn’t have any card that was accepted. It really varies and it would be good to recognize this as people have different experiences. And like you said YMMV.

My experience deals with getting a train ticket in Germany from a DB machine and paying with a credit card, which I used at times, other times I just used cash. It is true you do need to punch in your PIN otherwise the transaction won't go through.

The DB machine shows on the little screen "PIN eingeben" which I was a bit hesitant indicating the first time but did it anyway. It worked. Whether I need a PIN here or not, I get it anyway when applying for the particular credit card.

The other way to get around this is to open a travel savings account and use a debit card. I normally never use a debit card to purchase things, but these cards work in unattended machines in Europe. Because I don't want my main savings account compromised, I have a Capital one 360 savings account with a MasterCard debit card. I keep enough money in there to use during travel. The has worked at gas stations in Iceland and train machines in Sweden and Italy.

My Chase card has a pin as does my other visa. My travel partner called Chase yesterday to get her pin set up so I don't know who you contacted at Chase but please try again. In most situations I've encountered if my credit card doesn't work I use my debit card.

I've never had or seen a credit card inserted into a POS machine that didn't require a PIN to authorize it either at home or abroad ... interesting, and those transactions didn't require a signature, either?

Yes, a signature is required. The card, with chip, is inserted into the POS machine. It alerts the merchant that a signature is required. I have never had a merchant flinch at this.

PINS for U.S. cards are almost always for cash withdrawals and not purchases. Some cards won't work in some ticket machines but others will.

There are a few ways around this:

--get a card from a different bank.

--get contactless cards

--set up Apple Pay or Google Pay.

U.S. credit card issuers are bypassing the need for a PIN in favor of contactless.

Any credit card company should be glad to give you a PIN you can use to get cash advances (don't do that!). There have been some reports that those PINs work in point-of-sale terminals that demand PINs; using them that way shouldn't/doesn't result in a cash-advance fee. I've never needed to go that route (just one aborted transaction in 22 months of travel), but things change. Maybe this is the year attempting to use my chipped card will result in PIN demands in Europe. I'm going to get a (cash-advance) PIN for each credit card, just in case.

My credit cad wouldn't work in the transit machines at the metro stations in Washington, D.C. It worked perfectly everywhere else. Fortunately, I was already carrying my set of cards for international travel, so I just pulled out another card (from the same issuer) that worked just fine at the metro machines.

One way around this issue is, obviously, to have credit cards that actually are PIN enabled. I did this quite some years ago . Look at Andrews Federal Credit Union , and Barclay Bank . They do provide such cards , for anyone who is interested .

The DB ticket machines show the currency denominations accepted by the machine. I only noticed the 50 Euro bill was not accepted. The DB machines were much more "user friendly" as regards to US credit cards than those in France, ie the SNCF machines, the little decal there tells you in French and English that only chip credit cards are accepted.

The DB machines show the picto-gram of a credit card folded revealing the magnetic strip. That's the US credit card.

In Germany those times i chose to use the credit card at the DB machine my only problem was when I could not exactly remember the 4 digit PIN to that particular card, so I used another credit card, or just inserted the cash.

Paying cash always worked, bills and coins.

I'm surprised. The US is so far ahead of Canada in so many ways. Yet with contactless CCs and pins we're miles ahead. I have been using a pin for at least 15-20 years, at home and abroad. I've been tapping for perhaps the same amount of time. I worked for a friend a few years ago in a women's clothing store in our seaside town. We had many US and European customers. The Europeans all tapped or if it was over a certain limit, inserted their card and used their pin. It was only US customers that had to sign for credit.

The reason the USA is so unique is that we have such a decentralised banking system and have thousands of small banks. Most other developed economies have only a few banks and that made it easier to adapt new technology.

Contactless has really made life easier.

I've been in Europe for over 2 weeks and not once have I been asked for a PIN. So maybe it's something specific about your Chase card? I use a BofA MC or my AMEX Delta card most of the time and never have any problems.

And with regards to getting train tickets, I haven't bought a train ticket from a machine in years. I always use the apps - it's so much easier and no risk of losing the ticket.

I'm going to also suggests using the app to buy train tickets. Never a problem with a rejected card. And if you want, you can always get a "paper" ticket at one of the ticket machines. You just have to plug in your ticket information.

Thats what I did in France last fall and will be doing in England and Scotland later this month.

For payments elsewhere, why not just set up Google Pay or Apple Pay? It has become very convenient using it.

For payments elsewhere, why not just set up Google Pay or Apple Pay?

On our last trip to Europe (France and Germany) in 2019, we used Apple Pay a lot at restaurants and shops and never had a problem. Many of the places we used it, when we asked if they took Apple Pay, they would shrug their shoulders. I said "let's try it" and it would work, and they would just smile at me. I found it worked at restaurants where the waiter has the mobile gizmo in hand, and also at the counter of shops where the "contactless" symbol is displayed on the credit card reader. Worked like a charm 3 years ago, and I would expect that the service has grown since then with more acceptance.

I was JUST logged in on the Chase website, type PIN in the search box and it will clearly show you how to set up a pin via a toll free number automated system. They will mail you the initial PIN which you can then change, also via the same phone number.

This will of course not help you on this trip, but it worked easily for me!

We just returned from 2+ weeks in Italy, the contactless Chase Sapphire VISA card worked flawlessly EXCEPT for gasoline pumps. We had issues with gasoline, I think every credit card we have was replaced for various reasons since we were last overseas three years ago, and the pins change I believe when you get a new card. Forgot to check that.
Gasoline self service required a pin, everything else including the highway toll machines did not.

Contrary to above, I have never had a pin requested when placing any of my cards into a POS reader for any service. Really odd.

John....did you make any purchases that required you to enter the PIN? Not contactless, the PIN. If so, where?

I have three Chase cards and none of them has a PIN for PURCHASES. They are all now contactless. They all offer a PIN for cash withdrawal at ATM's.

Thanks everyone! I’ll follow up with these ideas. Actually I have been doing the train tickets on line. It was a parking kiosk that wouldn’t take the card yesterday. It did work at a toll booth today, thank God. And we just find a gas station with a person.

For everything else, we haven’t had problems for years - even tiny bars in the middle of nowhere take cards but we have to sign about half the time.

I can afford these trips by maximizing Chase Saphires frequent flyer miles and want to use cards as much as possible on our trip to get miles for the next trip! And Chase doesn’t charge for foreign transaction fees.

With regards to which bank my credit card is attached to: When I used the credit card to pay the DB machine, it was a BofA Visa credit card where I had to punch in the PIN. I don't use contactless.

Frank: No I did not enter a pin - for anything - during our time in Italy. As a matter of fact other than buying gas at an attended station I don't remember ever even swiping the card. Almost universal it was "tap and pay" at restaurants, admissions, etc.

Turns out (hence my contact with Chase today) I had the wrong pin anyway. Think they must have changed it when they sent me a new card when it was corrupted.

This lack of consistency is one reason why I am reluctant to not carry some cash. At some of our local merchants, I am still asked to sign for purchases >$100 when I use Apple Pay (linked to CC). Electronic signature, but still . . . .

Dear FrankII

As strange as it may seem your cards PIN does both cash ATM withdrawals and purchases in Europe and elsewhere.

In Oz we are also able to do a cash withdrawal at the supermarket POS when paying via a debit card. No fees. Do you have that facility?

Regards Ron

When you are required to sign for purchases for threshold amounts over say $100, those are set by the vendors, not by your credit card company, and certainly not by Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay at many vendors in the US where no signature is required over $100, and I have been asked to physically sign a paper slip for nominal apple pay purchases well under $100 like at a sandwich shop.

The #1 reason to use apple pay (or google pay) with your cell phone beyond the convenience factor is to keep your credit card in your wallet to limit exposing your card to prying eyes or hidden cameras, to avoid card readers that have been tampered with to skim your CC number, and to avoid having the chip on your CC read surreptitiously by a nearby device. Similarly it is advised to keep your CCs with readable chips inside an RFID sleeve in your wallet, too.

Apple Pay creates a unique, one time number for each transaction that is separate from the card you have registered with Apple Pay. The vendor has no idea what credit card the transaction has been charged to with Apple Pay, thus it is literally impossible for your CC number to be stolen in a transaction. It is why I try to use Apple Pay first at any store or vendor before I actually have to pull out my wallet and produce a physical credit card, and I do it in the US and in Europe.

i just called Capital One and after talking to a supervisor, they said that they do not offer pins for purchases at all. Basically, if a merchant needs/demands a pin, my CapOne card isn’t an option.

Gasoline self service required a pin, everything else including the highway toll machines did not.

In Iceland last year we used our debit card to purchase gasoline at various non-company owned stations. Did it as debit transaction with no issues. Used our credit cards at "company owned stations". The attendant at those stations ran it through his credit card read in the store.

I use a debit card to get cash from an ATM, then my credit card for purchases ... if the cc needs a pin, I whip out the euros then reload my wallet.

That will not work at an unmanned gas station.

That will not work at an unmanned gas station.

When my fuel gauge drops below half, I find a manned station the next time we stop, fill 'er up and pay cash ... never had an issue.