June/July 2024 Europe

Buy and read Europe Through The Backdoor. Stellar intel on trains, on Rome, Dublin, Paris, London et al.

If using trains for travel understand its 10 hrs plus from Rome to Salzburg. From Milan to Rome is 4hrs

There is no direct train from Paris to Lancanshire.

You need research travel times and whittle down your absolute musts. What you’ve shared is a bit of a hodgepodge.

Understand you want your daughters to “ see “ Europe but with as many as places as you’ve listed they’ll spend most of the trip on trains.

Maybe just do London, Paris and Rome.

Smart husband. Yes it is rushed, but I get the limitations and the various wants.

No need for Eurail passes, too many countries, too few travel days, and the night train and possibly others would cost extra anyway. Just buy point to point tickets, looks like flights might work as well for several legs.

Fly into Milan, not Munich, even if it is a bit more, train cost will wipe out any savings. For that matter, if Rome is only a $100-$200 more each, it might be worth biting the bullet and flying into Rome.

Spend most of your time in Rome, there is way more to do there than you will have time for. If you want a vineyard, maybe do a daytrip to Orvieto, not far from Rome, neat hilltop town, can't vouch for any of the nearby vineyards, but there are several.

For Salzburg, the obvious things, beside what you mentioned, is Munich and Hallstatt as day trips. Some also make it over to Fussen and the castles.

For Paris, and two nights, that really only gives you one full day. It will take 8 hours to get there by train, so that day is mostly shot, then your departure day, Paris to Lancaster is a long day, in fact, I think you are optimistic that you will be able to get from Paris to Lancaster, check into your rural timeshare, and then make your way to Dublin the same day. Skip Disneyland.

The logistics of Paris to your timeshare in Lancaster need to be worked out. Flying into Manchester seems the logical option, then bus or train to Lancaster, then bus to Thurnham Hall. If you are comfortable with a rental, car, that would be more efficient (other side of the road, manual transmission likely, etc).

You might consider delaying check-in, flying directly to Ireland from Paris, then Dublin to Manchester, eliminating one flight.

Probably lots of other things, once the overall itinerary gets settled, and you have questions about a specific stop.

As an aside, just have to mention; the subject of Taylor Swift concerts in Europe came up, and the comment was made that people from the US would probably be traveling to go to these concerts, you are at least the third new person to the forum asking questions about traveling to concerts.

Random thoughts.

If you fly into Munich on the 17th, you could go to Dachau early on the 18th. It will take about a half a day to do it justice, and you could spend the rest of the day heading to Rome. That will eliminate a bit of "back tracking" from Salzburg. but might make for a bit of a late arrival. Haven't checked train schedules. And you'd have to get your hotel to store your luggage or store it in a locker until you leave Munich

With your limited time, spend it all in Rome. Way more than enough to keep you busy.

Two night in Paris means only one full day, so I'd eliminate Disneyland.

I'm sure others will offer other options, and so will I once you firms things up a little more.

2024 = Paris Olympics....

A very helpful website to get great, simple to understand, instructions on train travel in Europe is Man In Seat 61. Especially since you will be traveling in multiple different countries.

For a first time trip, I see nothing wrong with doing a sampler like you described. Yes, staying in one place for longer is more enjoyable (less packing and unpacking) and easier, but you do "you". I did something similar on my first trip to Europe in my early 20s.

Do pay attention to the advice that two nights somewhere is only one full day, especially when you are traveling long distances. Two nights in Paris is very very short. Drop the Disneyland idea.

Thanks to all so far! Definitely will take your advice in planning! I plan to nail down things during the Christmas break!

Your two “non-negotiables” are the Papal audience in Rome and the Taylor Swift concert in Dublin, but you are using timeshares for lodging far away from Dublin and Rome. How will you get to Thurnham Hall to Dublin? Ferry? Plane? You need to look carefully at the transport logistics involved, particularly the Dublin part, as half the world will be trying to get to Dublin on June 29th. Flights in particular could be pretty booked up already. You are not leaving yourself enough time to get this done—-checkin at the resort will likely be not until 4 pm.

And book your Dublin hotel NOW. A quick check on booking.com shows very little available for under $1000 for the 2 nights June 29-July 1. And everything is non-refundable—-I looked at 4 different Dublin hotels, and all they offer is non-refundable rates. So choose carefully.

Questions: 1) Are these dates set? That is, do you HAVE to leave June 17th and come back July 9th? Or is there room to change the dates/order? 2) Do you already have the papal audience set, or is this just the date you want to do it? 3) Have you picked places because you have timeshares, or because you actually want to go there?

Assuming the answesr to 1 and 2 are no, here's my 2 cents.

This is A LOT. Maybe too much. You only give Paris two nights plus, as someone pointed out, it's the Olympics. I would not touch France with a ten-foot pole this summer. I'd cut Paris. I'd cut Salzburg, too, but that's because I have found the city lackluster both times I have visited; yes, I recognize I am in the minority here, but I still stand by this. The surrounding countryside, however, is gorgeous. I loved Hallstatt, but I was there in 2010 and I understand now it is very overcrowded. Might still be worth an overnight, though. Dachau from Salzburg is about 2.5 hours one way; I'd ask why you want to visit, and if it's really worth the time and effort for you on this trip.

What if: You arrived in Dublin on June 28 and stayed until July 1? You don't say where you are flying from, but I can tell you the worst jet-lag I ever had was going JFK to Dublin. I was just useless the whole day and fell asleep on a city bus (luckily a local friend was there to keep me awake). Give yourselves this day and the next to adjust and see Dublin. As someone mentioned, it's already going to be a madhouse as far as lodging. Maybe consider staying in Howth or Dun Laoghaire?

From there, fly to London; there are a lot of cheap flights, some even to Heathrow. You don't say exactly what you and your daughters are into (history, museums, shopping), but London has it all. We were there for eight nights this summer and were not bored for a second; you only give it three days here, but I would do at least five. You can do a (long) day trip to Bath if they are interested in Austen or Roman ruins, or stay closer and see Windsor and/or Hampton Court. There is more than enough to fill your time in London for more than five days, but I know you want to see more of Europe.

From here, if it were me, I'd spend the next two weeks in Italy, hitting Venice and Florence with a few days of rest in the Tuscan countryside, before going out with a bang with five nights in Rome. If you really want to see Austria, I'd shorten my time in Salzburg but add Vienna. Or, harder to get to but worth it, hit Slovenia before you tackle Italy.

My point is, three weeks sounds like a lot, but if you try to cram in too much, you won't have time to enjoy the places together. You need some down time, otherwise you will all crash by the middle of Day 10. I'd ask your daughters what they want to see, and what aspects of Europe hold their interest - and then go from there. And I'd put the Taylor Swift concert first - you don't want to go to that tired from a marathon of travel!

Hi Crissy -
Just to agree with some of the previous comments....
If your destination is Rome; fly to Rome, not Munich or Milan. Spend all of your time in Rome. My personal minimum for that one is 4 nights/3.5 days and that's pretty much what you'll have.

No, you don't have time for Paris, 2 nights = only one full sightseeing day. IMHO, not worth the transport time/ $.

I'm curious why you intend to check into Thurnham Hall on the 29th when you won't actually be staying there until July 1? Yes, how are you intending on getting to Thurnham Hall and day trip from there? How are you intending on getting to/from Dublin? It's in a pretty isolated rural location, and multiple previous guest reviews note that guests really need a car to get around. Maybe you intended on renting one (from where?) for that segment of the trip and are comfortable with opposite-side driving but that piece is unclear.

I think you are optimistic that you will be able to get from Paris to
Lancaster, check into your rural timeshare, and then make your way to
Dublin

I would agree, and pay VERY close attention to the price /availability of Dublin hotels on the 29th and 30th as well as potential transport issues just getting there. You've listed 29-July 1 as "Ireland" but with the amount of time it'll take just to get there same day as coming from another country to Thurnham Hall, THEN to Dublin to be there for the concert on the 30th, and leaving on the 1st, best you can do is see a bit of Dublin and nothing else in Ireland.

July 6-9: London
If you're leaving Thurnham Hall on the 6th and flying home on the 9th, you have 2.5 days for London. Given the amount of things to see in that one, I'd give it more time. You've been there, I know, but your daughters have not. I also think it would be an easier base to daytrip from than Thurnham Hall, especially if not wanting to rent a car.

Your plans are WAY too rushed. Spending only two days in places like Munich, Rome and Paris are ignoring so much about what there is to see in those places. You wouldn't even see the tip of the iceberg.

Slow down and forget all this travel that wastes your time.

Agree with other posters that you are trying to see too much and will end up seeing very little. Your girls are young, they most likely will be back to Europe, so don’t feel you have to show them they whole continent on their first visit.

Pick 4 locations.

You said "sampler" and for 3 young ladies sounds like a good sampler. If you are up to it, I suspect it will be a trip to remember. How rushed is it? Half as rushed as a RS tour. Im just sorry you didnt reach Eastern Europe. Add a few days and come to the dark side. Also, dont be afraid to fly. The discount airlines can be nearly as cheap as a train and can save hours of travel time.

Please, please listen to the folks advising you to skip Paris on this trip. Two nights during an Olympic summer is (sorry) just silly. You need to fly to at least the UK (Ireland would be better) from whatever is your previous stop--Rome, Vienna, Munich (for Salzburg). As you've sketched out your itinerary, you have way too much time in transit. You need one or more flights--and I say that as someone who will jump through a lot of hoops to avoid heading out to an airport in the middle of a trip.

Whatever you decide to do with the first part of the trip (and I agree that starting with the all-important concert in Dublin would be smart), Job #1 is finding lodgings for the time in/near Dublin. The cost is going to be exorbitant, and availability will be exceptionally tight. Because of the reported lack of cancellable rooms, you're going to need trip insurance. Work with insuremytrip.com and/or squaremouth.com to figure out a policy that will protect you if someone breaks a leg, etc., before the trip. Trip insurance must be set up within a short time of your initial trip purchase in order for pre-existing conditions to be covered. Perhaps none of you have pre-existing medical conditions, but who wants to fight with an insurance company about the definition of that term?

Job #2 is figuring out transportation into Dublin. Flights get cancelled for a variety of reasons, including eruptions of Icelandic volcanoes, labor unrest, weird weather, etc. I'd want to be within an affordable taxi ride (there could be a rail/bus strike) of Dublin two days before the concert. I'm conservative about stuff like that.

Job #3 is figuring out transportation out of Dublin. Anything that touches Dublin around the time of that concert is likely to be a great deal more expensive than usual.

I went to South Africa for the World Cup. The sports were good, the atmosphere was a once in a life time experience. Go for it. Soak it all in and enjoy what few will experience.

Wise counsel directly above. Your plans for June 27 - July 1 are way too complicated; perhaps impossible. With your priority being the Taylor Swift concert on June 30, you should focus on that and make sure you get there in time.

You haven’t been to Europe since 2001, so I will warn you that things are very different now. Since covid, more people are traveling, and fewer people are working in the essential services of transport. What that means is that there are strikes and other problems leading to frequent canceled flights and trains. Each of our 3 trips to Europe since September 2022 has been affected by cancellations and delays, sometimes severely. You do not want to take a chance on getting to Dublin late.

Like others, I suggest you skip Paris entirely. Fly from Munich (very near Salzburg) straight to an airport in Ireland on June 27 or 28. Spend a couple of nights somewhere other than Dublin, enjoying what Ireland has to offer, and avoiding the exorbitant Dublin hotel prices until June 29. And do book the 2 nights in Dublin soon, with trip insurance (you can cover the cost of the concert tickets as well).

I suspect the planned June 29 check-in at the timeshare is because you have booked it for the week (standard Saturday to Saturday booking for a timeshare, in my experience) and you feel the need to check in on the first day. But you have paid for that week, and nothing bad will happen if you don’t check in that day. Call the resort and tell them you will arrive later, like July 1, and ask if you can check in online or make other arrangements that satisfy them. They are not going to cancel on you as long as you arrange things in advance.

I can understand wanting to give a taste of several places. I struggle with some aspects. I particularly struggle with the time share in Lancashire. I don't think your current plan saves you any money at all in using the time share there. You will need some sort of transportation if you are going to be doing day trips. (day trips to where?) And time spent going back and forth is also a cost. Can you drop Lancashire and add time to Ireland and London? Also, drop Paris. This is not the year.

I am a retired teacher and I understand budget. I get why you are trying to use timeshares. I also understand being exhausted and ready for a break at the end of December! Give yourself a break. Take a day or two and then read through this forum again. I love a good bargain. However, there are times to spend a bit more and make your vacation work vs. itineraries that are designed for money saving only.

I went to South Africa for the World Cup. The sports were good, the
atmosphere was a once in a life time experience. Go for it. Soak it
all in and enjoy what few will experience.

Regarding the Olympics:
The OP was looking at being in Paris in late June.
The games start in late July through mid-August so their proposed visiting dates don't coincide with the games.

My issue is that they've only given Paris two nights/1 full day, coming from Salzburg, and then moving on to rural England+ Dublin within the same day. That's Salzburg>Paris>Lancashire> Dublin within 3 days.

27th: Salzburg> Paris
28th: Paris
29th: Paris to Lancashire/Thurnham Hall > Dublin

Yes, how are you intending on getting to Thurnham Hall and day trip from there? How are you intending on getting to/from Dublin? It's in a pretty isolated rural location, and multiple previous guest reviews note that guests really need a car to get around.

All that proves is that people don't actually know how to get to Thurnham Hall by transit, not that it is actually that hard. There is an hourly bus #88/89 from Lancaster to Thurnham Hall Lane End. The last from Lancaster is at 1930, so it really is not hard to get there, whether by Eurostar/Avanti train to Lancaster or flight Paris to MAN then train to Lancaster.

With a first bus from Thurnham at 0655 it is not at all hard to get to Holyhead for the afternoon ferry to Ireland. Unlike airlines ferry fares are a constant, not dynamic. Book the ferry now and that is not a problem. The hotel in Dublin may be and you may need to think creatively.

If you caught an early flight Paris to MAN you could check in to Thurnham early afternoon, bus back to Lancaster, then train via Warrington or Crewe to Holyhead for the night ferry to Dublin. For people who know how the local transit works it is totally do-able. The problem is when you rely on reviews and supposition. You arrive at Dublin port at 6am on 30 June.
One night in Dublin on 30 June.
Back to Lancaster on the 0805 ferry on 1 July- the connecting train gets you to Lancaster at 1555, so at Thurnham by 1700 with 3 hours in hand before the last bus.
It is the hotel night in Dublin on 30 June which is hard. But The Trinity City Hotel (TA 4*) is on at £336 for the 3 of you that night (triple room)- not a totally deal breaking cost.
More detail- 1st flight from Paris arrives MAN at 1005, the 1129 train from the airport arrives Lancaster 1255. Catch the 1330 bus to Thurnham.
Trains to Holyhead for the night boat leave at 1940, and a last one at 2043.

Kathy you are right. But the OP called the trip a sampler and at that it works.

Thanks all! I will be researching more in the next couple of weeks but I do want all to know that I do have my reservations booked in Dublin already so that’s not a worry. I booked that weeks ago bc I’m aware of what “Taylor-mania” here in the states was like on hotels, etc. We’re booked from June 29-July 1…got it through booking.com….
Plan was to book a ferry soon - just looking at times.
As for Thurnham, I thought we had to check in for sure so thanks to the one that said we don’t have to.
Our daughters have been so involved in livestock shows the past 10 years that we have rarely had the time to use our timeshares like we would like so we are “rusty” on the rules 😊
Thanks again & I am appreciating all the tips/advice!

If you already have 2 nights hotel booked in Dublin then Ryanair still have very good prices from Paris Beauvais to either Cork or Dublin (then train or bus from Cork if choosing Cork).

Or if you still wanted to route via Thurnham Ryanair have a 2150 flight from Manchester to Dublin starting at £27 each. There is plenty of time to get to Thurnham Hall, check in then back to MAN in time for the 2150 if you chose that option.
£27 each is cheaper than the ferry option and gets you there that night.

There is also a 2335 flight on Ryanair from Liverpool John Lennon airport, for a base fare of £30 each- arrive Dublin 0030. Should get you into your hotel by about 0130- a long day, but not impossible.

Liverpool airport is easy to get to from Lancaster- train to Liverpool Lime Street via Preston (90 minutes or less) then airport bus #500 from Great Charlotte Street (very close to Lime Street). Thus the Liverpool flight gives you a bit extra time over Manchester.

Then ferry back to Thurnham on 1 July,

There is a direct shuttle bus from Paris Porte Maillot RER Line C/Metro Line 1 to Beauvais 3 hours before each flight- https://www.aeroportparisbeauvais.com/en/access-parking/paris-airport-shuttle/

I'm just going to point out that you are traveling at probably the busiest time of the year and with the Olympics in Paris. Your itinerary looks ambitious to put it nicely. Please remember that trains/planes will probably be full if it's like last year and train/plane delays and cancellations are almost a given. I went in April of this year and the crowds on trains/planes were more than I'd seen pre-Covid. I would factor in some downtime or just not schedule so much on each day. Plus having nieces around your daughters age, giving them some downtime or late mornings and letting them just relax, can make for a better holiday.

As Rick says, you and certainly your daughters will be back. Don't cram too many things into a trip.

I keep looking at your plan and I dont get the out cry against it. Sure, not for everyone, but works. I would cut a day or two from Salzburg and spend it in Paris ... but .,. either way still works. Oh, Rome, stay in Rome and maybe find a goòd wine bar instead of a vineyard.

Good sampler of part of Europe. Have fun.

Your trip is doable with some detailed planning and discipline depending on how rugged a traveler you and the girls are.

I would call this trip an "overview" rather than a sampler, more like a recon mission. I would suggest getting the Youth Eurail Pass for the girls, the Global Pass for yourself. Use the passes for taking the night train to Salzburg.

How do plan on getting to Paris? Look into doing a night train from Munich to Paris. I would also suggest spending 3 full days in Paris.

OK I’m back with a few more details filled in 😊
I have booked 2 timeshares - June 22-29 will be at Mondi-Holiday Hotel Bellevue in Salzburg and June 29-July 6 at Thurnham Hall in Lancaster. I did let the timeshare know that we won’t be checking into Thurnham until July 1 as we have Taylor Swift concert on June 30.
We have decided to skip Italy this trip - you all were correct once I started looking at logistics!
I still have not booked airfare - keeping an eye out for fares…plans are to fly into somewhere (looking at either Paris, Amsterdam, etc) around June 16 & then flying out of London July 9 (that date is pretty set as my youngest needs to be back in town for an event.
We will be in London from July 6-9…going to get Wicked tickets soon.
The front end is a little open now - plans are if we end up getting tickets into Amsterdam or Brussels, spending a couple of days there - train to Paris for a couple of days, night-train to Salzburg June 22.
Then as many of y’all said, we will fly to Dublin (looking at RyanAir, they don’t have a flight that shows as of now on June 29 to Dublin so I’ll keep looking or we’ll train to Germany and fly of out there.)
From Dublin, was debating ferry but I found that there is a flight on sale to Manchester - thinking we’ll fly out on July 1 to Manchester. I just need to make sure of travel from airport to resort…looks do-able…time of flight shows we would arrive in Manchester at 20:20 so I just need to make sure train times.
I DO have Lucan Spa booked in Ireland - shows it’s an hour bus ride from Aviva…if Europe concerts are like US ones for Taylor, I know that will be longer but that’s ok…
Hopefully this looks like a little less stress for all who looked at my first agenda. 😂
Thanks for all the help!!!