June 2024 Central Europe Trip - Am I trying to cram too much in?

I'll only comment on Day 10.

What time are you aiming to dep from Dresden for Prague. If you leave around noon or soon afterwards, you still have half a day to explore Prague. Dresden to Prague is ca. 2 hrs. almost equidistant from Berlin.

As this is in June (about the same time I am going to be in Dresden), you have extra daylight too.

Hi Fred, Thanks for the reply. In all honesty, I haven't thought about exactly what times of day we'd arrive at and leave each area. I figured this would be more finicky to plan in-depth as it would depend heavily on train schedules. I did note in my planning doc that the train ride is short compared to some others we'd be taking on the trip, so we'll take that into account while going!

Why is Innsbruck a priority? Are you flying into this location?
Seems like flying into Munich and skipping Austria would be better. N'stein Castle is a tourist trap, IMHO.
However, if you're in Austria, Salzburg is SO magical!
Have you plotted out all your travel times? I'm assuming this is by train, but you didn't specify. I also assume you're flying out of Budapest?
Can you do the trip in May, before the summer crowds?
What are your top priorities? I do think you need to slow down the beginning of the trip, and allow for jet lag , colds, train strikes, bad weather, etc.
Enjoy planning your trip and safe travels!

Hi Pat. Thanks for the reply. Innsbruck was a pick because members of the group were interested in doing N'stein Castle and Zugspite but you're completely right, Salzburg would likely be closer to our planned route. Might be an easier substitute for us especially since it seems we'll still be able to see mountains and a castle.

As for flights, they are not booked yet so we're still flexible. The original plan was Innsbruck to Budapest but that can still be swapped around.

Unfortunatley we cannot do it in May as it would constrict us even shorter on time due to prior commitments. I wish we could though since I have heard it is less crowded.

Thanks for your advice on this, much appreciated!

@ Ally....I looked at your travel schedule again , the most pressing question is how do you intend on getting from Munich to Dresden.

Any way you cut it, assuming you going by train, the ride will take 6 + hours, regardless if you choose to transfer in Berlin or Leipzig. Other departures require 2 transfers.

If you are unfamiliar with big urban train stations in Germany, I would suggest transferring in Leipzig...better that in Berlin Südkreuz since you probably will have luggage in tow. (I like Leipzig Hbf , Südkreuz I don't find recommendable )

Leipzig Hbf is massive, a site in and of itself to explore. The platforms are easy to access, no staircases as in Hannover, Hamburg, Rostock, etc, to deal with lugging luggage around, ie, you get off the train from Munich, walk across (all level) to your transfer platform for Dresden.

I assume you have chosen the destinations that are of particular interest, because the list of great places to see might be endless. 🤣

I just did a quick preliminary look at trains. It seems like unless you have some particular interest in flying into Austria, Munich might make a better location to begin with. (Maybe flights are cheaper into Innsbruck or something.). I think your day trips to Zugspitze and Neuschwanstein can just as easily be accomplished from Munich and you save a day of travel. Plus the day in Innsbruck. With those 2 extra days, you could spend 2 nights in Vienna for just a taste - and break up Prague to Budapest.

Otherwise, while this is a whirlwind trip, it is doable.

Not sure where you live in Canada but Lufthansa has direct flights to Munich from Vancouver, Toronto and I think Montreal from the spring until end of October so that could make it easy to start there.

I have been traveling this region since 1970, and I hope you don't mind if I make some slight changes to your itinerary. Your itinerary is rather fast moving but the below is completely do-able. I skipped Neuschwanstein as I prefer to see real castles--not fake. And the Alps around Innsbruck are as high as the Zugspitz--and actually prettier. I added Salzburg, a favorite small city for many travelers. It's a shame you don't have about 4 more days as Vienna (between Budapest and Prague) is another great city.

Arrive in Munich Germany
Munich
Dachau Concentration Camp in a.m. Train to Innsbruck in p.m.
Innsbruck Rent a car for 2 days.
Innsbruck and Tirol. (Skip Neuschwanstein and Zugspitz.)
Short train ride to Salzburg
Salzburg
Train to Budapest
Budapest
Budapest
Train to Prague--7 hr. trip
Prague
Prague
Short Train ride to Dresden
Dresden
Day-long bus tour to Saxon National Park
2 hour Train to Berlin and fly home from there.

Where in Canada are you flying from? Lufthansa/Air Canada have direct flights to Munich from Vancouver and Toronto, from Calgary there is a change in Frankfurt to get to Munich. It’s approx a ten hour flight from either Vancouver and Toronto, the change of planes inFrankfurt makes it at least 14 hours. If returning from Budapest there is a flight change in Frankfurt or Munich. This is Just to give you some idea about how long you will be traveling to and from Canada. Always easier if you can avoid changes in Toronto.

As mentioned above by a couple of people, Austria is probably the easiest to drop and doing so will give you extra time in another destination. Both Neuschwanstein and the Zugspitze are day trips from Munich so why not add the days there. Also I guess that any flight into Innsbruck will require a change in Frankfurt or Munich.

Good luck with your planning

Ally, I sort of like the way you have things layer out. Busy up front with lots of travel experience and laid back at the end. A good sample that ends in a sure bet.

Lufthansa flies nonstop Munich to Dresden so that works for you. I'm an advocate of using all the tools at your disposal to see all that interests you. That means springing for a $100 flight from time to time.

Look and see if there are nonstop flights from Prague to Budapest on your travel day (Ryan Air but not every day) as it will save you about 3 hours of travel time. AND if it's a morning flight, go from the airport to Szentendre and then boat to Budapest. Great way to meet the city.

When you have a plan, post arrival and departure dates in each country forum and get a lot more advice. Nice group here.

You have two days trips into Germany from Innsbruck, then you go to Munich. Bad idea, going to Fussen and Garmisch, you are already half way to Munich. Better to leave Innsbruck and stay in Fussen or Garmisch, then move on to Munich.

Of course, visiting Salzburg and Berchtesgaden would be a good thing, do that before or after Munich.

Been to Dresden, that city was firebombed in WWII and not much is left, not sure why you go out of your way to visit that city. Vienna is better and you could see it after Prague and before Budapest.

1. People go where their interests are.
   
2. All sorts of theories on the order for Prague and Budapest and Vienna. I think flying Prague to Budapest and then train to Vienna makes good sense . .. but Vienna is about 34th of my list of the 30 most interesting places. Much prefer the thought of going to Dresden. Not all trips have to include unreconstructed ancient architecture. Dresden has always seemed to be a fascinating destination.
   

Hi,

I have been to Dresden a few times, as day trips and overnighters, the last visit in 2009. The first time was most revealing, obviously, in 1992 on a guided tour from Berlin. The bus left from the travel organisation located on Meinecke Strasse and Kurfürstendamm, our tour group consisted of a few anglophones, (British ) and the rest all Germans, as was most likely to be expected.

The tour offered an additional site other than the main area of Dresden: an excursion out to Schloss Pillnitz on the Elbe, the history of which is also connected to the French Revolution.

If you decide on a tour of Dresden, check if an "extra" is included, ie, a trip out to Schloss Pillnitz. You can expect it to be sparkling, spruced up, refurbished, etc.

You’ve had all sorts of good advice here. :) I like reading other people’s suggestions because I usually learn something. I still think flying in to Munich and basing from there is a better option, but there’s nothing wrong with the day trips you have planned if that is what you want to see.

I might reinforce what Pat said about mentally allowing for potential flight delays upon arrival - and plug in how David laid the trip out with your first day free in Munich.

I also think you have done well in leaving a whole day for travel each time. Some days will take more, some days not - but you have accounted for travel time.

I also like Dresden - and didn’t even make it to the park, so I have to go back. 🤣

Mr. E has good suggestions about flights. As much as I love trains, when the distances get long, the short intra-European flights can be a really good deal. I sometimes forget to check those.

It looks like a great trip!

Trip: You can get off the Dresden Prague train and see the Saxon national park and get back on and go to Prague same day. George is giving 1980s advice about Dresden, it is now rebuilt and a satisfying destination, and a surprising number of historical structures did survive the war. Some people love Budapest, but if for some reason you don't then 3 days is a lot, you could hustle around in a long day and take a night boat ride and really see the essentials.

For what it's worth, I believe saying "some people love Budapest" is a serious understatement. I've read very, very few negative comments about that city. It's overwhelmingly popular. Of course, it's always smart to read at least one guidebook with good coverage of the places you're considering to try to get an understanding of the general atmosphere and consider whether the local sights are a good fit for your particular interests. For a stay of 3 days, you need a good number of things you're excited about seeing.

I've read very, very few negative comments about that city. It's overwhelmingly popular.

That's a negative comment right there. I thought Buda castle was every bit as crowded as Prague Castle, but there is actually not much to see there aside from enjoying the view and looking at the various reconstructions and that odd Fisherman's thing which is a sad structure when viewed close up. For some reason Prague gets the negative comments about crowding, but Budapest is really its equal in that regard.

Prague is more than the Old Town and Charles Bridge. Budapest is more than the castle. If we measured each city by its one or two most popular sights, virtually all the capitals, plus a bunch of other places, would be on Do-Not-Go lists.

For some reason Prague gets the negative comments about crowding, but
Budapest is really its equal in that regard.

Tom that would be the conventional wisdom. First, I love Prague but there are realities which by no means take it off any "Must Go List". I love Disneyland too for that matter. But here are some rough numbers.

DisneyLand .8 square miles (or about the same size as what I suspect the overwhelming majority of tourists go to see in Prague.

Prague Old Town .5 sq miles
Prague Castle District .2 sq miles
Prague Total about .7 sq miles (let’s call it 1 square mile to pick up a few of the other sites like Wenceslas Square).
**2019 = 6.8 million tourists**

Buda Castle Hill .5 sq mile
District V 1 sq mile
District VI (lower half) .5 sq miles
District VII (lower half) .5 sq miles
Budapest Total about 2.5 sq miles if we don’t count the attractions in Districts VIII and IX like the Great Market Hall and if we skip Margrit Island.
2019 = 4.6 million tourists

So, the Budapest tourist zone is 2.5+ times the size of Prague and deals with about 2/3rds of the tourists that Prague does.

My main point is really that I naively expected Budapest to be "undiscovered," cheap and uncrowded, and it is neither. It's busy too, like what seems to be most of Europe these days, at least places a person has heard of.

Yep. And I'd say the same thing about Krakow, Gdansk and even Lviv, pre-war.

Acraven: You know Europe as well as Rick so it’s disheartening to hear that.

I’m finding out that when visiting Machu Picchu these days, wandering the site is no longer allowed. It’s not just that a timed entry ticket is required, they’ve established 5 one-way circuits from the entrance to the exit.

Wondering sometimes if it’s all worth it anymore.

I love the less well-known cities and some just-off-center neighborhoods in even the top destinations. The total amount of truly overloaded real estate is not that great; it's just that nearly everyone sees those swamped places because they're at the top of their sightseeing list; a lot of people don't have the time to see much else.

Tom, your second assessment is correct ... except the cost. Don't get me wrong, not as cheap as it once was but still 25 to 30% below western Europe. Still, I share your perception and have for years, which is why my travel goes East. Remember 30 years ago Budapest was way, way far East. You can find a lot off what you are searching for East of here. But a lot if requires self discovery.

@Tom, in addition to what acraven said about off center neighborhoods and and lesser known cities, there are still a good amount of Europe that isn’t crowded. Sometimes, of course, that comes with the price of the “tourist infrastructure” and transportation not being as developed. It makes whizzing in and whizzing out not as easy.

I still love Budapest because it has a wealth of things to see that are lesser known, as well as the better known sights - and I have yet to find Pest crowded. Maybe when I get there for Christmas markets. But I also love Prague - it’s different, so I never compare the two. Cities are cities - and they have lots of people by definition.

Try Albania, or Montenegro off the coast, or Bosnia. I suspect Bulgaria and Romania are not yet swamped. I haven’t been crowded in Andalucia, nor northern Greece with the amazing Meteora. Thessaloniki is full of antiquities and Croatia away from Dubrovnik is gorgeous. The only time I have been in crowds in Edinburgh was during the Fringe Festival - and the countryside away from cities is gorgeous.

I would never say to NOT go somewhere like Rome but if you want places not yet swamped, they are still out there. Sometimes it just takes more time to get to them. And that’s why they aren’t swamped.

Sorry, @Ally. I think you have a great group of destinations. And although I often travel solo, I have a good group of travel friends. Communication and collaboration and similar expectations help a lot!

If you have to ask if you are doing too much, then you all ready know the answer. :)

Actually fot that to be true the OP would need to be omniscient and the forum would not be necessary.

Hi, I just did a Central Europe trip in Sept. Must you go all the way up to Dresden? I ask because I did the Saxon and Bohemian Switzerland all day hiking trip from Prague. You will pass these national parks by going to Dresden, then backtrack. Then you backtrack to Budapest. You can cut out downtime and packing/unpacking by just going as far north as Prague and do the parks. Then on to Budapest. Also everyone who just goes to Prague misses the Czech Republic gems!!! We also went to Cesky Krumlov and that was absolutely lovely. Also, Innsbruck is lovely, but agree with Salzburg. Loved Salzburg! There are SOOOO many castles in Central Europe that NS is NOT a must. Agree that Vienna is wonderful. We did: Berlin (only cuz my kids were there), Prague (with a day to hike), Cesky Krumlov, Vienna, Salzburg, Munich. I wanted to do Budapest but it was just too far. Will do that on another trip when I go farther south. I encourage you to spend more quality time in places. and check out the slightly off the beaten path places in addition to the big cities (maybe alternate). We spent 3-4 days in each place. Was glad I did. Total was 17 days.

Also want to say one other thing....... European trains frequently have issues. Got stuck for 2 extra hours on the train from Berlin to Prague (goes through Dresden) because of problems on the track. Arrived Prague to pouring down rain (had to cancel a rooftop happy hour). Got stuck extra long on the train from Salzburg to Munich (the police boarded us looking for refugees - took an extra hour). My son in law tried to go through Munich to join us in Salzburg from Berlin and ALL OF MUNICH was shut down for 24 hours! He spent a lovely evening by himself in Erfurt, Germany! We had to delay a tour for a day while waiting for him. My friends got delayed 5 hours in the summer with a train problem from vienna to munich also. Just download the Eurail app and you'll get an alert every other day about a train delay in Europe!! So, while you plan to whisk around one day here, one day there, it is a risk of delay in Europe unexpectedly for sure!! Weather, trains, etc. I was glad that we had several days in major places so that we had some flexibility. As I said before, try to minimize lots of backtracking and long hauls. Give a breather sometimes in case the unexpected happens. You'll need time for logistics too. Czech money is not the Euro. You'll have to get money and do some laundry, etc.

I've been to all these cities numerous times--except Dresden which we visited once. Love'em all. There's plenty to do in them all. Prague and Budapest remind me of each other with the river running thru both cities. Both have great nightlife too. Prague is not nearly as inexpensive as it once was--and Budapest is downright cheap to visit. I especially like the beautiful young adults in Budapest practicing their English.
Dresden has essentially been rebuilt into one of the more beautiful cities around. Before the end of WWII, it was the most beautiful city in Europe--tops in museums and culture. Much of their treasures have finally been returned. We have relatives who escaped Dresden in 1938--ending up at Ellis Island.

We'll probably be going to Budapest next trip--on the way to Slovenia and Croatia.