Itinerary suggestions

Yes, you are right, it is too tight. Consider this: "Some Place: 2 nights, then train to Another Place"

2 nights in Any Place = 1 day in That Place. So you get just 1 day in Paris, 1 in Bordeaux, 1 in Venice, 1 in Florence, 1 in Tuscany/CT, 1 in Rome... That's just brutal. At that pace, you're going to need to drink a lot of wine, and even if you don't drink any, you will wake up with a hangover as you drag yourself to the flight home.

Sorry...you need to cut half your locations to get in the ballpark, and even then, it's going to be a tough slog.

I hope you have not booked your flights yet. If not, don't - you need to figure out a rational plan first.

And....you need to start being honest with yourself about how much time you really have. You say:

our first vacation to Europe for 14 days & 13 nights...

Right off the bat, your math is wrong, twice in fact. You list 7 places with 2 "nights" each = 14 nights (not 13). Second...you fail to account for your arrival day (on which you won't be good for very much, so don't count it as usable time). Your departure day is equally unusable. And every time you pick up and move, you burn most of a day doing that.

Start being painfully honest with yourself. Don't speak in generalities (X days and nights) which allows you to avoid making hard choices. List specific dates (even if they're just proposed dates). Only then will you see how much usable time you have and how you are burning half of it by changing locations every day or two.

You list 7 locations. You may have as few as 11 usable days (hard to really know - that's why you need to specify real dates). With that amount of time, I'd suggest 3 locations, 4 tops. Unfortunately, with a trip of that length, I don't think you can realistically include London, plus 2 geographically distant parts of France, plus 4 scattered places in Italy. Honestly, I'd suggest you pick either London + France, or Italy and MAYBE one stop in France (actually, just Italy would be better for 11 days).

I know this isn't what you want to hear - sorry. But you need to hear it now, before you set yourself up for a deathmarch. Don't book flights until you get this roughed out.

Hi Suzy Q,

You have to decide what to drop. And I think you know that you will have a better trip if you make that change.

With only 12 days on the ground (you are kidding yourself on 14, since 2 of those are travel days), you should probably limit yourself to 3 destinations.

Given the time of year, and logistics, I would fly directly to Italy. You can catch a flight from the airport in London when you land. Maybe Florence > Cinque Terre (for the hiking & outdoors) > Rome.

If you want the survey experience and are willing to forgo the countryside, you could do London > Paris > Rome.

But really, do not kid yourself on this. Brutal honesty will yield a better trip.

The reality of itinerary planning is that you have drop worthwhile places to make the itinerary work. As it currently stands you have no time for any of the smaller towns on train routes. Also, since Florence is on the main train route between Venice and Rome, doing it as a day trip just means extra backtracking. What I mean is that you will take a train there one day, and then take the exact same route past it a day or two later.

Also note that 2 nights only gives you 1 full day in a city. The other days are partially taken up by travel. I have travelled on all of the train routes that you are using, and none of them is particularly scenic.

I tend to drop places from my itinerary for practical reasons. So in your case, I would probably drop London, and add those days to Paris or Bordeaux. I suggest this not because London is not worthwhile, but to cut your travel times. I would even suggest dropping either Venice or Florence.

You mentioned that you're not spring chickens. Not sure what age you are. We also are not spring chickens and I can tell you that your itinerary will exhaust you. After a few days you may not have the energy to enjoy your 1.5 days in the cities you list. I agree with the other responses, you should re-think your itinerary.

You say that you want to “stretch your comfort levels”, but honestly, this is a “We can say we’ve been there” itinerary. There is no time to truly enjoy anything. I would suggest you drill down, prioritize your interests and choose either France or Italy. Our 21 night trip to Italy included stays in Rome, Florence, Radda and Varrrena, and that kept us on the move, yet we had time to relax and enjoy ourselves. If my travel was as frenetic as you have proposed it would ruin my desire to ever travel overseas. Allow yourself a relaxing first trip to Europe.

I’d gut that entire itinerary and start over. Almost every day is spent in transit to someplace else. And, of course, that leaves ZERO wiggle room for something to go wrong. With 14 days, I’d a maximum of 2 counties and 3 cities. That’s a maximum not the Gospel. I think one country with 3 cities would be better. You don’t really want your wine drinking to be limited to the bar at the airport or train station, do you?

The way I read it, you already have flights so let’s try and make the most of it. You are not “city people” so...

• London, arrive, 3 nights means two full days of fast-paced highlights.
• Eurostar to Paris and immediately on to Beaune by train. Skip Paris this trip. Burgundy is more in direct line to Italy. Stay in Beaune, not too big of a city and heart of the Burgundy region. Flying takes as long as the train so you might as well relax on a train as deal with airports, security, and delays.
• Beaune, 3 nights. Get your wine tasting fix with 2 full days here. Consider a tour, not doing it on your own.
• Fly to Florence, 4 nights, 3 full days, again not-too-big as cities go. Spend some time on a wine tour to Chianti and maybe a day trip to Siena. Another long transfer from Beaune to Florence but at least you have a few days in each location either side of the transfer,
• Train to a Rome for 3 nights (a very short trip this time!) and like London, 2 fast-paced see-as-much-as-you-can days

As others have mentioned, all those two-night stays mean you will have a series of location changes that will make your head spin. Build some memories by pacing it a little bit slower,

Thank you all for your insight. I will definitely drop Paris, probably France completely.

One more thing to consider is to buy tickets to major sites in advance. Lines are long and sometimes hours long. If you don’t do so, you may end up not seeing much.

SuzyQonthemove, if you have this Saturday February 8 free there are TWO travel groups meeting in the Bay Area (Larkspur and Orinda) and on February 15 one in Sacramento. Look up details on this forum "Tips and Trip Reports" section, then "Travel Group Meetings"

Terrible plan.
WAY too much travel. Two nights in cities that need minimum of 5 days (London, Paris, Rome).

You have two weeks and could cover the big three in Italy, Rome, Florence and Venice.
You could do London, Paris and Bordeaux.

Seriously, you have two weeks, Pick 3 or 4 places and eliminate the rest.
For sure do away with Tuscan Village or Cinque Terra.

Do some research on what there is to see in the places that you want to visit.

TripAdvisor, Things To Do is a good start. Identify what you plan to visit. For example in Rome, you will need a full day to see the Coliseum, Forum and Palatine Hill. Another full day for the Vatican, St. Peter's, Sistine Chapel Vatican Museum. You may think you are an art fan, but when you see somethings like the Sistine Chapel, you will understand how wonderful it is.

I think you've realized you need to work on your plan but I will just add something.

Many tour itineraries, including Rick's, have 2 nights in many locations. That only works because the guides and drivers are ace at getting people to their location (hotel or interesting site) efficiently - they've done it before and they don't have to think - which way do I turn when I leave the train station, lol! They've got timed reservations for some sites and can plonk people at the door of a winery for instance (I think their term is a "precision drop") and pick up quickly and efficiently as well. I think I've seen the number 30% being tossed around as the amount of things you can see on a tour over what you can do on your own, especially as a first timer.

I think cutting back on # of locations is a good plan.

I've definitely decided to cut France out completely. I'll save it for next year. London is a must as I've bought the ticket and have a family dinner planned with distant relatives. Italy was initial idea to begin with. There are plenty of wine regions to explore! Thanks all.

I think you have made a good decision. This way you can enjoy your trip more, rather then rush rush from one place to another. Also I believe France needs a dedicated trip. Especially if you are in the wine industry. Enjoy your time!!

You are on the right track - just be careful not to stretch yourself too thin. I'd plan minimal time in London (just enough to do that dinner, then next day fly to Italy), and with the time you have left (10-11 days?) don't move around too much within Italy. Save Rome for the last 2-3 days of your trip, since you have to fly out of there. Have fun!