Itinerary - Please Critique

I think a good rule of thumb is three days per site, maybe one day to travel to it, at least two days stay. For the German part of your trip Bacharach to Munich, I see 12 days, on 7 of which you will spend most of the day traveling. You will spend 2 nights each in 5 places, 1 night in 1 place. That's too hectic a pace.

I'll only comment on Germany, as I have spent 84 days there this century.

You have only one full day in Bacharach. There is so much more to see on the middle Rhein. You have only a night in Rothenburg, but travel from Mainz and to Berlin will take most of the days on either side. You have only one full day in Munich and you will spend most of that full day traveling to/from Neuschwanstein.

I guess if your objective here is just to impress your friends with the number of famous names you have "been to", you'll have accomplished your mission, but if you actually want to experience Europe, no. Spend more time in Bacharach, Rothenburg, and Munich.

Concentrate on quality, not quantity.

Oh, and by the way, learn to spell "Salzburg".

while i appreciate your comments, kind of an assy reply. maybe you were just kidding. of course i don't want to just impress my friends. i've already been to enough countries to fill a passport (with added pages).

i've already "been to" enough countries to fill a passport (with added pages).

My point, exactly.

I'm impressed!! I wish I had five weeks to travel!
Salzburg is VERY worth it!!! I went there November 2006. It snowed some of the days and it was so beautiful! The Sound Of Music tour is wonderful even though it's touristy. The mountains had thick snow and I made the most beautiful Christmas cards from the pictures of the snowy mountains. Imagine, the bushes even had red berries on them. Perfect Christmas pictures. GO TO SALZBURG PLEASE!!!
I agree with Kent about spending more time in Rome. I was there a full week in 2005, and didn't see everything I wanted to see! I'll be back there, I'm sure. My parents lived in Rome before I was born. I sure wish they could have shared Rome with me, but better late than never!

lee - assy

kent - good suggestions. i agree with adding a day to rome and subtracting from vernazza. and i think i agree with you re: paris. i have not been before. i'm thinking it might be the perfect ending spot for the trip.

lisa - such are the benefits of being a contractor/self employed. i am very fortunate to be able to get the time to go for that long as well as being able to travel over there using miles. i never would have been able to go somewhere for 5 weeks working in my past corporate job. i'll definately consider salzburg. i need to read up on it and understand where it is in relation to everything else.

also - i'm not sure about vienna. is this worth it to include?

Vienna is a three hour or less train trip from Salzburg. Very much worth it.
I'm also self employed and run my own music school. I have to keep that school going, so I can't leave for very long.
You will have a wonderful trip!!

It seems like you are jumping around a lot, doubling back on yourself. I would do Germany, then Austria, then Switzerland, and so on. Get a map out and try to condense some of your travel. For example: you are in Munich, then Salzburg, then you go on to Venice. Why not go on to Vienna, and the Swiss Alps. When you are in Amsterdam, go on to Brussels and Brugge, then down to Paris, over to Cologne and the Rhine river towns, like Bacharach. They are all close to each other. As far as the previous posters comments, the train to Berlin from Frankfurt is only 4 hours. We left at 0700 and got to Berlin at 1100. This is not a whole day wasted. Paris was also only 4 hours from Frankfurt. Check your train connections and see what is the most advantageous for you. Cologne has trains going on to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, etc. for good prices. With the ICE it is only 55 minutes away from Frankfurt. We do have the fast trains here, as does France.

you are right - i'm sure i am unnessarily jumping around alot. i've looked at a map online but i really need a big foldout map where i can plot each step.

It's hard to say too much not knowing where you've been already. London has so much to see, and you schedule depends on how well you do with jet lag (my first day is never worth much).

You may want to think about adding another night to Rothenburg, as it does take a couple of connections to get there, if you'r by train. Which is a good question -- how are you travelling. Rothenburg is one of our favorites.

I wouldn't miss Venice if I could, and one full day plus time on either side can give you a good feel for it. I'm not crazy about Florence, but the art and few sights there are completely unique. We stayed in Siena and did Florence as a full day-trip. I agree that you may have too much time in Vernazza, though one of our days there we spend on a day trip to Lucca.

Otherwise, Rome is unbelievable -- imagine vespas whizzing past the Colosseum as part of everyday life. So much history and beauty. Read up and see if you'd want another day. And finally, it's easy to spend several days in Paris. In addition to the blockbuster sites, it's the city I could most just enjoy sitting in a cafe and watching the world go by.

It's all a question of your interests. Enjoy --

i haven't really been many places in europe. i've been to london a few times - mostly on long layovers. my main objective for london this trip is to hang out with a friend, get over jet lag and maybe do some light sight seeing. i've been to berlin a few times to visit friends and that is about it.

i am planning to mostly travel by rail unless flights end up being cheaper.

i guess it comes down to choosing which cities to take out: florence, salzburg, or vienna. and i guess i need to choose between the swiss alps (grimmlewald) or like was suggested mittenwald.

i really appreicate everyone's help with this.

i reposted my updated itinerary at the top of this page. as you can see (the number go to 37 days and not 35 days like it should) i need to cut out two days. i'm thinking it will be one of the extra days in bacharach, rothenburg, munich or salzburg. or just cut out vienna or salzburg altogether.

i know someone commented that i seemed not to be taking the most direct route. i tried to fix that. i know that i am going from germany (berlin) > prague > vienna > back to germany, but this seemed the most direct route??

also, i decided for now to cut florence. i think i'll get what i need from rome, venice and vernazza.

kent! you have all helped . . . but must get rid of two days. also, now i'm thinking about trying to add mittenwald - wonder if it's possible . . .

hahaha - i think i can't. i'm supposed to meet a friend there. same with berlin.

what if i cut rothenburg but then took that bus on "the romantic road" from frankfurt to munich. does this bus/tour still run? i would have to rework the trip, but that would at least get two hours in rothenburg.

thoughts?

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/destinations/germany/romantic_road.htm

Well, you know how I feel. I agree with Linda and Jim!
I've never been to Munich, and would love to go someday. Very different from Berlin! Berlin is more a modern city. I enjoyed Berlin! Rick Steves said in his travel class that now, if someone says to him they have a short time to travel and they have to choose either Munich or Berlin, Choose Berlin! Ricks loves Berlin! However, didn't you say you've been to Berlin before?

now i'm getting OCD. itinerary 2.0 - not sure if it is better or worse. still need to cut a day out somewhere.

(1) Arrive London @ 7:15am
(2) London
(3) Fly to Zurich > travel to Interlaken
(4) Swiss Alps (Interlaken)
(5) Swiss Alps (Gimmelwald)
(6) Gimmelwald / travel to Salzburg
(7) Salzburg
(8) Salzburg / Munich
(9) Munich ("Mad" King Ludwig's fairy-tale castles)
(10) Munich
(11) Munich / travel to Frankfurt on Romantic Road bus tour, stopping in Rothenburg / travel to Mainz
(12) Mainz
(13) Mainz / travel to Bacarach
(14) Bacarach (tour St. Goar's Rheinfels Castle)
(15) Bacarach
(16) Bacarach / travel to Berlin
(17) Berlin
(18) Berlin / travel to Prague
(19) Prague
(20) Prague / travel to Vienna
(21) Vienna
(22) Vienna / travel to Venice
(23) Venice
(24) Venice / Rome
(25) Rome
(26) Rome
(27) Rome / travel to Cinque Terre (Vernazza)
(28) Vernazza
(29) Vernazza / travel to Paris
(30) Paris
(31) Paris
(32) Paris / travel to Amsterdam
(33) Amsterdam
(34) Amsterdam
(35) Amsterdam / fly to London
(36) Fly home

Can you explain why you don't go to Vienna when you are in Austria visiting Salzburg?

you guys are awesome! thanks so much for your comments. i really appreciate it. and yes! anyone is welcome to come along with me on itinerary 3.5!

lisa - yes i have been to berlin, twice, each for 10 days +. i love it. then again, i love every foreign city. i've never been to a city i didn't like and i've stayed some places some people don't typically appreicate: cairo, karachi, kabul, etc.

i really expected you guys to be harder on me about the pace of my trip. then again, i had a good week to read ALOT of "critique my trip" posts. in version .50 of my itinerary i was going to a different city every day and sleeping on the train every night!

i'm not leaving for another 7 weeks, but i feel very good about my itinerary right now. i'm going to book my flights in and out of london (sale on easyjet ends today).

thanks again and you're welcome to follow my travels in october! i'll post the link to my blog closer to the time i leave.

it seemed more direct this way? maybe i am wrong. maybe the other way was better. here is a link to the map if it helps you have a visual:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=116497409561787248640.000453b14b58ab5f1b1cf&ll=48.166085,5.559082&spn=7.782254,28.037109&z=6

Are you aware that the Romantic Road Coach (Eurabus) arrives in Rothenburg at Schrannenplatz at 16:00 and leaves at 16:35. Do you really think that 35 minutes is enough time to adequately see Rothenburg?

The bus arrives first at the Bhf at 15:55. I guess you could get off their and walk to Schrannenplatz, but you would have to be careful not to be late and miss the bus.

Lisa: Lee's correct about the RR bus - it is a huge waste of your time. It pokes along and gives you virtually no time in the towns you pass through. Much better to just use the train to specific towns.

Days 12-16 - nice amount of time for the Rhine, but what's with all the time in Mainz?? I used to live there and often recommend it as a pre-flight stop; it's a nice town, but not exceptional. I'd suggest stopping on Day 12 in Würzburg to see the Residenz - fantastic - and proceed to Mainz for one night only if you have some things you specifically must see there. Otherwise head straight to Bacharach. Rheinfels is interesting but Marksburg (Braubach) and Burg Eltz (near Moselkern) are much more interesting to tour - they're real castles, not ruins. I'd suggest 2-3 nights in Bacharach and 2-3 nights on the Mosel River - Cochem is probably best; it has its own castle and is drop-dead gorgeous. Visit Trier if interested in Roman history.

www.burg-eltz.de

www.marksburg.de

www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/moselhighengl/moselhighlightsengl.html

russ - i have a friend who lives in mainz that i'm going to visit. maybe i can make her go to bacarach with me and that way i would have an extra day there.

thanks for the tips about the castles - will look in them.

It seems like your latest itinerary is a good one. Busy but with enough days in each place to not kill yourself. The travel days can a real drain physically and mentally.

Gute Reise!

Please don't cut out Salzburg like someone suggested. That would be sinful! However, Salzburg is fairly small and doesn't take that long to see. Such a charming place! Two days there, or even 1 1/2 days would be fine. I stayed there for a full week, but that's because I'm a professional musician. Salzburg is huge on music since that's where Mozart was raised. Even if music isn't your thing, Salzburg is filled with charm, and not overwhelming to get around in. Beautiful, relaxing town.
Florance Italy is filled with charm too! You have to find these things out for yourself, because people have different tastes. But I can't even imagine not liking Florance or Salzburg!

never fear! for now salzburg remains. i did decide to cut munich though because i have 2 nights in reutte to see the castles and two days in salzburg. didn't seem like there were a ton of reasons to go into munich. i also added a night in mittenwald as some had suggested. i've updated the itinerary in the top post (now version 3.0).

Of course there are a ton of reason to go into Munich... but not necessarily on this trip... (Munich's my fave, but doesn't always fit...)

I like your version 3.0.

It does look like a bit of a double-back, but working around certain dates and seeing friends it doesn't bother me a bit. I may have missed it, but you're going back to Mittenwald a 2nd time after Vienna -- Is there a reason you are doing that instead of an overnight train Vienna to Venice? I love working it at least one overnight 1st class sleeping berth per trip... but I love that overnight train experience...

i think it's getting there. i will have to think about munich vs. salzburg and decide which to keep for this trip.

and no! good catch - that was a mistake on my part to list mittenwald twice. yay! that means two extra days! i updated the intinerary up top and here is a link to a map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=49.037868,11.337891&spn=7.649465,19.6875&z=6

Hi Lisa,

I just got back from touring Italy but have been in a lot of the places you are going. Salzburg or Munich?.....no comparison. Definitely Salzburg! Munich is big city where Salzburg has so much charm and beauty. Surprisingly, no one has brought up Hallstat which is a 1 hr train ride from Salzburg. It is heaven-on-earth. I know you are already tight on time but if you can possibly squeeze it in, you won't be sorry (see RS's write-up on it). Have a great trip....planning it is always one of the best parts of a trip.

I like version 3.5 a lot... can I go?

You got to squeeeeeze in a little Munich... but if you decide it's too tight, I agree with the last poster. Based on the flavor of your trip, time in Salzburg is more important than Munich... and if you have to streamline 3.5... I would toss Munich first on this list...