Itinerary Planning Tips - Not Just for First Timers

Itinerary Planning Tips for First Timers, Part 2: Here are other itinerary planning tips from Rick's "Planning Your Itinerary" chapter of Europe Through the Backdoor): "1. Read up on Europe and talk to other travelers (we can help with that step)2. Decide on the places you want to see3. Establish a route and timeline, using a map and the websites mentioned above4. Decide on the cities you will fly in and out of5. Determine the mode of transportation within Europe (train, car, or air)6. Make a rough itinerary7. Adjust by cutting, streamlining, or adding to fit your timeline or budget (we can help here)8. Fine tune (we can help on that)."For further explanations on how to do all this, you can buy Rick's Europe Through the Back Door.

Good post and points Kent, just want to also add that posters must at least let us know what THEY like and dislike. Museums or mountain hikes etc. It is so hard to help when people don't include enough information.
It is also a huge help if they give some idea of their budget, in EUROS.

"We" will also remember that everyone learns and interacts with people differently. "We" will realize that not everyone is able to sit down for hours on end and read everything Rick has ever written. So "We" will be patient with people who need advice. Afterall, there was a time when "we" needed help, and someone gave it to us!

I agree with Kent. You have to do some of the work yourself. Read, search the internet. All of us who have made it to this site should be pretty expert at doing this, and have some knowledge of Rick and his books and TV shows. This is where you should start, in my opinion. They have all the basics. Then you will be better prepared to ask specific questions. I admit I am puzzled by the several posters who say "I'm going to Europe -- where should I go?, what should I do?, can I see 10 European cities in 4 countries in 2 weeks?" We all want to be helpful but these basic questions are too daunting for most of us who don't have the time to re-write Rick's guidebooks. I ignore these questions and respond to those seeking specific advice or personal recommendations. I think should just be the icing on the cake for up-to-the-minute info, diverse personal views and new suggestions.

Fabulous suggestions - but my husband & I have worked up a technique that might work for other spouses, friends, sibs (or whatEVER kind of travel partners you are...) - I LOVE to make the arrangements & come up with the destinations. We like to do "small bites," where we "do" one area (say, the Lake District of England) for a week then another area (like London) for another week. We like to think we'll get back to England (which we have about 6 times) to see other areas another time. I do pretty much all the arrangements online, do some research about a few things I'd like to see, then turn it all over to my husband who adores poring over the details. He's very good about taking my son & me into consideration when he plans, maps & concocts routes & visits, but he always gets in some obscure things he feels proud to have found. Consequently, we always get a great trip with some of the "must sees" along with a lot of little attractions that give us a very interesting experience. I can tell you, I've seen more "pre history" sites (stone circles, cairns, Roman Fort ruins, etc.) and obscure museums than I'd have EVER seen if it hadn't been for my husbands (very welcome) influences!

Part II - Our most recent trip to the Lake District Oct. '07 was a perfect example of the kind of travel we like to do: we exchanged our timeshare for a week in a condo in the Lake District, then used it as a base for day trips. We've done similar trips in Paris, the Cotswolds, London, etc. My only real vice is that whenever we do a portion of England, I always have to add 4-7 days in London - I just can't stay away if I'm that close! We did a Mediterranean cruise a couple years ago, which was nice, because the ship is basically a "floating hotel" and you don't have to pack & unpack, move from place to place and you wake up at your destination fresh. We chose this cruise because the ship & hotels were the only "musts" and we could do whatever we wanted in between, including take advantage of offshore outings or do our own (which is what we did). In Oct. '06 we took a tour to China (only 9 people in the whole group, so it was very manageable & we didn't feel like a "herd") which was similar to a cruise - someone else makes arrangements & gets you there, but there's some autonomy built in. Generally we like to do our own planning, but in China you can do and see more with "locals" to help you make arrangements. The tour company we used had very good guides who listened to our needs & helped us have a great trip.

Thanks Kent for taking time to post some guidelines for planning an itinerary. Rick Steves has taken a lot of the guesswork out of trip preparation. When I'm planning a trip I first consult Rick's proposed itineraries for the country or city that I'm visiting and then try to match his plan with my allotted time and my interests. Half the fun of traveling is anticipating and planning the journey! The cost of the books is a small price to pay for excellent planning tools plus, they are available for free at most local libraries.

I have found an invaluable tool in European trip planning. It is called the internet.


Helpful websites for new travelers - in addition to Kent's suggestions:


French Railway Site

List of Other National European Rail Sites

Rail Europe - useful for reserving trains while still in North America/UK

Interactive Rail Map of Europe

Eurostar

Interactive Map of Paris Metro

How to Survive Long Flights

Rail Tips


A list of links on travel in France is available upon request.

AWSOMEEEE TIPS FOR FIRST TIMERS AND you should see some of the work I have done and with help with people online I should be able to pull of this trip I am planning.

KEWL

Another place to check out points of interest for you first timers: mytravelguide.com/attractions; activitaly.it; tours-italy.com/rome/fountains; www.enjoyrome.com/walking; about.com
Just google rome and what interests you. You will find so much information.

Good point Jed. It sounds like you are doing good research and will have a great trip. I know it will, but even if your trip does not go exactly as you plan it, you will learn a lot and future trips will be even better. If you're going to get out of your comfort zone, I think Europe is the place to do it -- it's pretty comfortable over there too!

For first-time travelers to Europe who don't know how to plan their trip I suggest taking a tour. There are plenty: Europe Thru The Back Door, Trafalgar, etc. A guideline I would suggest (if you don't take a tour) is schedule one country or city per week of vacation. Please consult guidebooks. It is not necessary to read the whole thing; some of them are almost impossible to read that way. It seems that many first timers want to cover all of Europe. If you are traveling alone and are young enough to have the energy, that might work. I covered great swaths of Europe on my first European trip about 40-years ago. I had a Eurail Pass and traveled through about 8 countries in 4 weeks. A lot of that time was spent on trains, even overnight. I saw a sampling of lots of places, fell in love with Paris and returned there later the same trip. Hopping on and off trains was easy then. I wouldn't try this with children. It might work if traveling with only one other person

Great tips here for anyone who is beginning planning. Great work everyone. Just please remember that the people who are asking these questions with so little detail aren't doing it because they're stupid or lazy. They've just never done this before. They don't know what kind of detail they're missing!

Yes, it's true that there are other places to check for more information. But please keep in mind that the purpose of this Helpline is to have travelers of all levels help each other out, not for experienced travelers to have a message board where they can spout off to one another. Us experienced travelers will end up answering the same question 50 times, but that's what the Helpline is here for. If you're looking for a travel message board then perhaps you should talk to the people who manage this website about creating one. Oops, there is one already.

None of us mind helping people with questions, or we wouldn't be here. But there is a difference between helping with hotel recommendations, information, confusing train schedules, or the newest airline rules and flat out planning someone's itinerary from beginning to end when they themselves don't know what they want to do. People who need beginning-to-end travel planning should be talking to a travel agent or looking at tours for their first trip. That kind of planning is not the function of the helpline. And the suggestion of looking at tour itineraries to get an idea of how to pace a trip is a great one, too. Everyone here, new or not, has some proficiency in using the internet, which is the best resource there is for preliminary planning. Public libraries have travel guides available that can give potential travelers in idea of what there is to see and do in a location, too.

As someone new to this site and planning our first trip to Europe I would agree with all that has been said above. This site has been invaluable to our planning and the advice we've received from experienced travelers has been invaluable. Kent especially has taken a fair amount of time to answer many of my questions-Thank you!(and all others who have offered advice!)

As you all probably remember when you planned your first trip, there is a lot of anxiety and a feeling of being overwhelmed with all the info in Rick's books. and on this site, so being able to ask questions has been invaluable. I think the intent of the site is (and should be) to help people with specifics or to get started on planning. Being in the midst of planning such a big trip though, I can see the feeling of being overwhelmed that has many people posting for major help. Unlike a lot of other sites, what distinguishes the frequent posters here is the kindness shown to "impossible/vague" questions. Thanks!

I suggest that first time travelers to Europe be as organized as they can be, and not be anxious. I am a late middle aged, single woman who has gone to Europe several times, starting 6 years ago. I took care of the anxiety I had by going on a Rick Steves' city tour to Paris. Once I experienced that I lost my anxiety about planning a trip to Europe, or making my way around -- my interest and knowledge just grew from there. I now organize trips for my family and friends. For first-timers or solo travelers, this may be a good way to start. But you can get almost exactly the same experience as an RS tour, by reading his guides. So all the basics are available to you, if you take the time to read and can organize your thoughts. I have some decent advice to give, but I pass up the really vague questions -- I don't have the time or energy to write volumes, so I only respond to specific questions that have a point. But if others are happy to deal with vague general cries for help so be it! Everyone's needs are met!

Kent: This sure is a pretty unique place! The expertise offered by posters is wonderful!

BG: I agree that we should all try not to be anxious, though there is always going to be some of that when one undertakes such a big task as planning a trip to Europe for the first time(Especially if you're Type A like me!). Of course the best cure for the anxiousness is preparation, preparation, preparation! We've been to 2 travel consults at Rick's office, read tons of his books (I have 5 sitting here right now!) and have spent hours on this site, though I am still a little anxious about things(though it's a lot less than 6 months ago!). We thought about a tour, but part of the "specialness" of a trip is doing it ourselves, and besides a little anxiety is good for you! Makes you come out of your comfort zone and grow! I'm to the point now where I can't wait to go!!

Plus, some of the best memories of trips are when things go wrong!

I just read this post from the Graffiti Wall "Has Travel Changed You?" topic, the latest posting -- and I have to copy it here, it is so great!

Truman Capote
He traveled in Europe before most of us. In his book Portraits and Observations, he says "In London a young artist said to me 'How wonderful it must be for an American traveling in Europe the first time; you can never be part of it, so none of the pain is yours, you will never have to endure it--yes, for you there is only the beauty."

My pet peeve is always the posts that say something like "We have a week and want to see London, France, Switzerland, Amsterdam, and Italy." Is that possible? I always refrain from saying something like "Have you looked at a map?" or "Would you try to see LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, and the Grand Canyon in a week?"

Now to be constructive, one thing that I have found helpful is a "Rail Map of Europe". The copy I have is by Map Link. It shows the major train routes in Europe, the number of hours to connect various cities, and the frequency. This gives me a really high level idea of what routes might work. This does not show all the possibilities and it neglects many of the small towns, but it is a start.

I also concur with all the recommendations for reading "Europe through the Back Door". I read this more than 20 years ago before my first solo trip to Europe and it was really helpful. It is a great primer on how to travel in Europe.

Kent, I think you're right. It's been great info for new travelers but it's also been a good refresher for experienced travelers. I've learned a lot of new things from this thread as well!

Personally I think anyone taking a trip to Europe for the first time should go on a tour with a reputable company. I traveled to many European countries and the best trips I had was when I traveled with a group. The tour operators know exactly where to take you and give you plenty of free time. If you prefer you can always extend your stay and venture off on your own as I often do. I think the helpline is a great source of obtaining information but I would not depend on the opinion of others to plan my trip of a lifetime. If anyone is uncertain of where to go and what to do in Europe then for sure they need to talk with a professional travel agent.

In response to Greg's post I'm sorry but I would disagree. I'm in my late 40s, hubby older and we did our first trip in 2006. The things I did to increase our comfort zone were: had a phone consult - all the way from Australia with the Rick Steves' people; bought a railpass and did all possible train reservations before we left; prebooked all accommodation; had a TA find the flights there and back and took her advice re open jaws; read "a bit" and used this web site. We got lost once or twice, but nothing that was a disaster. We had no real language skills between us, but we had a great comfortable wonderful 5 week trip.

Next time I won't get a railpass - destination dependent, but buy ptp.

Did I fail to mention that when we got there I realised I hadn't packed all the appropraite guidebooks! Did it matter no, although a couple of times we weren't really sure where we were or what we were looking at.

I think it's horses for courses, and if you think you can do it - do.

I also disagree with Greg.To be packed in a bus following a umbrella at each stop & being told how long you have for each stop is not my idea of a vacation.However there are lots of tours for those who like them.

I mostly agree with Ken- if you're going to spend money on a European trip, you really need to do a good bit of research yourself, or pay a travel agent for their services. Its your money, you need to decide where best to spend it.

Very few of us who post here have any connection at all to the travel industry. We will gladly make recommendations based on our own experiences and opinions... but don't expect to receive professional research travel research here... well, at least not from me!

I would ask those of us offering helpful advice to aid the situation by reading the ORIGINAL post. I was taken to task by the umpteenth respondent for not providing more information when in reality I had: he/she didn't scroll all the way up to the information in my original post. At the very least, read the original post BEFORE chastising.

That being said I have been helped greatly by this helpline (Thanks!) My suggestion to those with questions would be to understand that one post will not suffice. Follow up questions will be necessary AND will be great sources of information. The give and take of planning is half the fun (IMHO)

Hi,
I'm not a first time europe traveler...but this is the first time traveling in Italy and France. Here's the outline...flying into Venice (10/23) Leaving from Paris (11/4). Planning on a few days on either end in Venice and Paris respectively. I'm looking for suggestions for the time in between as well as Paris/Venice. Not adverse to renting cars but currently leaning to rail at this point. What we like: the local (back door type thing)feel, fond of the local version of the pub scene...not the club scene...local markets...local mass transit...local shops and festivals. A museum or two is nice...but its more fun to people watch in a town square. Love it when we can find locals who want to chat at the pub or square. Hate the "tourist feel" of big groups going thru sites. Experiencing local wine at a local vinyard with the wine maker is a great time. Big city/small city/hamlet or town, all have things we enjoy. Thoughts,especially around how much time is the "right amount"

Kent,
Thanks for the reply...We were looking at 3 days in Venice and 3 days in Paris as of last night...up for suggestions that would extend either end with fun/interesting things. Really trying to puzzle out what to do in between Venice and Paris...been looking at Rick's Italy book and Milan is a way point with good train access, but if there are other "out of the way" stops in between I'd love to do some research. I guess we are trying to expand our "feel" for the continent by not dashing from venice to paris on an overnight train and missing the people/sites/culture in between. We've had great experiences off the beaten path in Scottland, Ireland, UK, India (and the US) and want to capture some of the less commercialized/touristy feel. I'm feeling that 2 quality spots in between would give us enough time to enjoy the local flavor and still keep us on track to make or departure flight without undo stress. What do you think?

Start at the library. Travel books, videos, language tapes are all free to check out. While you will need up to date travel books for your trip, checking out a variety will help you decide what to see and when to go.

Along with planning an itinerary, a budget is important early in your process. It can help you decide how much you can afford or how to get the most for your money.

I tend to have several ideas for trips in mind until I check out prices. If I can save $500-1000 per person by choosing one itinerary over another, I probably will.

Take advantage of the travel books in your local library -- a first money-saving step in travel planning. Find a comfy chair in your local bookstore and check out details in some other travel books. Be sure to take notes.
If you have a computer and access to the internet (obviously you do, or you wouldn't be reading this), planning a trip to Europe is very doable. It can be very time-consuming, but is so very rewarding when your trip is successful.
Kent is so correct about calculating in your travel time. You certainly don't want to spend all your time travelling to a location and then not having enough time to see the location! Remember -- you can't see everything! You should have a list of 1)absolutely can't miss, 2) would really like to see, 3)nice to see if possible, and 4) forget it. This will make it easier to plan your time.

Am not a first timer by any means but besides the Travellers' Helpline, the one website that I endorse and believe would help a lot of 1st timers is 'Google Earth'. It's free to download, gives you a perspective of time/distance in Europe, provides hotel/eating reviews, accurate road 'maps' and if the satellite shot is particularly clear for the area you choose, you can almost see what the folks at the outdoor cafe are eating/drinking/reading the day big brother was watching. You can even zoom-in and see how many trees, buildings, street crossings, and dog poops (no, not quite) between Paris Gare Nord and your hotel. I'm an old coot and still learning to navigate the Google Earth system but the info contained therein, once you play around a bit, is incredible & especially intriguing for 'nosey parkers'; like me......

Geoff, thanks for that tip!

P.S. Hoping not to see the dog poop. :-)

Kent,
Hope you don't mind if I bring this back again! There's a lot of great info here...

I just want to say Thanks to all of you.

Kent, your info is always great and the advice everyone else gives is really helpful.

I am not a First Timer (2 years backpacking Years & Years ago) but while planning this trip (with 2 "tweens")I was stressing over everything. It was great to hear some of my concerns felt by others, and reading the replys.

Its great that there always seems to be someone who is willing to answer even the silly questions (and, well, some of them are silly)

Keep up the Great Advice.
Everyone needs a Refresher once in a while.

Looks like it's time to bring this topic back--first timers may want to see the original post and bookmark the rail planning and/or road trip planning websites.

When I am planning a trip, I start a Word document for my trip planning. I then do a lot of cutting and pasting from this website and other sites when I read some valuable info. I can always refer back to the document easier than reading through all the posts.

I wish the RS webmaster would put the most current comments at the top so we wouldn't have to scroll through comments already read.

Thanks for the reminders and couldn't agree more with you.

Thanks, Kent! The Driving Trip Planning site is excellent. I am a veteran of many road trips stateside (especially on the west coast), so I am excited to see the great driving times. I have done Los Angeles to Tacoma straight through more than a couple of times.

Audrey said, "I wish the RS webmaster would put the most current comments at the top so we wouldn't have to scroll through comments already read."

There's no need to scroll through comments you've already read. Do a "find" for the date of newest posts. Press the "control" key and the "f" key at the same time. In the box which comes up, insert, for instance, "8/11", and your screen will display the first 8/11 post.

You could also press "control" and the "end" key simultaneously to go to the bottom of the page.

Looks like it may be helpful to bring back this topic--the first two posts explain the basics of itinerary planning, these are a paraphrase of what Rick says in his book Europe Through the Back Door.

Another great way is to start with someone elses plan;

http://gadtravel.blogspot.com/

Looks like it's time to bring back this topic from last year--see the original post and discussion of itinerary planning. There's a big difference between knowingly planning a rushed itinerary and unknowingly getting yourself into one because you didn't know the travel time between your destinations. Each person or group travels differently: some prefer a more relaxed itinerary and some want to blitz it. We're not trying to tell you how to travel, just helping you to know what you're getting into--so that your # of destinations fits your total days and the travel times between your destinations.

Audrey...I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who keeps a "Europe Scraps" (as I call it)Its a Word doc that when surfing the net for info..if I see a restaurant review, or a hotel thats recommended...I copy and paste into the scrapbook.

As the day gets closer I go in and clean it up so its in some sort of order. Print it off and stick it in my bag