Itinerary help for first backpacking trip

You need to find a different planning method - other than using the Eurail map! Plan your trip based on the stops you want to go to! If it's in a country covered by the pass then your pass will work to get you there. Granted it may require an additional reservation - mostly in France. I've been to Freiburg with a railpass:) It's a wonderful city especially for young people! Personally I would skip both Zurich and Bern and spend some time in the Berner Oberland, but be aware that your pass will only get you a discount on many of the high lifts. The trains in that area are privately run, but it's the best place in Switzerland IMHO.

If you don't have it - I would suggest buying RS Europe through the back door. It has planning advice and I think will come with a planning map of Europe. It really helps to have a paper map to work out a logical route. If you don't want to invest in the book then a lot of the information is available on this website via the travel tips tab. Because you will have a continuous pass you have so many possibilities! You can base yourself and do daytrips very easily also at no additional travel cost!

You are learning the next problem with Eurail, their map only shows places they want you to go.
I keep the InterRail (Eurail's European counterpart) Map on my desk-top because it is a handy reference to the main rail lines, but nowhere an encyclopedic map with everything.

If you want to go to Freiburg (am Breisgau, Germany right?) then go there. I would skip Zurich and go to Luzern or somewhere in the high Swiss Alps, but that's just me.

The best site to research all the railway routes in Europe is the Deutsche Bahn route planner:
https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query.exe/en

Just put in PARIS (all caps gives any of the several Paris stations) to Freiburg am Breisgau and bam, all the trains that day that will get you there. You will have to change trains along the way.

Trains will get you just about anywhere in Europe, and if not, close with connecting local buses.

Better look at a map of Europe and decide where YOU want to go, then the DB route planner on how to get there on the trains.

Cody, outside of Switzerland, as long as you're traveling through countries that accept the Eurail Pass, you can get to just about any town with a train station. You can determine whether a rail station is present by going to the Deutsche Bahn website and entering your hypothetical origin and destination.

I make an exception for Switzerland because I think it has a fair number of cog-wheel and rack railways in mountainous areas that are not covered (or are not fully covered) by the rail pass. And most people's major reason to go to Switzerland is to get up high up in the mountains. There are almost certainly a few other non-covered stretches of railroad scattered around Europe, but I think it's fairly unlikely that you'd be planning to use those special trains on this trip.

As I believe I said in your earlier thread, I think you've got too many destinations on your list, given how far apart they are and the fact that so many of them are large cities. The big places take longer to get settled in and longer to see. I don't believe you have time to make extra stops along the way unless you shrink the geographical extent of your trip and drop some of the current destinations.

If you want to think about doing that (which I encourage), you can determine what places are on the direct route between each pair of cities by looking at the Deutsche Bahn route and clicking on "Show details" for one of the options. Then click on "Show intermediate stops". If you've chosen a slow train, you'll have many stops; if you've chosen a fast train, there will be fewer. Sometimes there are different routes available between City A and City B, opening up different stopover options.

Without knowing what part of your proposed itinerary you're prepared to (possibly) drop, I don't know what to suggest in terms of adding stops. Europe is full of wonderful places. I've forgotten the timing of your trip. If you're traveling during cold weather, I'd be looking at some extra time in Italy or Greece. If you're traveling in the summer, I'd consider options farther north (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany) or in mountainous areas (northern Italy, Switzerland--though very expensive, Austria).

Of the places you list, these are the ones I wouldn't include in your 60-day trip given the limited time you have available; others will no doubt disagree.

• Brussels
• Bern (and Bern is, to me, more interesting than Zurich)
• Milan
• Bucharest (you need a whole trip for the Balkans)
• maybe Naples, depending on your plans there
• maybe Lyon. I like it, but on a first trip, I'd probably spend the time trying to see some smaller places somewhere.

Edited to add: From a planning/logistical standpoint, it's sort of a shame that your must-see list includes two places near the edge of Europe: Dublin and Athens. Those would have been the first two places I'd have eliminated. I would never recommend that someone fly to Greece and see only Athens, but you may not have much choice about that for lack of time, given that you have so many widely-scattered places you want to see.

@acraven, I’m looking to visit some small towns while I’m in my longer stops as those stops are partially used as a place to be based out of and to take day trips from. For example, when I’m in Athens, I’m planning to spend a day or two island hopping and visiting places like Sparta and Olympia. The main reason I’m not cutting Greece out of my trip is that I’m really in love with Greek mythology and I could very easily convince myself to spend the whole 2 months in Greece haha (maybe next time). As for Dublin, that’s going to be where I’m based for Ireland, and I plan on going around Ireland with a couple day trips. Switzerland on the other hand isn’t as high on my list of “must sees” and with the high price point there I really just want to see a town by the alps and possibly overnight there on my way from France or Freiburg to Italy.

As for the map on Eurail’s website, it’s great to hear that I’m not limited to the few destinations on their map, and that I can visit some smaller towns. I would really love some recommendations for some smaller towns to visit since (as of right now) my trip is pretty much all cities while I’ve imagined seeing small local towns and actually getting to experience the different places Europe has to offer. I grew up in a small town in the mountains before moving to a city, and the people and sights in small towns are a lot better in my oppinion, so it’d be really cool to see more small towns than cities while I’m on my trip. Thanks everyone!

I love the smaller places; they feel more foreign to me. You're less likely to see Starbucks and MacDonalds there. But I just don't see how you're going to fit in all of what you want to do. Every time you change hotels, you lose a big chunk of that day. With the distances you're planning to cover, some of those transfers will cost you 5 to 8 hours. And as you have your trip laid out, you're going to be doing that at least twenty times.

As a result, on average you'd have just a bit over 2 full days at each of your stops. It sounds as if you plan to spend extra time in Greece and Ireland. That will mean even less time in other places. (Also note that you may need to buy bus tickets in Greece.) When are you going to have time to get out of those big cities and see neighboring towns? Places like London, Paris, Rome and Berlin can keep you occupied for a week or more. It just doesn't add up for me.

A couple of points ...
1. I’ve left out London and UK which are easily done another time.
2. You don’t mention the time gap between Dublin-Paris and Paris-LAX flights.
3. Is 60 days an overall time frame ?

Day
1. Arrive in Paris (5N)
2. Paris
3. Paris
4. Paris
5. Versailles
6. Train via Brussels to Ghent (3N)
7. Ghent
8. Bruges
9. Train via Antwerp to Amsterdam (4N)
10. Amsterdam
11. Haarlem & The Hague
12. Amsterdam
13. Train to Berlin (4N)
14. Berlin
15. Berlin
16. Berlin
17. Train to Prague (3N)
18. Prague
19. Prague
20. Train to Budapest (4N)
21. Budapest
22. Budapest
23. Budapest
24. Train to Vienna (3N)
25. Vienna
26. Vienna
27. Train to Salzburg (2N)
28. Salzburg
29. Train to Munich (4N)
30. Munich
31. Munich
32. Munich / Neuschwanstein
33. Train via Zurich to Luzern (2N)
34. Luzern / Pilatus
35. Train to Lauterbrunnen (3N)
36. Lauterbrunnen / Murren
37. Lauterbrunnen / Wengen
38. Train to Milan (3N)
39. Milan
40. Milan / Lake Como
41. Train to Venice (3N)
42. Venice
43. Venice
44. Train to Florence (4N)
45. Florence
46. Florence / Pisa
47. Florence / Siena
48. Train to Rome (4N)
49. Rome
50. Rome
51. Rome
52. Fly to Athens (4N)
53. Athens
54. Athens
55. Athens
56. Fly to Dublin (4N)
57. Dublin
58. Dublin
59. Dublin
60. Fly to Paris (1N)
61. Depart for LAX

My suggestion would be very similar to the Itinerary that David posted. It's very easy to underestimate the time it takes to travel from one location to another, and a slower pace will provide a better trip.

One thing to keep in mind with RyanAir is that sometimes they use very out-of-the-way airports, and one good example of that is Paris. RyanAir flights actually arrive at Beauvais, which is some distance from the city so you'll have to budget extra time and money for that. I normally use EasyJet when possible as I've always been pleased with their service.

As this is your first trip, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to the trip, as that provides a lot of good information on how to travel well in Europe. You may want to have a look at other Rick Steves Guidebooks listed on this website.

As others have mentioned, forget the Eurail map! If you're going to be ordering any guidebooks, I'd suggest ordering one of these also - https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/p/europe-travel-map .

One important point to note about Eurail passes, is that these do not include the compulsory seat reservations, and that's important especially in Italy and France. Passholder reservations in France are limited, and once they're sold out for a particular train, you wouldn't be able to get a reservation even if there are still seats available. If you're caught without a valid reservation for the train you're riding on in Italy, you'll be subject to hefty fines which will be collected on the spot!

For the trip from London to Edinburgh, I'd suggest going by train as it will be about the same time, but a much more pleasant trip.

I agree with others that you might go to the Berner Oberland rather than Bern, as it's incredibly beautiful. One other point to mention about Switzerland is that it's expensive so be sure to budget accordingly.

Good luck with your planning!

How much time would you like in each place? you may have to drop some places off and maybe leave spare days for flexability and to rest.

Skip Greece and save for another time, to far out of the way for what you want to acheive. Focus mostly on the West as you have already booked your flights for Paris.

Too bad you are letting Eurail manage your trip, rather than you. Air travel makes sense for longer legs on your itinerary. Much as I like trains, for anything taking more than five hours I start to investigate flying. The best tool for checking one-way budget fares in Europe is www.skyscanner.com

It will show you that, for instance, you can fly from Naples to Athens for something under $100, rather than returning to Rome. Time can be as valuable as money. That's also true of your flights to and from home. A round trip ticket through Paris won't be much cheaper than flying into Paris and home from another city, not when you calculate the cost of getting back to Paris and the substantial time lost for backtracking. A multi-destination search function is essential for finding these efficient fares.

And I join the other posters in suggesting that less is more. You intend to move around so much that you will need a vacation to rest up when you get home. Slow down and take time to get under the surface of the most interesting places.

If you really want to go to Greece you need more time there, especially if you also plan on visiting islands and Olympia which take time to get to. Sparta is not much these days except as a handy base for seeing Mystras, which is worth it.

David's suggestion was good.

My overall view of your trip is that you are going to visit about 20 cites in 60 days. Some cities like London, Paris and Rome should be more than a three day visit.

I have lived in Germany (four years) and traveled to most of the countries in Europe. I have been to all the places you listed as well as more. I have done this many years with many trips. Think about how may times you plan on visiting Europe. I assume that you are young and want to see the sights before you are encumbered by career, family and children. That is not a bad thing.

There is nothing wrong with covering so many places on your trip. However, you won't get to call all the key sights, but you may get to see the main ones. For example, with three nights in Rome, you will have two full days, since travel will eat up coming and going. You will be able to see St. Peter's, Sistine Chapel and Vatican Museum, and the Roman Forum/Colliseum, with perhaps a couple of the key places like the Spanish Steps, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain, etc. There is a lot more to Rome that you won's see. I have been to Rome twice, spending a week there each time and still want to go back and see more.

I know you left off Scandanavia, Spain and Portugal, so you will still want to go back to Europe. Just consider a bit more intensive trip with less travel.
We just spend 4 weeks in England and Wales and didn't even go to London. Your itinerary in Britain only includes London and Edinburgh. There is way more to see in Britain.
Here is a review that I posted on cruise critic of our four weeks in Britain then a two week cruise back to the USA.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=599139

Hi,

You have two distinct advantages on this trip, the 2 months time factor and the Youth Pass. I would pick no more than six countries, focusing on four as the itinerary. Include all options on getting from A to B, buses, day trains, night trains (to stretch out more time), ferries. Drop Greece or Switzerland, logistically Greece is a better choice for next time. Stay exclusively in hostels, you'll see that everyone else in your age bracket does likewise. Hostels have overwhelmingly young guests with a sprinkling of older folks, like me, at times.

"...finding it hard to come up with an itinerary." That's the easy part, ie, coming up with places you want to see. No problem in deciding where to go, based on your priorities and how desperate you are to see the place. Getting there relative to other cities/towns on the itinerary is more difficult as you need to figure out the logistics, time factor, etc. If you're going in the summer, as I do from May to July normally, expect the weather to be hot, maybe with oppressive heat thrown in. Relative to train schedules and routes, traveling in the summer does have its advantages.

The Eurail map that actually comes with your pass is much more detailed than what you used but still does not reflect all stops. The online version is here. I believe that I previously recommended Rick's guidebooks to you to help determine smaller towns of interest. Many of those are summarized online here under Explore Europe. No one book will cover the whole plan, however.

Most tourists with limited time don't focus on either Bern or Zurich. As noted previously, Lauterbrunnen, Muerren, or Gimmelwald get you much closer to the Alps. The two larger of those are on the map linked above (see Switzerland blow-up section) and Gimmelwald is between them.

Hi,

Use the accompanying Eurail map with the Pass. It serves as a good overview. I get that too when my Pass arrives (within a week of putting in the order on-line). That Eurail map shows also the ferry routes...very handy. Still, there are map /tourist companies that sell detailed folded train maps, which is what I use along with DB in planning my train routes, both night and day. That sort of train map includes small towns.

cody,

A few additional points to add to my previous post......

• the best resource for planning rail trips throughout Europe is the Bahn.de (German rail) website - https://www.bahn.com/en/view/index.shtml . They only sell tickets for trips originating in Germany but you can buy tickets for other countries from the websites of their respective rail operators (ie: SNCF in France).
• for trips in Italy, you can also use either http://www.trenitalia.com/ or https://www.italotreno.it/en . These cover the two major rail networks in Italy, but not some of the smaller private rail networks.
• you may also find it very helpful to have a look at https://www.seat61.com/ as this website has just about anything you'd need to know about travelling by train in Europe. This part of the Seat 61 website is worth reading - https://www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm#railpass-or-point-to-point-tickets .
• For buying online tickets, one of the best websites I've found is https://www.trainline.eu/ . They sell rail tickets for a number of countries, including France, Italy, Germany, Spain and others, at the same prices as the rail networks in the various countries. You'd need to register on the site and provide payment information, but after that the process is very easy and it provides "one stop shopping".
  

Thanks for the advice everyone, my Eurail pass just came in and the map with it shows a lot more stops than I was thinking they had. It’s back to the planning phase for me!

OpenRailwayMap shows you the real density of the European train network.

You do understand that Eurail is not a train company, correct?

Eurail pass just came in and the map with it shows a lot more stops than I was thinking they had

codyw, I re-iterate what Emily says. Eurail does not have any stops because it does not run any trains. It is a marketing organisation which sells passes which are valid on the trains of various railway companies, mostly national ones.

You need to look at what stops each rail company has. As a rule of thumb, assume most towns over 20,000 population will have a station, all over 50,000 and some smaller towns over 5-10,000 will also have a station and a train service.
The only way to see all stations is to zoom down to a local level. For example, this is a rail map of Bavaria (Bayern) which is a German state. It shows most stations, but even then it can't show all of them in urban networks (Orange lines, for example around the capital Munich (München): https://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/pv/deutschland_erleben/allgemein/tickets/pdfs_laender-tickets/2015/mdb_190311_streckenkarte_bay_2015.pdf
Think this is just one state of Germany, which is just one country in Europe.

Do not restrict yourself to the rail lines shown on an inadequate map. Decide where you want to go first, then work out how to get there.

"It’s back to the planning phase for me!"

You've gotten good advice on limiting your travel. My first railpass Euro-adventure was about 2 months, but a trip all around Europe was a lot smaller back then. Most of Eastern Europe and much of Germany was inaccessible. Even then, a 2-month Eurailpass could not show you all of Europe. The contiguous USA is about 3 million square miles; Europe is 4 million, and unlike the USA, its land mass is nearly OVERWHELMED with diverse and interesting places. You really should think of Europe as its own planet.

Have you reviewed Rick's planning tips? You should. Rick offers some excellent advice to first timers at this page, including:

"See countries in order of cultural hairiness." (see the UK first, a place like Naples last, in other words.)

"Alternate intense big cities with villages and countryside." (You have nothing but big cities right now.)

"Leave some slack in your itinerary."

"Assume you will return."

"...hit as many festivals, national holidays, and arts seasons as you can..."

Some personal tips on cutting back :

• You are locked into Paris at the start, and flying Dublin - Paris at the end. Also, you will need to fly to Dublin from somewhere as well. But you've also already bought ground travel for every single day of your trip. More flying = more expense, less time seeing Europe. Try to stick with the trains on this trip. Why not omit Athens this time?... that will save you two additional flights - and a future visit to Greece, when Greek ferries are at full steam, could include some Greek islands as well.

• Perhaps London, Edinburgh, and the rest of the UK really should be omitted this time. They are not part of Eurail and will also mean additional expense.

And some tips for seeing smaller places:

"I was originally wanting to stop by Freiburg instead of Lyon..." Should be no problem, it's on a major train line. But Freiburg isn't in the Black Forest; be sure to see some nearby Black Forest towns nearby (or stay there - you already have plenty of cities.)

• Gutach:
  http://www.bensbauernhof.com/gutachimschwarzwald.html
  https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1825958-d190955-Reviews-Black_Forest_Open_Air_Museum_Vogtsbauernhof-Gutach_im_Schwarzwald_Baden_Wurttembe.html

• Black Forest Railway, one of Germany's most scenic:
  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Gutachbr%C3%BCcke_mit_VT_611.JPG
  https://www.black-forest-travel.com/places-of-interest/black-forest-railway.html

• Speaking of scenic railways in Germany, don't miss the Middle Rhine Valley route, especially the part between Koblenz and Bingen, dotted with dozens of medieval castles and attractive old-world towns.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Karte_Mittelrhein.png/1200px-Karte_Mittelrhein.png
https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/articles/three-rhineland-castles
Braubach
Bacharach

The Eurail site mentions both the Black Forest and the Rhine routes: https://www.eurail.com/en/europe-by-train/scenic-trains

Hi Cody! I also took a 2-month Eurail Pass trip; it was one of the most wonderful trips of my life! I had NO ITINERARY (cough it was the '70s, cough) and I was a free spirit.

Please consider this: As you are travelling throughout Europe, you will meet interesting people who will influence you to abandon your plan, and go with them to do something else! If you have written your itinerary in stone, maybe you can't be flexible.

We also occasionally used the train system as our Hotel to save money, thus "Travellin' Train Roulette" (getting off the train wherever it landed when we woke up). I am not suggesting that you do this: but I would like to tell you that it's OK to change a plan, or two. HAVE FUN! Hey - WHEN is your trip scheduled?

Thanks for explaining some more details everyone!

@Shelley, that sounds like a lot of fun, and I’m going from April 14th-June 16th