itinerary help - Amsterdam to Venice

Off the top of my head, I would say that the odd duck in that list is Prague. Not that it couldn't be done - but presents minor transportation issues and is logistically slightly off your otherwise fairly direct itinerary. Subtracting it would also free up 3-4 days to make the rest of your trip a bit more relaxed. As for transport; you could do much of it by train, though it's not always the most efficient option. I would train from Amsterdam to near St. Goar in Germany and then use a car until Munich. Then I would train until Ljubliana and then rent a car for Slovenia and Istria. Train or bus into Venice. If you really have 22-24 days instead of 20, that makes a difference, too. Could be a great, though busy trip.

Doable? Yes, the iron curtain is gone. You can go to all of those places. Practical? I'd say not. You are proposing a trip to 13 places (including the countryside) in 21 (maybe 20 if you have to leave early on the 21st day) days, and with a lot of travel. You'll spend a whole day in some places; in some, arrive in the evening, spend the night, next morning, head for the next place.
There is only about one place that I don't already know you can get to by train, but I suspect it's accessible too.

I thought about eliminating Austria and Croatia to do another time -- does that make the itinerary less stressed?

Hello Rachel A couple of questions to help us help you, please? Which parts of Europe have you visited previously? What was it about where you went that you liked? Disliked? Why? What time of the year will you be going? How many is "we"? What is it about the places you listed that particularly attracted you? I would hate to suggest to cut something that you or a travel buddy had their heart set on. Before I give my opinions on the places you chose I would like to know why they are on the list. Do I assume correctly that you are flying into Amsterdam and flying out of an airport near Venice? Have you driven in Europe before? Have you looked into drop charges for saying farewell to your trusty motor in a different country from where you rented it? Have you looked into the insurance requirements for driving that trusty steed in different countries? ... over to you ...

Nigel thanks for responding I always respect your input when I'm reading the Helpline...... "We" is my hubby and I (72 and 62 yrs respectively). Our previous trip was Amsterdam (want to go back), Brugge, Alsace, Lucern, Chur (Bernina Express), Veranna Lake Como, Florence, Sienna (rented car and drove Tuscany one day and to Asissi one day), Rome, Cinque Terre. Did this in 4 weeks using every day of our 21-day rail pass so that was a bargain. We love natural scenery. I've wanted to do a river cruise to see Germany and castles but is a bit pricey unless that's all we wanted. We love B&B's and doing things on our own schedule, resting as needed, rushing as needed. We're not big on tours and won't wait in line. Many duomos and museums we only saw from the outside but saw plenty inside too. We actually have 3-4 weeks the month of Sept., but figure a couple days on each end for to and from puts the actual time in Europe closer to 3wks. Looking forward to your response

I don't see Prague as a problem. The Bahn run intercity bus takes 3½ hours from Nuernberg to Prague. Another like bus runs from Prague to Munich in 5 hours. Rent a car from St. Goar to Munich? German Rail has the second most dense rail network in Western Europe, 99% as dense as Switzerland (1st), 75% more than Italy, 123% more than France. And German Rail has some of the best fares in Europe. Germany is one of the last places you need to rent a car.

You all must be in excellent shape to do such a trip. I was exhausted touring every day year, and am not even 50 yet! my daughter was exhausted also and she's a recent college graduate!

Prague is really the outlier of the group. If you're hitting all these other places, I think you should take off Prague. From Trieste or Rijeka, head down to Pula or Rovinj, nice areas. You can take a ferry from this area to Venice, which might be a nice change from the train/car. If you're in Trieste and driving/train around to Venice, you could stop a night in the Jesolo/Bibione area which is nice beach towns with boardwalks and resorts.

"I would train from Amsterdam to near St. Goar in Germany and then use a car until Munich." Why? Agree with Lee... If you want to stop along the way to Munich, travel this part on a Sat or Sun on a "Happy Weekend" Ticket (40€ for 2) or on weekdays on a "Quer Durchs Land" ticket (48€ for 2.) Both are daypasses good on the somewhat pokier regional trains (trains you must use on much of this route anyway, so why pay full price?) but allow you to stop in Mainz, Frankfurt and/or Würzburg (where you might change trains anyway) for a look around on your own schedule - all 3 stations have lockers for your bags. The Residenz Palace in Würzburg is most impressive. http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/prices/germany/happy_weekend_ticket.shtml River Cruise: a nice 3-hour ride starts in Bingen and ends in Braubach (Marksburg Castle.) Just catch the train from St. Goar or Bacharach (I hope you're staying in either one or the other - they're so close to each other that staying in both can't be justified, really.) Prague does indeed represent a detour. Much closer is the smaller but also very well preserved city of Bamberg, a gorgeous place which reminds me a little bit of Prague. Photos here: http://eurobuildings.info/wallpapers/germany.html

Do you have a week's vacation when you get home? You'll need it after that kind of trip. I've done most of the same stops, coming out of Amsterdam along the Rhine River by car. It'd be difficult to make this route without a very expensive unlimited Eurorail Pass. With $9 gasoline, City to City is best done by train. Local touring is best done by mass transit. Stay in a central location and you can do day trips by rental car. Fly into Munich, and take in the city's sights. Then, take a train over to Salzburg for a couple of days. Then rail to Innsbruck for the incredible mountains. You can easily go to Venice from Innsbruck. Stay 3 days in Venice. You can go by train and bus to Vienna; a great city. (Stay @ K&T Boardinghouse) Take train to Prague.
Take a budget air carrier to Amsterdam, one of my favorite cities. Do day trips out of there. Some of your smaller cities are really just too expensive to stop at on point to point train trickets. Believe me that you'll get your fill of culture, food, beer and memorable characters on the above itinerary.

Rachel It is so hard to figure out an itinerary that won't kill you! Trying to streamline your trip is so difficult. My suggestion would be to leave Amsterdam off your list as you have been there before and it is an outlier. I also agree there are too many stops. And too few 2 or 3 day stops for you to catch your breath and see these great locations you have chosen. Since you have traveled extensively before, you know that travel time factors are tricky to estimate. Get a blank calendar, wincalendar.com has monthly ones. Put your proposed itinerary on it, then factor in the travel times; 1/2 day between destinations. You know how long in addition to the actual train tme it really takes: pack, check out, get to train station, train time, get to new hotel, get oriented, etc. Good luck! Bobbie

Thanks to all of you who responded with great advice. I actually abandoned this whole itinerary......... Instead, we're flying into Milan, a B&B near Parma 2 nights, 2 nights still to figure out, 3 nights in Venice/Lido, 7 nights at an agriturisimo still to be determined in umbria/tuscany, 3 nights in Rome, then a quick flight to Basel for a river cruise (8 days) to Amsterdam, 3 nights there before flying home........... Whew!!! I'm so excited and grateful for any and all suggestions.
Rachel