Itinerary for one month in Europe...any advice?

Only one day each in Madrid and Barcelona?? You say you don't want to give up Madrid, but you are giving it way too little time. You really need to think about trimming this itinerary substantially. Just packing up, getting from one place to another, and unpacking again is going to take more time than you can possibly imagine. You'll be spending most of your time in train and bus stations or riding, and having almost nothing left to actually see anything when you arrive.

In your case I would start by eliminating Prague all together, as well as Switzerland. Try to concentrate on the cities you absolutely want to see, base yourselves there so there is less packing and unpacking, and do day trips from those locations. You won't see everything -- you never will. But you'll be way happier taking it slower and enjoying where you are instead of spending your time running from place to place.

Michelle: have you found this website yet?
http://bahn.hafas.de/bin/query.exe/en; It's one of the best trip planning rail websites, use it to find out whether two destinations are linked by rail and how long the trip takes (it won't give you fares except for trips within or near Germany). So, for example, you are having trouble figuring out how long it would take to get from Reutte to the Cinque Terre, this website will help.

The German rail website will also help you to start jotting down train station to station travel times; then you can add time to get from the station to your accommodations, then adding time for packing up and checking out the next morning, getting back to the train station, and that kind of thing. The "blitz" approach you want to do certainly has its place, in fact Rick is a proponent of it when it makes sense for what a person wants to do--although many experienced travelers don't care for this approach. That's fine, it's your trip and you're going for the first time and want to get an overview. But you would want to avoid a situation where you actually thought you would have a half or two thirds of a day in a place you really wanted to see but, because you didn't allow enough time for these other things, you actually end up with only one or two hours in the place, then another train station, another train.

Well, Michelle, I would first of all say that I am in complete agreement with the previous posters. You have too much train travel to too many different places. Another place I would eliminate, along with those suggested already, is Nice. It's not a top-tier destination, no where near as attractive or interesting as some other places that you have given less time to; e.g., Madrid and Barcelona. Also, while I haven't checked a map, I'm not sure your plan makes geographic sense. There seems to be a lot of north/south back and forth while you are moving east. If you give us some ideas of what you and your friends are interested in, maybe we can give more advice.
Rosalyn

Nancy, you're right about Prague I think. I think we might leave that for another time. I just needed someone else to really confirm that it was a bad idea. I didn't really want to let it go, but I think its for the best. As far as Gimmelwald, thats something I really want to do. With Madrid and Barcelona, maybe we can add a day to each after subtracting Prague.

Thanks Kent for the website. We will probably end up getting rid of a few things (prague) so that will help make the trip less intense.

I also forgot to add that we are doing a combination on hostels and hotels. I have done a lot of research on hostels and hotels and plan to make some reservations so that we don't have to spend time searching.

Rosalyn-Thanks for the Nice tip. I'll take that into consideration. And believe it or not, my fellow travelers are really up for anything. I'm doing all of the planning and updating them as I go, and this works for us.

I agree with the other posters, even if you take out Prague, the itinerary is far too ambitious. You will see most of Europe from the inside of a trains and train stations, and by week two, you'll be too tired to do much more than arive at your destination and sleep. You may want to consider cutting your number of destinations by almost half.

And a little bit of practical advise for Gimmelwald. If you arrive from Nice, you will probably have to spend a night in Interlaken. Getting to Gimmelwald late in the day can be difficult.

I believe you may be just running thru europe too quicky. A month may seem like alot but your itin is loased. keep your key cities but stay longer than you have listed and then fill in with your second choices. remember travel days even by fast train shorten alot of your destination city sightseeing. Slow down too absorb europes wonderful gifts to the traveler. I try to spend min 5 days in major cities in europe like Rome, Florence, Paris. hope this helps a little.

Michelle,
We go to Europe every year and I understand what you are doing in getting an idea of where you will want to concentrate your attention. Everyone who travels a lot has their favorite places, mine is Roma specifically and Italy in general, and you will find yours I am sure. But may I suggest two things. First, look at your schedule for making it more efficient. You have too much backtracking. Also, I don't necessarily agree with your number of days in different places but if that's you choice, fine. It would be helpful to experienced travelers if you indicated a little about yourself and your likes and dislikes. For instance, I would recommend more days in Florence to someone who loves art and history, especially the Renaissance. If I can help, feel free to write.

I'll toss in another "your itinerary is crazy even if you had two months."

Spain -> southern France (Carcassonne, Aix-en-Provence, etc) -> Paris -> Italy is probably reasonable. Spain -> Paris -> Italy, using night trains to get to and from Paris, is even more so.

I've always found that Rick is a bit contradictory in his travel philosophy versus his actual suggested itineraries. Two or three days in a large, vibrant city is barely enough time to see the main tourist sights, let alone explore and connect with locals. You could do three half-days in the Louvre alone, if you want to really see it.

Slow down, do plenty of research beforehand on the places you will visit (not just hotels and restaurants, but history, your personal areas of interest, etc), and you'll have a better experience.

Hre's my advice.

1) If Granada, Paris, Rome & Madrid are important, spend more time in those places at the expense of less important places.

2) Spend less time in trains and planes and more time seeing the sights. This means paring back some.

3) You can cover a lot of ground in a month--great time to travel, too!--but high-speed itineraries mean being super smart about minimizing travel times and super honest about your priorities. Sit everyone down with a big map of Europe and string those priorities together as efficiently as you can.

4) Long trips have their own rhythms--plan a break every 10 days or so to regroup. They also need contrast and balance, so don't squeeze out everything except the great cities.

Have a great trip!

Michelle: You've received good advice from the others and I hope it helps. I'd like to add to something Adam said about sitting everyone down with a big map of Europe. Now maybe this is obvious, but...whether you sit everyone down or are just looking at a map yourself, all maps have a scale but when you are looking at a map on your monitor or on a piece of paper, of course the distances between points appear much shorter than they really are and thus unless you actually make the effort to take the scale of the map into account, you don't have a good idea of travel times from just looking at a map. Imagine a European not familiar with actual travel times and distances in the US and only looking at a map of the US on their monitor and thinking, well it doesn't look THAT far from New York to Chicago. An important part of itinerary planning for Europe is understanding the true actual distances between points.

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I've thought a lot about it when I should be studying for finals and have decided that Nice and Prague are out for sure. I'm going to have to get together with my travel partners to decide what else we can kick out. If you guys have any advice on what else might not work, that would be appreciated. If you could just give me a good reason that would be good too, because its pretty hard to kick a city you have been thinking about for months out of your itinerary. (I should have posted WAY sooner!) Although I am somewhat interested in history and I've been reading a lot about it, I am more interested in experiencing the culture,talking to locals, etc..

Thanks!

Three to four week trips is the only way to go. If you're going to spend the money to get there, take time to experience it.

You are going at a perfect time of year. The weather will be good and the crowds and prices will still be reasonable.

Here are my general iteneraries for three to four week vacations. Some I've done and some are still on my wish list.

1. Benelux/Germany/Austria
2. France
3. Italy
4. British Isles-Britain/Cornwall/Wales/Ireland/Scotland
5. Iberian Peninsula-Spain/Portugal/Gibralter possibly a side trip to Algiers
6. Eastern Swing- Berlin/Prague/Poland/Hungary/Vienna/possibly further South toward Dubrovnik
7. Northern Swing-Denmark/Sweden/Norway/possibly Finland/Latvia

Even with these "limited" iteneraries, it's still packed and I have to set my priorities. As you can see, there are still pieces of Europe I'll have missed when I'm done with these.

Another reason to focus is to practice some language skills specific to the area.

We have all decided to get rid or Prague, Cinque Terre, and the South of France. We know theres still work to do. To me the route we are taking makes sense, but thats probably because I've never done any serious European traveling by train. Someone mentioned that this route was not so good. Any other suggested routes? Also, I'd really like to see Munich, me and one of my fellow travelers took a great German philosophy class and our professor couldn't say enough about Munich. I'm also very interested in seeing Dachau, but if we were to add days to cities, is Munich one that we should give a few extra days to?

Michelle: I'm glad we're helping (we ARE helping, aren't we? :)
Seriously, I'll give your new itinerary another review but now that you've changed it, could you list the days and destinations with the changed itinerary, like you did in your initial question? That would help visualize it and we can see if the modified route makes sense geographically, avoids backtracking, etc.

Sure Kent, I'll do just that.

I'm sure we still need some revisions but this is what I have at the moment.

May 10: Depart Chicago May 11: arrive Granada (morning arrival)May 12: Granada May 13:Granada May 14: Madrid May 15: Madrid May 16: Barcelona May 17: Barcelona May 18: Barcelona May 19: (Night train)Gimmelwald May 20: Gimmelwald May 21: Gimmelwald 21: Paris May 22: Paris May 23: Paris May 24: Amsterdam May 25: Amsterdam May 26:Amsterdam May 27:(Night train)Munich May 28: Munich(Dachau) May 29: Munich May 30: Reutte May 31:Reutte (Castle Day) June 1:Florence June 2:Florence June3: Florence (Maybe a day trip) June 4:Florence June 5:Rome June 6:Rome June 7: Rome

So now that I typed this all out I have two extra days. We want to leave on the 10th. We could add another to Madrid I suppose. I have alternative reasons for going there besides travel, but its a long story and not worth it and thats why I'm only there for a short time.

Also, instead of putting "morning train" before everything, I'll just tell you now that we would take morning trains to our next destination. I'm having a terrible time deciding if we should (and what we should) kick out. Once again, any input would be GREAT.

Thanks

I would dump A'Dam and Munich and put the CT area back on the list. By that time, you'll be ready to hike and dive! Have a great trip.

Michelle: Sounds like a Great Trip! If you have not already done this, if you have a map that shows Western Europe, or if you don't have one go to some website like viaMichelin.com and print one out in hardcopy. Then take a highlighter draw your proposed itinerary on that map. After you've done that, if the geographic flow and the efficiency of your itinerary makes geographic sense to you, go with it. And if you're already locked into airfare flying into Granada and out of Rome, that might be a deciding factor right there because obviously then you have to end up in Rome.

Hello Michelle. In your revised itinerary, I think the number of days at each place is good. I suggest delete Dachau and Amsterdam. Munich has good museums. Go to the Cinque Terre in Italy (Manorola has a good hostel). Rick Steves recommends plan for one day of no plans, every seven days. That is, have a day for resting, one day each week. An unscheduled day could be used for seeing something that you did not have time to see the previous day, and for doing laundry, buying groceries, etc. I think you will want to stay at the Cinque terre for two days, or more, to enjoy being on a cliff above the Mediteranean Sea.

Michelle,

OK, everyone is right. You won't get many opportunities like this in your life so take advantage of it. Taking advantage means spending time in each location, seeing the sights and enjoying local traditions and customs. Taking advantage does not mean showing up with just enough time to snap a few pictures.

I'm not trying to add to your itinerary but how can you have no interest in the UK? Besides Paris, I think London is quite possibly the greatest city in the world. I have visited most cities that you list and I can't see the reason to ignore London.

Moving on though, what has you so fascinated about Granada? Are you visiting family or something? That seems like a fairly easy drop compared to some other cities. Another tip, don't listen to the people telling you to drop Amsterdam.

To finish this, and please keep in mind that I have spent time in most of these places. I will list my favorites: London, Paris, Venice, Rome, Amsterdam, Madrid, Barcelona and Munich.

Michelle, your revised itinerary does not include Salzburg (in Austria). I suggest, instead of going to Dacau, go on a day trip from Munich to Salzburg. The train trip is two hours each direction. Salzburg is worth it. You could be in Salzburg for enough time to see the best places there.

Michele, as I said before, I suggest do not go to Amsterdam. In this trip to Europe you will travel in southern Europe. (you said Spain is a high priority for you). In a later trip to Europe you could go to the northern half of Europe, including Amsterdam. When you leave Barcelona, you could go to Paris. From Paris to Gimmelwald. From Gimmelwald to Munich.
And, I see in your revised itinerary, Paris is the only destination in France. Because you will be in southern Europe, I think you could visit some place in southwest France, before you go to Paris. If you will be away for one month, you will not need to do night trains. People do not sleep well in night trains.

Michelle, your latest itinerary is a big improvement. What do your traveling companions think?

Gimmelwald is fabulous, and at Day 10 of your itinerary may be just the break you need. But I'd add a day there given how much trouble you are taking to get there sandwiched between an 18-hour trip from Barcelona and an 8-hour trip to Paris.

Otherwise, skip it.

It pays to be ruthless about your itinerary. Changing venues eats up nearly a whole day that you could be spending in castles or mountains or cafes.

So, make sure (1) you really want to spend a day getting to each destination and (2) you spend enough time in each place to justify the trip.

I'd add a day to Paris too (especially if your time there includes a trip to Versailles), but that's just because it's so great.

Finally, I think the "trip of a lifetime" meme will make you crazy. Try "I will return" instead.

Michelle,

In my opinion you want to do too many cities in one month.You won't be able to understand much, neither to see, of each od these places you want to go to.
I would stay at least 1 day and 1/2 or 2 in each city, unless you get to a particular city early in the morning. But you will need some time to figure things in a new city, so you are going to "waste" time doing that.
All depends on what you want to do in each city. visiting museums takes time. I went to Paris for 5 days, the 2nd time, and I only went to Louvre fro 3 hours, and I didn't really ahve time to go to Versaille. It's actually out of Paris.
You also need to rest.Travelling my train is not as bad as by air, speaking of tiredness.