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Itinerary for Feedback

A little bit about this itinerary:

This is a 61 night itinerary that will take place in June & July because my girlfriend and I are both off work during those months. I am not sure what year this trip will take place. It will not be in 2016 and I doubt it will be in 2017. 2018 seems like a realistic possibility.

This trip is centered on Germany because my girlfriend is of German decent and I am very interested in Germany as well. The rest of the trip is basically planned off of that.

I am also fairly set on using a car for this trip for a variety of reasons. For one, I like to drive and have the freedom to go where I want to go. I also want to visit several areas that are easier by car. We are both more interested in nature and the countryside than cities and museums in general. Another factor is that I am a serious disc golfer (Frisbee golf) and plan on playing quite a few disc golf courses on the trip. A car will make it easier to get to some these more remote locations and will make it easier to transport my equipment during the trip. Through my research, it seems like leasing a car is a better option for a trip of this length than renting. It also seems that France is the best country for leasing a car. This is convenient anyway because I believe that Paris is the best location for us to fly from our location.

The combination of desire to see Germany on this first European experience, and the desire to use a car as well, means that I will omit some destinations (primarily Italy) because they are more geared towards train travel with less baggage. (I would like to make a second European trip in the future with no car to visit Italy, the Swiss Alps, and the Dalmatian Coast of Croatia.)

I have been doing quite a bit of research on European travel (including frequenting this website and forum) for the past couple of years so I feel like I have a pretty good handle on a lot of things. I also know from my previous travel, though, that it is impossible to know some things until you have experienced them first hand. That is why I am posting this here—to get any feedback on this basic itinerary:

Posted by
11 posts

Fly into Paris & lease car there

Drive straight to Belgium

Belgium: 4 nights/3 days (either Brussels or Bruges)
1 day in location
1 day trip to the other location + Ghent
1 free day

Drive to Amsterdam via Antwerp, Kinderdijk, Rotterdam, Delft, & The Hague

Amsterdam: 7 nights/6 days
3 days in Amsterdam
1 day trip to Aalsmeer, Haarlem, & Zaanse Schans
1 day trip to Alkmaar & Afsluitdijk
1 free day

Drive to Rhine Valley via Arnhem & Cologne

Rhine Valley: 7 nights/6 days
1 day in Rhine Valley
1 day trip to Mosel Valley + Trier + Luxembourg City
1 day trip to Frankfurt
1 day trip to Heidelberg
1 day trip to Kellerwald-Edersee National Park
1 free day

Drive to Rothenburg via Wurzburg & the Romantic Road

Rothenburg: 2 nights/1 day

Drive to Munich via the Romantic Road to Augsburg

Munich: 7 nights/6 days
2 days in Munich
1 day trip to Dachau
1 day trip to Fussen & castles
2 free days

Drive to Ljubliana via scenic driving route through Julian Alps

Ljubliana: 2 nights/1 day

Drive to Istrian Peninsula via Postojna Cave, Predjama Castle, Skocjan Caves, & Trieste

Istrian Peninsula: 4 nights/3 days (either Rovinj or Pula)
1 day trip to Plitvice Lakes National Park
1 half day trip to the other location + half free day
1 half day trip to Kamenjak National Park + half free day

Drive to Salzburg via Bled

Salzburg: 7 nights/6 days
2 days in Salzburg
1 day trip to Grossglockner Alpine Road & Zell am See
1 day trip to Berchtesgaden
2 free days

Drive to Prague via Cesky Krumlov

Prague: 3 nights/2 days

Drive to Berlin via Dresden

Berlin: 4 nights/3 days

Drive to Nuremberg via Leipzig, Bayreuth, & Bamberg

Nuremberg: 2 nights/1 day

Drive to Freiburg via Stuttgart

Freiburg: 3 nights/2 days
1 day trip to Baden-Baden & the Black Forest
1 day trip to the Black Forest

Drive to Lyon via Bern, Lausanne, & Geneva

Lyon: 2 nights/1 day

Drive to Paris via scenic driving route through Burgundy

Paris: 7 nights/6 days
3 days in Paris
1 day trip to Versailles & Chartres
1 day trip to Loire Valley
1 day trip to Normandy

Return car & fly out of Paris

Posted by
11 posts

PROJECTED COSTS (for 2 people)

Accommodations - $4,000
Airfare & Related - $3,500
Vehicle & Fuel - $3,000
Attractions - $2,500
Food - $2,500
Purchases & Other - $500

TOTAL - $16,000

Posted by
14920 posts

Good that your focus this first time is on a Germany trip. Since the primary means of transportation is the rental car, keep in mind that you'll be paying for gas by the liter, and that adds up fast unless your car is a stick, which might cost you less than renting an automatic, especially renting the car in Paris. don't know if it has changed or not.

Posted by
11 posts

I project 8,000 km total. The vehicle specs for likely leased vehicle states 3.7 L/100 km. This equates to 297 liters. Current cost of diesel per liter is about $1.25 I believe, which equates to around $370. Quote for the car lease for this time period is right at $2,500. I project the vehicle budget at $3,000. That doesn't account for parking and any passes needed for driving in certain countries or tolls but I did include $500 in my projected budget for "purchases & other".

Let me know if these estimated vehicle projections don't sound right please.

Posted by
7175 posts

I think it makes sense to hire/lease a car, but only for the Germany portion ...
Train: Belgium >> Amsterdam >> Koln
Car: Koln >> Rhine Valley >> Romantic Road >> Freiburg >> Munich >> Nuremburg >> Dresden >> Berlin
Train: Berlin >> Prague >> Vienna >> Slovenia >> Salzburg >> Switzerland >> Lyon >> Paris

Posted by
15777 posts

I would just point out that budgeting now for a trip that's at least 3 years in the future is tricky. The exchange rate has been low in favor of the dollar this year, in fact the lowest it's been in the past 10 years. In another year or two, an increase of 20% would not bring it back to highs of 5 years ago. Also, prices in Europe have been increasing in recent years. I've seen leaps of 50% or more in room costs for places I've stayed, with absolutely no increase in quality.

Posted by
11507 posts

I agree with Chani.. I travel yearly almost and prices change.. and never for the better..

Posted by
6713 posts

This looks like a great trip. As someone else advised, you might consider using trains at the beginning and end, renting the car in Germany, and returning it (back) in Germany to avoid the drop-off costs of returning in another country. Also look for a diesel with a manual shift if you can, for best fuel economy.

FWIW, I wouldn't think Salzburg is worth all the time you give it. Consider shifting those two "free" days to another destination (hint -- Paris!).

And of course it's true -- budgeting now for 2018 has a lot of uncertainties. Build in a cushion for inflation and for the likely rebound of the euro to closer to its historic ratio to the dollar. If you're wrong about these, happy surprise! :-)

Posted by
7021 posts

"1 day in Rhine Valley
1 day trip to Mosel Valley + Trier + Luxembourg City"

I don't have the energy or knowledge to address all your destinations. But I know the Rhine and Mosel pretty well.

1.) 1 day isn't enough for the Rhine Valley. I'd plan on two. Marksburg and Rheinfels castles should be on your list. You'd probably enjoy a short cruise through the scenic part (Bingen - St. Goar.) Bacharach, Boppard, St. Goar, Oberwesel, and possibly Rüdesheim (which with Assmannshausen has a 2-chairlift outing with a hike in between and great views) are towns you should look into as well.

2.) The rest of your week in this area should not be spent on VERY long day trips to Frankfurt and Heidelberg and Luxembourg just because those are names you recognize. In one day, it's impossible to do more than Trier if you're staying in one of the Rhine valley towns. On another day you might visit a different part of the Mosel - catch a train to Cochem and Burg Eltz castle. On another day, visit Mainz, a university town like Heidelberg with lots to see and do and a huge pedestrians-only zone.
Cochem
Burg Eltz
Mainz old town
Mainz, things to do
Mainz's massive Romanesque cathedral
Mainz market square

And then there are half a dozen other interesting outings you could take... the Lahn River valley route to Limburg, the outstanding open-air museum in Bad Sobernheim, and Remagen's excellent WW II Museum All of these would involve shorter distances.

Speaking of castles... Heidelberg and Füssen do NOT have any, despite our English-language use of the word "castle" for the palaces there. Heidelberg had a castle once upon a time of which some ruins remain, but the main structure there is a late-era palace. In Füssen the "castles" were built centuries after Europeans had stopped building castles. Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau have been residential palaces all along (the former was lived in for just 6 months by Bavarian king Ludwig II.) The Rhine, where you can see what originally were 40 genuine castles and castle ruins in 40 miles of river, is your best castle-snooping territory. These are what the Germans refer to as "Burgen", real knights' castles. If you're going into the Alps from Munich, I'd much prefer a visit to Garmisch and Mittenwald over Füssen. In Munich you can visit King Ludwig's birth place, NYMPHENBURG PALACE, where you'll see and learn a lot more than you will on the rushed and crowded 30-minute tour of Neuschwanstein.

If you want to visit Frankfurt, it makes a great stopover on the way to Würzburg. You have to go through Frankfurt anyway. Put bags in a locker and see the town.

Posted by
2579 posts

Check out some of the trip reports at www.bensbauernhof.com for great info on Germany. France does look like the best place for leasing cars, but I believe that they also allow pickup in Germany.

If you just wing it without reservations, at least get a few suggested places in the towns you think you will visit. I enjoy reading journals of cyclists at www.crazyguyonabike.com. In several of them, people end up spending twice as much as I do on my trips by not knowing where to stay. In most German towns, Tourist Information Offices have lists of places to stay - a wider selection than the big booking sites.

Posted by
768 posts

My wife and I embarked on a 35 day visit last year that, like your proposed itinerary, had a lot of moving parts. Ours included cruise ships, ferries, water taxis, planes, trains, trams and a rental car. We're in our 60's and at the end of the journey we asked ourselves "would we do this again?" The answer was "no". Simply too much of a good thing. I presume you're both young with energy to burn, but 2 months of driving—yikes. Won’t you have two months the following year that you could use one of them for another one-month visit?

I think I counted packing and unpacking luggage 17 times, including packing and unpacking at home. Unless you’ll be doing a good deal of laundry along the way, you’ll need a larger size vehicle just for luggage.

The food allowance of $20.50/day for each of the two of you is very inadequate, made more inadequate with price increases between now and when you’ll travel. The comments others have about price increases bear serious attention.