Itinerary Advice (Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Amsterdam, London)

My comment is that the "idea of night trains" often turns into a disastrous reality that leaves you virtually sleepless and thus both non-productive and with an out-of-synch sleep schedule for at least the next day. A few people do fine with them. Odds are overwhelming that not all of your travel group (even if there are just 3 of you) will fall in that category.

In addition, your earlier trip averaged about 4 nights per base city; this one averages 2.5. I would hate it, but I'm a 4+ days everywhere sort of person and clearly operate on fewer cylinders than you do. Your pace would have me constantly looking at my watch and feeling I had to leave wherever I was and rush to the next sight on my list. Or the airport.

The many flights are another level of concern for me. I find it stressful, thinking about getting to an airport on time, so I feel I need to build in a time buffer every step of the way. I don't care whether my hotel is just a 20-minute bus ride from the airport. I'll be leaving about an hour early, just in case two buses don't show up. So I figure every flight costs me at least 5-1/2 hours. It may not be more time than I sometimes spend on a train, but I'm not worried about getting to the train station on time, and simply being on a plane makes me tired; I think it's the dry air. Five flight days within 17 days is a lot.

As for specifics...

I think it's a shame to go to Spain for just 6 nights (5 days, given the condition some of you will be in on your arrival day). Madrid's not my favorite city, but there are wonderful day-trip possibilities. And Barcelona is beyond challenging in 2-1/2 days if you want to see a lot of the traditional sights. There are six places that basically require pre-purchased, timed tickets to avoid standing in line for an hour or more and possibly running into a sell-out. And there are so many additional interesting places in Spain beyond those two cities. Southern Spain has lovely weather in the spring.

Zurich is not the place to stay in Switzerland. It is nice, clean and dull. With just one day in the country (beyond time on the Bernina Express), I don't think it makes sense to try to stay up in the mountains (and April weather is beyond iffy), but I believe Lucerne would be workable.

Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. I know you want to see all those places, and you're trying to satisfy a committee. Itinerary development by committee often produces something that looks like this. I fear you're going to end up with a trip that, on paper, meets everyone's requests but ultimately isn't close to as great a trip as it could be. Every one of those destinations has great places nearby, within a short train or bus ride. Lots of stuff to enjoy without having to get on a plane.

You may do better to do train from Amsterdam to London

How much time did you give yourself from you flight arrival in London, to the departing flight to Madrid?

As far as a schedule modification, it would be to drop Zurich and add that time to Spain

Drop Zurich for sure just fly out of there; You are not going anywhere in your planned tripped where night train service exists o r needed.To echo the above it is tricky to fly into London and then on separate ticket fly to Madrid; take the train instead like the above poster suggests and go to Amsterdam first. Then from Amsterdam fly to Madrid and so on.
But this looks like a fun Spring Break starter trip for a younger person so go for it; most us here are a lot older than you and cover ground at a slower pace and you will do the same later maybe.

And you don't really need advice on what to see. I traveled with my 21 year old niece to Spain 3 months ago and she just Googled on here iphone or asked Alexa what to see and it matched what you are probably going to hear here on the forum.
Same thing with restaurants where to eat as my niece pick some great places not in a guide book.

Slow down, eliminate some locations.
Why Zurich, consider Interlakken. If you have been to London, drop it and depart from Amsterdam.

I won't comment on the pace, you said you are happy with it, to each their own.

The Bernina Express runs from Tirano to Chur, over the Alps. The rail route from Milan to Tirano runs along the east side of Lake Como. Therefore it makes sense to stay on Lake Como somewhere along that line, Varenna is the usual choice.

Do not stay in Zürich. It is a city, you go to Switzerland for mountains, not cities. My suggestions are Luzern or the Jungfrau region. You can get trains from Chur to either.
For info on the Jungfrau region (Lauterbrunnen, Mürren, Wengen and Grindelwald), see here: https://jungfrauregion.swiss/en/summer/

Then fly to Amsterdam, you can do this from Zürich or Basel airports. You can go from wherever you are staying in Switzerland direct to Zürich airport (station: Zürich Flughafen).

Amsterdam to London I would also take the train. City centre to City centre about the same time, but more comfortable. Times and tickets from the railway company here: https://www.eurostar.com

You say "this spring", we are already in Spring (March+April+May). You need to book hotels and transport soon, the cheapest tickets will be selling out.

P.S. Night trains are an endangered species. No night trains on any of the routes you will be travelling.

I would not recommend the Eurostar from Amsterdam to London because that journey is not direct. You have to get off in Brussels to go through passport control and security. Only the London to Amsterdam route is direct.

Instead, consider flying Schiphol to London City airport, which is located in east London with good connections via Docklands Light Rail to central London.

We were originally going to do Amsterdam first, but that would put us there around Kings Day. We wanted to avoid the extra expense and hassle. The reason for taking a flight from Amsterdam to London is that it's $18 a person compared to $86 and is fairly quick. I definitely prefer trains. We have three hours between our fight from London to Madrid and it's out of the same airport, so I'm hoping there won't be any issues there. My biggest concern with this trip is that we have to rely too much on flights. I appreciate the advice about Switzerland. We really want to do the Bernina Express, but I'm going to talk to our group about scratching Switzerland or staying in a more scenic area. I was already looking at St. Mortiz, because it is on the line, but I will also look into the other areas you've recommended. I really appreciate all the advice, it definitely helps to have a third party opinion when dealing with a group who are all very passionate about where we go!

Acraven, I'm also curious about your feelings on Madrid and whether anyone else finds it under-whelming. I've never been to Spain and typically start with the major cities and sites when I go somewhere new, but I was also very interested in going to Seville, which we scratched for time. Would others recommend somewhere in Spain other than Madrid?

We are finding decent prices on flights. I use seat61 for advice on where to buy train tickets, but I agree we are booking late. We are going late April into early May, maybe that doesn't count as spring? We have some time to plan, but not as much as I would like.

jazz+travels, you made me laugh. Well said!

Update: Reading back your OP I realise that you already have the London - Madrid flight booked so you're locked in.

Next time you should ask for advice before booking anything, not when it's too late. If you have a bit of time think about the advice your're given by us and perhaps your next trip will be better planned.

The only thing locked in is London, and like I said this made the most sense since it was a direct flight (v. say flying to Madrid and having a 3 hour layover at JFK and a 7 hour layover in Paris), because it gave us more flexibility to plan our next move. I have not booked for Madrid yet, just found a flight that works.

I think we are in agreement to scratch Amsterdam and just focus on Spain, Northern Italy, and the Alps (and a day or two in London on our return). We may try to go through Nice if we can find the right travel plan. I think now the biggest thing is rethinking Madrid and maybe just flying into Barcelona or another city. Once again, thanks for all the help.

I guess I should clarify "the Alps" to mean a more scenic area of Switzerland. I still need to research everyone's suggestions. I don't know as much about Switzerland as the other destinations. I've just always wanted to do the Glazier Express or Bernina Express.... Basically we are taking your advice and starting over with our whole plan! But we know we definitely want to include Spain (Barcelona) and that Amsterdam is adding a lot of travel time for only one city.

Regarding Madrid, it really depends on what you are interested in, I personally don't find it so unappealing as others on this forum, I really like the Prado museum and the Royal Palace, as well as the various nice day trips one can do. Now that you have eliminated Amsterdam, I believe that you have eight nights to play around with, you could do something like this:

Fly in to Madrid
Madrid (2 nights)
AVE Train to Toledo
Toledo (2 nights)
AVE Train to Barcelona via Madrid Atocha
Barcelona (4 nights) - Day trip to Montserrat monastery
Fly out of Barcelona

For me, it's just that Madrid sort of pales in comparison to the more atmospheric cities in Spain, basically as Scythian said (though I do not recommend Avila to anyone with limited time). I love the art museums, but most travelers aren't all that interested. There's no medieval area; there's little if any Mudejar architecture; there's little if any modernista architecture. In that part of Spain I much prefer Toledo. But in terms of nightlife, Madrid has it in spades and Toledo (at least the large historic area) seemed extremely quiet to me. Another plus for Madrid, as compared to Barcelona, is that it is not as thronged with tourists.

There's nothing in the world wrong with going to Madrid, but for me it's not one of Spain's most interesting destinations except for art lovers and those looking for nightlife. It does have the virtue of being less than a 3-hour train ride from Barcelona on the AVE, but those ticket prices can go quite high as others buy up all the bargain-priced tickets. You will not want to spend the time it takes to do that trip on a regular train.

I haven't been to the area of Switzerland around St. Moritz, but I believe I've read comments that it's not actually the best place to stay, being not all that attractive (by Swiss standards). Maybe check out Pontresina? The usual recommendation on this forum for the Berner Oberland is Lauterbrunnen or one of the village above it, Muerren seeming the most popular. Note that Switzerland is a very expensive destination if you stay in hotels, eat in restaurants and have to pay full-price for Swiss trains. The locals have an annual half-price card that helps a lot. You can buy a shorter-term card, but I believe it costs something like US $120, so it may not pay off if you don't do much train travel within the country.

I assume you've found the information on the Seat61 website about the bargain way to ride the Bernina Express.

I spent a couple of weeks in Nice in 2016 for language lessons. I enjoyed the city, which has a small historic area, a really nice market, a lovely promenade along the Mediterranean and a large number of art museums. Still, I think it's fair to say that for most people its greatest virtue may be that it is a superb base for day-tripping without a rental car to neighboring coastal towns (by cheap regional train) or hill towns (by bus). If you're thinking of just a brief overnight stop in transit, you'll get no benefit from Nice's role as the transportation hub of the Riviera, and I'm not sure it's the place I'd choose to stay. In addition, aside from the Thello, the rail routes from Barcelona into Italy tend not to pass through Nice. On a short trip without the time to see Provence or more of the Riviera, I'd try to fly the Spain-Italy segment.

You've given us a lot to think about. I guess we still have a lot of planning to do (I didn't want to bore you with the details, so I never explained that I originally had an actual plan for a trip to Valencia for Las Fallas. Then my boss had to have emergency surgery, which pushed all our plans back, so that's the reason for the last minute rush). While we do love night life, it wouldn't be the only thing we went to a city for, so Madrid may not be the best choice for us, but I'll definitely look into some of the day trip options.

posting without reading the answers.

I would make sure all my nights are in Lake Como, not in Milan. It is more beautiful and a break of 3 nights will be most welcome.
Skip Zurich. The beauty of Switzerland does not lie in it's big cities but in the charming car villages overlooking breathtaking vistas (like Mürren or Wengen). It takes 4 hours from Varenna (lake Como) to Mürren (Switzerland).

I feel strongly that you would need at least 3 nights, maybe 4 in the Bernese Oberland (Switzerland's Heidesque playground). You have already been to London, so you could take a night from there. Do it or skip Switzerland and fly Milan to Amsterdam your next destination.