itinerary

kimberly, I'd need a bit of time to consider your Itinerary, but I do have a few preliminary comments. To begin with, I'm a bit puzzled on why you're arriving in Madrid only to spend a few hours wandering around (while jet lagged) and then leaving for Paris. I'm not sure spending a few hours there is worth the time, nor the expense and time of a night train to Paris. I'm assuming there's a reason you're not flying directly to Paris? Your sightseeing looks to be reasonably well structured without trying to fit too much in. Regarding your tour of the Rhine Valley and your plans to "Bike it", given the weather at that time of year I'm not sure how enjoyable an experience that will be. The same situation applies to the "Countryside walk" in Rothenburg and the "hike around" in Fussen. Especially this year, the weather in Europe has been a major factor affecting travels. I'll add further comments if I think of any. Cheers!

Kimberly
if you are young this makes sense, you will experience a lot. If you are older its a bit too rushed. As above, Madrid doesnt make sense. Rhine, Rothenburg and travel to each is going to take more than the two days you allow. Wont have time to see anything. I would add two days. You can take one away from Munich (and probably the second from either Paris- or at a push Munich or Madrid). Salzburg, also seeems a bit tight dont structure your days as tightly as you do. I usually aim at one or two major sights each day, with an idea of other sights/experiences i can try and fit in (in the neoghbourhood, or on my walk back) if the time allows. I prefer the luxury of being able to spend more time at my major sights if the mood takes me Rothenburg, the walk to and in the valley is enjoyable, plan for little rain flurries. Also the night watchman's Tour is fun- even though "everyone" does it, and you must see the church with the wooden carved altar

Thanks so much for the thoughts. I will check out the outdoor days. The Stuttgart stop is because I have a friend who is there so I am stopping by to see them and we are going to go from there to Rhine Valley. Everyone's thoughts are so helpful!

i am looking into changing my flight but if it doesn't work, what about taking a 2 hour flight to paris instead of an overnight car. it is a short flight and could sleep in a bed that way. thoughts?

Kimberly
If you end up "having" to go to Madrid- then you should at least spend one more day there so you can see something. Flying Madrid to Paris may make sense (add in time to get to airport check in time etc), and cut it from paris. Although Paris is a GREAT City, you have enough time to se the high spots. After reading your later posts , cut back on your expected/planned activities in each city, you will enjoy it more. You must allow yourself time to stroll and absorb the city (and sit in a cafe and have a coke or a coffee and maybe chat with the person at the next table)

kimberly, I'd normally recommend the Night Watchman's Tour in Rothenburg as a "must see", however the tours only operate from mid-March to Christmas. Since you'll be there in February, the Night Watchman's tour won't be an option. If my memory is correct from the the last time I took the tour, the Night Watchman often "winters" in Florida!

this is the rest of my trip...wouldn't let me post it. March 1 – Tuesday - Venice Cruise the Grand Canal - St Mark's Square (Doge's Palace, Correr Museum and Basillica) March 2 – Wednesday –Florence Hang out in Venice - Catch 2 hr. Train to Florence March 3 – Thursday - Florence Accademia, Uffizi Gallery, café Giubbe Rosse March 4 – Friday - Rome Train to Rome – 1 ½ hr. ride - Morning: Caesar shuffle – Colosseum to the Forum, then over Capitol Hill (Santa Maria, San Clemente & Victor Emmanuel Monument) to the Pantheon - Afternoon: Stroll the Piazza del Popolo to the Spanish Steps (self-guided Dolce Vita Stroll) March 5 – Saturday - Rome Vatican City – St. Peter's Basillica - Trevi Fountain and Spanish Steps (self-guided Night Walk Across Rome) March 6 – Sunday - Rome Porta Portese flea market - National Museum - Santa Maria della Vitorria, Angeli & Maggorie March 7 – Monday – Cinque Terre - Manarola Catch train to Pisa 8 a.m. - Catch train to Riomaggiore @ 1:30 p.m.- Tour Riomaggiore and Hike to Manarola March 8 – Tuesday – Cinque Terre Hike the other 4 towns March 9 – Wednesday - Milan
Catch train to Milan – 6:55 a.m. – 10 a.m. - Hang for the day in Milan - Catch night train or plane to Barcelona

and more.... March 10 – Thursday - Barcelona Barri Gotic - Ramblas, Catedral, Chocolate Museum & Santa Maria del Mar - Picnic in Citadel Park March 11 – Friday - Barcelona Eixample & Gaudi Sights (Casa Mila, Sagrada Familia, Palau Guell & Parc Guell)- City History Museum March 12 – Saturday - Barcelona Montjuic - walk around - Olympic Stadium - Magic fountains March 13 – Sunday - Madrid Catch train to Madrid - Discover Madrid March 14 – Monday - Madrid Fill in March 15 – Tuesday - Toledo Take bus to Toledo - Catedral - self guided tour - Santa Cruz museum - Make way to Santo Tome and catch bus back March 16 – Wednesday - Madrid Fill in March 17 – Thursday
Leave Madrid @ 12:10 p.m.

as to the madrid question. when i was booking, it was much more expensive to do 3 cities. unfortunately it isn't the case right now but it would be much more expensive to cancel my ticket and then get another one as i would have nearly $300 in fees. i am young. i did want to do a survey of europe. i don't have a ton of money and don't know if/when i will get the chance to do something like this again. so i wanted to see as much as i could. thanks so much for your thoughts!

A couple of thoughts. One, overall, you're changing locations far too frequently. This quickly gets very tiring, and you loose a lot of sight-seeing time in transit. Especially because you will travel in the winter, daylight hours are much shorter than you are accustomed to in OK. Two, the weather in Germany in February will likely scuttle your outdoor plans. For example, two weekends ago I stopped by Neuschwanstein to have a look at it in the snow. Except for the main path up to the castle, all other trails were snowed under. Access to the Marienbrücke was completely blocked (all that hiking uphill through deep snow for nothing!). Three, I think you're pigeon-holing your time too closely. You haven't given yourself that much time for exploration of things you discover en route.

Please pay attention to what Tom and Ken are saying. They are giving excellent advice. Your itinerary reads like you read RS' Best of Europe, a good thing to do, and then more or less took his itinerary and added Spain. But the time of year makes a HUGE difference. You need to cut back on the outdoor stuff such as the Rhine and Cinque Terre, and add in more urban dayssuch as London, Vienna, Berlin, or Amsterdam. Yes, changing your ticket to an "open jaw" in which you fly into Paris/home from madrid might cost $300, but how much will the night train Madrid to paris cost you? And if you are thinking about sitting up in a train seat all night AFTER a night on the jet, with jet lag added in....well, you'll regret it, young or not. (and I am not sure there are seats on the Elipsos night trains..you may have to buy at least a couchette berth) Being young is even more reason to assume you will be back and to slow down.

Kimberly You have clearly thought this out, and you have also had really good advice. Just one other thing to check out - what's open when. I'll let you do the homework because its your trip. You are travelling in the middle of the winter and many things will be closed - the Night Watchman mentioned above is one. Also virtually all cities you are going to have a closed day for the major attractions. Have you checked that each thing you want to do will be open on the day you want to do it? A further comment on the weather - you might be more flexible with your outdoors days. If its sleeting for your walk on Capitoline Hill (I know RS calls it Capitol Hill but that's really not its name when you are asking for directions) you might want to wait until the weather improves, etc. Sounds like some trip - have you got somebody to scoop you off the plane when you get back to OKC? There may only be a jibbering shell of your former self - but I hope you come through it like a trooper...

Go from Paris directly to Bacharach (there's a TGV to Kaiserlautern), then from Bacharach to Rothenburg with a possible stop in Stuttgart. That seems to make more sense if you look at a map. Do a better job of figuring travel time. These towns are not next to each other. I'd cut the places in half (at least) and spend more time in each one.

Yes, if you cannot change your ticket, absolutely look into taking a cheap flight. RS lists several discount airlines on this website, but start with Easyjet. Even if you flew Easyjet from Madrid to London, spent a few days there, and then took the train to Paris, I think you would be far far more rested than your original plan. Night trains seem convenient, but are often more expensive than discount flights, and are for many people a long and sleepless night. I love trains, but I cannot sleep on them. Period.
Since you seem open to suggestions, and since at worst only your arrival and departure are fixed (arr madrid Feb 16, depart madrid March 17), think about adding several days at the beginning to Madrid, when you can use the rest to get over jet lag, and cut the Madrid stuff from the end. It is only a 2 hour train ride from Barcelona to Madrid, and you could do that on the day of your flight home. Then in the rest, rework to add city time and cut outdoors time. Good luck!

Madrid is a good city to spend a few days and shake off the jet lag. Flying to Paris is a really good idea. Three budget airlines fly to Paris: Easy Jet, Vueling and Ryan Air (first two fly to CDG, Ryan Air to Beauvais, an hour bus ride to Paris).

I think you might want to have a few Plan B's in place in case of bad weather. Biking along the Rhine in Feb. will probably not be the best idea. I know I laughed when I read that. The weather here can be horribly cold, snowy, windy and freezing. The poster who suggested a few light snow flurries might happen, doesn't live here and so really has no idea of how bad the weather can be in this area. Having a picnic lunch in Bavaria in Feb. may also need to be changed. Consider doing a few bike tours or walking tours in the cities you are visiting. Paris and Munich both offer these at a lower price than a bus tour and you will get so much more out of them than some recording. Do them your first day in the city.

Kimberly, overall, I agree w/ the posts above that this IS a very ambitious itinerary. You DO have a pretty long time for the trip, but it does seem like you are moving around A LOT, rather than getting to really know/enjoy/savor/immerse yourself w/ the locals a little, etc. I TOTALLY "get" feeling like you are young, it's your 1st trip to Europe, so you want to cram a LOT in (!), etc., BUT as Rick always advocates-DON"T try to do TOO much in 1 trip. If you do, it ends up being more about "checking countries/cities off of a list" vs. really getting to know each place. 1 of his mottos is, "Assume you WILL return!" A tip that may help-eliminate some of the potential redundancies and leave those for other, future trips. Re: Germany, specifically-I would suggest you consider eliminating Stuttgart. I liked Stuttgart a lot, but when I was there, my trip was only Germany (I was going all around the country). As much as I enjoyed it, I would say that for the 1st time traveler to Germany (w/ somewhat limited time to spend in the country), Stuttgart can prob be saved for future trips. Remember- Assume you will return (EVEN if that may be YEARS from now!). Enjoy the planning process (a big part of the fun!) & have a blast on your trip.