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itienary 3 week trip to Europe

I am planning a Europe trip in August! I would like to know if this plan seems doable before I start booking! :)

day 1 arrive at London. Get used to jet lag. Watch a show.
day 2 Buckingham Palace, Parliament, London Eye. Baker Street.
day 3 A walk tour. British museum. Warner Bros studio tour.
day 4 Arrive in Paris. shop at mache au puces st ouen de clingnancourt
day 5 Palace of Versailles. watch an opera.
day 6. Louvre. Seine river. o chateau wine tasting. Notre Dame.
day 7. day trip to chateau de Chambord.
day 8. catacombs. shopping. take a sleeper train to Bacharach, Germany
day 9. tour Bacharach.
day 10. Rhine river tour to rudesheime. look around the wine festival. boat to Koblenz. take a sleeper train to Munich.
day 11. Munich
day 12. arrive at Lucerne, Switzerland. Take a gondola to Mt Pilatus. look around. to to engelberg.
day 13. take gondola to Mt Titlis. Whey bath if possible. Go to the show cheese factory.
day 14. arrive at Milan, Italy. La Scala. look around.
day 15. arrive at Verona. Romeo and Juliet. roman amphitheaters.
day 16. arrive in Venice. Traghetto. St Mark's Basilica.
day 17. look around Venice.
day 18. arrive in Florence. Basilica of Santa Maria Novella
day 19. Uffizi museum and galleria dell' Academia.
day 20/21
day 22. home

I left day 20/21 just in case some parts seem too rushed or someone gives a good suggestion.

I am less interested in going from point to point looking at historical landmarks but more in art/culture. My sister and I are not exactly the most fit people so I don't want it to be so much running around/walking each day... Is this a realistic plan? Did I miss anything out? Which parts seem more relaxed and which parts seem harder to do?

Thank you!!!

Posted by
2539 posts

Way too hurried days 9-13.

You have confused Munich with Berlin.

Plug train times into the itinerary to see how much time the rides take.

Posted by
14 posts

i fixed the munich/berlin issue. I've tried to even out day 9-13. Does this seem less rushed?

day 9. tour Bacharach.
day 10. Rhine river tour to rudesheime. look around the wine festival.
day 11. rhine river tours. boat to Koblenz. take a sleeper train to Munich.
day 12. Munich
day 13. arrive at Lucerne, Switzerland. Take a gondola to Mt Pilatus. look around.
day 14. go to engelberg. take gondola to Mt Titlis.
day 15. Whey bath if possible. Go to the show cheese factory.
day 16. arrive at Milan, Italy. La Scala. look around.
day 17. arrive at Verona. Romeo and Juliet. roman amphitheaters.
day 18. arrive in Venice. Traghetto. St Mark's Basilica.
day 19. look around Venice.
day 20. arrive in Florence. Basilica of Santa Maria Novella
day 21. Uffizi museum and galleria dell' Academia.
day 22. home

Posted by
3398 posts

Seeing that August is only 10 days away you had better start booking NOW!
I think that days 3 and 6 are too packed. The Louvre, the Seine, and Notre Dame are possible but what chateau are you going to for wine tasting? I don't know of any in that area of the city. Your concerns about walking make me question doing a walking tour, going through the British Museum + taking the Warner Bros tour all in the same day. All of these are nothing but walking!
Sleeper trains are a nice idea but not comfortable or restful. Some people think they are fine but, for me, they are miserable. Since you haven't booked anything yet you will most likely be stuck with shared compartments with two or four other people. Really check your train times...some of these overnights you are talking about are not really overnights...the travel time from Munich to Lucerne is only 5 hours or so which really isn't long enough for an overnight. Paris to Bacharach is about 11 hours but usually requires at least two train changes making sleeping an unrealistic option.
Your trip is very rushed but doable. Some people enjoy traveling like this but with your concerns about running around and walking I would maybe cut out a couple of your cities where you have only budgeted a day and add days to others. For example, I would cut Milan and spend more time in Verona, Florence or Venice.
I encourage you to get a pad of paper or an Excel spreadsheet - whatever your style is - and do a detailed plan for each day, realistic times for seeing everything you want to see, and travel time between sights and destinations. That will give you a better sense of how to pace your trip.

Posted by
5697 posts

Couple of questions/comments:
Day 1 -- good chance that you will sleep through at least part of any show you book. Will it be worth the $$ ?
Day 5 - same comment about opera after a full day at Versailles.
Day 12 - what do you plan to do/see in Munich that makes a one-day stop worthwhile ??

What is your backup plan if some of the overnight trains are fully booked already ? FYI, at 5'4" tall I found a couchette comfy, but my taller husband couldn't stretch out and didn't sleep.

Posted by
502 posts

What I see missing is time to relax and enjoy your vacation. Also, no time to really observe the people and learn about them :-(

Sightseeing is great and all, but I like to make time for the markets, the parks, cafés...observe the locals and even get an opportunity to chat with them.

To each his own, but it's seems like a marathon.

Posted by
3635 posts

In general, I agree with those who say you've got too many places with not enough time in some of the important ones. I once took a sleeper train. Horrible! Never again.
On Verona: Juliet's house is the only sight associated with Romeo and Juliet, who are fictional characters. The house, therefore is a quintessential tourist trap. She couldn't have lived there, if she didn't exist . If that and the amphitheater are your only interests, I advise you to scrap Verona and go to Padova for a day, if you can get reservations for the Scrovegni Chapel. Or take a day for the islands of the Venetian lagoon.
Milan: Omit this destination. Add that day to London, Venice or Florence.
Munich: Agree with the poster who suggested omitting this stop. I'd add that day and the unscheduled ones to London. There is so much to do and see there, including some possible day trips, that in a week you'll barely scratch the surface.

Posted by
14 posts

thank you so much for your replies! I am making adjustments to my plans now!
I forgot to put the Neuschwanstein Castle for Germany so I think I will be staying at Munich for 2 days instead... and cut out Verona for that time. The reason I was considering Milan was because of La Scala because I have been interested in Opera these days... Do you think that palais garnier at France is very similar to it or would it be better to do both places?

Also, I think I will be going to Versailles, Buckingham, Neuschwanstein, Nymphenburg Palace and Residenz. I might looks at one more castle. Can anyone comment which one of mont saint-michel, chateau de chambord or windsor castle in England would be best or if I should cut out one of the palaces above?

Thank you!!!

Posted by
3635 posts

A couple more things strike me. You've mentioned opera houses, but have you checked to see if anything is on in August? If so, can you get tickets? You've also listed a number of castles/palaces. You may find yourself tiring pretty quickly of fancy rooms filled with ornate furnishings. Most of the places on your itinerary have so much more to offer. BTW, in that vein, you have just 2.5 days in London. Why spend any of it to see Baker St.? I suggest you consult some guidebooks and/or websites. Be especially careful to note closed times. You have planned very short times in many of your destinations. You don't want to arrive and discover that places are closed on your only day in town. As someone else has said, your trip is very soon. Get going on reservations, not just lodgings, but also any attraction that offers them; e.g., the Uffizi.

Posted by
3398 posts

It's too bad you're cutting out Verona. As an opera lover myself, some of the best opera I've see anywhere is performed in the ancient Roman amphitheater during the summer months.
Going by geography, I would see either Windsor Castle or Chambord...MSM is quite a ways out of your way and your time in France is so very limited already. Both of these castles can be easily seen in 1/2 day if you don't linger. That said, I would choose Chenonceau over Chambord any day. Chambord is massive and impressive but virtually empty except for a couple of rooms. Chenonceau is still lived in and much more beautiful and indicative of chateau life.
Out of curiosity I went to Baker Street not long ago. 221B has been renovated to represent the home of the fictional character. There is a gift shop on the ground floor. You can wait in line to tour Sherlock's fake apartment on the upper floors led by a fake Mrs. Hudson. The line was literally a 3-hour wait when I went...I bought a deerstalker for my son and left.

Posted by
14 posts

After discussion with my sister, I took out some places, and added others. I cut Milan (and left a day for Verona in case I decided to go.) I've checked the train times in detail and decided they are doable (although difficult and expensive because I'm booking late T.T). I just have to book the train tickets now. I also realized since I arrive in London at 10AM, and the price tickets for flights seem better on the day after I planned to return home, I earned 2 days!

day 1 arrive at London (10AM). Get used to jet lag. Tower of London (i think its better
not to sleep too early to set my sleep pattern)
day 2 Westminster Abbey, Buckingham Palace, London Eye
day 3 Baker street. Walk tour.
day 4 half day tour to Windsor Castle. musical
day 5 Arrive in Paris. shop at mache au puces st ouen de clingnancourt
day 6. Palace of Versailles. look around Palais Garnier
day 7. Louvre. Seine river. o chateau wine tasting (it is right near the area). Notre Dame.
day 8. day trip to chateau de Chambord.
day 9. catacombs. shopping. take a sleeper train to Bacharach, Germany
day 10. tour Bacharach.
day 11. Rhine river tour to rudesheime. look around the wine festival.
day 12. rhine river tours. boat to Koblenz. take a sleeper train to Munich.
day 13. Munich- residenz and Nymphenburg Palace.
day 14. munich concentration camp. Beer garden
day 15. day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle
day 16. arrive at Lucerne, Switzerland. Take a gondola to Mt Pilatus. look around.
day 17. go to engelberg. take gondola to Mt Titlis. Go to the show cheese factory. Whey bath if possible.
day 18. switzerland
day 19. arrive in Venice. Traghetto. St Mark's Basilica.
day 20. more Venice. maybe Verona.

day 21. arrive in Florence. Basilica of Santa Maria Novella
day 22. Uffizi museum and galleria dell' Academia.
day 23. more Florence.
day 24. Home

We are taking sleeper trains to save time. We are tiny (5 feet) and can sleep through any noise...
I think it would be alright. Is there a different reason than small bed/noise I should worry about?

Posted by
502 posts

Have you been to Europe? I don't know your ages, but you all are going to be very busy. Enjoy.

Posted by
1994 posts

Have a wonderful trip! A few thoughts:

I'd suggest booking reservations at high demand attractions now – for example, Uffizi and Academia. The Uffizi in particular is often booked far in advance. In Paris, get a Museum Pass to avoid the lines at the Louvre. Also, since you have little wiggle room in your schedule, check carefully which days museum and other attractions are closed.

One other thing occurs to me – you have plans to attend operas at major houses. Generally the seasons don't start until the fall (except Verona). Have you confirmed that they are performing on the days that you'll be there? And if they are performing, those are tickets you also need to get as soon as possible; they generally sell out long before the performance date.

Posted by
12040 posts

Without even looking it up, I'm about 99% certain there is no sleeper train between Paris and Bacharach.

OK, I did look it up, and yes, if you want to travel between Paris and Bacharach at night, you would need to take a series of trains with layovers of several hours at a time in the middle of the night. You won't get ANY rest, unless you can sleep on a bench in a trainstation.

Likewise, no sleeper trains between Koblenz (or any of the other rail hubs near the Mittelrhein) and Munich. Just regular trains that make frequent stops all night.

It's going to take longer to go between Munich and Luzern than you're probably thinking.

''We are taking sleeper trains to save time. We are tiny (5 feet) and can sleep through any noise...
I think it would be alright. Is there a different reason than small bed/noise I should worry about?''
It's not just the noise, and the size of the beds are usually adequate for most people. Here's an experiment. In the comfort of your own home, have someone make random loud noises all night. Have them open and close doors at irregular intervals. Every few minutes, have your bed shaken. And have bright lights shine into your windows at from time to time. If you can get a good night's sleep in those conditions, then night trains shouldn't be a problem. Most of us, though, have managed barely any sleep at all, and arrived at our next destination too exhausted to do much besides take a nap... thus, killing the whole point of using a night train in the first place. I would NOT plan multiple night trains unless you know from experience that you can sleep on them. Maybe try one on this trip just to see if it works for you.

Sorry to be blunt, your overall plan just isn't realistic.

Posted by
14767 posts

Hi,

La Scala opera house....excellent reason for going to Milan. That would be my reason too.

Posted by
16895 posts

If you order a pass a Eurail Select pass as mentioned in an earlier thread, then be sure to reserve your seat or sleeper from Paris to the first connection point in Germany (such as Stuttgart) at the same time, to be sure that it's available. You could start with the overnight train to Stuttgart or Munich and continue to make connections the next day, all using one rail pass travel day. You'll also need seat reservations for faster trains within Italy, but can make those locally on shorter notice, for about €10 each.

Posted by
2393 posts

I hate to be blunt but yes there is:

Koblenz Hbf Fr, 22.08.14 dep 00:40 6:30 0 CNL from 105,00 EUR (incl. Res.)
München Hbf Fr, 22.08.14 arr 07:10

There are NO changes but there are stops.

The drawback is it does at leave until 20 of 1 in the morning.

For the Paris - Bacharach there is no good sleeper train - they all change in Stuttgart at 4 am! there was at one time because we have been on it but no more. Stay in Paris and take a fast train in the morning.