Italy Itinerary Questions

Tiffany:
Congratulations! Aren't you lucky to be able to have such a great honeymoon trip! First, I hope you will read Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door," and then move on to specific country books for those you decide to visit. Sounds like Italy, France and Germany. This research will help you formulate your itinerary and also come to grips with the art of European travel: where to arrrive, when to use trains versus busses, sights, budget, safety, etc. For starters, try to fly open jaw, i.e., into Rome and out of Paris, traveling through Italy and Germany between point of entry and point of departure. While you can "do" Rome in 3 days, given you have 5 weeks, don't limit yourself until you have done some more research. What do you want to see and experience in Rome or any other city? Wherever you start, you'll want extra time just to relax after the wedding and after that long overseas trip. Remember too, that everytime you change locations, you lose at least 1/2 a day to packing, check-out, travel, check-in, and unpacking. Slow down and savor the trip. Also, search the previous posts on "To the West" and "To the Boot" in the Helpline for ideas. Click on the link "Search the Helpline Archives" for instructions. I think a lot of people miss out on all the great advice just given over the past few days or weeks. You'll find some inspiration in others' questions and the helpful answers. In fact, there have been several honeymoon plans discussed over the past week. Come back and ask some specific questions as they occur to you during your reading.

I would think Venice is a stop for several days for a long honeymoon. You should thumb through some books on Italy. I always enjoy lavishly illustrated ones to give me an idea of what there is to see. Starting in Rome and working your way north would be a good idea, you could take a train to Paris or Germany from Venice I would think. Happy planning!

A farmhouse outside of Parma? If you're in to cheese and ham, maybe, but you could find better rural stays in Tuscany or Umbria. You'll be there in the fall, possibly during grape harvest. I'd want to be somewhere in the vineyards.

Tiffany, First of all, congratulations! Laurel covered many of the points I was going to mention. However, I have a few additional comments..... Given the time of year that you'll be travelling, you might consider starting in Paris and ending in Rome. This will hopefully allow you to follow the warmer weather as your trip progresses. I'd suggest a route of Paris - Germany - Rome (where are you planning to visit in Germany?). Whether to do "do Rome" (or any other city) in three days will depend on what you're interested in seeing. As mentioned previously, it would be a really good idea to have a look at the respective country Guidebooks to get some idea on what sights interest you. As you have lots of time to work with, I'd suggest at least five days in Rome. If you decide to use open jaw flights, you'll fly into Paris / CDG and depart from Rome / FCO. One thing to consider in staying in a "farmhouse" in Tuscany at that time of year, is that the weather may be miserable so you could be stuck inside much of the time, with nothing to do in the evenings. OTOH, staying in town would provide a good selection of restaurants and and a greater variety of activities (I did consider the occasion in making these comments). Whether the farmhouse would be "a good place to stay" is difficult to say - check Trip Advisor for comments. Good luck with your planning!

One thing to note is that Parma, while fantastic, is not in tuscany. Well worth a day or two stop, however! In 2009 I spent 8 days in a farmhouse outside San Gimignano at the end of October. It was so quiet, we had the whole property to ourselves. it was a great change of pace. up in the hills it got very cold at night but was otherwise ok, but of course rain could be a factor for you. In November, it is the start of the olive harvest. If you stayed at a farmhouse that grows olives nearer the end of your trip, you might have the amazing experience of participating and experiencing that. As others have said, I think 3 days is really pushing it for rome. one of my closest friends just came back from 3 nights in rome and while she loved it and saw a lot, she really missed an awful lot too. I would not miss Florence or Venice. You can really adequately see "the big three" in 2 weeks or so. If you wanted to include a few days at a farmhouse in between, you could take a day off the others and still have plenty of time in your 5-6 weeks to see Paris and parts of Germany. Just my take. Congrats and have a fantastic time!!

Given the time of year that you'll be visiting, you might consider going to the warmest place first (Rome, or if you plan on travelling further south), then moving north to end up in the place with the coolest weather. 3 days (how many nights?) for Rome would be very short for me, especially with the length of time that you have. But it really depends on what you enjoy doing or seeing. As already mentioned, Parma is not in Tuscany. However, there is a lot to do and see that's near Parma, so if you want to explore that area, then the farmhouse may be a good choice for you (especially if you like food!). One consideration, in addition to those already mentioned re weather, is that the laws re drinking and driving are quite strict in Europe. If you plan to eat at restaurants at least some of the time while at a farmhouse, keep in mind that someone will need to watch alcohol consumption for the drive home afterward. In terms of deciding what other places you want to do and see, go to your local library and check out any books on your possible destinations. Eyewitness Guides can be good for this initial research, because their books have a lot of pictures (I don't take them on trips, because they're so heavy).

Oops! I meant that you should start with your coolest-weather place first, then work your way south so you're in Rome during the coolest part of your trip!

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and wedding. It does sound like a wonderful honeymoon trip. I do agree with the others, since you are going in Mid Oct and to late Nov, it will continue to be getting cold and damp, depending on where you are, so I would start in Paris, then Germany and then Italy. I loved Paris and I was there for only 3 days, after arriving from Brugges, Belgium and before that Amsterdam. I did get to see the Arch D'Triumph, one small section of the Louvre, (mostly Rennaisance and the Mona Lisa), the Orsay Museum, the Rue Clar area, The Avenue des Champs-Élysées, Notre Dame Cathedral, Sacre Coeur and of course, the Eiffel Tower. This was a lot to do in 3 days, but I did get to see the highlights that I wanted to see. In Germany, I spent some time on the Rhine,(3-4 days) and stayed in St Goar, and took day trips to Koblenz, Bacharach, Brabauch, Boppard, Mainz, Rudesheim and rode on the Koln Dusseldorfer ships. This was the fun and relaxing time. If you do decide to go to Germany you might want to limit it to a certain area that you might want to base yourself and then take day trips. In Italy, I spent most of my time in Tuscany, based in Arezzo, and took day trips to Florence, Cortona, Asissi, Lucca, and Pisa. I did also make a trip to Rome for a couple of days, and to Venice for a day, but stayed in Verona for 2 days. I loved all these places. There are so many places to see in Tuscany, or in Italy for that matter. But since you are limited, I would try to do Rome, Florence and Venice, the big 3. Possibilly 4-5 days, in Rome, 3-4 days in Florence and 2 days in Venice. This all depends on what you want to do and how long you want to stay. Whatever you do, look at some books on the countries and areas that you want to see, or also Rick Steve's books and guides, plus you can also look on the internet under tripadvisor. Have a wonderful time and a great honeymoon.

Congratulations. We are celebrating our 25th in Europe this fall and wanted to spend the second week renting a villa in Tuscany. After searching VRBO we found a reasonably priced villa meeting our criteria: walking distance to a small town/village for morning coffee and maybe dinner, a private house not an apartment, and centrally located (within 1 to 1 1/2 hours of Siena, Florence, and many other hill towns.) We found a villa outside Cortona for $800 for the week with pool, and views of countryside. After a week of packing and unpacking in hotels, we like the idea of staying put for a week with more "living space" than a hotel room. With VRBO, you email the owners directly and can ask questions that may not be mentioned on the web site.

A huge thank you to all of the responses! This really helps in our planning! My fiance and I found a place right outside Parma for about $300 Euro's for the week... Is that worth it? We will have a rental car... Or is worth us getting closer to the Tuscany region and paying more? Thanks!

Emilia-Romagna is beautiful and the food is probably hard to match throughout the world but it's not that close to Tuscany, especially not the part that most people consider is "typical" tuscany (aka south of Florence). So, if your goal is to see Tuscany, I would look for somewhere centrally located in Tuscany. But yes, you will probably pay more. Of course, there is nothing wrong with doing something less touristy and seeing Emilia-Romagna instead. I hardly think you would be missing out on anything and you can always return to Tuscany :)

" My fiance and I found a place right outside Parma for about $300 Euro's for the week... Is that worth it?" Proceed with a little caution. This seems WAY cheap. Have you seen any photos or gotten any positive feedback?

Yes, it had a review on it...and it was a great review. It's through a sight called Airbnb. anyone use that sight before?

It doesn't sound alarmingly cheap. My friend and I stayed in a lovely agriturismo outside San gimignano (more expensive for lodging than Parma area to be sure!) for not much more than that for 8 nights, for a whole one-bedroom flat incl. 2 beds, kitchen, bath, etc. In Parma in October 2009, in the middle of the city, I stayed in a one-bedroom+loft flat with mini kitchen for 60 euros. It was fantastic. That's the off-season and the prices are sometimes half as much. If the reviews are good I wouldn't worry about it, though it might be bare-bones (our Tuscan agriturismo was, but I didnt need a tv or phone or anything!). Have you tried communicating directly with the proprietors? I always find that I get either a good or bad vibe with my communications from the owners of small establishments in Italy. My gut instinct on it hasn't led me astray yet. Every place I've had a good communication experience has turned out great.

it had a review on it. You are after several reviews. One could be done by a friend....

Start with Paris - very romantic, and end in Italy, where November going to be warmer and sunnier than France or Germany. I think Venice is a very romantic city, and Verona is delightful too.

My Wife and I honeymooned in Italy 2 years ago and loved it so much we went back 6 months later and are planning another trip there around the same time as yours. You will love it. A few things: I would not suggest Rome first. Rome is amazing and beautiful but it is amazingly intense and busy and very Italian. I think the people who say they don't like Rome do it first and get overwhelmed. There was a suggestion to start in the north (Paris/Germany) and work south, I would second this to be a great idea. Ending in Rome is how we finished both our trips. You have good access to airports and finish in a great romantic city. If you want to do Tuscany then do Tuscany. Parma is great but Tuscany is worth 5 days at the least and there are lots of B & B's and agrotourismos available. You will need a car in Tuscany to get the most out of it. The Rick books on Italy have some great options and its where we found ours.
Plan a night (at least 1) in Siena and Florence too. Also, do try and see Venice and the Cinque Terre if possible. It is your honeymoon and these places will be the memories you always wanted. Good Luck

SO, everyone is saying to start in Paris....
I hear that Italy is great in October.... London - Italy or Rome - London Which is the best... We are going to be gone October 19th-November 22nd Thanks!

North to south. I've seen ice and snow in both England and France during October.

Rome for a week. Tuscany for 4-5 days to wind down. Florence for 4-6 days. Venice perhaps..... Nice and Cannes....another week. Paris for a week. Wave to Germany as you pass by. I have friends who rent out a little farm house in Tuscany, near Siena. Built 400 years ago, wonderful restaurant 1/2 mile down the road. Be careful, though. In recent history newlyweds have conceived at least one child there. PM me if you want to contact them. We'll be there for 5 days in June, our second trip. Ciao!

I agree with those who say starting north and heading south makes sense, but you might want to look at annual weather averages to get a better idea. You will probably get better recommendations if you explain a bit more about what you are looking for in your vacation. Do you want just romantic vistas? Do you want to immerse yourself in the local flavor? Do you love history and want to be able to check out ruins and visit museums? Do you want some nightlife? Do you want plenty of outdoor activities hiking, biking, etc? I have to disagree with the post recommending that you skip Germany . . . I don't think you should drop your plans for going there. We were there last year in the fall, and though we had some rain, we had lots of great weather too, and it is a beautiful country. I think you will enjoy Rome a lot more if you give it a few more days . . . particularly if you are doing it at the end of the trip when you'll have less energy. Part of the joy of traveling is allowing yourself time to sit at that cafe on the piazza and watch the world go by. By the way, Ostia Antica is a simple day-trip from Rome (a couple of bucks for a half-hour train ride). Somewhat like Pompeii, but more of a working class city. Despite its close proximity to Rome, you will not find the crowds here that you see elsewhere. You can look it up on the internet and see if the images catch your interest. Hope you have a fantastic honeymoon!

Tiffany, To answer the question in your first sentence, the consensus is almost unanimous that you should start in the north and work south, given the time of year you'll be travelling. It would help to know specifically which cities you're planning on visiting, especially in Germany/Switzerland and Italy? I'm assuming that you'll spend one week in London and one week in Paris, which may include a day trip or two? I normally find it difficult to choose a Railpass until I have a more-or-less final list of cities worked out. One point to mention regarding Railpasses is that these DO NOT include the reservation fees which are compulsory on some trains, so be sure to allow some room in your budget for those. DON'T be caught without a valid reservation, especially in Italy, as you'll be fined on the spot and it won't be cheap! As someone else mentioned you may encounter snow in some of the mountainous areas, especially in Switzerland. I've been in Gimmelwald in mid-October and on that occasion the weather was great, although the evenings were quite "chilly" and it was obvious that winter was on the way. You could (for example) balance your time between the Berner-Oberland and one of the cities. Lucerne is a beautiful city, and would be a great choice (IMHO). In choosing cities in Germany, focusing on Bavaria and the south (Munich) would be a better "fit" for your travel route than northern Germany. The trip from Munich to Italy is relatively easy (perhaps Verona to pay a visit to the fictitious Romeo & Juliet garden?). That a good "mid-way" point to keep the travel times reasonably short. Cheers!

OK! So, what we are gathering from everyone's responses is that we should fly into London first and travel south from there..(Looking to book our flights pretty soon) Also, going to book our Eurail pass soon..deciding what pass to buy is tricky, but I think we are going to do 7 days in 2 months? Thoughts? Here is some more of what we have talked about: London/France (2weeks) Germany/Switz (2 weeks)
Italy (2 weeks) We are not looking to do the typical touristy things (besides in the major cities, such as in London,Rome, Paris). We are really looking to see much of the countryside as possible. Hikes, beautiful scenery and great food! I know that one thing that is a must is at least some time in Tuscany. Any suggestions from there would be great! Thanks again!

Hikes, beautiful scenery and great food! I know that one thing that is a must is at least some time in Tuscany. Any suggestions from there would be great! There is a wonderful guide to hiking, "Walking & Eating in Tuscany and Umbria" that you might enjoy. It's a little old (2004) but they have a very active website with u p d a t e s. Really helped me come up with some beautiful dayhikes and to decide where to stay based on those plans. Our hikes were definitely non-touristy times. On one, we saw no one else for over 90 minutes. Fabulous! Recently picked up "The Independent Walker's Guide to Italy." Haven't actually used it for hiking yet, but will later this year. One of the great places to hike in Italy is supposed to be the "Path of the Gods" above Amalfi and Positano. Can't wait! Also used the book "24 Great Walks in Rome" to plan our touring. I like to walk to, from and among the big sites. Got away from other people quite a bit with this book, including the Aventine, the Aquaduct Park. Rick Steves' books are usually right on for restaurant recommendations, but I have also come to love Fred Plotkin's "Italy for the Gourmet Traveler." Don't let the word "gourmet" throw you; Fred is very down-to-earth about food and offers some inexpensive to moderate ideas all over Italy.

I haven't read all of the responses, but you might want to give further thought to 2 weeks in Germany/Switzerland at that time of year. In Switzerland, you might even be bumping into the beginning of the ski season. And if you're not, restaurants and hotels in the mountains may be shut for the slow season in between summer and the ski seasons. As you mentioned hiking, this would be a factor for you. It will be rather chilly throughout your trip, so keep that in mind for hiking in any of the locations. I also like Fred Plotkin's book, especially if you're into food. He does a great job of describing the regional variations in foods.

Yes! Thanks again for all the help! We are totally ok with hitting some cold weather! And waiting on the railpass until we know our route and specific cities is a great idea! Italy: Rome, Florence, Tuscany Switz: suggestions (we will be traveling through there to get to Germany) Germany: Trier region and a little town called Kyllburg (my fiancé's family is from there) and any other surrounding suggestions... France: Paris and any other surrounding suggestions
England: London and any other surrounding suggestions Again, food, beautiful countryside, hikes, and very ok with cooler/cold weather! ANd even gray and rainy skies do not freak us out.... We are looking to get the most out of our 6 week journey! Thanks!

A planning comment re potentially cold and rainy weather and travelling in rural areas. We visited Europe in late-ish October last year, and intentionally picked only cities (though usually we prefer a combination of cities and rural destinations), because if it's cold and rainy in a city, there's always indoors activities like museums. If you're planning to hike, and it's 40 degrees and raining, hiking is not always the desirable option. You might try to give yourselves some flexibility in case the weather's rainy.

Dear Tiffany: Let me also extend congratulations! We just returned from a group trip to Rome and Tuscany. While in Tuscany we retained Paola Migliorini of Tuscany Tours to take us on a day trip through the Chianti wine country. She easily accommodated a dozen of us, picking us up at our villa and driving us while educating us through San Gimignano, a wine tour of Sant Appiano, lunch in Colognole and a tour of Greve in Chianti. She was lovely in all respects and very reasonably priced. It was one of the highlights of our trip. If you are unsure of what you'd like to see or do, she can help you plan an itinerary for your guided tour that will help you hit highlights but still fit into a day. I had a great time working with her and found her most flexible and helpful. You can find her in the guidebooks or at www.florencetour.com Good luck in travel and on your new journey!
Ciao, Terry