Italy, Austria, Germany help

I lived in Augsburg, Germany from 87-91 and have travelled in Europe extensively, including all the places you mentioned. However, I have little knowledge of what is available on inexpensive flights within Europe.

I can say that you could do all this travel by rail.

From Florence you could go through Innsbruck, then to Vienna, then Salzburg, Munich, Baden-Baden and Basel.

I remember taking a wonderful and scenic train from Augsburg to the Black Forrest by rail (without going through Stuttgart). Also, you may be able to go from Venice, if you like through Slovenia to Vienna. We did it by car, but there may be a rail route as well.

If you need to fly out of Vienna, instead of taking the train, why now just fly into Basel.

You can fly from Vienna to Stuttgart for $44. pp. I want to see that part of Germany especially Baden- Baden. When I search for trains from Florence to Vienna, it is an overnight train and we do not want to do that. When I was doing all the searches it just didn't seem to make sense to not do an Innsbruck-Munich-Salzburg-Vienna route but then I didn't know what to do so I searched for airfare.

i Like the idea of going through Slovenia. When I search it comes up as a bus for part of the way from Venice to Vienna, not sure about that.

I like Slovenia a lot. Ljubljana a very attractive city. But transportation to the neighboring countries isn't especially fast, and you don't have a lot of time. I'd hold off on Slovenia until a later trip and combine it with Croatia.

You can still do these train rides without any particular advance planning, but in this case you have either a pretty long ride to Vienna or a bit of backtracking on the Salzburg-Vienna portion. If considering a rail pass, you'd have to choose which countries you really want to include. A Select Saver Pass for just Austria and Germany would cover most of the trip, starting from $207 per person (for 4 travel days in 2nd class) with the current 20%-off sale (nonrefundable). Adding a 3rd country pushes you into 1st-class pricing, from $311 per person (for 5 travel days in 1st class). Seat reservations are not required in those countries.

There is also one direct flight from Pisa airport to Vienna on Friday afternoons by EuroWings/Eagle Atlantic, but no flexibility to that schedule.

Thanks for the info on the 2 country 4 day pass, that might be the best deal for us. We decided not to fly out of Vienna. We will go from Florence to Innsbruck to Salzburg to Vienna and then a long train to Munich.

"I want to see that part of Germany especially Baden- Baden."

The Black Forest is pretty special. Lots of traditions there, old ways... it's somewhat slower to change than many parts of Germany. And there's some delicious scenery and some fine old-world towns you can visit...

Schiltach
Gengenbach
Villingen
Haslach
Gutach, home of the Vogtsbauernhof open air museum.

But unless you're into spas, gambling and high-end shopping, Baden-Baden, which just isn't very Black Foresty at all, may be a disappointment. It's also a bad travel base if you plan to spend several days exploring the area. Better to stay in Gengenbach and do a day trip to B-B (and the other towns) if you must see B-B.

You can get a KONUS card (free train travel for your outings) if you stay in Gengenbach or most other small towns. It's free from your innkeeper. This is not available in Baden-Baden.

If you decide on a German rail pass, note that Innsbruck (even though it's in Austria) to Munich is covered on some trains. The GRP is also valid to/from Italian destinations (including Venice) but not Florence as I rememberg. Check the GRP pass page at DB for details on the many foreign destinations it now includes.

Thank you Russ for your insight into Baden-Baden. That is definitely not us so we will go to the other towns. We have rented a car for one week in Belfort France and plan to travel in and out of France and Germany. Will that work? Can we easily go from Black Forest to Alsace? I plan on going from Belfort to Buix Switzerland to see my ancestors village and then see Black Forest and Burgundy region.

"Will that work?"
Not sure what country you're from or what sort of visa you're on but aside from some such complication there's nothing I can imagine that would stop you from crossing the French/German border.

Car or not you might want to try the KONUS card - it covers the most scenic train ride in this part of Germany, the Black Forest Railway:

http://www.black-forest-travel.com/places-of-interest/black-forest-railway.html

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Verlaufskarte_Schwarzwaldbahn_(Baden).png

http://www.schwarzwald-tourismus.info/var/stg/storage/images/media/pressebilder/fotos-fuer-redaktionen/schwarzwald-mobil/schwarzwaldbahn-in-hornberg/75298-1-ger-DE/Schwarzwaldbahn-in-Hornberg.jpg

(The train in the photo is one of the double-decker carriages - good views from up top.)

The KONUS card offers certain discounts to local attractions as well (free admission to the Triberg waterfall, I believe.

Hi,

Traveling in the 1970s was indeed in certain ways as you exactly mentioned much easier than now. I know, I did it too. But it's a matter of pros and cons basically.

Russ,

Does the scenic Black Forest train use the same stations as the other trains? I haven't been able to find specific information on where to get tickets.

Thanks